BKA's guide on how to pickup women.... and lizard people

[Aeran]

Yeah, I'd say there's a big difference between, say, listening to Vivaldi because you want to learn to appreciate classical music versus because you want to bang that hot chick at the coffee shop who listens to it, or because that rich aunt you can't stand loves the crap and you want to be included in her will. (Like I said, it isn't about "getting laid" but about character...)

 

Basically. I mean there's some stuff they stress which is universal (everyone should have good hygiene, try to be physically fit, etc), but a lot more of it, from what I've seen, is basically external imitation of the guys who seem to be getting the most of what they want (random sex), which isn't only (I would imagine) partially effective in the short term, but seem to me to be the very definition of 'beta' behavior - mimicking those they perceive as above them (which makes that perception a reality) and allowing them to dictate their behavior instead of genuinely coming to terms with who they are, where they fit into the world and how to optimize that.

[RongzomFan]

Wow, very cost affective! Has this worked for you before?

 

It might be cost effective.

 

The complex pujas are only 30 bucks.

 

Do pujas work? I would say yes, but who really knows.

[bax44]

Excellent posts Brian and Aeron. You hit right on what Ive been trying to get across, and did it very eloquently. Kudos.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Oh, that's easy! Two words -- "false pretenses."

 

If you buy a dark suit to wear to your grandmother's funeral, that is an act of respect and propriety. If you stitch a fake Giorgio Armani label into your WalMart suit, however, and use it to hit on chicks at the funeral, or to get long-lost relatives to "invest with you" then you are a fraud.

 

I can like both J. S. Bach & Bob Marley while being "true to myself." If I pretend to like Brahms or Beastie Boys, I'm not being true to myself. If I use that deception to try to get into somebody's pants, I'm an asshole and deserve it if her brother kicks my ass in the parking lot.

 

It isn't just a matter of "trying to score," either; deception for personal gain is not good, deception at the expense of someone else is worse.

 

Now we get into a slippery spectrum though!

 

I dress up in a job interview and "put my best foot forward" so to speak because I want to get the job. After two years maybe I don't care if my boss sees a little scruff. Am I being disingenuous by cleaning up my image a bit so I can get a job?

 

What If I notice that the football team seems to be popular with the men and the women at school and I want more friends? Maybe I try out for the football team. Is this disingenuous?

 

Maybe I'm tired of being alone and no girls want to date me because I'm a boring nerd. So instead of hanging out with a nerd crowd, I join the running club so I can get in shape and meet more women. Is this also disingenuous?

 

At what point does changing your life become disingenuous?

 

This seems to me to be a very fluid spectrum, and it seems like the goal posts are rather arbitrarily being applied according to, well, according to whatever the hell criteria you want

 

Only go so far on the spectrum, and you're okay, oops, you ticked over into the "bad" side of the spectrum, oh, you're such a bad person now! Hm. How about we cut the bullshit and realize it's the same fundamental action.

[Brian]

 

Basically. I mean there's some stuff they stress which is universal (everyone should have good hygiene, try to be physically fit, etc), but a lot more of it, from what I've seen, is basically external imitation of the guys who seem to be getting the most of what they want (random sex), which isn't only (I would imagine) partially effective in the short term, but seem to me to be the very definition of 'beta' behavior - mimicking those they perceive as above them (which makes that perception a reality) and allowing them to dictate their behavior instead of genuinely coming to terms with who they are, where they fit into the world and how to optimize that.

I think motive is important -- ask why someone is behaving in a particular fashion & what the likely outcome might be.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I'm going to share my "good guys finish first" story. That whole "good guys finish last" stuff is really annoying.

 

So this is something that happened in my early 20's, all by chance. (I can get further ones from my female friends if I am far from a proper selective sample lol). So I used to get flirted with a LOT, not a 10, but did get dates with a few 10's . I was also sort of picky, especially if it was just for sex. Looks were less important if an actual relationship.

