Filling up the lower Dan Tien- How and Why

[opendao]

Animal bodies have energy centers - all of them from what I have directly observed and from what others have observed that can see the outside and inside of auras.

 

My LDT turned on once when I was about 14 years old - if it had not turned on and heated my body up I would very possibly have frozen to death. As it turned out I was in -5 degree weather and steam was coming off my entire body - not to mention I had to ski 3 lifts over to get to the main lodge so the wind chill was easily 30-40 below zero when I was skiing down while I was wearing only a light windbreaker and yet my earlobes were toasty warm as well as my toes and finger tips.

 

I have been working pretty intensely in Qi Gong now for over 3 years with a 6th Generation Shaolin Temple Grand Master Monk (5 classes a week). What I am certain now is my LDT is definitely the very same LDT that turned on and warmed me up all those many years ago. It also activated by itself one other time when I was about 36 during a very emotional breakup with my girlfriend. I was so overcome by emotion that it suddenly turned on and like a furnace my emotions just went through the fire - in my LDT - it was the only way I could process the stream fast enough. It was a huge surprise and an immediate reminder of my prior experience out on the slopes yet for such a different purpose.

 

You've been working in Qi Gong for 3 years, and had an interesting experience when you were young. Many people have similar experiences, and Neidan teaching has answers why and what happens. It's an important experience, but what you describe is not the Dan Tien as it is defined in Neidan.

 

Such things are related to something related to the Dan Tien, but it's not the Dan Tien yet.

 

What you describe as "aura" and "chakras" are post-heaven things, while Dan Tien is pre-heaven and cannot be seen using extra sensitivity developed by Qigong like methods (post-heaven methods).

 

But thanks for sharing your experience. I skipped all your philosophy, it has no relation to the topic, and has a very weak foundation. I prefer to learn about the Dan Tien from teachers who have such Dan Tien, so your statements about adepts and books look a bit funny.

 

Just curious, if you think "it's already all right here - the kingdom of heaven is at hand - be here now - in a flash it can happen", why do you need to learn Qigong from "Grand Master Monk"?

[opendao]

Practice is only for those that are not yet whole...

 

Do you know what is "whole" in Daoism and that there are a lot of practice after that?

 

Some are born whole.

 

examples?

[Horus]

Do you know what is "whole" in Daoism and that there are a lot of practice after that?

 

 

examples?

Yes, I know what "whole" is to Taoists, and I'm also aware that even the celestial immortal still has practices.

 

My point though, and the tone of the OP, was not Taoist specific.

 

Namely that there are some born into the world, and many more to arrive, that are already immortal - and already have well developed Dantiens.

 

Certainly it is rare, but there are those that are born already grounded in the highest of attainments.

 

Examples?

 

Well, I'll put myself forward as an example...

 

I'm not calling myself "whole" right now...but I was when I was born.

 

When I was born I was (just as many were) fully aware. I was aware before conception, I was aware at conception, in the womb, during birth. There is very little I was not aware of.

 

I quizzed my mother about my birth and I knew that the nurse was intoxicated, knew what the doctor was like, what he looked like, his thoughts, intentions. I knew all of it, I could feel it, see, hear and just knew. I was plunged into a sea of collective consciousness, and was mitigating my families emotions, thoughts, words, deeds.

 

I can travel back in time to all of those points and recall what was going on (and can correct my perspective upon it, more importantly).

 

Most people that enter whole don't stay that way. We enter a sea of incorrect perception and meld with it, some arise from it, some cling to it for safety, some are destroyed.

 

So, I consider myself in the "some arise from it" bunch

 

A few years ago, having done zero neigong/neidan/pill cultivation etc I had internal spirit projection experience.

 

I was doing some breathing exercises and incidentally sucked in a big gulp of qi into my UDT.

 

It was extremely painful and took hours for me to gain control of the energy.

 

Within a few hours of intense effort I was able to direct said energy with my intention. I was trying to descend the energy to the LDT, but instead it channeled into the 3rd eye and a clear crystal like astral tube extended out of my mid-brow.

 

The tube extended into my abdomen, and my whole core-self was going with it. I projected my whole awareness into my abdomen, and landed right in-front of a glowing golden disk.

 

I was in there, as awareness (no arms legs or tiny body - just my core-self awareness - which I consider different to inner vision where the center of awareness is still in Niwan.

