Filling up the lower Dan Tien- How and Why

[Ya Mu]

My understanding is that if your leading qi all over your body with visualization or movement then its impossible to fill the dantian. It would take well over 20 years.

Visualization - agree; I am not a fan.

 

Depends on the movements. I think it possible in 3 years with the right kind of movement. But then you keep doing them for 20 years/50 years/etc

[SonOfTheGods]

My understanding is that if your leading qi all over your body with visualization or movement then its impossible to fill the dantian. It would take well over 20 years.

 

Energy follows mind.

 

mages thousands of years ago knew this

 

the mind is more powerful than any tan tien

Edited January 8, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[BaguaKicksAss]

Energy follows mind.

 

mages thousands of years ago knew this

 

the mind is more powerful than any tan tien

 

The energy used by magicians and that used by qigong people is quite a bit different, I have found.

[SonOfTheGods]

I should have put in my post IMO/IME

[NotVoid]

I like riddles.

Mages practice magic.

Sages practice nothing.

What has mastery to do with it?

 

[SonOfTheGods]

What happens when one leaves mind out of it?

rote memory is still part of the mind, breathing, etc

 

*DISCLAIMER* IMO/IME

 

I can light up my tan tiens instantly with my mind.

 

(I was intertested in Gary Clyman's works solely on this basis, that he incorporates mind into his work- so I was wondering if I do same, innately/intuitively. - However, I still have not come across any of his works- so I may never know if my assumptions are accurate)

 

If I am doing an evocation ritual, I fill up the triangle of art solely through a horse stance, and colour it with my intention- works like a charm

Edited January 9, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[NotVoid]

What happens when one leaves mind out of it?

 

Another riddle.

Then mind will be left out of it.

But what is the difference between mind and it?

 

[BaguaKicksAss]

rote memory is still part of the mind, breathing, etc

 

*DISCLAIMER* IMO/IME

 

I can light up my tan tiens instantly with my mind.

 

(I was intertested in Gary Clyman's works solely on this basis, that he incorporates mind into his work- so I was wondering if I do same, innately/intuitively. - However, I still have not come across any of his works- so I may never know if my assumptions are accurate)

 

If I am doing an evocation ritual, I fill up the triangle of art solely through a horse stance, and colour it with my intention- works like a charm

 

Fill up the triangle with the horse stance huh? Well it seems obvious then, the spirits like to see you SUFFER!

[SonOfTheGods]

Fill up the triangle with the horse stance huh? Well it seems obvious then, the spirits like to see you SUFFER!

kinda small horse stance - like a pony stance heh

 

that's real SM practice! .. and I dont mean Stillness Movement

Edited January 9, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[dawei]

What happens when one leaves mind out of it?

 

Excellent !

 

The horse goes on another road... probably less bumpy...

[BaguaKicksAss]

kinda small horse stance - like a pony stance heh

 

that's real SM practice! .. and I dont mean Stillness Movement

 

*dies laughing*

 

Yes, yes, horse stance could most definitely be used in that sort of environment. I should go to the local fetish club, head into the dungeon, and instead of saying "kneel" I'll just teach them all horse stance mwuahahahahah!

[Jock]

Energy follows mind.

 

mages thousands of years ago knew this

 

the mind is more powerful than any tan tien

 

I couldnt agree more, but i think that ability only comes in much higher levels.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I couldnt agree more, but i think that ability only comes in much higher levels.

 

Or a buttload of natural talent .

[Aeran]

I don't know, I find visualization/intent works as well as the breathing/posture/movement once you develop it a bit. The Middle Pillar, for example, is more or less entirely visual (well, with sound thrown in), and I found it far more intense than any qi gong I've ever tried in terms of the sheer quantity of energy involved. The flip side is that it seems to take more practice to learn to interact with energy that way, you have to learn to maintain the visuals and the intent, whereas with the movement/breath you can just do it.

[UTI]

My understanding is that if your leading qi all over your body with visualization or movement then its impossible to fill the dantian. It would take well over 20 years.