 

So I had gone to the bar one night with 3 of my male (all platonic) friends. 2 of them lived in the same building as myself, and another one just knew all of us. 2 of them were co-workers actually. We used to hang out a lot and go on various adventures together. Well for some unknown reason we went to this pickup bar one night, which was about an hour busride from home.... Enjoyed some music, had a few drinks... Well about halfway through the evening, we notice one of our friends is not in the bar. So we scour the entire place, can't find him. So I start asking around.. he sort of stuck out... apparently the bouncers had beat him up and thrown him outside (he was rather big and intimidating, but not a fighter at all).

 

So we all go outside and find our laying on the ground with lots of blood. This was in the days before cel phones, so we are trying to figure out how to get him to the hospital. This guy who had just left the bar figured out what was going on, and offered to give us all a ride to the hospital. Then he even waited until our friend was done (an hour or so). Then offered to give us all rides home (especially the guy with the broken nose). Fortunately for him 3 of us all lived in the same building. So we get there... help my friend into his apartment.... then after him and I confirmed to the guy we were not dating, just friends (in other words he was under the impression that him and I were dating this entire time, so not doing it just in the hopes of getting the girl), I invited the guy back to mine . Well yes he was attractive as well, but it is very likely if he'd just walked up and offered to buy me a drink I would have likely said no.

 

So the moral of this story is, be nice to people, help people, and you will get laid!

 

My female friends agree with this one btw.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Now we get into a slippery spectrum though!

 

I dress up in a job interview and "put my best foot forward" so to speak because I want to get the job. After two years maybe I don't care if my boss sees a little scruff. Am I being disingenuous by cleaning up my image a bit so I can get a job?

 

What If I notice that the football team seems to be popular with the men and the women at school and I want more friends? Maybe I try out for the football team. Is this disingenuous?

 

Maybe I'm tired of being alone and no girls want to date me because I'm a boring nerd. So instead of hanging out with a nerd crowd, I join the running club so I can get in shape and meet more women. Is this also disingenuous?

 

At what point does changing your life become disingenuous?

 

This seems to me to be a very fluid spectrum, and it seems like the goal posts are rather arbitrarily being applied according to, well, according to whatever the hell criteria you want

 

Only go so far on the spectrum, and you're okay, oops, you ticked over into the "bad" side of the spectrum, oh, you're such a bad person now! Hm. How about we cut the bullshit and realize it's the same fundamental action.

 

That reminds me of a couple of primary complaints in long term relationships... about the partner "letting themselves go"... not dressing up anymore, gaining weight, etc. etc.

 

I think with the job, as long as your resume' is legit, you aren't being dishonest. Everyone dressed up for an interview. I see some of the dating scene (men and women) as being more like talking about jobs and experience you've never actually had .

 

No bad can ever come from joining a running club! (yes I'm biased). Though if one were to do that and at the same time ditch all their friends because they just aren't "cool" enough, well that is kinda lame....

[Aeran]

The problem with 'nice guy' is it's often used as a euphemism for 'shy. no self-confidence, passive aggressive' This guy doesn't sound like any of that, just a genuinely nice person. Which ties back into what was being discussed earlier: PUA don't understand that it isn't asshole-ish behavior that attracts women (necessarily, some women will be drawn to men who treat them badly due to their own emotional issues) but the confidence behind it. If you can attain that deep seated confidence you can have the benefits without acting like an asshole, but instead they just adopt the superficial asshole-ish behavior, which will fool enough people to get them laid in the short term (which is fine if thats all they want i guess) but isn't going to lead to any kind of long term satisfaction because you can't maintain a facade forever.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Aeran

[RongzomFan]

It might be cost effective.

 

The complex pujas are only 30 bucks.

 

Do pujas work? I would say yes, but who really knows.

 

BTW, in America, its tax deductible because its considered a donation to a religious institution.

 

So its actually free.

 

Edited January 6, 2014 by RongzomFan

[Aetherous]

It seems to me that the conscious striving to try and mimic the external behavior of such men, Copying the external markers of confidence instead of developing the internal balance that allows you to become confident in yourself, is in itself inherently the most 'beta' behavior of all.

