Why on earth would one practice more than one system?

[BaguaKicksAss]

There is more in any decent system than one could master in a lifetime, especially only practicing an hour or 2 per day.

 

So how come folks practice a few in unison?

 

I can see if you haven't quite picked the best one yet, but still I would think everyone would practice one at a time, to see which is best. Hard to tell if you are practicing 3-4 at once. Sort of like if I want to see if a new health product works, I would need to take one at a time, not 3 at a time, so I know which one is working. Also some things just don't mix well with or get along with others.

 

I feel with qigong practices it can actually be a bit dangerous to go messing with a few at the same time, especially when one is new.

 

I can see focusing on one for many years, then perhaps adding another...

 

But only a year or two, then another, than another? That isn't going to help mastery at all, unfortunately.

 

The reason I wonder is all the talk about the myriad of different systems everyone is posting about.

 

Not that I'm one to talk, having had 2 teachers when I started Bagua, but I'm hoping others have more sense than I did .

 

I figure it's the interestingness and the curiosity to learn and seek more.

 

[thamosh]

I agree completely.

 

This temptation is something I fight myself.

 

I recently spoke to my teacher about something I was going thru who told me that our training kind of makes us like solar cells ready to be charged by a certain type of sunlight.

 

 

So this is something new to me and just acts as a reminder that it takes a bunch of time and hard work to fully understand the system that your training in.

Edited January 14, 2014 by thamosh

[Jetsun]

I used to practice many energetic systems and methods at once, I realise now the main reason for doing so was anxiety, in that I was doing all I could to try improve and fix myself. I agree it can be dangerous to do so if they are energetic practices, or at least you may counter the benefit of one with another. Another issue I came across is that it is impossible to tell which practice is beneficial if you mix them up.

 

But if you differentiate the areas of practice mixing can be ok, for example you could do Buddhist meditation for your mind, Taoist Qigong for your health and energy, Christianity for the way you conduct your social life, without problems.

[liminal_luke]

BKA,

 

You and Taomeow, among others, have ingeniously hitched your Taobums habit to actual practice so that both activities rise in tandem. That's kind of unusual. Mostly we're Taobums: eclectic, experimental, and terminally searching. The pick-one-thing-and-practice-for-a-decade crowd generally shops elsewhere.

[thamosh]

it is impossible to tell which practice is beneficial if you mix them up.

 

Ding ding ding we have a winner.

 

This will prevent you from mastering the system and you could never really properly train someone in either system or accurately describe what each one does.

 

This is also why documenting your training is also important.

[silent thunder]

I'm with you on this too.

 

I'll go and study with the supreme science qigong foundation when they travel through my city, just for the added inertia of four days of practice with 400-500 like minded people... talk about energy surge!

 

But then I'm right back to my system for the rest of the year.

Consistency and commitment is fertile soil for prosperity.

[silent thunder]

Ding ding ding we have a winner.

 

This will prevent you from mastering the system and you could never really properly train someone in either system or accurately describe what each one does.

 

This is also why documenting your training is also important.

 

One of the best pieces of advice from my teacher was to start a daily journal and log anything noteworthy after practice.

It's become part of my practice and has been invaluable being able to go back and have a clear record of things that have transpired years and months ago.

[GreytoWhite]

I think the meditation aspect of it can be dangerous but I have yet to see any issues with combining practice of multiple martial arts styles built on the same principles and body mechanics. There are moves and exercises from different lineages and arts which complement each other very well and can open doors to kinesthetic awareness you may not have gotten from your teacher or that art. Hard AND soft are both required to fight, if one's practice is not for fighting all the more power to you. I have been forced to fight my entire life and the soft alone is too slow of a path to actual usage.

[thamosh]

One of the best pieces of advice from my teacher was to start a daily journal and log anything noteworthy after practice.

It's become part of my practice and has been invaluable being able to go back and have a clear record of things that have transpired years and months ago.

 

Its something that documents the path within that system and its a good thing for a master to pass on his training journal to his student.

[JohnC]

BKA,

 

Do you practice wikka and bagua in tandem?

 

John

[Seeker of Wisdom]

But if you differentiate the areas of practice mixing can be ok, for example you could do Buddhist meditation for your mind, Taoist Qigong for your health and energy, Christianity for the way you conduct your social life, without problems.

Agreed - someone with a good understanding of what their goals are, what paths lead to those goals, and what practices match those paths can select methods from different traditions according to the strengths of those traditions.

 

As others have said, mixing too much leads to confusion and poor results. It is silly to pray to Jesus one minute and take refuge in the Three Jewels the next.