 

I had heard about and started researching on LDT cultivation Neigong/neidan etc - but had not started practicing.

 

My LDT was a full golden glowing sun like disk. There was primordial vapour in there, dark matter, fires, yin/yang qi dancing, I could see internal channels with qi moving through them.

 

My point here is that I had done no internal alchemy - and the pill was big, and powerful.

 

The dantiens are our innate reservoirs of soul energy stepped down to usable forms for various bodies of various densities.

 

Granted that they change as we cultivate, and that perhaps some people may have imperceptible dantiens prior to doing any cultivation on them.

 

So, there are those that make a religion of what they have learned from those they hold above them. And there are those that shake off all limitation, and sometimes people make religions about what they think they have learned from those people.

 

Either way, the whole process is about reversing the post-natal acquisitions.

 

Simply, some people, being born whole have not acquired as much incorrect perception, have not disposed of their original state.

 

What, you think one can become a master of all of this and not come back here whole from the start?

 

Limit yourself you must?

 

Liberate yourself you may!

[opendao]

So, I consider myself in the "some arise from it" bunch

...

 

I had heard about and started researching on LDT cultivation Neigong/neidan etc - but had not started practicing.

 

My LDT was a full golden glowing sun like disk. There was primordial vapour in there, dark matter, fires, yin/yang qi dancing, I could see internal channels with qi moving through them.

 

My point here is that I had done no internal alchemy - and the pill was big, and powerful.

 

It's just your belief. Try to find how Dan Tien is really defined in Neidan, what is the result of such achievement, what is a "pill" etc. Maybe then you will change your mind. So far it's just an experience very far from real changes... Don't get me wrong, your experience can happen, but it has no relation to results of Neidan practice. Same with all your other conclusions made so quick: it's your interpretation of Neidan terms based on your experience and modern popular Qigong books.

 

The dantiens are our innate reservoirs of soul energy stepped down to usable forms for various bodies of various densities.

 

This is a new-age approach, not Neidan.

 

Granted that they change as we cultivate, and that perhaps some people may have imperceptible dantiens prior to doing any cultivation on them.

 

No, it's impossible. Technically.

 

What, you think one can become a master of all of this and not come back here whole from the start?

 

Limit yourself you must?

 

Liberate yourself you may!

 

The tradition says that the body itself is the limit, even if a master needs to return. Sure such practice won't be from the start, but the "whole" won't be there, as for any other newborn child. Again, it's technically impossible because of the body.

 

So we return to the same statement made by an ancient alchemist: "Lay people have no dan tien". Because the real Dan Tien is a result of a very specific work of returning Yuan Jing and preparing it for the next stage. Everything else is a Qigong experience of a different kind.

[Blackfinger]

Opendao

 

From an impartial reader of this thread, I get the impression that you alone know The Truth, and everyone else is utterly wrong.

 

I prostrate myself before your superior wisdom.... how refreshing to see someone so completely assured/deluded by their own correctness.

[joeblast]

some people like to take advantages of some differing aspects of verbiage and say as little as possible to either make themselves appear more knowledgeable or to minimize the experiences of those conversed with.

 

"what, oh, that DT...well, that's not the DT as I'm talking about it, that's called something else and I dont care if you mix it with the terminology I'm using, I'm just going to say you're incorrect and leave it at that"

[opendao]

some people like to take advantages of some differing aspects of verbiage and say as little as possible to either make themselves appear more knowledgeable or to minimize the experiences of those conversed with.

 

"what, oh, that DT...well, that's not the DT as I'm talking about it, that's called something else and I dont care if you mix it with the terminology I'm using, I'm just going to say you're incorrect and leave it at that"

 

for some people it's enough to know what DT is NOT

 

The discussed experiences are about Ming manifestations in the usual life, it happens for many people and it's important for the further practice, but it is not LDT because LDT is Ming refined at a certain stage.

 

I encourage people to ask their teachers and check classics to get more details what LDT is and what achievements it gives. It's their practice and life after all, not mine. And I "leave it at that", because it's the only way I know. Nobody will come and reveal Neidan for you on TTB. It needs your efforts, and not in the Internet.

 

Btw, in the Golden Flower you discuss in another thread, there are good instructions how to attest the results of different stages.

