spontaneous movement and stillness movement

[bubullo]

hello

 

i practice qigong since 8 or 9 months for medical problems (it's help a lot ) and i have several questions

 

since the start i have experienced spontaneous movement

 

usually i breath a little (sometimes only several seconds) and it start or during zhang zhuang

 

no matter how well i close the session the movements can restart later

 

if i want i can ignore it (i just feel various pressure points)

 

is it the same process than stilness movement ( i have the book of michael lomax and i wait for his dvd)?

 

in the book the closing process is very interresting and i try to follow it but if i have a brief moment of this movement during the day (not in a session) it is very long to close and in fact totally impractible ( in a car or in the street)

 

i try to not giving too much impoortance to this phenomenes but i'd like to be sure that i dont let qi stagnation

 

i suppose i'm not alone to experiment this how do you deal with this ?

 

thanks

[Leif]

no matter how well i close the session the movements can restart later

 

closing the session is not to prevent spontaneous movements, I'd say it's partially to also help release old stagnations and mainly to prevent creating new stagnations

with practice your old issues are resurfacing and you are also becoming more sensitive so that you might see spontaneous movements even during the day

at least that's from my little experience, though I don't do S-M (yet)

 

I suggest to post more details about your practice, ie. how much time you spend exercising and on which qigong exercises, it's likely you'll receive more fine-tuned replies from experienced practitioners.

[soaring crane]

 

 

since the start i have experienced spontaneous movement

 

Hi

 

Can you post some details about the movement? What actually happens?

[寒月 Hanyue]

Co-incidence?

 

I recently read something pertinent about this, by a SM-Neigong teacher. I also had Friend PM me about something similar (sorry I haven't got back to you yet mate).

 

[i don't speak for Michael, or the system, so take my posts for what they are.]

 

The appearance of movement in SM neigong is due to a specific thing, it does not refer simply to any movements. This is what makes it different to many of the methods taught usually under a variation of zifa qigong (spontaneous qigong). That is also not to say that the arising external movements within SM neigong cannot occur in other neigong. It is a recognition of a neigon phenomena. The difference between SM neigong an dother neigong is the lineage.

 

Shou gong 收功, is usually translated as 'closing practice' however 'shou' can mean; to accept / to collect / to put away / to restrain / to stop. This method is intended to help you shift back from practice to normal functioning. Have the intent for the movements to stop, cease, calm down. If later on they start up again, use the intent again.

 

Best,

Edited January 4, 2014 by snowmonki

[bubullo]

hi

 

i practice zhan zhang minimum one 30 45 mn session sometimes 3 or 4 sessions

 

i learn bagua walking too and i have a training in yang taichi with the qigong (i don't pracice the form alot but i practice the qigongset)

 

the spontaneous movement involve a lot of arms mouvement in high position (45° or more) sometimes i rest on the toes

a lot of circle of the hand on front of me (hands face the floor)

 

sometimes i strech back my arms and rest a moment

 

regulary i have only one arm in action sometimes the second make the same movements after but not always

 

a lot of 180° turning (face look at 180°)

 

pelvis rotation

 

walking (not really but if i initiate clearly the walking become spontanous)

 

but i clearly see now that i can really easely change the nature and speed of movement (it's really hard to stay in a neutral mind)

 

sometimes it is the breathing who is in game like a big resistance (but moving) so i must breath really slowly (if i don't want this i can restart a normal breathing )

 

sensation of mouvement pressure inside on top of the belly sometimes it last several days (before it was in the chest but no more it was a bit of stress when it lasted several days without stopping)

 

i have not a good conscious my body it is better slowly but i know i have a really long road i'm not a guy really relaxed too ( i think i have tried all the nchimical ways to escape the world but slowly this urge fade and in fact if i smoke just a little of weeds the spontaneous movements are really hard control i must do it or lying a moment ( and i have the breathing pattern who start)

 

i know this movements are not really important i just want to havre some good fundations for my health i have 40 year old and several years of fybromalgic syndrom, ( but( it is really really better now and i don't take medication anymore ) and i really like to enter the inner alchimy practice and martial work ( i see so much benefits in my life....but strange days too..to be honnest .i'd like to be buddha too! but i think this is relatively normal in the start of the practice)

 

thank you for your advice and excuse me for my terrible english

 

 

best regards

best

[bubullo]

Co-incidence?

