Why Do We Focus On Dan Tian ?

[Aetherous]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/potential

[soaring crane]

it feels good?

[ChiDragon]

Why Do We Focus On Dan Tian?

 

When one breathes deeply which sunken chi to the Dan Tian, at that instance, your body strength can be released at maximum or allow the body to function at its peak. Thus all martial arts focus on the Dan Tian all the time for awareness and ready for the unexpected.

 

 

[exorcist_1699]

Women start from the middle Dantian (middle of breast) , ordinary men start from their lower Dantian; Talented people start from the upper Dantian , genius start from the Dantian of nowhere.

[ChiDragon]

hmmmmmmmmmmm.......

That is something new......

Edited January 22, 2014 by ChiDragon

[The Prisoner]

it the best place for gravity, your center of balance - its were you can get hurt!

[effilang]

The body has a template structured to facillitate the development of extraordinary functions.

 

These functions require energy to be developed.

Some of these functions are physical, others are non-physical and the highest forms manifest at the level of the mind.

There are different types of energies required to develop these varying functions and there are corresponding reservoirs and containers of these energies which are used within the body as laboratories for mixing and transforming these substances.

Further yet, beyond these, there are even more miraculous functions which can be cultivated.

 

At the higher levels there are only 3 factors:

 

1. The flexibility and emptiness of the mind. It's ability to be open.

2. The availability of potential for the mind to manifest into being or non-being.

3. An activated connection between 1 and 2 to give birth to 4: nothing or everything.

Edited January 22, 2014 by effilang

[Cookie Monster]

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Edited May 5, 2021 by Ocean Form

[MERCELESS ONE]

to sum up som things for those who may not know, the dantien is used to strengthen the other energy centers. it strengthens the other centers by having/storeing more energy. the dantien is the only energy center that can store massive ammounts of energy. the others cannot. this energy when stored in the dantien creates a feedback loop to circulate energy back and forth throu the middle and upper dantien. but you must go through the process to branch these centers to gether. it all starts and ends with the dantien. why? because the energy of the dantien is the only way to boost true potential. outside of that you will always be searching and may never find that out. even for those who start at the middle or upper dantien. your power will still be limited till you routinely store energy in the dantien. but however ill give a little secret. the body naturally stores energy in the dantien this isnt to downplay dantien training at all, what im getting at is if you engage in deep meditation focus on the dantien slightly and the process will start and soon take a life of its own.

[Wells]

this energy when stored in the dantien creates a feedback loop to circulate energy back and forth throu the middle and upper dantien

 

Feedback loop? A pic I saw in the web once comes to mind:

 

[Green Tiger]

part of what the work accomplishes is that it is a streamlining of signal to noise ratios. identify signal, amplify. identify noise, attenuate. what happens to the olfactory neural potential resonating 40 cps when the flow of air is beneath the threshold of sensation...even better, below the threshold of neural potential at all, in a manner of speaking, because they dont fire just one way. all of the little vortices of air that form in your air passageways because of air rushing past - streamlining of that is what prompted me to describe air as a superfluid when breathing in that state. just from breathwork alone there is a ton of freely available potential, if you just quiet down the things that are using it. same goes for the generative force. brimming, as in the physical goal being the streamlining, harmonization, tuning of all the body's systems...now again, another ton of freely available potential once the body no longer has these "signals for those needs," the process transforms.

 

nonlinear as in phenomena you might not expect - what does a linear analysis say of having streamlined the body's systems to such a degree?

 

 

 

 

sorry mr cd, if you cant decipher the scribblings, they don't mean quite so much

 

Efficacious writing disseminates concepts with veracity and unembellished aphorism. While I don't endorse ineffectual bromide, there's a distinct dissimilitude between fastidious phraseology and deliberate obfuscation. Indeed, labyrinthine prose is conventionally utilized as a penumbra over adolescent abstraction.

[Brian]

I once had a t-shirt which read, "Eschew Obfuscation" -- but then, I am sesquipedalian.

[MERCELESS ONE]

 

Feedback loop? A pic I saw in the web once comes to mind:

 

thats exactly it, but you must temper the dantien first. otherwise there will be no power. in our era because of the way our societies are designed we should start with the dantien first. it will help with detoxing, healing, overall energy and health. also there are other benifits that you will never encounter with starting with the other energy centers.

[Songtsan]

^^^This is a misconception. For some people, in some positions, this is very nearly true, but it depends largely on physiology, musculature and body position. Ask yourself this -- does an amputation cause dan tien to move? Does sitting? How about doing lots of bicycling?

 

good point - I am thinking that the correlation between normal center of gravity and LDT area is no mere coincidence however - but I have no further conjecture to add on this.

[Songtsan]

LDT is a centerpoint on many levels.

Here's a structural model:

 

This image is taken from the book Anatomy Trains.

