Mal Posted January 8, 2014 ´¯`°¤.¸.¤.¸.¤°´¯`´¯`°¤.¸.¤.¸.¤°´¯`´¯`°¤.¸.¤.¸.¤°´¯` We "hear" the "I want to say this!" It's loud and obvious. And as long as it's not insulting we help them say it. It's a discussion board after all But the "I don't want to listen" The quiet yin to the loud yang. The comments like, "Please don't continue" "I'd rather talk about" "I'm not interested in" how do they get what they want? What if we trialled :- Directed Discussion a forum where posts can be moved at the thread creators request. Should work like this (or not - hence the trial) Poster A makes a thread B replies in thread I dont agree A replies I understand you dont agree but please stop disagreeing or your posts will be moved B replies I still dont agree A reports that post, with a link to the original request for poster B to stop B's post is moved by staff into its own thread (This is the same as what stewards can do with requesting posts be moved) ´¯`°¤.¸.¤.¸.¤°´¯`´¯`°¤.¸.¤.¸.¤°´¯`´¯`°¤.¸.¤.¸.¤°´¯` The aim of this is to attempt to reinforce "Treat other members with respect." Now after the initial joy of "At last I can stop B hijacking my threads I will be moving everything they posts" I hope this will become :- At TTB A and B just cant agree. B wants to follow A and keep arguing. A can let B do that (quite a few people do enjoy a flame war I mean a 70 page discussion) and as long as it doesnt devolve into insults its all good. A can put B on ignore Now A can also start a Directed Discussion. If/when B posts A can say please leave me alone, post in another thread. If it's the issue (more than the arguing about it) B can indeed create their own thread and present their view, or create a PPF, or go offsite and create an entire web site. But B also knows that any further post in A's thread in directed discussion will be moved. So its pointless trying to keep the argument going, or close down / monopolise discussion within that thread. Poster A's thread will either keep going or fall down the board depending on if anyone is interested in having a conversation. Overtime the Directed Discussion forum will show if it's always poster B that is being asked not to reply from several different thread creators. Alternatively if Poster A's thread is :- Poster A makes a thread B replies in thread - this is rubbish A please don't reply again or your posts will be moved C replies in thread - this is rubbish A please don't reply again or your posts will be moved D replies in thread - this is rubbish A please don't reply again or your posts will be moved E replies in thread - this is rubbish A please don't reply again or your posts will be moved ... X replies in thread - this is rubbish A please don't reply again or your posts will be moved A's thread doesn't have anyone to talk to, a list of the people they dont want to talk to, and the created thread has all the replies (and probably a conversation about why poster A is wrong) ´¯`°¤.¸.¤.¸.¤°´¯`´¯`°¤.¸.¤.¸.¤°´¯`´¯`°¤.¸.¤.¸.¤°´¯` If this works out I see it having great potential as a person powered search engine if someone is looking for a specific answer at TTB. "How do you find the answer you are looking for? Post a thread in Directed Discussion at TTB" Eg Poster A How do I X B you do this C you do that A I'm interested in trying this C Don't do it that is better A I'm going to try this, if you keep posting about that I'll have to ask for the posts to be moved Options C well ok you can try this by doing Or C no it has to be that (A reports C's post and it is moved by staff so that discussion can continue about this rather than that) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunder_Gooch Posted January 8, 2014 They get what they want by using their personal practice forum to maintain control over a discussion, that is precisely why personal practice forums exist. If this goes into effect all it will do is turn the public forums into glorified personal practice forums, where the original poster get's to direct the flow of the thread. How about: If a thread becomes an eyesore toss it into the pit, if it continues to degrade... lock it. Suggest the original poster use their personal practice forum to maintain control if that is what they want. I have a feeling this is going to stretch staff resources to the limit splitting threads nonstop. Maybe not though, if this goes into effect let me know I will test it out with a public pro mo pai anti everything else thread and see how many times you guys have to split the discussion up into separate discussions lol. ´¯`°¤.¸.¤.¸.¤°´¯`´¯`°¤.¸.¤.¸.¤°´¯`´¯`°¤.¸.¤.¸.¤°´¯` We "hear" the "I want to say this!" It's loud and obvious. And as long as it's not insulting we help them say it. It's a discussion board after all But the "I don't want to listen" The quiet yin to the loud yang. The comments like, "Please don't continue" "I'd rather talk about" "I'm not interested in" how do they get what they want? What if we trialled :- Directed Discussion a forum where posts can be moved at the thread creators request. Should work like this (or not - hence the trial) Poster A makes a thread B replies in thread I dont agree A replies I understand you dont agree but please stop disagreeing or your posts will be moved B replies I still dont agree A reports that post, with a link to the original request for poster B to stop B's post is moved by staff into its own thread (This is the same as what stewards can do with requesting posts be moved) ´¯`°¤.¸.¤.¸.¤°´¯`´¯`°¤.¸.¤.¸.¤°´¯`´¯`°¤.¸.¤.¸.