 

Not at all. We have the choice to become whoever we want to be (not just pretending, but becoming)...to create a new form of being natural. This is cultivation. It's not like the self you think you are is real, anyway.

 

I'm not going to look them up, but there are tons of news articles, books, studies, that show how if you stand confidently for instance, you will end up feeling that way. And it definitely seems that you are that way to onlookers, if you do it appropriately. Guys should learn proper body language, tone of voice, behavior, and do it! Back in the day, it was normal for people to be told to stand/sit up straight, and pull your shoulders back, keep your chin up, etc. These days we really don't have many guiding principles in common use, and as a result we see so many effeminate guys.

 

Of course, it's great to develop the internal balance, too. Then the external markers happen quite naturally. But there's no problem with walking around like a badass, because deep inside you are one. If you were pushed enough, if there was enough injustice and you could change things, your actual true self would come forward...the real man.

[BaguaKicksAss]

It might be cost effective.

 

The complex pujas are only 30 bucks.

 

Do pujas work? I would say yes, but who really knows.

 

I could just see it now, me asking Kali-ma to help me find a relationship.....

 

(any request to her always has the outcome of great amazing spiritual growth through loss of ego and hard work!)

 

I'll just file this under "careful what you wish for". PS checkout the few posts on magic for dates, it is semi interesting... page 21 or 23 I think...

 

Wow, we are up to page 29!

 

Have we all figured out how to pickup women yet?

[Aeran]

Not at all. We have the choice to become whoever we want to be (not just pretending, but becoming)...to create a new form of being natural. This is cultivation. It's not like the self you think you are is real, anyway.

 

I'm not going to look them up, but there are tons of news articles, books, studies, that show how if you stand confidently for instance, you will end up feeling that way. And it definitely seems that you are that way to onlookers, if you do it appropriately. Guys should learn proper body language, tone of voice, behavior, and do it! Back in the day, it was normal for people to be told to stand/sit up straight, and pull your shoulders back, keep your chin up, etc. These days we really don't have many guiding principles in common use, and as a result we see so many effeminate guys.

 

Of course, it's great to develop the internal balance, too. Then the external markers happen quite naturally. But there's no problem with walking around like a badass, because deep inside you are one. If you were pushed enough, if there was enough injustice and you could change things, your actual true self would come forward...the real man.

 

And that's all awesome stuff. I'm not disagreeing with any of that, changing posture, becoming fit, dressing better, etc. isn't fake, it's just an enhancement of the self. I'm 100% behind that stuff.

 

It's when you start trying to use technical lingo to break down the way people act in an attempt to mimic what you think will get you sex that I take an issue, because guys who get laid a lot naturally don't do it through technique, they do it because they have that inner self confidence, that belief in themselves that reflects off them onto the people around them. That's what needs to be cultivated, not figuring out when is the right time to insult a girl in a conversation or what to pretend to like to seem interesting.

 

Be the best version of yourself, not a low quality imitation of someone else. When you become that, you won't need the lingo or the fakery or the props because you'll draw the things you want in life to you by merit of knowing that you deserve them.

 

 

Have we all figured out how to pickup women yet?

 

I heard being rich works :/

Edited January 6, 2014 by Aeran

[RongzomFan]

Have we all figured out how to pickup women yet?

 

 

arranged marriage??

Edited January 6, 2014 by RongzomFan

[Brian]

 

Now we get into a slippery spectrum though!

 

I dress up in a job interview and "put my best foot forward" so to speak because I want to get the job. After two years maybe I don't care if my boss sees a little scruff. Am I being disingenuous by cleaning up my image a bit so I can get a job?

 

What If I notice that the football team seems to be popular with the men and the women at school and I want more friends? Maybe I try out for the football team. Is this disingenuous?

 

Maybe I'm tired of being alone and no girls want to date me because I'm a boring nerd. So instead of hanging out with a nerd crowd, I join the running club so I can get in shape and meet more women. Is this also disingenuous?

 

At what point does changing your life become disingenuous?