[joeblast]

Most often a given container or field will have a certain extent of fluxdensity to reach in order to produce a sort of criticality where a threshold is surpassed and the linear becomes nonlinear. I understand that's the nature of your sticking to particular notions of certain words. But not every paradigm operates exactly like and is labeled just like that, so I think its a good idea to speak as the romans do when in rome as it were and accept some slightly expanded definitions of certain things, otherwise it looks like you're being arrogant. I agree that xing and ming components are important ingredients...just dont expect the forum to not have varying formulas for certain things. What you've experienced works, but its not the only thing that works

[Andrei]

Yes, that would be a nice thing to define these terms before saying what is NOT, so that everybody reading and discussing this topic can understand and relate to:

 

• experiences
• changes
• results

[opendao]

Most often a given container or field will have a certain extent of fluxdensity to reach in order to produce a sort of criticality where a threshold is surpassed and the linear becomes nonlinear. I understand that's the nature of your sticking to particular notions of certain words. But not every paradigm operates exactly like and is labeled just like that, so I think its a good idea to speak as the romans do when in rome as it were and accept some slightly expanded definitions of certain things, otherwise it looks like you're being arrogant. I agree that xing and ming components are important ingredients...just dont expect the forum to not have varying formulas for certain things. What you've experienced works, but its not the only thing that works

 

I have no problems with such approach if somebody's else "notions for certain words" can be proven by:

 

1) lineage holders in well known Daoist schools, who achieved the results we discuss (LDT at least)

2) classical texts of Daoism, in case teachers from #1 confirm the meaning

 

So far I see just opinions with no such arguments, and it's not serious. I can accept it as somebody's experience, but not as something I can use to know more about Neidan. Alchemy teachers tell that "lay people have no Dan Tien". I think it's better to make a research, and understand why they tell like that, instead of accepting everything as "true Romans".

 

To "expand definitions", we need to know definitions first, or it looks arrogant to the tradition being learnt.

 

Also to be clear, I don't discuss other teachings or paradigms, because Dan Tien is a word historically specific to just one paradigm: Daoist Neidan. If other qigong or new-age teachings use it, then such terms we need to research by isolating them inside such new formations, without jumping back and forth between them and Neidan texts. Then it will be sort of correct.

 

And I already wrote about the difference between Neidan and Qigong approach to LDT.

[joeblast]

well, if you treat everyone else's practices and experiences as simply not serious, any results as binary and somewhat predicated upon being removed from society, I dont know how you expect to interact with too many people around here.

 

this is the same reason mo pai threads go nowhere, every practitioner (of the 'outlaw western branch' to clarify, since the lone "rep" of actual easten that showed up here was respectful) like this, "sorry, this is the only reliable and true way, or so I heard and believe, so everything you assert is junk since it doesnt come from my source, for there are no other possible methods." so are you telling us spiritual alchemy = neigong and anything else doesnt qualify as neigong? and we've already established your view that "dantien" only exists after having completed certain points on the spiritual alchemy path and it is what? before then... nothing? holds no charge, has no color, energydensity, what? and nobody can see it until....what again? yesyes, the sum not necessarily being more than the parts until that point on the spiritual alchemy process is completed...but your complete dismissal of anything aside from having completed that step is rather narrow. narrow enough so as to be limiting. clinging very tightly to verbiage.

 

*shrugs*

[gendao]

Animal bodies have energy centers - all of them from what I have directly observed and from what others have observed that can see the outside and inside of auras.

 

The chakras exist in all humans though the development / brightness and vitality differs greatly. Even stepping off the plane from one country to the next you will find sometimes vast differences between say a western country and a third world country as far as the visibility of these centers.

 

Their are significant differences between states and within states - the costal inhabitants of California tend to be quite healthy, bright and multicolored by comparison to those only 1 or 2 hours inland.

 

Each race has a tonal quality that is very different (and each of our bodies have significant reactions to various races having nothing to do with our cultural exposure but exclusively because of our DNA - it's an instinctive reaction apart from learned patterns).

 

Men and women emit different sounds as well.

 

My LDT turned on once when I was about 14 years old - if it had not turned on and heated my body up I would very possibly have frozen to death. As it turned out I was in -5 degree weather and steam was coming off my entire body - not to mention I had to ski 3 lifts over to get to the main lodge so the wind chill was easily 30-40 below zero when I was skiing down while I was wearing only a light windbreaker and yet my earlobes were toasty warm as well as my toes and finger tips.