 

I think there should be a clear commitment to one system, and others can be used as 'catalysts' to shore up the primary system's weak points. In my practice, I am a Buddhist with an emphasis on shamatha, but I use some things from Taoism and yoga to help with the chi side of cultivation, and accept good teachings on virtue wherever they come from.

[Aetherous]

I have a main one that I do, but right now not all aspects are addressed by it. For instance, it doesn't loosen the mind the way Buddhism does, it's primarily focused on cultivating certain things (building)...and I'm also interested in learning about Buddhism, especially with doing things like tonglen and mantra. So I keep Buddhism sort of on the back burner for when I feel like practicing or when I need to loosen up and get rid of negativity....if one practice needs to go out the window, it's Buddhism. And then I learned Kunlun previously and solely practiced those methods quite a bit a few years ago, so I kind of know what they do...if I want to feel like my physical health is harmonizing more, to get the middle and lower dantian working together, and build some fresh energy, I can throw in the Kunlun method/yigong. So that's really on the back burner...a rare thing to do every once in a while when it's the right time for it.

Right now this is what works for me, but I think it's important to have a main practice, and do it multiple times a day to make a few hours, in addition to its philosophy guiding your life outside of practice. If someone doesn't have a main practice, then it's exploration time.

[Green Tiger]

In my case, I started off training in T'ai Chi with an instructor who had only really practiced standing meditation and hard styles of Ch'i Kung. I asked about the softer, more energetic types of Ch'i Kung (at the time I was interested in Wild Goose) and he handed me a book and basically told me that practicing Ch'i Kung was a waste of time. His argument was that T'ai Chi is already advanced Ch'i Kung. He was taking for granted that perhaps, at the time, I wasn't ready for advanced Ch'i Kung.

 

Being the stubborn and curious student that I am, I pursued Ch'i Kung with a passion anyway; trying Spring Forest, 8 Pieces of Brocade a la Yang Jwing Ming, Flying Phoenix, and, finally, Gift of the Tao and Michael's Stillness-Movement system.

 

I'm really glad I've had the opportunity to try a few different systems. I think it's made me a more well-rounded practitioner and has given me a better idea of what's out there.

 

Ultimately, I think you need to stick your flag in the sand somewhere, though, if you want to get the deep and rich benefits of a system.

 

Now that I've become more sensitive, I do see that my T'ai Chi instructor was right: T'ai Chi is advanced Ch'i Kung. But it took me a few years of diligent Ch'i Kung practice to recognize that and I'm not sure that I ever would have stuck with it if I wouldn't have been practicing Ch'i Kung as well.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Green Tiger

[thamosh]

Why not go to the source of all the fragmented "sunlight" practitices? The one true source of sunlight: The sun itself. Is there a greater, a purer practice? No text source to decode. No humans by which to pass through. Just the pure qi of the sun itself.

 

 

Im not a sun practitioner.

 

Let me explain.

 

I was at work and the sun was setting the sunlight can thru the blinds and when the light hit me my shen activated and I started to buzz. Not knowing what to think of this I just let it go. Till it happened again but this time I went outside to experience it directly.

 

I felt centered grounded and was charging at the same time.

 

At this point i decided to call my teacher.

 

Who told me that it was a speical type of sunlight that only happens once a day.

 

Of course i tried to test this by getting up and watching the sunrise.... nothing then I tried it again at a different time of the day and nothing still. It was and is during that specific that sifu said.

 

So this is something I wasnt expecting but either was healing words with proper shen development.

Edited January 14, 2014 by thamosh

[MERCELESS ONE]

-on the contrary my friends, all the greats mastered multiple systems in order to create one system. donhai chaun, bruce lee, chan sen feng, even in the sciences its the same thing. to get something useful you have to add and take away to get the outcome your looking for, also keeping in mind byproducts of the processes involved. its about understanding, if you understand the processes of the system/systems you practice, you will be able to practice multiple systems at once and utilize more of the aspects. the more you advance you will be able to understand the subtleties of any system you practice and may have insight into others as well.

 

-in practicing any system, one or many, you must know your goal and final outcome that you're hoping to attain, then master a system/systems that have been known to produce that outcome. this goes beyond just nei kung, and bleeds over into life as well.

