Tilopa’s Mahamudra Instruction to Naropa in Twenty Eight Verses

[Simple_Jack]

The two systems are very different but are said to yield the same result, so I don't judge them in terms of intelligence etc. even if the text appears to.

 

As far as I know, "sutra"/"tantra"/"essence" Mahamudra is an emphasis of the Karma Kagyu, although it's not exclusive to this sect, since there are commentaries and teachings given on Mahamudra texts by Gampopa, Dakpo Tashi Namgyal, etc. from the other Sarma schools/sub-sects.

[Simple_Jack]

Tilopa's "Ganges Mahamudra" are just pith instructions. The 84 Mahasiddhas had a yidam, practiced karmamudra, etc.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[rex]

To Yabyum24 and Rex:

 

.....

 

So, you can see the reason for my interest in the subject and the many varied translations of Tilopa's instructions.

 

 

May the varied translations continue to inspire your path

[yabyum24]

I have found these books to be quite inspiring:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Life-Teaching-Naropa/dp/1570621012/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1389693707&sr=8-2&keywords=tilopa+and+naropa

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Yogas-Naropa-Tsongkhapas-Commentary-entitled/dp/1559392347/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1389693909&sr=8-3&keywords=yoga+of+naropa

[Simple_Jack]

@yabyum24

 

You should do a search on the fivefold path of Mahamudra.

 

 

[RongzomFan]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Yogas-Naropa-Tsongkhapas-Commentary-entitled/dp/1559392347/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1389693909&sr=8-3&keywords=yoga+of+naropa

 

 

This is just Tsongkhapa.

[RongzomFan]

Both are good and consort practice is only an aid to tummo

 

This is a Tsongkhapa take.

[Simple_Jack]

"Sutra Mahamudra", is basically a system of Prajnaparamita Sutra teachings, repackaged as Mahamudra. Gampopa originally created this for people he felt weren't ready for actual Mahamudra. It's a great system nonetheless: which is why it was adopted by the other sects/sub-sects and why it's still studied and taught to people.

[Simple_Jack]

What separates sutra and tantra is method. Mahamudra was a result of the realization from the 84 mahasiddha's practice of the 2 stages i.e. creation & completion stage.

[Simple_Jack]

Guru yoga, is another avenue to realize Mahamudra, along with the 2 stages.

[9th]

This is not in the spirit in which I hoped this thread would go.

 

 

Judging other people, high or low, shows arrogance.

 

 

 

The fool in his ignorance, disdaining Mahamudra,

Knows nothing but struggle in the flood of samsara.

 

Have compassion for those who suffer constant anxiety!

Sick of unrelenting pain and desiring release, adhere to a master,

For when his blessing touches your heart, the mind is liberated.

 

KYE HO! Listen with joy!

Investment in samsara is futile; it is the cause of every anxiety.

Since worldly involvement is pointless, seek the heart of reality!

 

In the transcending of mind’s dualities is Supreme vision;

In a still and silent mind is Supreme Meditation;

In spontaneity is Supreme Activity;

And when all hopes and fears have died, the Goal is reached.

[idiot_stimpy]

[C T]

4 hours of audio teachings on the Fivefold Path of Mahamudra from Drupon Yeshi Rinpoche and Drupon Rinchen Dorjee Rinpoche. Courtesy of Drikung Seattle, a new Dharma Centre in Seattle founded by H.E. Garchen Rinpoche.

 

https://archive.org/details/DrikungSeattle2013Mahamudra

 

 

 

 

 

Additional info: H.E. Garchen Rinpoche is giving a public talk on Karma and Loving Kindness on the 7th of March @ 7 pm -- University of Washington campus, Kane Hall, Room 210. Tickets $20/$15 students and seniors. This is followed by teachings and empowerments from the 8th to the 16th. For further details email [email protected].

Edited January 15, 2014 by C T

[gatito]

 

Hi Gatito

You know, I agree with you. I think if successful practitioners would translate texts within the context of their experiences rather than scholarly interpretations, they would write totally different words. The problem with most Buddhists is that they don't talk about their experiences or practices, being bound by samaya.. Funny though, the accomplished Buddhist practitioners write about their experiences and practices in formal books and sell them for money.

 

What is "DIY"?

 

Life is good, thank you for the wish.

I wish for you the same. You are a brave soul presenting your views in this subforum of marauders and bandits..