 

I did not know what it was until years later.

 

We have chakras between each bone in our body, within the eyes and well above our heads.

The tip of each finger and toe has a chakra.

 

This is not actually an important argument but it illustrates the assumptions that we often make, it illustrates how incorrect Adept teachers can be, it illustrates a richer inheritance.

 

We truly are like a huge intergalactic space vehicle, and we strap in each morning inside the hubcap of a wheel and look at the reflections on the "wall" and we get excited about what we think we see and do. And we read a book and decide to create a chakra while we disregard Every Single Great Enlightened Teacher That Has Ever Existed Who Each And Everyone Of Whom Said - it's already all right here - the kingdom of heaven is at hand - be here now - in a flash it can happen.

 

So anyway - it is from personal experience that I made the statement that I did.

I try to speak only from personal experience.

 

I have been working pretty intensely in Qi Gong now for over 3 years with a 6th Generation Shaolin Temple Grand Master Monk (5 classes a week). What I am certain now is my LDT is definitely the very same LDT that turned on and warmed me up all those many years ago. It also activated by itself one other time when I was about 36 during a very emotional breakup with my girlfriend. I was so overcome by emotion that it suddenly turned on and like a furnace my emotions just went through the fire - in my LDT - it was the only way I could process the stream fast enough. It was a huge surprise and an immediate reminder of my prior experience out on the slopes yet for such a different purpose.

You have alluded to this numerous times now.. Could you specifically describe the typical energetic and tonal differences you observe between animals, Western & 3rd World countries, different regions in the US, races & genders? And what about plants, fungi, different ages or gurus/masters?

 

And can you also sense these energetic qualities through photos or videos, rather than just in person?

Edited September 3, 2014 by vortex

[KenBrace]

 

Deep trance ... so hard to get it ... ?

In which way to achieve it ... seat for hours "waiting" on it ... or use self hypnosis and kick in a deep trance in a seconds ...

 

Just courious. I have been reading a book about hypnosis recently ...

The way I understand it you've got to allow your body to fall asleep while keeping your mind awake and alert. And not only that but after you've successfully fallen asleep while keeping your mind awake, you've got to sink deeper into sleep to the point where your brain wave activity, heart rate, and breath rate slow down to an almost stop. Far below the lowest delta stages of normal sleep.

[Spotless]

You have http://thetaobums.com/topic/27001-opening-of-the-third-eye-and-other-byproducts-along-the-way/?p=574526]alluded to this[/url] numerous times now.. Could you specifically describe the typical energetic and tonal differences you observe between animals, Western & 3rd World countries, different regions in the US, races & genders? And what about plants, fungi, different ages or gurus/masters?

 

And can you also sense these energetic qualities through photos or videos, rather than just in person?

I have described these things in various posts, such as the sound of male and female. Also the sounds of several races. The sounds do not matter from most any practical purpose if you do not hear them. My bigger points on these matters - particularly the Race tones was how I had reacted to them on a body level - a DNA level. Prior to hearing with Clairaudience I did not associate certain elements within my reactionary space as having anything to do with inherited "wolf pack" reactions to other humans by race - it was never on the table - I was certain that was cultural.

 

One day a situation presented itself wherein I was in a very clear space (one of the perks of practice - in this case meditation) and suddenly I heard the sound of a Race and my body did NOT like that particular sound. I swear if I had been a dog I would have jumped up and started barking while not yet fully aware of why.

 

I was sitting at the desk of a store I managed at the time and I was the only one there. The sound came from a couple that were just entering the store and here I was reacting to them and their sound very distinctly and in a negative way. I sat there for several minutes and worked on becoming neutral to the reactionary patterning, did so and when I was to my satisfaction once again in a clear neutral space, I got up and worked with the customers.

 

Several weeks later they made a large purchase and as they were about to work with me on the contract, they stated "you know you don't really have the best of what we were looking for but we enjoyed working with you so much that we decided to buy from you".

I was also invited to their home and it was exquisite.

 

If you cannot hear for yourself, any information regarding the actual sounds of the races would just be programming.

 

Regarding the general appearances of people from different areas, I can give you some ideas:

Typically the auras of people from cities is brighter and more complex. (They live in a more complex area and the complexity requires more presence in a sense)

Typically the auras in more complex nations tend to be brighter and more complex and the upper and lower chakras are all relatively visible.