 

This seems to me to be a very fluid spectrum, and it seems like the goal posts are rather arbitrarily being applied according to, well, according to whatever the hell criteria you want

 

Only go so far on the spectrum, and you're okay, oops, you ticked over into the "bad" side of the spectrum, oh, you're such a bad person now! Hm. How about we cut the bullshit and realize it's the same fundamental action.

Question intent, both in yourself and in others.

 

Yes, the nature of a "spectrum" is such that granular distinctions are arbitrary, but the distinction between red & blue is quite apparent to the normal human eye.

 

Buying a girl a drink because you'd like to talk to her and slipping a roofie in that drink are NOT the same fundamental action, are they? In part, this thread is (or quickly morphed into) one of both integrity and free-will. One should strive to respect both one's self and others, always.

 

Moving the goalposts closer and closer until they seem to blur and then claiming there are no real goalposts is the wrong approach. Instead, if the distinction isn't clear, nudge the goalposts farther apart until the distinction becomes clear and then use your best judgment to determine where the behavior in question lies. Yes, it is a judgment call but it is not a meaningless one.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I think with the job, as long as your resume' is legit, you aren't being dishonest. Everyone dressed up for an interview. I see some of the dating scene (men and women) as being more like talking about jobs and experience you've never actually had .

 

Well, I'm sure that does happen. Not anything I do and I don't think that's anything I ever suggested

 

What about selectively editing my resume?

 

I wouldn't tell a girl upfront that I've been LARPing. She'd think that's lame and gross. (Well, I might, if I was doing so ironically and if it come up naturally in a humorous way in the conversation.) But, if I told her about it after 3 months of a relationship when she already knows and likes me, well that's very different. She might overlook it, think it's cute, or funny, or even join in (because she likes me otherwise).

 

People always put their "best foot forward."

 

I don't think it's inherently dishonest.

 

When you interview for a job, you put one foot forward. When you meet a new friend, your other foot. When a new (potential) lover, you put the third foot forward.

 

[Aetherous]

because guys who get laid a lot naturally don't do it through technique, they do it because they have that inner self confidence, that belief in themselves that reflects off them onto the people around them.

 

You'd be very surprised. In my experience with them, the guys who appear (and even put themselves out there) as naturals, have absolutely learned from others. They basically speak casually among themselves about the subject and gain second hand experience that way, give each other very clear tips, as well as coach each other in situations that are currently happening...it's not like learning pick up stuff, it's just friendship with people who know...sometimes the way of getting women is taught from older family member to younger family member. Sometimes you just get into the right group of friends and acquaintances and they kind of informally initiate you into what they know about it all. Honestly, I've peeked behind the curtain (talked to guys who got laid like every other night in college, who I became friends with) and from that experience, I think that no one is a natural.

[Brian]

 

<snip>

Have we all figured out how to pickup women yet?

Not by the topknot. Despite caveman movies to the contrary, this just makes them mad.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I heard being rich works :/

 

You also have to be attractive to pull this one off though, AND have a half decent personality...

 

There is this guy I know... he owns several properties and likes to remind me of it, often . So a couple of years back he buys this new car, a custom colour mercedes suv. Knowing he never leaves the city, I asked him how come you bought this car in particular? "To get women of course". He also joined some local club for millionaires only.

 

He also bought an actual Rolex watch (you can tell the real ones because they weigh like 5lbs!) for the same purpose. He also dresses well when he goes out.

 

I'm sure everyone knows the one friend/acquaintance who is just always single, like for a decade or few? That's him.

 

In his case it is mostly due to his personality. He's nice and all for the first while... He would let me stay over when I visited the city when I was out of town, in trade for computer repair.... The first day, we got along great! Day 2, I would start to make excuses about why I needed to head back home earlier than expected. He was *that* difficult to be around!

 

Well he's part of the magic community, so quite a few of my social circle know him... he's been asked to leave a few meetups (due to being too preachy and hard headed).

 

He has asked every single one of us women out.... (he was respectful about it each time at least).

 

He's alright looking, highly intelligent, and even has some good sense about him, with some areas of his life lol.