If you look at the body as a (tensegrity) structure

a lot of forces meets at LDT.

 

Anyway, my point....

It has to do with alignment of structural forces, as well as "energy".

Although they're really the same.

 

good find - I used to have that book, though I failed to read the entire thing. In Thai massage everything revolves around the same area - massage is supposed to end there (begin with feet).

[joeblast]

Efficacious writing disseminates concepts with veracity and unembellished aphorism. While I don't endorse ineffectual bromide, there's a distinct dissimilitude between fastidious phraseology and deliberate obfuscation. Indeed, labyrinthine prose is conventionally utilized as a penumbra over adolescent abstraction.

"It should be possible to explain the laws of physics to a barmaid"

 

but if you really want her to be able to employ the language and mold it into insight, you'd probably best hope she takes her grad classes in the evening

 

I'm still not seeing where I got overly verbose or esoteric in my verbiage, though rather the opposite of labyrinthine prose, put forth a concept link a few points, elaborate to other aspects, correlate I get my share of jabs, of course!

[JohnC]

to sum up som things for those who may not know, the dantien is used to strengthen the other energy centers. it strengthens the other centers by having/storeing more energy. the dantien is the only energy center that can store massive ammounts of energy. the others cannot. this energy when stored in the dantien creates a feedback loop to circulate energy back and forth throu the middle and upper dantien. but you must go through the process to branch these centers to gether. it all starts and ends with the dantien. why? because the energy of the dantien is the only way to boost true potential. outside of that you will always be searching and may never find that out. even for those who start at the middle or upper dantien. your power will still be limited till you routinely store energy in the dantien. but however ill give a little secret. the body naturally stores energy in the dantien this isnt to downplay dantien training at all, what im getting at is if you engage in deep meditation focus on the dantien slightly and the process will start and soon take a life of its own.

 

Fascinating ideas.

 

I practiced a insight practice for a long time, and would notice how my insight would come and go depending on how stressed I was. That as I practiced and relaxed into insight, I would have more, but if I had some hard days I would become more reactive, and see less into my emotions. Struggled with this... that it was like the practice was required.

 

Sounds like your saying that as you develop the dantien, you move up in awareness and energy and stabilize?

 

John

[SonOfTheGods]

I worked as a bouncer in various strip clubs across the USA.

 

I spoke to just about every naked female in them places- well, most of them were clueless about such topics as:

 

Quantum Mechanics

Physics

Hyper dimensional theory

Time Travel

Orgone Capacitors

 

But hey, I tried. lol

 

Some of them asked me if I was gay because I was only interested in intelligent conversation, and not their implants lol

 

"It should be possible to explain the laws of physics to a barmaid"

[Taomeow]

To tie the two emergent and seemingly unrelated topics of the thread together, I should perhaps mention that I store grammar in the lower dantien. Always did. There's even an NLP term for someone exhibiting this phenomenon: "kinesthetic speller," although when I say "grammar" I mean considerably more than just spelling, more like nearly the whole of linguistics, semantics, stylistics and so on. My lower dantien facilitates (or, occasionally, initiates, or, if there's too much competing stress, sabotages) the creation of templates for structuring a language, any language, English, music, taiji, interior design... anything that has a meaningful set of rules that can and should be applied first exactly, then creatively, to mastering a particular set of skills or grasping a particular body of information.

 

This may not be immediately understood or even believed by visual or auditory spellers (more NLP terms) who constitute the majority of the modern populations, this is atavistic -- from prehistory. People didn't always rely so heavily on their sight for information, the lower dantien used to be the primary organ of perception, having this advantage over sight that it perceives and processes both external AND internal information simultaneously. This gives it an opportunity to come up with a structure that is external-internal non-contradictory, i.e. basically lets you internalize and, in a sense, embody any learned skill.

 

The middle and the upper dantiens, which also used to be fully operational from birth in prehistory, have different functions, but I won't say much about them since these are both learned skills in the process of being cultivated for me, whereas a functional lower dantien is, like I said, something I was born with, something that worked without me having to work on it from the get-go. (Of course now that I know what else it can do, I don't have to stop there... )

Edited January 24, 2014 by Taomeow

[Mark Foote]

Brimming potential produces nonlinear phenomena.

 

I had no problem with this, because I am working with Cheng Man-Ch'ing's description of the accumulation of chi in the lower dantien until it overflows to the tailbone and up the spine to the crown of the head. He advises using absolutely no force in the process. He mentions a sexual energy that develops at some point that must be raised.

