Filling up the lower Dan Tien- How and Why

[BaguaKicksAss]

PS Aeran, you can use the "quote" button on the bottom of each post to quote the person. Or you can use the multiquote one to quote a few different posts (the one YaMu has mastered a couple of pages back).

[SonOfTheGods]

What about transmission?

 

[SonOfTheGods]

Yeah you're right, most magicians (the traditional types, and those who were influenced by them even moreso - wiccans, chaotes, thelemites, etc) don't do much etheric stuff, but it isn't entirely missing from western magic. The Middle Pillar is a staple of Golden Dawn (and offshoots) training, and the energy involved in that is primarily etheric. It's also an essential part of Bardon's IIH (probably because of his heavy Eastern influence) syllabus - where he teaches working with the vital force and condensing the elemental/electric & magnetic fluids down to an etheric/physical level.

 

And I don't really have a martial arts background heh, Less than two years of doing qi gong on and off out of books/videos is about it (other than working up to a blue belt in karate back in primary school). Although I would like to change that.

 

When I started Magick i did the Rose Crux and Middle Pillar for years.

Belial improved on the latter one.

Enochian upgraded it as well.

During those years my Kundalini popped.

Overlapping of Qi Gong as well.

 

I would use the energy from my hexagram area / xiphoid/heart/middle tan tien in Magick.

When my LDT ignited, my Upper Tan Tien soon opened as well.

 

Tyson and Kraig both advocates for using heart chakra energy

 

If I evoke in a mirror, I draw the sigil in the astral using vibrating palm.

Edited January 12, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[SonOfTheGods]

 

 

 

 

The Middle Pillar thing is trickier, I'm far from an expert in Golden Dawn methodology, but I did practice the LBRP and Middle Pillar for a good chunk of last year, and in my experience (and to my surprise, as I wasn't expecting it) the Middle Pillar draws on an energy much denser than the astral light used in the Qabbalistic Cross portion of the LBRP, with properties and a subjective experience very similar to, if not identical to, the vital force in Bardon's work and the qi within the qi gong I've practiced.

 

However, I'm happy to admit that it's possible I did something wrong, or that there was some other variable at work, which caused it to operate with a denser energy than it's supposed to. My understanding from what I've read is that it's supposed to be an etheric energy, but I could have misinterpreted that.

 

the QBL crux is opening your upper torso Kwa and Laogong points

[johndoe2012]

..

Edited January 11, 2015 by johndoe2012

[Horus]

Where to focus concentration exactly?

 

I'm a very specific bunny.

 

I can take myself into a deep trance state within about 3 seconds, so I find the dantien focus quite easy - the concentration and deep trance state aspect that is...(and I sit in full lotus quite comfortably).

 

I keep having the question arise - should i focus on the area 1.3-3 inches below the navel and 1.3-3 inches inside? or should I focus on the actual dantien that I have percieved with internal vision (see below).

 

I've actually seen the dantien when I've popped my core-self into my abdomen - and was in front of the lower dantien. I saw it as a perfectly circular glowing yellow/gold disk.

 

I was enjoying this thread and thought I'd put it out there to ask the question of whether to focus on that disk or just the measured position of where it is.

 

May sound silly to ask - but the question still arises.

 

I've been working with both and seem to get better results just with the idea of where it is - but maybe I'm just not that convinced about directing the breath and concentration on the disk/actual dantien I percieved? or perhaps that intention splits the concentration more than the normal method?

 

I do find that either way - dantien heats up as soon as I start.

 

Does anyone else have that same inner vision? or have any comments to share?

 

Thanks in advance, and thanks for the great thread.

 

 

[SonOfTheGods]

You're a master then, so we should be asking you

I've actually seen the dantien when I've popped my core-self into my abdomen - and was in front of the lower dantien. I saw it as a perfectly circular glowing yellow/gold disk.

[Horus]

You're a master then, so we should be asking you

Thanks Son of the Gods -

 

yes, I am a Master - but that does not mean that I am skilled in the mechanics of MP and dantien cultivation in this life.

 

My previous incarnations stand me well to make rapid progress - but I'm not filled to the brim with chi because my dantiens are overflowing. I still need to do the work to achieve that - hence the interest in the MP system & dantien cultivation in general.

 

I guess I'd equate it to a hydraulic system - all of the ability is there - and when I add massive amounts of chi to upper dantien - the faculties are there. But without the bottom up "fill" (semantics kindly ignored) - it is unstable, maybe unhealthy, and the experiences and ability to repeat them are fleeting.

 

A master just comes with all of the software from last time/s - but I need to increase the operational memory RAM - to get things really cooking.