 

I recently read something pertinent about this, by a SM-Neigong teacher. I also had Friend PM me about something similar (sorry I haven't got back to you yet mate).

 

The appearance of movement in SM neigong is due to a specific thing, it does not refer simply to any movements. This is what makes it different to many of the methods taught usually under a variation of zifa qigong (spontaneous qigong). That is also not to say that the arising external movements within SM neigong cannot occur in other neigong. It is a recognition of a neigon phenomena. The difference between SM neigong an dother neigong is the lineage.

 

Shou gong 收功, is usually translated as 'closing practice' however 'shou' can mean; to accept / to collect / to put away / to restrain / to stop. This method is intended to help you shift back from practice to normal functioning. Have the intent for the movements to stop, cease, calm down. If later on they start up again, use the intent again.

 

Best,

ok thanks

 

i must admit my intent is not always clear

 

so my spontaneous movement doesn't give me the same things than the stillness movement

 

the system of michael lomax need a "gift" by an instructor ?

[寒月 Hanyue]

ok thanks

 

i must admit my intent is not always clear

 

so my spontaneous movement doesn't give me the same things than the stillness movement

 

the system of michael lomax need a "gift" by an instructor ?

 

I don't speak for Michael, or the system, so take my posts for what they are [previous post edited accordingly].

 

As I understand it, the emergence of the external movements in SM neigong come from particular phenomena occuring in the energy body/dantian. I'm trying to avoid the Chinese terms. Different people will reach this at different times, and it is usually considered something that takes a while to cultivate, unless of course a teacher helps. This is why Michael writes of helping create and light peoples dantians.

 

Best,

[bubullo]

ok

thanks a lot

i read the forum since several months and it is really nice to have all this infos

best

[JohnC]

ok

thanks a lot

i read the forum since several months and it is really nice to have all this infos

best

I've been practicing for... 2.5 years now, and some sessions I have zero movement. Sometimes I'm very physically active.

 

I'm sure Lomax will chime in shortly though.

 

John

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

I often experience spontaneous movements very like those described above.

 

They typically form part of my meditations.

 

I don't have a lineage or teacher, I just make it up as I go along.

 

But it works somehow.

 

Don't ask me how.

 

An absolute host of strange things started occurring to me after my event.

 

I danced the dance of Shiva.

 

It was the strangest thing.

...

[johndoe2012]

Light from the teacher can minimize confusion.

[Jetsun]

I have heard from a different lineage that spontaneous movements can come by tension being released from the nervous system, which could be emotional energy or trauma or anything held in the body, then when there is real deep relaxation the energy is finally allowed to move out which can move the body in release naturally when the holding is relaxed. Whereas my understanding of Stillness Movement is that the movement is a lot to do with the lighting of the dan tien

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

I have heard from a different lineage that spontaneous movements can come by tension being released from the nervous system, which could be emotional energy or trauma or anything held in the body(.)

 

I am sure there is some truth to that.

 

When the energy first took control of me I was like a rag doll with my limbs being thrown about at odd angles, my joints popping and crackling, strange hand gestures and contortions of balance, a dance too, spinning and turning.

 

When it started to happen I thought "I dance the dance of Shiva!"

 

Although it wasn't exactly me doing the dancing.

 

Yes, in the early stage it was clearly connected to healing of psychological trauma, blockages and so on.

 

Don't forget I had a vision of a golden angelic thing descending towards my head, whilst energy shot up my spine, after which my head caught fire.

 

This event totally changed me.

 

Yet most of the time I feel just the same as before.

 

I'd like to say its no big deal.

 

Kinda screwed up my life to be honest.

...

Edited January 5, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[Ya Mu]

OP,

 

What snowmonki said about will is good.

 

I do the "closing" morning and night right before bed in addition to after a sitting. As one poster said, it helps remove stagnations.

 

Stillness-Movement is its own thing and is not the same as "spontaneous movement" practices. It has to do with vibration and resonance and harmony with the higher level vibrations. The distance class is one way to receive Light to help achieve resonance with the higher level vibrations.