Typically the auras in less complex nations and third world nations tend to have somewhat wispy upper chakras and the auras themselves are thinner and less expanded.

 

Typically the auras of more complex areas tend to hold their ground more and have less fear in many respects and be less reactionary in the wider overview.

 

Typically the auras of less complex areas tend to be a bit smoother and whole. In these areas their is less puffery in the "personality" of the aura.

Typically in the more complex areas the auras have more "personality" such as being more in front of the person there by making them more imposing. Often the aura is barely visible below the knees and it is not much more pronounced in back of them.

 

Typically the thought forms surrounding people of more complex societies and cities are substantially greater than in less complex areas.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Spotless

[Horus]

Thanks Spotless, what kind of meditation do you do?

[Horus]

I sat there for several minutes and worked on becoming neutral to the reactionary patterning, did so and when I was to my satisfaction once again in a clear neutral space, I got up and worked with the customers.

 

Mastery.

 

Why is it that so many strive so hard to balance their five phases and yin and yang aspects within...they work their whole lifetime at it.....And yet so few expand that practice into their relationships with self, family, and others in the world at large?

 

Without true Virtue all cultivation might as well be left to pissing up a wall imo.

 

Well done Spotless...you strive toward your name - and so it is!

[Spotless]

Horus asked:

"Thanks Spotless, what kind of meditation do you do?"

 

 

At this point when I meditate. I am not exactly sure what it would be called.

 

I just turned 60 so about 40+ years ago I was doing primarily Raja Yoga - I am not certain but that may now be called Insight

Meditation. In all of my traditions we strive not to go into trance and so I do not do trance meditation. Just as a note I have never had an affinity with chanting, possibly because this typically results in a trance state, or possibly because chanting and dance movement were not something I was drawn to simply because I am not really centered in those proclivities.

 

Originally I sat in lotus and settled in the center of my head - now I sit however I want but primarily in half lotus, just cross legged or in a chair on the edge of the seat. (Though now I have to be careful about closing my eyes - I am subject to sitting in meditation whenever they close) Recently I have been doing some standing meditation with trees - I think I am going to study some of the different species - the feeling is pretty incredible - I'm not certain that it qualifies as "meditation" per se but most of the day feels like meditation at this point.

 

I learned all the traditional breathing techniques and never used them to start a fire. Just as tools as taught by a teacher or described in a book. The books back then were quite traditional - short cuts were definitely frowned upon and they did not have a lot of books pushing things like "open your third eye Today!".

 

Back then Yoga was mainly meditation and if postures were important, they were nothing compared to the importance of meditation,

At least not in my traditions. I was able to do advanced postures from the day I started because I had been a Downhill ski racer and for high speeds you stretch, so I could already put my legs behind my head.

 

Almost all of my meditation has been at least an hour long. 2-4 hours is typical and twice that is not rare.

Sometimes - though rarely now I will leave my body during meditation and work near it or on it from just a few feet away.

Sometimes - though rarely I will go into trance for work on that level but it is rare.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Spotless

[Horus]

Not speaking from a Taoist alchemy school, but just general layman's experience...

 

In one of Eva Wong's books on Taoist alchemy, "yellow sprouts" and "golden sparks flying from behind the navel" (I think they're the same thing) are said to be a sign that the lower dantian is filled/activated/working/however you want to say it. This is pretty obvious to anyone who practices this stuff...you feel a new sort of qi, going out from the dantian as you try to keep it and your attention in there, and there's nothing you can do about it. I think it starts to be taken in to the extraordinary vessels, and you start to feel it flowing along those pathways in general...up the back and spine especially.

 

So that's a sign of at least some progress in this method. People on the internet can nitpick it however much they want...practitioners can doubt their own experience however much they want. But a new qi is being produced regardless, if you practice lower dantian filling.

 

Other markers of progress...your body basically becoming golden and soft looking if you look in the mirror. Means your jing is full for the time being. Your body feeling like one energy, united...no front, side, back, top, bottom...just one thing, like light...in addition your aura is basically very strong and extends past your skin. You basically are your aura and so is your body. One thing. This aura is partly due to wei qi. So you're very likely not becoming sick ever, and feel more youthful.