 

So, yes I'm aware that I am a Master - but I still need to do the work - it just happens exponentially faster. Hence the tendency to be very specific - because I have to (mistakes manifest as fast as good progress for me...

 

Thanks for commenting anyway

[ChiDragon]

Where to focus concentration exactly?

 

I can take myself into a deep trance state within about 3 seconds, so I find the dantien focus quite easy - the concentration and deep trance state aspect that is...(and I sit in full lotus quite comfortably).

 

I keep having the question arise - should i focus on the area 1.3-3 inches below the navel and 1.3-3 inches inside?

 

This is close enough in your mind, as long your breath has reached deep down to the abdomen and have a good deep feeling that it(breath) is there. All this talk about the location of the lower dan tian is only a thought. You can do away with the numbers, just think that your abdomen is the lower dan tian. The LDT is only an imaginary location inside the abdomen.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2014 by ChiDragon

[宁]

 

The LDT is only [...] imaginary [...]

 

 

I would go with that, for most of us.

 

I discovered that if you take 5 minutes a day (after you take the shower seems more motivating) to do a set of 100 cross crunches you will develop a nice set of 6 packs in less than half a year ('course it depends of the size of your belly). Looks a helluva lot better than a LDT too! Plus, if you do it with breath sync, you can pack up some inner pressure that would at least account for health benefits.

 

I would also go with the physical sinking in the LDT as a stimuli for the energetic sinking - you can find many movements in taiji for that.

What you store in seated meditation you'd have to circulate in moving meditation (or at least standing), you'll know why when you do it.

 

IME

[SonOfTheGods]

The LDT is only an imaginary location inside the abdomen.

 

Mo Pai and Charles Luk (no, not "that" book) would DISAGREE with this statement.

 

One step further- the LDT will move over to the right side of the torso after sometime and dedicated practice.

 

Feels like a small lump.

 

Take it for what it's worth

Edited March 25, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[joeblast]

horus....more important to feel where the energy coalesces

 

 

as far as "imaginary location" is concerned - well, if one cant differentiate signal from noise, then its all noise then, innit? practice the fundamentals to discard noise and enhance the signal to noise ratio, then once signal is identified, work with the signal and continue to attenuate the noise.

 

noise+noise=noise

signal+focused-awareness=amplified signal

[Wu Ming Jen]

I love how primordial energy gets a physical location. Its like a chakra opening and closing do spinning wheels open or close?

 

Does the LDT empty and fill, what empties and fills is non physical and this directly influences the physical body. What empties and fills physically is obvious air, food and water.

 

Move and breath from the LDT. just like a baby who is still connected to the primordial, mind has not got in the way.......yet

[Horus]

I love how primordial energy gets a physical location. Its like a chakra opening and closing do spinning wheels open or close?

 

Does the LDT empty and fill, what empties and fills is non physical and this directly influences the physical body. What empties and fills physically is obvious air, food and water.

 

Move and breath from the LDT. just like a baby who is still connected to the primordial, mind has not got in the way.......yet

"I love how primordial energy gets a physical location. Its like a chakra opening and closing do spinning wheels open or close?"

 

By "I love how primordial energy gets a physical location" - do you mean that sacrastically? no issue - just wasn't sure.

 

Beacuse "viewed" from within the abdomen it is 100% not immaginary - and the "primordial" position has a directly locatable "position/or overlap if you will with a/the "physical" position (just on the subtle plane - not the physical one. (hope that makes sense?)

 

Yes, very much like a baby. Ifact, having just started doing this more focused and regular DT breathing - my neurology flashed back to when I was in the womb - i felt my slippery little lips and the suckling no-mind nature.

 

Thanks for sharing - but if you feel that the LDT is imaginary - than it is just a belief you have formed - but, whatever - if the practice still works it does not matter much?

 

For me, if i'm not very specific - i get into situations I don't want to be in very quickly. I tend to get results VERY quickly - so I need to be precise.

[Horus]

Mo Pai and Charles Luk (no, not "that" book) would DISAGREE with this statement.

 

One step further- the LDT will move over to the right side of the torso after sometime and dedicated practice.

 

Feels like a small lump.

 

Take it for what it's worth

I must 100% disagree regarding the imaginary bit too.

 

Having said that - it's a semantic and practical argument - and exactly my point here i guess...

 

Imaginary location is still a good tool to use, right? It is something we imagine when directing yang chi to LDT - but, i'd be more comfortable with the idea of using intent over visualisation/imagination - as intent still brings no mind - while imagination is more active.