 

-think about how many sciences it takes to send a rocket ship into space! lol!! but like i said know the outcome you seek because "some ppl just want to swim" science and space isnt interesting lol

 

-the greatest peice of advice i could give to anyone looking to practice one system or many know yourself and what you can handle and go from there peace,love, and chi...ps "curiosity didnt kill every cat it made some of them famous"

 

 

[Green Tiger]

-on the contrary my friends, all the greats mastered multiple systems in order to create one system. donhai chaun, bruce lee, chan sen feng, even in the sciences its the same thing. to get something useful you have to add and take away to get the outcome your looking for, also keeping in mind byproducts of the processes involved. its about understanding, if you understand the processes of the system/systems you practice, you will be able to practice multiple systems at once and utilize more of the aspects. the more you advance you will be able to understand the subtleties of any system you practice and may have insight into others as well. -in practicing any system, one or many, you must know your goal and final outcome that you're hoping to attain, then master a system/systems that have been known to produce that outcome. this goes beyond just nei kung, and bleeds over into life as well. -think about how many sciences it takes to send a rocket ship into space! lol!! but like i said know the outcome you seek because "some ppl just want to swim" science and space isnt interesting lol -the greatest peice of advice i could give to anyone looking to practice one system or many know yourself and what you can handle and go from there peace,love, and chi...ps "curiosity didnt kill every cat it made some of them famous"

 

Can't say I totally disagree . . . as Grand Master Wai Lun Choi once said, "Don't talk about style--only one style--human style!"

[Leif]

There is more in any decent system than one could master in a lifetime, especially only practicing an hour or 2 per day.

 

Some do systems in order to master them, others might have different reasons for their practice (heatlh....feeling better....just to do something hippier than watching TV).

 

Sort of like if I want to see if a new health product works, I would need to take one at a time, not 3 at a time, so I know which one is working.

 

Take one at a time for a year, to see whether it helped....depends on what the goal is. Might work with spiritual goals, but I'm not sure about health goals for example.

 

And with health issues, was it the medications or qigong A or qigong B or walking to work instead of riding car, or better food, that helped....no big deal as long as the problem is gone.

 

 

Also some things just don't mix well with or get along with others.

 

I feel with qigong practices it can actually be a bit dangerous to go messing with a few at the same time, especially when one is new.

 

This quite names some of the reasons why to mix: some mix well, and some that mix are not new.

 

Not that I'm one to talk, having had 2 teachers when I started Bagua, but I'm hoping others have more sense than I did .

 

 

Wasn't bagua a system mixed from other systems .... that would explain why you feel you don't have to mix anymore

 

 

I agree with most of what was posted above...just that it isn't all black&white.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Leif

[BaguaKicksAss]

There's also the there are only so many hours in the day aspect...

 

Good points about training different things which are completely different from each other... I don't see my jewelry making training interfering with my Bagua .

[suninmyeyes]

Personally I am curious about other systems , it is interesting , but practise still same one as from begging . Except some qi gong and tai chi in past for cure/rehabilitation due to the accident .

...and learned a lot of useful stuff from it .

[MERCELESS ONE]

 

thats true and i like that quote, i advanced the best in every system that i practiced when i made it my own. an example when i throw a sidekick i dont just throw a side kick i throw "my side kick" lol (and its known to knock the wind out of ppl)just like i think a side kick to be. when i draw i chi i draw in chi like i draw in chi (with my soul) but thats the way i do it lol! one philosophy i love is to: live it, do it, be it, love it lol!

[thamosh]

Well ill tell you more about my exp and then maybe you will see where im coming from.

 

I head sifu talk about the Jinshen(golden spirit) and buddha belly(internal power generated at the ldt.(sifu always uses terms that others dont)

 

Anywho I got an empowerment from sifu. Sifu told me to get up at 6am to do a particular med. So i got up at 6am did the med and went back to bed. During my sleep I had a dream that i was in my apt and sifu was there. He touched my forehead and all of a sudden a felt this electric energy going thru building and somehow it felt a little golden(best way i can describe it). Then suddenly everything went black and I saw the indigo glow of my third eye and threw the indigo glow I say i grassy field and then I was standing in that field. I heard the masters voice and he said "this the empowerment they would give to the monks at shaolin" and I looked behind me and I seen the shaolin temple. Then I was back in my apt sifu told me i should dress and eat better and then I woke up. I immediately called sifu told him about what happened and all he said was "How did you like it?"

 

My jaw hit the floor.

 

That was one exp.

 

One time i was on the phone talking to someone and i said some good things about sifu and then he beeped in on the other line and said "I like what you just said about me."

 

Another time I was talking to someone on the phone who belonged to another sect and during the phone at sporadic momments i kept seeing sifu's face in my head. Then I just told the person i was talking to that whatever they were doing just to stop. I told them about seeing my masters face in my head. At one point during the convo he saw it too. Later he contacted me again thanking me for warning him because the sect he was part of turned to be not such a good sect and ill leave it at that.

 

Another exp I had happened when I was walking as I like to do. An I passed a church and when I did my shen activated. I contacted sifu who told me that anything with spiritual power will activate my shen. An that you could actually tell how developed someones spiritual power was just by saying their name. Also that there are such objects in this world that hold spiritual that will only activate around someone who's shen power is developed.