 

Visualization can definitely make it stronger, if you do it right. But visualization also strongly activates the upper dantian...as does spatially locating your awareness someplace in the body, or an object of visualization. This becomes obvious to anyone who practices such methods for a while. Something less UDT-activating, is to "just feel what's going on" in the lower dantian area. Not to spatially relocate awareness. Just feeling what's going on, or gently meditating on the sensations of the lower belly, doesn't active the upper so much.

 

I think there are more problems than simply this, by relocating awareness...basically the spirit is leaving its center when this is done. Also, stagnation is being built up in the new area of awareness...not good to have stagnation in the lower dantian. Or especially the heart area, if you were to try methods involving that. It's also not good to put attention inside of the body, in my opinion, since the body is what holds karma and the unconscious...so you're bringing up shit to a certain extent. These are just things I've noticed...but they're easy to deal with for people who really want to practice this.

 

I think where the hands are, can help where the qi goes (look at the homunculus figure, our brain is most aware of the hands)...so for instance the stillness-movement seated hand position would help cause the lower dantian to fill. Kunlun Nei Gung has the same position for "closing down" after other methods. It's interesting to research the acupuncture points in that area, below the navel and above the pubic bone.

 

Just random stuff to think about, not at all advanced or legitimate.

I agree, this is a great post.

 

"Layman"? I'm not so sure

 

"In one of Eva Wong's books on Taoist alchemy, "yellow sprouts" and "golden sparks flying from behind the navel" (I think they're the same thing) are said to be a sign that the lower dantian is filled/activated/working/however you want to say it"

 

Thanks for that..another missing link for me

 

In the experience that I've just posted about in this (thread) about spiritual projection into the abdomen. That is exactly what I saw. The image of it rummages around in my head for answers every second day. I saw golden (very bright white) sparks flying from behind the navel - actually they we're flying out from behind the golden disk (ming men?) and seemed to come through the disk or around it (slightly different dimensionally) and then careered throughout channels (triple burner/lower burner I believe).

 

So, there is my lineage reference lol

 

I had not started doing any Taoist Alchemy at that stage - and yet the sprouts were in there going crazy, and the LDT was a big golden glowing presence.

 

Also, my attention upon it seemed to cause it to flare up and produce more...

 

Since then I have had similar expereinces with the UDT and LDT (2 years into UT Fusions 1&2 - and within a few weeks of dropping the Fusions).

 

So, I recently had a similar experience. I was fully projected within UDT and the space was empty blackness with a shimmering light on the bottom surface of UDT.

 

When I questioned "what is the source of this flickering light?" - immediately, my center of awareness shifted down to the MDT - and before me was the source of the UDT (Shen) - there was a big fat white flame right in the center of the MDT cavity.

 

It has taken a few sittings to ruminate on the meanings and locations, but I feel that this acknowledges the differing states of jing-qi-shen transformations.

 

In the LDT the state of energy is more dense and the disk seems more "solid" also (the jing centre) and then rising to the MDT the energy is less dense, having "melted" and is in a "flame" state (the qi centre), and finally the UDT is the least dense and most Yang - a pure "light" state.

 

I don't believe that these transitions are linear, but that viewing them as such is useful - and helps one break down and break out of the experience of said transitions - on their road to unification of all centers into light.

 

So, for me these inner voyages have really helped humble me. They've helped me realise how much healing is to be done in order that the upper cavity is once again filled with Shen.

 

I believe that there are many ways to do this. Personally, a multifaceted approach that weeds out all of the lesser approaches is my path.

 

Imho I feel that a purely Virtue/De based approach without any form of sitting mediation can also get you there. In other words applying the highest virtue in every thought, word, and deed - living in real-time experience with life will fill the DT's and achieve both enlightenment and immortality.

 

It's not my approach only (I apply that, but also meditate + other things)...

 

But my wife does not meditate. She lives a waking state Darma of the highest order. I'm yet to voyage inside and take a peak at her centers - but I'll eat my hat if they are not bigger than mine.

 

She was born knowing, seeing, and being able to perform any of the Shen based abilities spoken of in texts - more than 99.9999999% of people ever even aspire to, because they just don't have the level of evolution that simply puts you right there from the very beginning. It all comes down to Yuan Qi and De.