 

I think the practice of the Gift of Tao could help you. If you ordered a DVD and have not yet received it please email me as all existing orders up to Thursday of this week have shipped.

 

I think all "spontaneous movement" practices, whether dance or other, have the potential to help the body clear stagnations. I also think that a person should be extremely careful when just making stuff up about energetics as it is easy to believe in illusions and it is easy to cause the very stagnations we would like to clear if we are attempting practices on our own.

[Friend]

ok thanks

 

i must admit my intent is not always clear

 

so my spontaneous movement doesn't give me the same things than the stillness movement

 

the system of michael lomax need a "gift" by an instructor ?

What you expirience is ordinary Zifa Gong.

Ordinary Zifa Gong is re-adjusting and base for releasing impulses.

With further practise the Zifa Gong will and should get less else

you need to look if you supress movements or emotion because

you are strive to an ideal behaviour out of believe.

 

This whenever for example the believe strife to have to be friendly to others

while one internal in real is jealous, in fury or otherwise.

This impulse remain as it was just surpressed build up a blockage.

Whenever one allow and is relaxed the body will try to get rid of them.

Mostly this happen in sleep where one move a lot around without knowing.

 

In practise of stationary exercise the Zifa is sealed to build up pressure

mostly rely one pulsation of heart, of breathing and the energy.

When the settings are right the internal movement is breaking through the blockage

causing external movement as re-adjustment.

 

Zifa can also caused by movement when it is used like when one sitting on a swing.

In the right moment one add motion and then not do anything.

 

In your case is whatever occurs is not of any importance to give much attention.

The important point is that they had happen and the movements are not been surpressed

and neither do one want this to happen and the safety of your body is ensured.

Things are so that the system need to be cleared out and free to flow has

to be established. Something that has no resistance can not been moved as there is no substance.

One has the flow still inside when one practise.

 

For yourself you can say that you grasp with your inner wisdom the exercise

but at the same time to you not be attached to the happening of spontaneus reaction.

A small advice as I am being only a student in this arts is to exercise until the reaction is gone

for the session with a period of stillness.

 

Closing is very important as Snowmonki already told and this varies with the system.

A very easy method is to stand neutral and tell yourself that the exercise is done for now

and relax and slowly getting aware of the surrounding.

 

Else for closing martial arts have the same.

Look for the closing in Tai Chi or in Wing Chun (not often the clothing is clear but

from the fist at the side of the chest having a pushing motion down.)

Other Qigong have placing their hand on the dantien and relax for moments on it.

Others are rubbing the the area.

 

As for Stillnessmovement it is its own lineage.

It provides sort of Qi is calling Light which is huge amount one can work with.

Which is more clear when one do the Gift of Tao where one emphasize on external work

on external Qi and the closing is getting back back from the enviroment by the motion "Salute to Master Wang"

as the expansion may lead to feeling a bit cold if not closed (such for me).

 

It is the reason of this huge amount of energy that this system work fast beside of the quality of the Light which itself

is raise its vibration (so I expirience it as the quality of Qi changes with increase time of effort in practise)

which hit the blockages more obviously in the beginning.

It is to remember that the subtle energy is greater in amount than in normal Qigong so it is neither hindered by time

and space, the rhythm between heaven and earth. In practise the subtle energyfield expands because of its nature

to sizes other systems can not comprehend. Deep into earth and high up to the sky.

 

It is not limited on the physical body to touch natural ground (but well all measurement are adding to the success)

neither one has to avoid adult activity, strong winds and thunder, practise at specific time, direction or food but

well it fills Qigong where one has not receive a lineage for.

 

There is another element in Stillnessmovement as an lineage.

There is an transmission of energetic based information which acorrding of the lineage

result after end of the period of chaotic movements leads to spontaneus but movements with

order. Here the body is start to cultivate to the goal the lineage is made for by following the route

based on the energy information.

 

Without the information one is thrown back to the period of the beginnings when Zifa was found

by standing in the natural stance the Wu Chi Posture.

From here everything could happen after the chaotic movements and mistakes can happen.