 

So when the sun thing happened and sifu explained it and I thought back to the empowerment and what he said about the jinshen it made perfect sense to me.

 

Now to say that I am so great that i can mix 2 powerful systems of cultivation correctly and with success seems a bit incorrect..

Edited January 14, 2014 by thamosh

[BaguaKicksAss]

Some do systems in order to master them, others might have different reasons for their practice (heatlh....feeling better....just to do something hippier than watching TV).

 

Hmmm good point . I feel sort of silly for not realizing this one! Not like I ever wanted to master running for example, nor photography, nor writing, nor.....

 

Take one at a time for a year, to see whether it helped? Maybe in some cases, but I want to get the problem fixed asap, and don't care what helped. Was it the medications or qigong or walking to work instead of riding car, or better food,....no big deal as long as the problem is gone.

Similar with qigongs, some go well alongside.

 

I fortunately picked the right ones at the time when I tried certain ones out for health. I started with qigong, then my teacher told me to come to her taichi classes, but then! I saw she had SWORD classes!!! She was nice, she let me in because I was so enthusiastic (we both knew I wasn't ready). Though a couple of years later she asked someone how I was doing and was happy I'd finally picked one particular path. The Bagua definitely helped health 1000 fold better than the qigong and taichi I had previously learned. Though with each of the above I could tell within a month that they all worked, which was pretty cool. As in worked far far better than just physical exercise.

 

This quite names some of the reasons why to mix: some mix well, and some that mix are not new.

 

I personally think one's health gets better faster sticking with one at a time though, even if the time is only a few months until you find a better one .

 

That's great if you want to master one system. But if you wish to fix some problems...too long.

 

Unless you luck out and choose a good one right off. Though I fully get this.. I some pretty extreme health challenges when I started Bagua... so of *course* I still trained with my old Taichi teacher for the first 3 months while starting up with a traditional Bagua teacher. Was that good enough? Well yes of course, but at the time I wasn't sure, so I also trained with another Bagua teacher who knew some different stuff and some qigong lol. It was at least both Bagua. Things did work far better when I just focused on one set of practices from one teacher solely though. One of my teachers did advise me that it is best to choose one teacher and one path, even if not him. He was right... I finally listened later lol.

 

Wasn't bagua a system mixed from other systems .... that would explain why you feel you don't have to mix anymore

 

Merged by folks who mastered each one half decently before adding another.. but yes... it does contain quite a bit. The fun fighting stuff, the awesome qigong and channel stuff, healing stuff, power training, some neigong and so on and so forth...

 

I think most traditional internal martial arts taught by traditional teachers do have all that as well though.

 

Well that and I'm just as bad as everyone else, there was that MoPai experiment I tried . &*#@$% curiosity . It was really funny when after I ran into some trouble TG told me "it isn't good to mix it with other systems". Yeah that's only something I have been telling magic students for 20 years... duh! ROFL

 

I agree with most of what was posted above...just that it isn't all black&white.

 

I do Flying Phoenix which can only be done when undisturbed. Then what with the free time over the day when in public or with family - thus mix with mudra holding systems, these can be done everywhere. I feel the individual effects of each distinctly, but I will of course not know what contributed for healing or 'personal growth' - but don't care that much about that part either.

 

That sounds like it works, and that they are different enough as well. Also works with the time frames of regular life. My main gripe was say a bit of Flying Pheonix one day, mudras the next day, some Bagua the day after, some taichi the next, then a little random qigong system the next... all cycled through at random....

 

So again, good points everyone about one thing for say fighting, and another for qigong, for example... well unless you are lucky enough and both are included all in one place.

 

Though really, I think that if you want to get to the depth of a particular system, get the closed door stuff, and learn what it is really about, you do need to stick with it for quite a number of years and not just dabble with it and others. I feel you have to put a certain amount of focus and effort into a system for it to open up further for you.

 

Playing the devil's advocate... I do have a Bagua friend who feels that one should "steal the art" where they can, train with more than one person if you can (if they are good) and not mention any side training to each one. He's quite good at what he does. He's been at it all for over 10 years though.

[thamosh]

Cool. Best to you in your practices.

Thx and same to you.

[thelerner]

I've think when young its not so bad to look around, shop around.. get experience but inevitably you have to marry one, and can still flirt with others. Sometimes one will give you deeper insights into another.

 

 

Wait.. were we talking woman or practice?

[thamosh]

I've think when young its not so bad to look around, shop around.. get experience but inevitably you have to marry one, and can still flirt with others. Sometimes one will give you deeper insights into another.

 

 

Wait.. were we talking woman or practice?

 

I agree at some point you have to to take a step and leap.