Directed Discussion

[Thunder_Gooch]

Not every discussion must be an argument.

Not every argument needs to be won.

 

 

I think a better statement would be, don't post anything in public you are not willing to defend to the end.

 

 

_________________________

 

 

But, if you stay true to form, you will continue to reinterate your opinion every time someone posts.

 

I look at lot's of discussions I don't participate in that turn into debates, essentially they are two sides each re-posting the same opinions over and over in circles.

 

It seems a common theme for most debates.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Thunder_Gooch

[Marblehead]

I have been known to talk in circles.

 

But then, I have a reason for doing that. If there is a good discussion going on about a topic I am interested in, and I have established my understanding and opinion, but I'm not firmly established with my opinion because I feel there might be some understandings I am unaware of, I will ask the same questions with different words to see if I can milk out knowledge I am yet unaware of.

 

With most things in life, if you don't ask the right question you are going to get a wrong or incomplete answer.

[dawei]

I am generally an advocate for this idea... because:

 

1. The PPF is a terrible excuse for controlled threads and very difficult to watch, search, etc. It is "Personal" and that is ok on a very limited basis but not a good idea as a general area of posting.

2. Threads should not get Pitted.... members should be And the Pit has become too PC an idea now... it is beyond debate club to being a fight club excuse. IMO, there is rarely a reason to Pit a thread but many reasons to Pit posts and members...

3. Not everything is a debate. While disagreement is a natural outcome to any thread, it changes colors very fast at times and that is the issue. Spamming, attacking, ganging up, etc. The same posters won't stop. It is the Usual Suspects. The OP should have the highest 'say' in THEIR thread.... if within reason, but there is a catch as to whether they can maintain it

4. Social Media has become a medication for the masses. TTB is no different. The amount of time people spend online is saving them from trips to the psych ward but TTB pays in different ways. People are allowed to go crazy here instead.

5. What's with the male cesspool? I recently pondered which members are the most important contributors to TTB, IMO, and the top 5 where female... So it begs the question or statement: Is the problem an alpha male issue? Dogs want to spray their scent; the mob likes to surround themselves with wiseguys; Apes beat their chest. I no longer need to go to the discovery channel to watch this, I now simply go to TTB for entertainment

6. The "my system is best" has gotten so old that it incredulously seems to continue to pick up steam... if the godfather talks the wiseguys need to come out in mass to clarify this is the only system? I have a dream... that the ego will let go of systems...

7. BS and brown-nosing... several take this to art form levels... continuing the mafia metaphors... someone comes back from a suspension and then says how bad it is to see someone else banned and how much they will be missed? Is that like Luca Brasi saying he would miss the guy he just wacked ? Does a shootout has no collateral damage? The male cesspool continues.

 

Yes, TTB... there is a Santa Claus... and without Lao Zi there is no Tao... someone needs to publish the misinformation we see here and then distribute the proceeds to feed the hungry and poor...

 

---

 

Ok, enough fun and games... what to do?

 

More folders would not be the answer, IMO... maintaining more areas increases mod work and complicates it...

 

if the idea is to put more responsible control of a thread in the OP, then the thread needs more controls... maybe like settings to say how "directed" this thread will be. But this often requires custom code and is a pain to admins on upgrades...

 

So the idea may be that we ask and expect members to simply respect the OP and the thread and posts... The one reason this doesn't work has been said: The male cesspool syndrome...

 

SO the choice narrows down to giving control to members or software...

[silent thunder]

 

 

I think a better statement would be, don't post anything in public you are not willing to defend to the end.

 

 

of course you would

[Mal]

I strongly agree with your post dawei

 

ESPICIALLY this.

2. Threads should not get Pitted.... members should be And the Pit has become too PC an idea now... it is beyond debate club to being a fight club excuse. IMO, there is rarely a reason to Pit a thread but many reasons to Pit posts and members...

The pit is only on TTB because Sean doesnt want posts deleted.

 

So this was a place to put content that is simply unwanted on TTB.

 

Posts and threads are now routinely moved into the pit yet members continue to derail threads leaving someone else to do the clean up work.

 

So the idea may be that we ask and expect members to simply respect the OP

Well we do want people to :-

 

Treat other members with respect. No personal attacks.

Its just that some people seem to ignore the 1st part a lot more often than the 2nd part

 

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

1. The PPF is a terrible excuse for controlled threads and very difficult to watch, search, etc. It is "Personal" and that is ok on a very limited basis but not a good idea as a general area of posting

 

Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.

 

"I want to be able to post in public, but I also want to remain absolute control of the discussion."

 

Pick one, not both.

 

If this ever does go into effect, I will be happy to create a mo pai thread and watch you guys scream bloody murder when you can't trash talk it in the thread.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2014 by Thunder_Gooch

[BaguaKicksAss]

One Mo Pai thread where people can't trash talk it, that seems perfectly reasonable to me.

 

Now 20 said threads, well that might be pushing it a tiny bit .

[Thunder_Gooch]

One Mo Pai thread where people can't trash talk it, that seems perfectly reasonable to me.

 

Now 20 said threads, well that might be pushing it a tiny bit .

Well if I understand this correctly what will happen is the threads will be split into two, whomever is OP of either thread maintains control of that thread, so it creates two threads where neither party can disagree with the other, perhaps leading them each splitting again and again, with an exponential growth curve, 2 threads, 4 threads, 8 threads, 16 threads, 32 threads, 64 threads, 128 threads, 256 threads, 512 threads, 1024 threads, 2048 threads, 4096 threads.........