¤°´¯` The aim of this is to attempt to reinforce "Treat other members with respect." Now after the initial joy of "At last I can stop B hijacking my threads I will be moving everything they posts" I hope this will become :- At TTB A and B just cant agree. B wants to follow A and keep arguing. A can let B do that (quite a few people do enjoy a flame war I mean a 70 page discussion) and as long as it doesnt devolve into insults its all good. A can put B on ignore Now A can also start a Directed Discussion. If/when B posts A can say please leave me alone, post in another thread. If it's the issue (more than the arguing about it) B can indeed create their own thread and present their view, or create a PPF, or go offsite and create an entire web site. But B also knows that any further post in A's thread in directed discussion will be moved. So its pointless trying to keep the argument going, or close down / monopolise discussion within that thread. Poster A's thread will either keep going or fall down the board depending on if anyone is interested in having a conversation. Overtime the Directed Discussion forum will show if it's always poster B that is being asked not to reply from several different thread creators. Alternatively if Poster A's thread is :- Poster A makes a thread B replies in thread - this is rubbish A please don't reply again or your posts will be moved C replies in thread - this is rubbish A please don't reply again or your posts will be moved D replies in thread - this is rubbish A please don't reply again or your posts will be moved E replies in thread - this is rubbish A please don't reply again or your posts will be moved ... X replies in thread - this is rubbish A please don't reply again or your posts will be moved A's thread doesn't have anyone to talk to, a list of the people they dont want to talk to, and the created thread has all the replies (and probably a conversation about why poster A is wrong) ´¯`°¤.¸.¤.¸.¤°´¯`´¯`°¤.¸.¤.¸.¤°´¯`´¯`°¤.¸.¤.¸.¤°´¯` If this works out I see it having great potential as a person powered search engine if someone is looking for a specific answer at TTB. "How do you find the answer you are looking for? Post a thread in Directed Discussion at TTB" Eg Poster A How do I X B you do this C you do that A I'm interested in trying this C Don't do it that is better A I'm going to try this, if you keep posting about that I'll have to ask for the posts to be moved Options C well ok you can try this by doing Or C no it has to be that (A reports C's post and it is moved by staff so that discussion can continue about this rather than that) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted January 8, 2014 They get what they want by using their personal practice forum to maintain control over a discussion, that is precisely why personal practice forums exist. If this goes into effect all it will do is turn the public forums into glorified personal practice forums, where the original poster get's to direct the flow of the thread. How about: If a thread becomes an eyesore toss it into the pit, if it continues to degrade... lock it. Suggest the original poster use their personal practice forum to maintain control if that is what they want. I have a feeling this is going to stretch staff resources to the limit splitting threads nonstop. Maybe not though, if this goes into effect let me know I will test it out with a public pro mo pai anti everything else thread and see how many times you guys have to split the discussion up into separate discussions lol. Yeah well anytime I have to split one of your threads, there will be a fee, 15 mins of the blue qi thing we discussed... ROFL Now other members..... yeah 1 post split per day maybe? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted January 8, 2014 Hmmm, I sort of liked the idea. See I have these couple of threads I want to start, and I know a few members want to join in on them as well, but we all know we will get trolled and/or trashed on big time for such threads, so I have never started them. Guess I could do it in my PPF, but no one reads though. Though you do have some good points.... Thunder.... thunder... THUNDER GOOCH! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 8, 2014 I don't like the idea. Y'all expected a response similar to that from me, didn't you? Ever wonder why no one reads PPF's? Maybe it's because people don't like to be told what they can and cannot say? That is why I stopped reading PPF's. If I say something and another person deletes what I said then I figure they are not interested in my input so why should I even consider what they have said? The board already has too many rules. The more rules you have the more criminals there will be. Taoism allows for natural flow; Confucianism directs the flow. We are TaoBums, not ConfusedBums. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunder_Gooch Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) The only major effect from this that I can see is forcing threads to become split and fragmented, with 10 threads about the same discussion, all referencing each other and disagreeing with the other ones because disagreement isn't allowed in any of them. Edited January 8, 2014 by Thunder_Gooch 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted January 8, 2014 I don't like the idea. Y'all expected a response similar to that from me, didn't you? Ever wonder why no one reads PPF's? Maybe it's because people don't like to be told what they can and cannot say? That is why I stopped reading PPF's. If I say something and another person deletes what I said then I figure they are not interested in my input so why should I even consider what they have said? The board already has too many rules. The more rules you have the more criminals there will be. Taoism allows for natural flow; Confucianism directs the flow. We are TaoBums, not ConfusedBums. Hey I've never deleted one of your posts in MY PPF . Feel free to stop by anytime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 8, 2014 Hey I've never deleted one of your posts in MY PPF . Feel free to stop by anytime. I wasn't referring to any one person. I have had two of my posts deleted by people "with power", one in a PPF and one in an open-forum thread. Believe me, I have been inspired to look at some of the PPF's of our members, yours included. But I had set standards for myself and had to ignore the inspiration. If I put myself in a situation where someone has personal power over what I say, even though it does not violate the forum rules, then I would be setting myself up for being angered. I'm not here to irritate people and then they "get even" with me, and I am not here to be caused to become angered. If I wanted that I would get married again. Now, true, if I were to make a personal insult I would expect the post to be deleted or at least a request to edit my post so that any personal insult were removed. Anyhow, freedom of speech is exactly that, freedom of speech, as long as it does not violate the rules. And again, the more rules we have the more violators there will be. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted January 8, 2014 Btw, your posts would have been hidden, as we don't ever delete posts, but looks the same to you guys. We have a record of everything though . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cheya Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) I think I like it... although it's a little confusing to follow... Let's see if I got it.... So the OP (aka A) asks a poster not to continue in a given negative/counter vein, but B ignores A's request, and continues to counter post. So A asks mods to remove the second person's posts from the thread. Is B then blocked from the thread or otherwise disciplined if they continue to post negatively in the thread? (By negatively here, I just mean adversely to A's intention in starting the thread, which maybe we could name something like counter-posting) It sounds like the first "counter post" would remain, but others from that poster removed? Then another person might counter post, be asked to refrain, but their original counter post would also remain. So the thread could just be a series of single counter posts from different posters, if the original topic intent didn't draw much affinity, or didn't develop along the lines the OP had in mind. If the OP had no objection to some counter posting, the thread would just wander around. This sounds really good as an alternative to throwing so many threads in the pit and all the splitting, which I think really damages continuity of discussion. And maybe more people would be drawn back into posting, knowing they had some protection/defense/recourse against their thread just going thoroughly awry (from their point of view.) I sure hope someone who has had trouble with this will try it out! Rene posting on De or virtue comes to mind, as a situation like this seems to have driven her entirely off the board, and I miss her input! I'm thinking people who get off on counter-posting are definitely not going to like it! But this sounds like it will be a limited discussion area, so they can just not go there, either to read or post, same way MH avoids PPFs! Yes, I definitely like it. Edited January 8, 2014 by cheya 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mal Posted January 8, 2014 It's interesting that freedom of speech always comes up The idea is to trial this in one forum so like the ppf if that is not your thing you don't have to participate 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 8, 2014 Btw, your posts would have been hidden, as we don't ever delete posts, but looks the same to you guys. We have a record of everything though . One was in a PPF, it was deleted. The other was in open-forum and it was moved. The problem I have with the PPFs is that a person can be putting forth very false information and any attempt to question or correct the information can be deleted leaving only the false information. If I don't read them I don't have to concern myself with all that stuff. I don't even like the idea of hidding or moving posts. That doesn't happen in real life. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 8, 2014 Yes, I definitely like it. I respect your opinion but strongly disagree with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunder_Gooch Posted January 8, 2014 So is this trial in effect now, for instance if I create a mo pai related thread and kindly ask another poster to stop arguing and derailing it, they get moved to their own thread? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 8, 2014 It's interesting that freedom of speech always comes up The idea is to trial this in one forum so like the ppf if that is not your thing you don't have to participate Aren't the PPFs already set up similar to this? It used to be that the PPF owner could delete any post they felt was not in accord with how they wanted "their" thread to flow, if I remember correctly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mal Posted January 8, 2014 Also this isn't set in stone or happening tomorow so feel free to brainstorm positives and negatives I might pinch the term counter posting 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted January 8, 2014 So is this trial in effect now, for instance if I create a mo pai related thread and kindly ask another poster to stop arguing and derailing it, they get moved to their own thread? Thunder_Gooch is seriously bouncing off his seat in anticipation of this one . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mal Posted January 8, 2014 Ppf the owner has total control so yes can delete This is more like what stewards can do with moving posts 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mal Posted January 8, 2014 for instance if I create a mo pai related thread and kindly ask another poster to stop arguing and derailing it, they get moved to their own thread? Yes If we decide it's worth trialing 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 8, 2014 Thunder_Gooch is seriously bouncing off his seat in anticipation of this one . I actually think that this (the PPFs) is a good idea even though I would not care to operate under such conditions (therefore I would continue to not read PPFs). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted January 8, 2014 *cough* stewards can't move posts *cough* 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunder_Gooch Posted January 8, 2014 Yes If we decide it's worth trialing Will you let us know when the trial goes into effect so we can try it out? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted January 8, 2014 Will you let us know when the trial goes into effect so we can try it out? ROFL you are trying to talk everyone out of this idea aren't you? ROFL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 8, 2014 Will you let us know when the trial goes into effect so we can try it out? Well, you just started a new PPF and you locked it. You have the power!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunder_Gooch Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) ROFL you are trying to talk everyone out of this idea aren't you? ROFL Not so much, but I know exactly how it will play out. As long as the other team can use it to their advantage they will be for it, but as soon as they are forced to stop derailing topics they don't like... that's when it will hit the fan and they will scream bloody murder again about personal insults or whatever they can to try and prevent their opponents from having a different opinion than they do. Edited January 8, 2014 by Thunder_Gooch 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