 

The LDT is really there and it does fill/empty - but the size is not dependent on the level of fillled/emptied. It can be big and full or small and full.

 

Either way it is real, albeit subtle in nature.

 

It is amazing. I'd equate it to looking directly at the sun on a smoky day. It is the most perfectly circular thing i've ever seen (again, like the sun - but the edges are very clean - and unlike the sun can be looked at directly - so they are very "sharp".

[Horus]

I would go with that, for most of us.

 

I discovered that if you take 5 minutes a day (after you take the shower seems more motivating) to do a set of 100 cross crunches you will develop a nice set of 6 packs in less than half a year ('course it depends of the size of your belly). Looks a helluva lot better than a LDT too! Plus, if you do it with breath sync, you can pack up some inner pressure that would at least account for health benefits.

 

I would also go with the physical sinking in the LDT as a stimuli for the energetic sinking - you can find many movements in taiji for that.

What you store in seated meditation you'd have to circulate in moving meditation (or at least standing), you'll know why when you do it.

 

IME

Are you saying that a grown dantien will give you a buddha belly? (chinese buddha staue with big belly (i mean)) - because i fell that is not right?

 

That idea is symbolic/suggestive I feel.

[SonOfTheGods]

The problem for most practitioners is the obvious one.

Believing it is imaginary will severely limit your potential.

If you think it is not physical, I will guarantee you, you will never experience a physical Tan Tien

[Horus]

 

This is close enough in your mind, as long your breath has reached deep down to the abdomen and have a good deep feeling that it(breath) is there. All this talk about the location of the lower dan tian is only a thought. You can do away with the numbers, just think that your abdomen is the lower dan tian. The LDT is only an imaginary location inside the abdomen.

 

 

I liked this comment - simply because I agree that in practice - forget all of the rationalisation and let the process be. That's where the beauty lives...

However, i've seen the LDT - i've "sat" right infront of it - i've watched it surge and burst forth with chi - I know it is not imaginary.

 

I agree that you can do away with the numbers.

 

Incidently - I feel that the varying numbers may be that the focus allows for the "bottom" of the circumference of dantien. Some people's will be larger/smaller.

 

I actually feel that dantien may be centered at the navel....and the 1.3-3 inches allows for the focus to direct to the lower part of the actual dantien disk/sphere (it was rather more disk like that spherical in my perception - while other objects were more 3D-like.

 

Either way, folks are getting the results from just a deep abdominal focus and accepting the whole abdomen as LDT....

 

I'll do the same process from within myself and report back next time i'm in there.

 

Also worth adding is that it is like a tardis (dr who's telephone booth vehicle) - in that it expands massively - like it should not fit in the space there - but it does. (I was able to remote view a royal family members LDT when I was in there - and theirs was MASSIVE).

[Horus]

The problem for most practitioners is the obvious one.

Believing it is imaginary will severely limit your potential.

If you think it is not physical, I will guarantee you, you will never experience a physical Tan Tien

I like this comment - though I'm not so concrete on there being any real difference between the physical and the subtle - just rates of vibrational frequency. We really don't experience anything physical. You can experience Tan Tien "physically" though right? like when you feel the lump - LDT itself may not be physical - but matter condensing around it may be - isnt that all that physical is anyway?

[ChiDragon]

Either way, folks are getting the results from just a deep abdominal focus and accepting the whole abdomen as LDT....

 

That means it doesn't matter how one thinks but it's free for all.

Edited March 26, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Horus]

That means it doesn't matter how one thinks but it's free for all.

Thanks ChiDragon - what do you mean "free for all"?

[ChiDragon]

Thanks ChiDragon - what do you mean "free for all"?

The folks are getting the results from just a deep abdominal focus.

[Horus]

The folks are getting the results from just a deep abdominal focus.

Ok, thanks Chi Dragon.

[SonOfTheGods]

The folks are getting the results from just a deep abdominal focus.

Define: "Results"

[Horus]

Define: "Results"

Now ya talkin!

 

In this case I used the words "results" to be linked with - folks are able to achieve an increase in yang chi "growing/filling" in LDT by simply considering the whole abdomen as LDT (or by not being too concerned about pinpoint accuracy as to its exact "location".

 

For me, particularly now I have seen LDT, I'm still going to explore (in practice) which is better:

• Focus very specifically on the exact center of the actual LDT that I have seen (glowing disk)
• Allow for it not to "matter" - and allow Yi to drive the breath (yang chi) to reach LDT (ie not be so worried about the precise location of LDT)

For me it's only then a question of which gives more rapid, or more holistic results, or perhaps which results ensures maximum uptake of the available chi with each inhale.