 

Zero F$#ks are given at that level when it comes to escaping Hampster wheels. When you are the Hampster Wheel and all of the Hampsters you come and go as you please, and can see all of your past and future incarnations. And when you are there, effortless right action creates more virtue repeater.

 

Texts, lineages, and community sharing are fantastic - but at the end of it - it comes down to you, your choices and your intention.

 

Your lineage will not do it for you, and until you can do it yourself - they will feed on you.

 

It's all you - so, what way do you want to fill your LDT?

 

If you have enough conviction you can totally change the system anyway - this is illusion.

[Horus]

In one of Eva Wong's books on Taoist alchemy, "yellow sprouts" and "golden sparks flying from behind the navel" (I think they're the same thing) are said to be a sign that the lower dantian is filled/activated/working/however you want to say it.

Anyone know which Eva Wong Text this comes from?

[Horus]

The Tan Tiens aren't "real" places, physically.

 

There are matching physical places with conduits that empower "ganglions".

An MRI of the lower Tan Tien would reveal nothing.

 

In cultivating, you are becoming aware of super-imposed/over lapping vehicles.

You are just transferring consciousness to another realm, so to speak.

That's why Qi responds better when the cultivator is in Alpha state, as opposed to being in normal Beta state.

 

Filling Tan Tiens is a misnomer. IMO

 

The Tan Tien is not growing, but rather, your perception of it is growing.

 

Google "false pregnancy"- the body will falsely accommodate a wrong perception.

 

Multiple Personality Disorder, will provide various personalities, with varying medical disorders.

 

Hypnosis can create or eradicate illnesses.

 

If you meditate daily, and put your awareness in any part of the body- let's say- your big toe.

Do this for a couple of weeks, and it feels as though there is a major chakra there.

Do it longer, and you will swear there is a Tan Tien there.

 

 

There is much more to Tan Tien cultivation.

IMO, it isn't so black and white.

 

Cultivation = gaining control over etheric realms, and aligning via perception

Great post!

 

But man! What would you know?!

 

You're not part of any lineage, probably did your own research over a life-time and just practiced..Pfff!

 

It's not like you have a Cinnabar Field you can prove is it? lol Not like you can actually show it on camera or something like a pink polka dot body haha!

 

Not like you can show stigmata from developed dantiens and cultivated Qi.

 

One Lone Man cannot do these things alone right?!

 

You need a lineage of old grey haired hermit farts to tell you how to cultivate, when to live, and when to die right?!

 

How much does a dantien cost btw?

[Horus]

I was trying to tell the people all along but nobody was listening.

Hey!..I was listening...

Maybe you can't hear us listening?

[Horus]

 

When one breathes deeply is full, when exhale is empty. When is half full or half empty, then you are wasting your time in breathing. So to speak as a Chi Kung practitioner.

I like this, but for disambiguation...

 

I like BKA's light joke btw

 

There imbeds the impression that upon exhale the dt empties and upon inhale it fills...JoeBlast might have a few comments upon that (probably already has down the thread?).

 

While the energy potentials of the dt wax and wane - I don't think you can see that visually when seated internally looking right at the LDT itself. ie it is not literally a disk fills up and empties, like it's not a visual event to perceive in that way.. Not ime anyway...

 

Maybe its more that upon inhale it waxes to high and upon exhale it wanes to low, but does not "empty". As development progresses there are higher levels of wax and wane occuring...no empty as such.

 

I'm fascinated by dantiens. They are like dr who's Tardis imo.

 

The circumference of the dantien can exceed the boundaries of the physical (just as size reference) and etheric body - and yet seems to appear "contained within" it.

 

This is a big part of the confusion for many. The dantiens get bigger, but also denser, and change in colour and then also fuse with the other centers, and also solidify...

[Horus]

"working with" can absolutely be done while not in that deep state. "making that which you've cultivated part of what you're harvesting" is where the deep state is required. are you telling us with all the time you've put in to this you cant change the potential a bit there and do something with it? just curious, because your verbiage is always absolute and certain, and whereas the nature of words is abstraction, there's always a ton of different ways to say the same thing yet have some slightly different connotation.

IME the deep state of trance, over time and practice starts to enter the waking state.

 

In the beginning you may find that it requires the deep state, but in time the deep state will engulf your waking state and what once took hours is achievable in a single breath. a single word.

 

Thus spoke the Creator...