Edited January 14, 2014 by Thunder_Gooch

[BaguaKicksAss]

Well if I understand this correctly what will happen is the threads will be split into two, whomever is OP of either thread maintains control of that thread, so it creates two threads where neither party can disagree with the other, perhaps leading them each splitting again and again, with an exponential growth curve, 2 threads, 4 threads, 8 threads, 16 threads, 32 threads, 64 threads, 128 threads, 256 threads, 512 threads, 1024 threads, 2048 threads, 4096 threads.........

 

How I understand it is.... Thunder_Gooch starts a Mo Pai is awesome, dissenters eff off thread... someone posts some crap.

 

TG says hey stop posting in this thread thanks.

 

The person stops.

 

Then if 3 people post crap, or the first person does again (or even their first post) all get moved to another thread. No one owns that new thread....

[silent thunder]

harassment does not equal discussion

[dawei]

 

Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.

 

"I want to be able to post in public, but I also want to remain absolute control of the discussion."

 

Pick one, not both.

 

It is only relatively public... it is a secured website with login access. TTB has decided the level of control by an OP. Just because the PPF lets the OP control the content does not change it as public or not. So the TTB has allowed members to pick BOTH. Did you really not understand this?

 

As members can pick both, it would be good to flesh out exactly how they are used but they will never be completely the same exact thing.

 

If this ever does go into effect, I will be happy to create a mo pai thread and watch you guys scream bloody murder when you can't trash talk it in the thread.

 

There will always be childish responses to ideas... I am not sure anyone would be surprised.

 

The problem will only be when people stop posting to ignore it and you then post over and over and over, purposely to throw it current again... and then we'll see how that is dealt with.

[dawei]

How I understand it is.... Thunder_Gooch starts a Mo Pai is awesome, dissenters eff off thread... someone posts some crap.

 

TG says hey stop posting in this thread thanks.

 

The person stops.

 

Then if 3 people post crap, or the first person does again (or even their first post) all get moved to another thread. No one owns that new thread....

 

And it for some reason it is pitted when split then it is never split again... I thought this was simple to understand but it is partly a mod decision where it should go.

[Brian]

 

It is only relatively public... it is a secured website with login access. TTB has decided the level of control by an OP. Just because the PPF lets the OP control the content does not change it as public or not. So the TTB has allowed members to pick BOTH. Did you really not understand this?

 

As members can pick both, it would be good to flesh out exactly how they are used but they will never be completely the same exact thing.

 

 

There will always be childish responses to ideas... I am not sure anyone would be surprised.

 

The problem will only be when people stop posting to ignore it and you then post over and over and over, purposely to throw it current again... and then we'll see how that is dealt with.

It is my understanding that PPFs, The Pit and Contributed Articles are not accessible by non-members and do not show up in external searches (Google or whatever), and that this is part of the value in sending stuff to The Pit as well as being a double-edged sword for PPFs & Contributed Articles.

 

Correct?

[BaguaKicksAss]

Yes.

 

I'm happy PPFs are not googleable.

 

Hmmm, a thread where one has who can post in it control over it being googleable, hmmmmm.... I'm a bit wary of that aspect.

 

Why is everyone so biased against PPFs anyways?

 

So what if they aren't googleable, are folks using TTBs for promo / google ranking or something?

[dawei]

It is my understanding that PPFs, The Pit and Contributed Articles are not accessible by non-members and do not show up in external searches (Google or whatever), and that this is part of the value in sending stuff to The Pit as well as being a double-edged sword for PPFs & Contributed Articles.

 

Correct?

 

Correct...

 

Why is everyone so biased against PPFs anyways?

 

Fair question.

 

To me, and it may be from lack of use of the area but I doubt it will convince me otherwise...

 

The inability to see most recent posts in chronology as all boards display posts in a section. It is the one time a user needs to suspend how they use forum software anywhere in the world for this customized way.

 

Now, would I suggest we get rid of it? No way.

 

I think it has a useful purpose and it is a novel idea. I have just yet to feel any personal benefit in using it. I really only look at one PPF so far, so I can at least say I use it.

 

I am big on organizational content and ease of use when it comes to forum software... so my opinions may be stronger than others.

[gatito]

I strongly agree with your post dawei

 

ESPICIALLY this.

The pit is only on TTB because Sean doesnt want posts deleted.

 

So this was a place to put content that is simply unwanted on TTB.

 

Posts and threads are now routinely moved into the pit yet members continue to derail threads leaving someone else to do the clean up work.

 

 

Well we do want people to :-

 

 

Treat other members with respect. No personal attacks

 

 

Its just that some people seem to ignore the 1st part a lot more often than the 2nd part

 

 

Regarding: -

 

Treat other members with respect

No personal attacks

 

Certainly the first part should be enforced, as you have done recently.

 

A suggestion to admin, concierges and all TTBs users who are looking to improve the way that the forum works is to upgrade this by simplifying it to: -

 

Treat all others with respect.

Undignified and/or otherwise inappropriate conduct will incur either temporary or permanent suspension.

 

This can obviously be interpreted by the admin/concierge team in a more flexible way than the existing guideline in order to enforce the appropriate boundaries (as determined by admin/concierges).

 

Furthermore, in reporting posts, users should indicate clearly the reason(s) that they consider that the post in question requires enforcement action.