 

Used to be all Greek to me, and my lower dantien has never been the place of grammer, though I begin to see where it might become the basis of all my skilled responses as taomeow described in her life. What I experience now is a sharpening of the senses, including proprioception, equalibrioception, and the sense of gravity in connection with the location of my awareness in space. The little trick that Ya-Mu mentions, that would be that the inclusion of proprioception/kinesthetic/tactile awareness in equalibrioception at the location of awareness, feels like falling asleep with your eyes open. Just kidding about the "little trick", Ya-Mu, and you can disagree with me, but I contend the circulation and accumulation of chi takes place between waking and sleeping, and I can be consciously between waking and sleeping through adherence to my sense of location or I can be unconsciously between waking and sleeping, in which unconscious case the chi largely comes and goes as I fall in and out of place. Meaning it's very big, since all of psychic phenomena happens between waking and sleeping, and yet everyday although most folks don't realize it.

 

Adherence to location, the mind with the chi, sometimes at the dantien, sometimes like free space.

 

Cheng talks about relaxation from the shoulders to the wrists and fingers, from the hips to the balls of the feet, and from the tailbone to the top of the head. He talks about relaxing the chest, without which he says the chi cannot sink. The key for me is in the relaxation from the tailbone to the top of the head with a relaxed chest in inhalation, and with a relaxed chest in exhalation.

 

The empty hand grasps the hoe handle

walking along, I ride the ox

the ox crosses the wooden bridge

the bridge is flowing, the water is still

 

Fuxi, 5th century C.E.

[Uroboros]

To tie the two emergent and seemingly unrelated topics of the thread together, I should perhaps mention that I store grammar in the lower dantien. Always did. There's even an NLP term for someone exhibiting this phenomenon: "kinesthetic speller," although when I say "grammar" I mean considerably more than just spelling, more like nearly the whole of linguistics, semantics, stylistics and so on. My lower dantien facilitates (or, occasionally, initiates, or, if there's too much competing stress, sabotages) the creation of templates for structuring a language, any language, English, music, taiji, interior design... anything that has a meaningful set of rules that can and should be applied first exactly, then creatively, to mastering a particular set of skills or grasping a particular body of information.

 

This may not be immediately understood or even believed by visual or auditory spellers (more NLP terms) who constitute the majority of the modern populations, this is atavistic -- from prehistory. People didn't always rely so heavily on their sight for information, the lower dantien used to be the primary organ of perception, having this advantage over sight that it perceives and processes both external AND internal information simultaneously. This gives it an opportunity to come up with a structure that is external-internal non-contradictory, i.e. basically lets you internalize and, in a sense, embody any learned skill.

 

The middle and the upper dantiens, which also used to be fully operational from birth in prehistory, have different functions, but I won't say much about them since these are both learned skills in the process of being cultivated for me, whereas a functional lower dantien is, like I said, something I was born with, something that worked without me having to work on it from the get-go. (Of course now that I know what else it can do, I don't have to stop there... )

 

Are you talking about kinesthetic sense dominance?

 

Im definitely kinesthetic when it comes to how I process information. That is one reason why I love QiGong and MA.. Feels natural.

[exorcist_1699]

Once the lower Tan Tien is "ripe", the above ''Feeling'' all comes together, even though the lower Tan Tien is being "fed" by the above

 

In fact, it is only when the qi we can initialize is small and weak that makes us limited to some location, say the lower or upper Dantian. If that qi we can initialize growing bigger and bigger , such an emphasize becomes less meaningful . For example , when we focus our attention on the the upper Dantian, we can immediately feel the rise of qi from our lower Dantian, or vice versa ; even if we project our attention to the space somewhere outside us , say the space some distant from our eyes, we can still find qi arising inside our body; of course, the best is having a capability of pay attention to ' nowhere' and still find some qi rising inside ,even outside us ...

To any individual in this world , I think nothing can be more blessing or happier than the capability of initializing some energy at hands just somewhere close to him/her , whenever he /she needs it .

Edited January 24, 2014 by exorcist_1699

[Ya Mu]

I had no problem with this, because I am working with Cheng Man-Ch'ing's description of the accumulation of chi in the lower dantien until it overflows to the tailbone and up the spine to the crown of the head. He advises using absolutely no force in the process. He mentions a sexual energy that develops at some point that must be raised.

 

Used to be all Greek to me, and my lower dantien has never been the place of grammer, though I begin to see where it might become the basis of all my skilled responses as taomeow described in her life. What I experience now is a sharpening of the senses, including proprioception, equalibrioception, and the sense of gravity in connection with the location of my awareness in space. The little trick that Ya-Mu mentions, that would be that the inclusion of proprioception/kinesthetic/tactile awareness in equalibrioception at the location of awareness, feels like falling asleep with your eyes open. Just kidding about the "little trick", Ya-Mu, and you can disagree with me, but I contend the circulation and accumulation of chi takes place between waking and sleeping, and I can be consciously between waking and sleeping through adherence to my sense of location or I can be unconsciously between waking and sleeping, in which unconscious case the chi largely comes and goes as I fall in and out of place. Meaning it's very big, since all of psychic phenomena happens between waking and sleeping, and yet everyday although most folks don't realize it.