 

His getting the car thing did not improve his dating life at all (unfortunately, as we all did want to see him do well).

 

So here is the funny thing, he did eventually find a girlfriend!! We were all so thrilled! (meant he'd stop phoning the rest of us lolol). But the funny bit is, she was the sort who didn't care about money at all, rode a bicycle, didn't really like material possessions and was really down to earth! (though after they dated for awhile she did call him a cheapskate for making her pay more than her half a couple of times). We all got to know his new girlfriend (she's really nice), and she is most definitely not the going after money type. She apparently IS the really patient type though .

 

It lasted about a year! Then she moved out. PS her personality may be in the upper numbers, but the purely physical appearance, more like just average.

 

We do all hope he finds another though.

 

Oh that reminds me, they did get back together for a bit, until she was home alone one day and a prostitute that he saw regularly while they were dating called and left a message.... oops. That ended that. (yes they were regularly sexually active).

 

Perhaps I should send him some PUA vids...

[Sloppy Zhang]

The problem with 'nice guy' is it's often used as a euphemism for 'shy. no self-confidence, passive aggressive' This guy doesn't sound like any of that, just a genuinely nice person. Which ties back into what was being discussed earlier: PUA don't understand that it isn't asshole-ish behavior that attracts women (necessarily, some women will be drawn to men who treat them badly due to their own emotional issues) but the confidence behind it. If you can attain that deep seated confidence you can have the benefits without acting like an asshole, but instead they just adopt the superficial asshole-ish behavior, which will fool enough people to get them laid in the short term (which is fine if thats all they want i guess) but isn't going to lead to any kind of long term satisfaction because you can't maintain a facade forever.

 

Except it's not "just confidence."

 

Women (and to a certain extent this does vary with age, social class, etc) process information and conversations differently. Some guys intuitively pick this up as they age and interact with more women. Others do not (because they don't interact with women, or they never pick up the social cues).

 

I know plenty of guys with absolute confidence, they meet girls all the time, go on a lot of dates... and never make it past the second or third date, or always wind up getting "friendzoned" because they treat the girl like they treat anyone else. They don't realize that you gotta treat a girl a little different when you want to move into relationship territory.

[Aeran]

You'd be very surprised. In my experience with them, the guys who appear (and even put themselves out there) as naturals, have absolutely learned from others. They basically speak casually among themselves about the subject and gain second hand experience that way, give each other very clear tips, as well as coach each other in situations that are currently happening...it's not like learning pick up stuff, it's just friendship with people who know...sometimes the way of getting women is taught from older family member to younger family member. Sometimes you just get into the right group of friends and acquaintances and they kind of informally initiate you into what they know about it all. Honestly, I've peeked behind the curtain (talked to guys who got laid like every other night in college, who I became friends with) and from that experience, I think that no one is a natural.

 

There's a huge difference between giving a bit of situational advice and the total reconstruction of behavior that PUA types do. Obviously guys talk about that stuff between eachother and give advice on situations, but they don't obsess over it, turn it into a hobby or an identity, spend hours scouring the internet, doing that shit, by definition, isn't 'alpha.' If you have to force yourself to be something, you aren't really that thing.

[Brian]

 

BTW, in America, its tax deductible because its considered a donation to a religious institution.

 

So its actually free.

 

 

(Because I'm a bit of a pedant, however, I have to point out that it is a deduction rather than a credit so it reduces your liability rather than coming straight off the top. Plus you'd have to subtract the value of any benefit received...)

 

[Sloppy Zhang]

And that's all awesome stuff. I'm not disagreeing with any of that, changing posture, becoming fit, dressing better, etc. isn't fake, it's just an enhancement of the self. I'm 100% behind that stuff.

 

It's when you start trying to use technical lingo to break down the way people act in an attempt to mimic what you think will get you sex that I take an issue, because guys who get laid a lot naturally don't do it through technique, they do it because they have that inner self confidence, that belief in themselves that reflects off them onto the people around them. That's what needs to be cultivated, not figuring out when is the right time to insult a girl in a conversation or what to pretend to like to seem interesting.