The transmission of a system has an auto-adjustment and navigator system to avoid mistakes.

Receiving the lineage is like receiving all the energy memory for the system from the ancestors

of the lineage and is not on one own as a pioneer. The efforts are passed over.

The ancestors created not the short cut but they have blueprint for more effictive vehicle.

(In the past by foot, then horse, then cars and then airplanes.)

 

Each generation of teachers are try to refine or at least past over as much to the next generation.

At times the practise to maintain the quality and the effort to teach is so high that one can not

technical teach many people to become successor but only for support in their present incarnation.

(Therefor the 'Gift' as you called).

 

This is the ordinary Zifa can not do.

The ordinary Zifa is bound to the system which caused it and may start at zero like those who

found the Zifa with nobody to explain it from your own system, figuring it out if their own understanding and experiments.

Ordinary Zifa happens for average sensitive people only after periods of time in static exercise as Zhan Zhuang.

While sensitive people are grasping it more easier as they surrender to the impulses instead of fighting.

 

As well some system are avoid Zifa at all cost because their own energy signature is disrupted by Zifa

as the goal is to build strong pressure which would be lost by Zifa.

These mention systems also said to move slow after a practise, some said that a coating is around the

body and one need a bit time after that it absorb into the body.

Therefore other styles have other rules.

 

-------

[Harmonious Emptiness]

How about trying to focus the energy that causes the movements into the micro-cosmic orbit - slowing the breath and using it as sort of a regulator for the path of the energy. Would this not allow the energy to continue moving while calming the external expressions of it?

[Friend]

How about trying to focus the energy that causes the movements into the micro-cosmic orbit - slowing the breath and using it as sort of a regulator for the path of the energy. Would this not allow the energy to continue moving while calming the external expressions of it?

You mean to use the purpose of the Ren and Du as storage of extra energy

and/ or to open the path the MCO which would redirect the energy from the external movements?

 

Actually one wants the system become free and

the engage of the mind is making the process less fast.

Qi is actually is faster than commentary mind.

 

When one read a text and repeat the words loud in the head

the eyes will focus on the words while without one can run over the line,

grasping the meaning but not eventually remember the word.

 

There is a way to internalize the external movement.

It is halfway to control the outside and allow more on the inside.

This will help in general all system internal to unfold.

Also one can use the mind to set impulse and Zifa is also reacting

on calming intent.

 

I found it is good to let the external movements does what is does

as things will and do regulate itself.

The good thing is one actually let the things happen as they should.

 

One of my teacher said that that MCO is something

he not teached until he found that it seems to benifit the health

and the progress of practise.

Prior this he teached only the Macrocosmicorbit.

 

In Stillnessmovement all Orbits are open at the same time

without involvement of mind control.

Actually in this art one can take it easy.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

You mean to use the purpose of the Ren and Du as storage of extra energy

and/ or to open the path the MCO which would redirect the energy from the external movements?

 

just to direct the energy differently than in (external) bodily movement. There is an element of allowing the MCO to happen when the energy is strong. Sort of like the rudder-person on a sail boat in calm winds, just nudging the current with effortless intent.

 

The OP said there were times the movements were problematic during other tasks.

 

Part of this would be grounding the energy in the dantien, too. Circulating, and grounding, and circulating and grounding.

 

 

[note: I'm just speaking from general chi gung theory and practice]

Edited January 6, 2014 by Harmonious Emptiness

[dawei]

just to direct the energy differently than in (external) bodily movement. There is an element of allowing the MCO to happen when the energy is strong. Sort of like the rudder-person on a sail boat in calm winds, just nudging the current with effortless intent.

 

 

The OP said there were times the movements were problematic during other tasks.

 

Part of this would be grounding the energy in the dantien, too. Circulating, and grounding, and circulating and grounding.

 

 

[note: I'm just speaking from general chi gung theory and practice]

 

I see your point...

 

But IMO, I would not re-direct spontaneous or stillness energy... particularly on closing.

 

Once it arises for whatever reason, it already has it's path...

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Okay, I think I misunderstood the question.

 

I understood:

 

"if i have a brief moment of this movement during the day (not in a session) it is very long to close and in fact totally impractible ( in a car or in the street)"

 

to mean that the movements were impairing what he was doing, but I guess the question was just "how to close afterwards" when closing is difficult.

