Filling up the lower Dan Tien- How and Why

[Wu Ming Jen]

Ldt is the center of the energy body and the physical body you can't have one without the other.People can argue about existence and nonexistence all day long but you can't have one without the other. to mistake energy body as a physical thing is confusion.

 

Primordial is before existence before having a physical form, the energy is present before being born we don't have to "do" anything to make this happen. The temporary body is important while we have shape and color. What has no shape or color is also important.Yes there is a LDT and yes there is no LDT are we talking about the physical or energetically.

 

western medicine looks at what can be seen,this method would have discovered a physical LDT for all to see. Chinese medicine is concerned with the whole picture, not just what can be seen by the eyes. If there is no confusion then Does the LDT have a physical location, shape, color, form? I think this is a great subject to discuss, right and wrong put aside, let personal experience reign supreme.

[ChiDragon]

Define: "Results"

 

The result is able to Sink Chi to the dan tian.

Edited March 26, 2014 by ChiDragon

[SonOfTheGods]

 

The result is to Sink Chi to the dan tian.

The Discovery/Realization, that one actually is accomplishing, the Process: of Qi to Sink to the Tan Tien, is the result

[Wu Ming Jen]

Energetically my dan tien is like a gold sphere, why gold, what is the color of light? I will call it gold. Why a sphere,it is something round. Why is it like this, because it is not actually this. it can be heavy enough for others to feel or light enough to be unnoticed. I can change the frequency, use it to attract or repel, its marvels are not limited to the physical realm.

[joeblast]

Now ya talkin!

 

In this case I used the words "results" to be linked with - folks are able to achieve an increase in yang chi "growing/filling" in LDT by simply considering the whole abdomen as LDT (or by not being too concerned about pinpoint accuracy as to its exact "location".

 

For me, particularly now I have seen LDT, I'm still going to explore (in practice) which is better:

• Focus very specifically on the exact center of the actual LDT that I have seen (glowing disk)
• Allow for it not to "matter" - and allow Yi to drive the breath (yang chi) to reach LDT (ie not be so worried about the precise location of LDT)

For me it's only then a question of which gives more rapid, or more holistic results, or perhaps which results ensures maximum uptake of the available chi with each inhale.

yup, begin with something like embryonic breathing which considers more of the whole gut;

energy center emerges,

then can go right there.

but,

going back to eb often is quite helpful

then again, I really dont know how many cuts the gem of anapanasati really has

[Horus]

Ldt is the center of the energy body and the physical body you can't have one without the other.People can argue about existence and nonexistence all day long but you can't have one without the other. to mistake energy body as a physical thing is confusion.

 

Primordial is before existence before having a physical form, the energy is present before being born we don't have to "do" anything to make this happen. The temporary body is important while we have shape and color. What has no shape or color is also important.Yes there is a LDT and yes there is no LDT are we talking about the physical or energetically.

 

western medicine looks at what can be seen,this method would have discovered a physical LDT for all to see. Chinese medicine is concerned with the whole picture, not just what can be seen by the eyes. If there is no confusion then Does the LDT have a physical location, shape, color, form? I think this is a great subject to discuss, right and wrong put aside, let personal experience reign supreme.

Thanks Wu Ming Jen

 

Your word ring with a grounded resonance founded in practice.

 

Let this not be a discussion on the existence physical or otherwise of LDT or any other DT - such comments to that affect are welcome but off topic - I can only discmiss what tries to unplug what I know with certainty. I have seen it with my own soul.

 

Western medicine is concerned with the whole picture also - it merely asks us all to look in the other direction (ie distracted illusion).

 

"Does the LDT have a physical location, shape, color, form?" - semanticas aside - the physical location that parallels where LDT is situated on the subtle/etheric body is perhaps more apt. Answer: yes it has a location, and yes the colour and shape and form changes depending on many conditions.

 

"let personal experience reign supreme" - well, provided that personal will surrenders to divine will - personal experience is supreme.

[Horus]

Energetically my dan tien is like a gold sphere, why gold, what is the color of light? I will call it gold. Why a sphere,it is something round. Why is it like this, because it is not actually this. it can be heavy enough for others to feel or light enough to be unnoticed. I can change the frequency, use it to attract or repel, its marvels are not limited to the physical realm.

Thanks again Wu Ming Jen

 

You are a living gem.