 

Adherence to location, the mind with the chi, sometimes at the dantien, sometimes like free space.

 

Cheng talks about relaxation from the shoulders to the wrists and fingers, from the hips to the balls of the feet, and from the tailbone to the top of the head. He talks about relaxing the chest, without which he says the chi cannot sink. The key for me is in the relaxation from the tailbone to the top of the head with a relaxed chest in inhalation, and with a relaxed chest in exhalation.

 

The empty hand grasps the hoe handle

walking along, I ride the ox

the ox crosses the wooden bridge

the bridge is flowing, the water is still

 

Fuxi, 5th century C.E.

Oh I don't think I disagree with you as essentially that IS what happens, the part of what you said " I can be consciously between waking and sleeping through adherence to my sense of location or I can be unconsciously between waking and sleeping..." is what I call "shifting" in our system. I have mentioned before I have proven this in a sleep lab where standing, eyes open, fully conscious the monitors showed I went through the first 3 stages of sleep - inside of 3 minutes. We can learn to do this, though, through the practice itself. When I project Qi in wai qi liao fa, I am in this state.

However, this doesn't mean that the only way to accumulate and circulate qi is in that state, it just means that all is optimized, with higher efficiency. After all, most people never realize this "state" yet they continue to live - this living requires Qi to be gathered and circulate - otherwise we would be dead. It just is not enough Qi, for most people, to raise the energy body vibration for awareness shift. A kinda catch 22 which of course is resolved through proper qigong practice.

 

In general, if ALL activity comes from Dan Tian, as TM says, we utilize a harmony (or create a harmony) of internal and external awareness. And this is a part of what is called "the alchemical process". A developed Dan Tian results in increased awareness.

[Mark Foote]

Oh I don't think I disagree with you as essentially that IS what happens, the part of what you said " I can be consciously between waking and sleeping through adherence to my sense of location or I can be unconsciously between waking and sleeping..." is what I call "shifting" in our system. I have mentioned before I have proven this in a sleep lab where standing, eyes open, fully conscious the monitors showed I went through the first 3 stages of sleep - inside of 3 minutes. We can learn to do this, though, through the practice itself. When I project Qi in wai qi liao fa, I am in this state.

 

Wow, v. interesting to me to hear about the sleep lab.

 

That "kinda catch 22"- I think you are right that this is not directly teachable (IMO). The wikipedia page about Milton Erickson, the hypnotherapist, offers this:

 

"Erickson maintained that it was not possible consciously to instruct the unconscious mind, and that authoritarian suggestions were likely to be met with resistance. The unconscious mind responds to openings, opportunities, metaphors, symbols, and contradictions. Effective hypnotic suggestion, then, should be "artfully vague", leaving space for the subject to fill in the gaps with their own unconscious understandings - even if they do not consciously grasp what is happening. The skilled hypnotherapist constructs these gaps of meaning in a way most suited to the individual subject - in a way which is most likely to produce the desired change."

 

Love that!

 

This morning, I had to remind myself of what I have learned, in order to sit. I summed it up like this the other day, on my own site:

 

"I've read that people who suffer from Alzheimer's disease die when they finally forget how to breathe.

 

It's taken me all of my adult life so far to experience action out of stretch and action out of the distinction of sense without the exercise of volition. As far as I can tell, it's all remembering how to breathe, as I never have before."

 

[Taomeow]

Are you talking about kinesthetic sense dominance?

 

Im definitely kinesthetic when it comes to how I process information. That is one reason why I love QiGong and MA.. Feels natural.

 

Yes, kinesthetic sense dominance is part of it, but it's more than that. It's a kind of intelligence by different means, occasionally giving me proof that it far surpasses the intelligence of the neocortex. E.g. it predicts the future, I think I wrote about it at some point -- the LDT supplies me with forecasts that I have learned to read as "warnings" and "promises" -- one hundred percent accurate. It's hard to always do what it says because for one thing it's nonverbal and it's up to my upper brain to "get it" correctly and choose my plans accordingly, and for another, the messages bypass what we normally utilize when planning for the future -- ignorance of certain factors we can't consciously perceive, wishful thinking, "hope," justifications and intellectualizations, all that cognitive noise. The LDT just knows "what's in it for me," so to speak, and tells it as is. And whenever you're not ready to hear the message, you try to ignore it... but in a couple of extreme situations it basically yelled at me, so I couldn't ignore the warning, it kept "yelling" till I changed my understanding of the situation and, accordingly, my inner "readiness" and my external plans. It can be very extreme. But in more mundane situations, it can be just a whisper... and I'm learning, trying, to listen to that whisper at all times, because it never, ever lies.