 

I won't make an uneducated guess on that, though Michael did say that he does the closing routine at the beginning and end of the day - so I guess, from that, that you can let the movements spontaneously arise throughout the day and just do a "daily closing." I don't know though. I don't have direct experience with the lineage, outside of the DVDs.

[Brian]

It is important to note, I think, that the OP is NOT talking about motions which arise from or during the practice of Stillness-Movement neigong. The book has been read and the first DVD ordered but the system is not yet being practiced

[Ya Mu]

Okay, I think I misunderstood the question.

 

I understood:

 

"if i have a brief moment of this movement during the day (not in a session) it is very long to close and in fact totally impractible ( in a car or in the street)"

 

to mean that the movements were impairing what he was doing, but I guess the question was just "how to close afterwards" when closing is difficult.

 

I won't make an uneducated guess on that, though Michael did say that he does the closing routine at the beginning and end of the day - so I guess, from that, that you can let the movements spontaneously arise throughout the day and just do a "daily closing." I don't know though. I don't have direct experience with the lineage, outside of the DVDs.

I think what he was asking was "that the movements were impairing what he was doing" but that the closing I list in A Light Warrior's Guide is impractical to do when doing tasks like driving a car.

 

So I do believe we are speaking of 2 or 3 different things here.

The closing we do in Stillness-Movement is for many reasons but "stopping the movement" is not a main priority of the "closing". It has already been pointed out about using "will". In Stillness-Movement we ALLOW versus having a movement that controls us so this type of thing as a movement coming out of nowhere would seldom happen. Yes, sometimes I feel the need to move in a particular manner in sensing the energy but it is usually expressed more as a "I need to go outside and do a particular Gift of the Tao Move - now). When I "allow" when doing the sitting or standing then the energy will move the body in a manner that is needed at the moment in the moment. And yes, I can "allow" while sitting here and typing this message, and indeed am doing Stillness-Movement at the moment, and it is not interfering with my typing speed or accuracy and I could stop doing it at any time I wish to.

 

The spontaneous movement and Stillness-Movement are two different things. (edit: I see while I had this window open Brian posted that we were speaking of two different things).

 

Really, even though someone observing may think the two type of movement are similar, they only share a very few common objectives such as loosening and removing stagnations. I mentioned doing our "closing" twice a day because I think it could help with most any type of qigong and is really a stand-alone type of qigong in itself. And the main purpose as a stand alone qigong would be to open or help keep open the channels and help remove stagnations induced by most causes. In this aspect I think that the published "closing" could be utilized by anyone whether they do qigong or not.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Ya Mu

[Andrei]

I am not affiliated in any way with the protagonists of these videos, and I don't want to derail the discussion but this is very interesting for the whole community here:

 

http://youtu.be/bTvp9NDeZGM

 

http://youtu.be/b764zXShB7s

[bubullo]

thanks

a lot of things are more clear

effectively i really see that the mind can trick the experience and start to imagine a lot of things

there is a potential to focalise on a movement too and it's not good

really hard by moments to not be trapped by this things and just follow the things but clearly i can observe some benefits

i see the origin is too much tensions too and this movement alleviate it (the most apparent...certainly the road is long)

i wait for the gift of the tao , i will make the close describe in light warrior morning and night and i will see (the close alleviate some weird sensations)

i practice a little of taichi with some basic qigong and a lot of standing and walking and just more attention in the course of the day

really wonderful practices really open my eyes i couldn't think it was like that...some days are a little...strange....but it's fantastic if i look 9 months back....and the boredom depression

really thank you for your advices and explaination

best

[Master of no significance]

Hi all, I opened up a thread but noone replied so I thought I ask directly those who engage in these practices:

Anyone practices pontaneous/ZifaGong with Music?

What Kind of Music do you "use/recommend"?

Do you focus your choice on spiritual qualities ("aura", "fragrance", "channeling", "peacefulness" ....) activating rhythm, relaxing mood, enhancing fluidity or hat else?

Thanks

(sorry to bother you on several Threads, i am done NOW ;-)