 

I agree completely. I hope I didn't come off as claiming one should lead qi all over the body to fill the dantian. I also feel there is a difference between visualizing qi and leading qi. Like the difference between thinking about breathing and taking a breath.

[Jock]

I think even "Zhan Zhuang" circulates energy to different parts of the body,depending on the stance.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I have been told by a few martial arts/qigong teachers that visualizing stuff actually screws up the natural process of the qi flow. I have also seen problems with the practices of folks who do a lot of visualization with their qigong.

[joeblast]

and most often its not enough stillness after a powerful practice. I consider myself lucky I had put in so much time with the ymaa, bk, and fundamental stuffz before I got into doing's max's stuff.

[dawei]

I have been told by a few martial arts/qigong teachers that visualizing stuff actually screws up the natural process of the qi flow. I have also seen problems with the practices of folks who do a lot of visualization with their qigong.

 

That may be because visualization can become a dependency on some level and one is not letting stillness do its thing.

 

I tend to see it similar to inner and outer energy work; you can over do one or the other; you can have both; balance them and you can find something which otherwise may not make itself known.

[Aeran]

I have been told by a few martial arts/qigong teachers that visualizing stuff actually screws up the natural process of the qi flow. I have also seen problems with the practices of folks who do a lot of visualization with their qigong.

 

I imagine it depends on the exercise you're doing. If you're practicing qi gong based on movement/breathing, then visualizing, especially without a trained mind, is likely to just complicate things and screw them up, because the mind won't be working in unison with the body and you'll end up trying to direct energy all over the place.

 

But that isn't the same as saying 'visualization is useless for moving energy.'

[dawei]

I imagine it depends on the exercise you're doing. If you're practicing qi gong based on movement/breathing, then visualizing, especially without a trained mind, is likely to just complicate things and screw them up, because the mind won't be working in unison with the body and you'll end up trying to direct energy all over the place.

 

But that isn't the same as saying 'visualization is useless for moving energy.'

 

I would agree that visualization is trickier as it requires more understanding, focus, and attention to when or when not.

 

My background is heavily dependent on visualization in energy work. What I can now appreciate through experience is the movement created by stillness and exploring the spectrum in-between.

[dwai]

 

I would agree that visualization is trickier as it requires more understanding, focus, and attention to when or when not.

 

My background is heavily dependent on visualization in energy work. What I can now appreciate through experience is the movement created by stillness and exploring the spectrum in-between.

Chi follows yi. And visualization is perfectly alright to start as long yi is there

[Aeran]

I would agree that visualization is trickier as it requires more understanding, focus, and attention to when or when not.

 

My background is heavily dependent on visualization in energy work. What I can now appreciate through experience is the movement created by stillness and exploring the spectrum in-between.

 

Exactly. The other problem is that it's very easy to fool yourself with visualization, especially if you haven't trained your tactile imagination as well, the visualization leads the energy as a part of the combo of visual imagination/tactile imagination/intent, but a lot of people don't understand that, so they construct the image by itself in their head and mistake that for the actual energy.

[thelerner]

Exactly. The other problem is that it's very easy to fool yourself with visualization, especially if you haven't trained your tactile imagination as well, the visualization leads the energy as a part of the combo of visual imagination/tactile imagination/intent, but a lot of people don't understand that, so they construct the image by itself in their head and mistake that for the actual energy.

Yeah, I see that particularly in the practice of the micro cosmic orbit. To much imagination and the real thing never gets developed. And the difference between the real thing and the oft imagined is huge; one a lightening bug, the other a lightning bolt, or so I'm told.

[UTI]

Before I started with chinese medicine and cultivation, I worked with Franz Bardon's hermeticism. The first stages of his teachings are about moving from visualization to manifestation of will within and without the body by focusing the visualization on physical processes to create physical response. I find this to be the right use of visualization. Don't visualize qi moving somewhere, feel qi moving. Get the actual bodily response of something happening. Otherwise it is my experience, just as several have stated here already, that visualization can go astray and lead away from stillness into malpractice.

 

The body is here to manifest our will, so we should use it.