 

So, you have obviously perceived LDT with inner vision? Is that right?

[Horus]

yup, begin with something like embryonic breathing which considers more of the whole gut;

energy center emerges,

then can go right there.

but,

going back to eb often is quite helpful

then again, I really dont know how many cuts the gem of anapanasati really has

Thanks Joe

 

You're always a font of wisdom.

 

Have any of the Mo Pai practitioners found that embryonic breathing leads to the center like Joe mentioned "energy center emerges"?

[joeblast]

you are too generous the specifics of how may have subtle differences, but the basic mechanism is the same, the basic enhancement of signal to noise ratios are the same, imho. this is a very simple process, also imho. doesnt mean it dont require a sh*t-ton of work, though

[Wu Ming Jen]

Thanks again Wu Ming Jen

 

You are a living gem.

 

So, you have obviously perceived LDT with inner vision? Is that right?

You are very kind. Yes inner vision.

 

I like the term sink chi to the LDT because "sinking" gives the vision of downward motion, gathering, related to the the descending channel in the front of the body associated with water thus sinking chi to the "sea" of chi. The ascending channel up the back being associated with fire, rising all that wonderful stuff. your comment on western medicine and mis direction, look the other way is spot on in my opinion, Thank you

[Horus]

You are very kind. Yes inner vision.

 

I like the term sink chi to the LDT because "sinking" gives the vision of downward motion, gathering, related to the the descending channel in the front of the body associated with water thus sinking chi to the "sea" of chi. The ascending channel up the back being associated with fire, rising all that wonderful stuff. your comment on western medicine and mis direction, look the other way is spot on in my opinion, Thank you

Kindness becomes me Wu Ming Jen!

 

I've not come across anyone yet that has the inner vision like that. To me it only stabilises once there is sufficient chi in the upper dantien...

 

So, could you explain to me what you have done to have this inner vision. I have the inner vision also, but I need to "charge up" before I can make it work. ie it's not stable or constant without the charge - and my capacity to hold the charge without brain fry is not there yet....

 

Would you share what work you have done and how the inner vision works for you?

[BaguaKicksAss]

Kindness becomes me Wu Ming Jen!

 

I've not come across anyone yet that has the inner vision like that. To me it only stabilises once there is sufficient chi in the upper dantien...

 

So, could you explain to me what you have done to have this inner vision. I have the inner vision also, but I need to "charge up" before I can make it work. ie it's not stable or constant without the charge - and my capacity to hold the charge without brain fry is not there yet....

 

Would you share what work you have done and how the inner vision works for you?

 

Meditate for an hour per day everyday, type of mediation doesn't matter. This is the quickest and strongest method to strengthen inner vision a LOT .

[Wu Ming Jen]

Kindness becomes me Wu Ming Jen!

Would you share what work you have done and how the inner vision works for you?

I do Wu Dang Gung Fu this is just one of many....Daily activites

 

Still-sitting Meditation ------ life and death depend on each other. And they cannot work without the opposite. The law of innate nature and life force are main focus of regimen and longevity. Innate nature refers to heart in some aspects, which serves as the source of heart, yet the letter (heart) demonstrates itself in intangible form. People’s hearts are always subject to changes every now and then, just as restless as an ape. In Taoism theory, there exists one popular terminology as subdue dragon and take captive tiger, which teach us how to calm down the heart to have Chi arise naturally. Because corporeal body, heart and true intention can be congealed into one unit--the highest attainment of unifying humans with the nature, the ancient sages advocated cultivating encompassing Chi.

[thelerner]

bounce up

more?

[Thrice Daily]

I'd like to pose a question about solo practice, Feel this is good thread to add to.

 

While cultivating sexual energy, you find you ejaculate.

What practices (if any) do you do in the next day or two afterwards?

 

Do you continue as normal?

 

Do you modify your regular practice?

 

Do you stop all together?

 

Do you have seperate practice entirely?

 

I'm sure many people would be interested to hear Forum Members opinions/advice on this subject.

 

Thanks, Thrice Daily

Edited August 30, 2014 by Thrice Daily

[Jox]

 

Perhaps once you are very advanced, but in my experience it isn't anywhere near the same level of deep trance.

 

 

 

 

Many people I meet would rather practice 15 minutes a day than for a solid few hours once a week.

 

Quality and not quantity is important.