 

Be the best version of yourself, not a low quality imitation of someone else. When you become that, you won't need the lingo or the fakery or the props because you'll draw the things you want in life to you by merit of knowing that you deserve them.

 

This "natural" process doesn't always happen, for a variety of reasons.

 

A person might not be good at picking up social cues.

 

More likely than not, they just weren't in a position to learn.

 

I wrote before about athletes, and how athletes (especially in school) are SURROUNDED by girls (who actively pursue athletes). When you are pursued by girls constantly since elementary/middle school, when you continuously interact with girls, you, well, learn how to do it.

 

Yeah, you gain "confidence," the self assuredness that girls want to talk to you. But you also learn how girls behave differently than boys, and how they develop into women differently than men. And you tailor your approach.

 

You don't *think* about it, because it *just happens.* When asked "why are you so good with women?" they say "I don't know... just go for it."

 

Meanwhile, if you have little mathlete junior who only hangs out with boys up until high school or college, guess what? He doesn't know how to talk to girls/women as naturally as the guy who's been surrounded by girls/women since he was 12.

 

So he has to learn.

 

That doesn't make him less genuine. It doesn't make him fake. For a while, it makes him mechanical. But learning new ways of communicating is always mechanical at first. Hell, qigong is mechanical until you learn it and really "feel" it. Then you let go and let the process do its thing.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Well, I'm sure that does happen. Not anything I do and I don't think that's anything I ever suggested

 

What about selectively editing my resume?

 

I wouldn't tell a girl upfront that I've been LARPing. She'd think that's lame and gross. (Well, I might, if I was doing so ironically and if it come up naturally in a humorous way in the conversation.) But, if I told her about it after 3 months of a relationship when she already knows and likes me, well that's very different. She might overlook it, think it's cute, or funny, or even join in (because she likes me otherwise).

 

People always put their "best foot forward."

 

I don't think it's inherently dishonest.

 

When you interview for a job, you put one foot forward. When you meet a new friend, your other foot. When a new (potential) lover, you put the third foot forward.

 

 

Isn't "geek guys being hot" a new *thing* these days? Are you saying that inviting her out for a LARP event wouldn't be the best first date?

 

Unless it's something like a criminal record, or the fact you are married I personally think leaving a few things out is fine for the first month or so...

 

For new jobs and dates, I like to get all that sort of stuff out of the way, so when they do find out later they don't have a change of heart, but that's just my odd personal quirk. The magic thing I tend to cover right away (and even do so when looking for a place to live!) I do know many people who never tell their employer though, as some people fire them for such things . I also know some folks who have never told their wife/husband!!!

 

Hold on, how did we get from acting really mean to people to get some, over to fluffing up one's resume and leaving torrid geek interests out when meeting?

[Sloppy Zhang]

There's a huge difference between giving a bit of situational advice and the total reconstruction of behavior that PUA types do. Obviously guys talk about that stuff between eachother and give advice on situations, but they don't obsess over it, turn it into a hobby or an identity, spend hours scouring the internet, doing that shit, by definition, isn't 'alpha.' If you have to force yourself to be something, you aren't really that thing.

 

That's because, in this instance, most of them "got it."

 

If you talk to your buddies in the football team locker room about how to handle this girl you like, it's fairly reasonable you already have had girls approach you/had sex with you. It's fairly reasonable your friends are the same. That you all have lots of male/female friends.

 

However, when you have a guy who's been in computer science school all his life, graduates at 22, never kissed a girl, never dated, never hangs out with girls, suddenly... how does he approach women? Why isn't he as good with women as other guys?

 

That necessarily begs a bit more analysis and yes, "restructure," than the guys who already have most of the ingredients.

 

How is this any different from any other life change? (dieting more, smoking less, drinking less, exercising more, drinking more green tea, going to sleep earlier, etc, even if you don't really "feel like it".

[BaguaKicksAss]

Well really, it's all about how good your Bagua is.

 

Simple fix there..

 

All the women I polled agree!

 

.