 

<snip>

 

 

 

Thanks TI

 

By DIY I mean something like AYP or neoadvaita, which is something that's been dreamed up by someone and not checked properly with reliable sources (e.g. scripture or, more importantly, a Self-realised teacher).

 

Best Wishes

 

g

[Simple_Jack]

4 hours of audio teachings on the Fivefold Path of Mahamudra from Drupon Yeshi Rinpoche and Drupon Rinchen Dorjee Rinpoche. Courtesy of Drikung Seattle, a new Dharma Centre in Seattle founded by H.E. Garchen Rinpoche.

 

https://archive.org/details/DrikungSeattle2013Mahamudra

 

It should be kept in mind that empowerment is required in order to practice fivefold Mahamudra. Abhisheka/empowerment is a direct introduction to the 'View' i.e. the inseparability of clarity and emptiness; especially when receiving the 4 [vase, secret, knowledge, word] empowerments through an HYT initiation, such as Chakrasamvara. Of course, no one's expected to recognize the nature of mind during direct introduction, whether they've received it 1 time or a 1000 times.

 

Some of you reading this might regard this as a regurgitation of concepts, but it should be kept in perspective, that Mahamudra is not a gradual path of practice per se; even when employing the path of the 2 stages. "Sutra Mahamudra" isn't really a gradual path of practice itself, even though it was created for people of dull and average faculties. It can take the average person an entire lifetime(s), to traverse the 4 Yogas of Mahamudra [http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=4999]. Mahamudra is geared towards people of sharp faculties i.e. capacity for realization.

[9th]

[Simple_Jack]

 

 

 

"Nature of Mind - Poop"

[Simple_Jack]

- 3rd of a total of 39 videos of Garchen Rinpoche's commentarial teachings on Tilopa's "Ganges Mahamudra". The first 2 just show preparations before the talk.

[C T]

A similar series of teachings on youtube by H.E., posted by the Drikung Seattle Centre here:

 

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=drikung+kagyu+garchen+rinpoche+mahamudra&sm=3

 

(i like the translations in these over the other one).

[Simple_Jack]

It should be kept in mind that empowerment is required in order to practice fivefold Mahamudra. Abhisheka/empowerment is a direct introduction to the 'View' i.e. the inseparability of clarity and emptiness; especially when receiving the 4 [vase, secret, knowledge, word] empowerments through an HYT initiation, such as Chakrasamvara. Of course, no one's expected to recognize the nature of mind during direct introduction, whether they've received it 1 time or a 1000 times.

 

Some of you reading this might regard this as a regurgitation of concepts, but it should be kept in perspective, that Mahamudra is not a gradual path of practice per se; even when employing the path of the 2 stages [i.e. 'coemergent bliss & emptiness'/detong yeshe]. "Sutra Mahamudra" [i.e. path of liberation/4 yogas], isn't really a gradual path of practice itself, even though it was created for people of dull and average faculties. It can take the average person an entire lifetime(s), to traverse the 4 Yogas of Mahamudra [http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=4999; with each yoga having an inferior, middling, superior sub-divisions]. Mahamudra is geared towards people of sharp faculties i.e. capacity for realization.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Simple_Jack]

Although, Malcolm, was mentioning this in regards to translations of Dzogchen texts: I think this applies to the majority of Vajrayana texts being translated into English.

 

http://www.vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1086&start=600

 

Most of the misconceptions about Dzogchen that people have comes about from making philosophical commitments to translations. You must understand that at this point the translation of seminal texts are in a very embryonic state.

 

At this point it, those of you who do not know Tibetan should reply more on oral instructions than on texts, in my opinion. I am not saying "do not read translations". I am saying that you must understand that translations are very provisional at best at this stage of the game when it comes to Dzogchen. The ground is firmer in terms of sutra and tantra.

 

But what I mostly wanted to address is the idea that merely because one has cited some translations, that one's point is well-backed up. It isn't. If one's citation is not well translated, one's point will be skewed.

 

Relying foremost on the instructions of a guru should be a no-brainer for a Vajrayana practitioner.

 

Another point to keep in mind as described by Loppon Malcolm, http://www.vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1086&start=620:

 

Yes, even good translators get it wrong sometimes, even when they have a commentary to work from. A text must be encountered on its own terms, even if you don't want it to be saying whatever it is saying. As a translator, I personally am committed to unpacking the text whatever is might say, however it may contradict my preconceptions. On the other hand, texts do not exist in vacuums, they exit in relationship to other texts, and so on. So that needs to be considered as well.