 

It takes me many hours just to even hit a deep state of trance for training, so there is no point even attempting meditation if I can't dedicate the whole day to it.

 

 

 

 

Anyone who has ever achieved a deep state of trance, will understand the gulf between working with energy in that state vs normal waking consciousness.

 

Sensations you can convince yourself you are feeling while in normal waking consciousness, in my experience are not on the same level as being in deep trance. (not even in the same ballpark)

 

It also in my experience is not possible to be up and around and moving and maintain deep trance.

 

Deep trance ... so hard to get it ... ?

In which way to achieve it ... seat for hours "waiting" on it ... or use self hypnosis and kick in a deep trance in a seconds ...

 

Just courious. I have been reading a book about hypnosis recently ...

Edited September 2, 2014 by Jox

[Spotless]

Thanks http://thetaobums.com/user/99599-wu-ming-jen/]Wu Ming Jen[/url]

 

Your word ring with a grounded resonance founded in practice.

 

Let this not be a discussion on the existence physical or otherwise of LDT or any other DT - such comments to that affect are welcome but off topic - I can only discmiss what tries to unplug what I know with certainty. I have seen it with my own soul.

 

Western medicine is concerned with the whole picture also - it merely asks us all to look in the other direction (ie distracted illusion).

 

"Does the LDT have a physical location, shape, color, form?" - semanticas aside - the physical location that parallels where LDT is situated on the subtle/etheric body is perhaps more apt. Answer: yes it has a location, and yes the colour and shape and form changes depending on many conditions.

 

"let personal experience reign supreme" - well, provided that personal will surrenders to divine will - personal experience is supreme.

Western medicine is concerned with methodology and medicine that has been scientifically "proven" and also the lawsuit resistant "picture".

It does not entertain the notion of cosmic forces, chakras or dan tein's. It is actually invested in discounting intuition and hunch or vision. It is paid to overlook and under hear the patient.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Spotless

[Spotless]

In one study released I think in JAMA it was shown the average amount of time spent on dialog between doctor and patient by the patient was 4 seconds. When all you are saying is Yes, no, and ouch it does not take much time.

[joeblast]

Deep trance ... so hard to get it ... ?

In which way to achieve it ... seat for hours "waiting" on it ... or use self hypnosis and kick in a deep trance in a seconds ...

 

Just courious. I have been reading a book about hypnosis recently ...

are ya really gonna trick habit energies away?

 

or build the correct ones, and... let the correct things manifest thusly

 

not that techniques to focus the awareness dont work....they do...but consider the relative shallowness of of the overt yi technique...

 

in the context of establishing a stable ongoing dynamic...

 

well, stop right there...ongoing dynamic...

 

so if you are cultivating an ongoing dynamic...

 

in the moment tricks only get you so much,

 

and where the entire base comes from...that ongoing dynamic.

[opendao]

Should filling the Dan Tien be considered an important mile stone before an esoteric practitioner can move on to other practices.

 

In Neidan the Dan Tien is not filled, but created. This is the main difference with Qigong, where practitioners use their attention to gather energy around some points in the lower abdomen (qihai etc). In Neidan, the creation of the Dan Tien is a first stage - "Building the foundation". It's impossible to progress further without it.

 

Do we 'fill up' the Dan Tien just by deep full breathing and putting attention there?

 

In Neidan such methods as breathing and attention are not used to create the Dan Tien.

 

Does reverse breathing help the process? Is it necessary?

 

Only in Qigong, to create more Houtian energy and "pack" it into the lower part of the body.

In Neidan physical breathing is not used.

 

What are the markers of progress

 

Neidan markers are in books or a teacher can tell them... Shortly speaking, some specific physical changes in the body. Other people can see them as well.

 

and are visualizations a help or hindrance?

 

In Neidan visualizations and mind are not used.

 

Many people mix Neidan concepts about the Dan Tien and modern Qigong methods of breathing, meditation, attention, stillness etc. Alas the methods are not the same with Neidan, and results are very different too. It's really confusing, but practitioners have to figure it out.

[Horus]

Deep trance ... so hard to get it ... ?

In which way to achieve it ... seat for hours "waiting" on it ... or use self hypnosis and kick in a deep trance in a seconds ...

 

Just courious. I have been reading a book about hypnosis recently ...

Plain old breath awareness and absolute stillness.