[Horus]

Hello mr. More_Pie_Guy. IMO, there is a very good reason that often people of some real experience in internal cultivation practices point out that you need a qualified teacher to learn this stuff. It is not because people can't make progress on their own in this sort of thing, but it is because it is so easy to get off track without ever realizing it without the guidance of a qualified teacher. For example, when you insist that you feel you need to get into a deep altered state of some sort to have any much chance of making real progress, and that people who don't worry about such things and practice regularly even though they may not experience a deeply relaxed or altered state, are pretty much wasting their time, I am pretty certain that any experienced teacher in internal practices would likely tell you immediately to get such foolish notions out of your head and just start regularly practicing. The most important keys are a good sound method, guidance from an experienced and qualified teacher, and regular practice.

 

Through regular and correct practice the student will naturally over time be able to get into 'deeper' states of relaxation. Everyone will progress at their own natural pace, and some people may excel at certain things while other people may excel at different things. On the other hand, if a student takes an attitude that they really 'just know how it all should be done' instead of following the teacher's advice, the chances of causing issues for them self such as causing imbalances and blockages and that sort of thing are much more likely. By taking an attitude that you must experience some expected thing before you can even start making progress sounds like a sure way to take what should be a natural process and impose all sorts of unecessary restrictions, and pressures and stresses (whether realized or not) which will more than likely just lead to imbalances and other issues than anything else.

 

I am not a master by any means, but I will tell you a couple things that anyone who has practiced internal cultivation practices for any length of time should likely be aware of:

 

1) While it may be generally true that the deeper the state of relaxation and letting go you can achieve, the better, it is in no way required that you have to be deeply relaxed or have to be feeling lots of sensations to be making progress. Correct and regular practice is much more important, as I think any authentic teacher would likely point out. Also as I mentioned previously, a person will naturally be able to get into 'deeper' and more relaxed states over time through regular practice.

 

2) Any student who has practiced internal practices of one sort or another for any period of time would also likely be aware that they may actually be going into fairly deep altered states of consciousness fairly quickly in their practice without really being consciously aware of it at all (you may not notice a shift in consciousness at all) until some sudden sound or event suddenly snaps you out of it and gives a shock to your system which may make you jump half out of your skin, and then you realize that you really were in a quite deep altered state without having any conscious awareness of it. This is why people are typically advised to come out of stillness practice slowly to give them self time to gradually return to a normal state of waking state functioning.

 

Natural, regular practice, preferably with at least occasional guidance from a good teacher, is the way to go, Taking an attitude that you pretty much know it all and that everyone else must be wrong is probably not a good idea IMO. Good luck in your practice.

Yes, I have to agree with this.

 

Even if you did 15 minutes a day of practicing the fundamentals of breath mechanics, attenuating the noise and turbulence of inhale/exhale transitions - you will rapidly increase your ability to quickly enter deep trance states - or achieve the ability to maintain deep stillness and enter alpha, theta, and delta states in a waking and even outward moving state.

 

If you set two students on a split test - I'd bet you some cash that the one doing the fundamentals 15 minutes a day will advance faster and deeper that the one that did 1hr once a week of just sitting still and trying to go deep.

[Horus]

Nice reply, I really appreciate your contributions

 

 

I only wanted to clarify that the reason I don't feel right with the term 'fill' regarding Dantians is that to fill something, you need a defined container, a limited space with a border. The border may be flexible, but it's still there. Dantians don't work like that. 'Expand' is a word a like, it feels good.

I think dantiens do "work like that" - they do have borders, albeit flexible ones. They act as containers in a sense. However semantically problematic it is.

 

Developing, Filling, Expanding, Feeding, Growing, Nurturing, Increasing...I don't think the term we are comfortable with really matters beyond getting a personally workable comprehension.

 

Ultimately we are talking about rooting Yang Qi in the LDT (a Yin Centre).

 

Breath work is the most common method, but not the only one.

 

You can just hold a mass of Yang Qi at the center and that will do it too (ie a Sun, another master's Dantien etc)

 

The more intense and charged the mass of Yang Qi the greater the Developing, Filling, Expanding, Feeding, Growing, Nurturing, Increasing...

 

Breath methods work by gathering Qi, Yang Qi, and "sinking" it to the LDT.

 

But, why stop there - just put the Yang Qi in.