[Spotless]

The LDT is not created - it exists prior to practice (at least for me it did when I was about 14 years old and it was not until I was about 55 that I heard about the LDT). It is also visible in people.

 

All of the energy centers exist prior to practice. Only a very few of the higher vehicles appear not to exist until much later.

 

Much of this tradition is simply based on the founder adepts lack of inner sight until latter stages in their development. Some is improper translation. Many advanced adept teachers will corroborate this incorrect tradition because very few ever develope very clear sight. Most develop clear knowing and some sight - but very few see fine details and many "adepts" will say it is impossible.

Such is the nature of the "enlightened" group.

 

This does in my opinion nothing to lower them from any pedestal they deserve - we here particularly in the West do not think in degrees of enlightenent or the idea of Awakening and being in an Enlightening process that then never ends. I consider an Enlightened person anyone that has Awakened permanently and is there after not "lost" in the illusion and is living an Enlightening existence there after.

 

It is also relatively easy for an Enlightening idividual to become "stuck" in their unfoldment for periods of time depending primarily on the prior training and accumulation before the Awakening became permanent. Examples of this may be staying in a state of Bliss and finding this to be "the all and everything" before moving to higher states.

 

Nearly all texts state Nirvana as being one level - but in some Tibetan texts we can find 2 levels of Nirvana.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Spotless

[opendao]

The LDT is not created - it exists prior to practice (at least for me it did when I was about 14 years old and it was not until I was about 55 that I heard about the LDT). It is also visible in people.

 

Why do you think you have or had LDT? What are your criteria, if any? What can be visible in people who don't practice?

[Horus]

What can be visible in people who don't practice?

Practice is only for those that are not yet whole...

 

Some are born whole.

[Spotless]

 

Why do you think you have or had LDT? What are your criteria, if any? What can be visible in people who don't practice?

Animal bodies have energy centers - all of them from what I have directly observed and from what others have observed that can see the outside and inside of auras.

 

The chakras exist in all humans though the development / brightness and vitality differs greatly. Even stepping off the plane from one country to the next you will find sometimes vast differences between say a western country and a third world country as far as the visibility of these centers.

 

Their are significant differences between states and within states - the costal inhabitants of California tend to be quite healthy, bright and multicolored by comparison to those only 1 or 2 hours inland.

 

Each race has a tonal quality that is very different (and each of our bodies have significant reactions to various races having nothing to do with our cultural exposure but exclusively because of our DNA - it's an instinctive reaction apart from learned patterns).

 

Men and women emit different sounds as well.

 

My LDT turned on once when I was about 14 years old - if it had not turned on and heated my body up I would very possibly have frozen to death. As it turned out I was in -5 degree weather and steam was coming off my entire body - not to mention I had to ski 3 lifts over to get to the main lodge so the wind chill was easily 30-40 below zero when I was skiing down while I was wearing only a light windbreaker and yet my earlobes were toasty warm as well as my toes and finger tips.

 

I did not know what it was until years later.

 

We have chakras between each bone in our body, within the eyes and well above our heads.

The tip of each finger and toe has a chakra.

 

This is not actually an important argument but it illustrates the assumptions that we often make, it illustrates how incorrect Adept teachers can be, it illustrates a richer inheritance.

 

We truly are like a huge intergalactic space vehicle, and we strap in each morning inside the hubcap of a wheel and look at the reflections on the "wall" and we get excited about what we think we see and do. And we read a book and decide to create a chakra while we disregard Every Single Great Enlightened Teacher That Has Ever Existed Who Each And Everyone Of Whom Said - it's already all right here - the kingdom of heaven is at hand - be here now - in a flash it can happen.

 

So anyway - it is from personal experience that I made the statement that I did.

I try to speak only from personal experience.

 

I have been working pretty intensely in Qi Gong now for over 3 years with a 6th Generation Shaolin Temple Grand Master Monk (5 classes a week). What I am certain now is my LDT is definitely the very same LDT that turned on and warmed me up all those many years ago. It also activated by itself one other time when I was about 36 during a very emotional breakup with my girlfriend. I was so overcome by emotion that it suddenly turned on and like a furnace my emotions just went through the fire - in my LDT - it was the only way I could process the stream fast enough. It was a huge surprise and an immediate reminder of my prior experience out on the slopes yet for such a different purpose.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Spotless