Why on earth would one practice more than one system?

[MERCELESS ONE]

 

I agree at some point you have to to take a step and leap.

yep thats how babies..i mean new systems are born lol

[Friend]

There is more in any decent system than one could master in a lifetime, especially only practicing an hour or 2 per day.

 

So how come folks practice a few in unison?

Firstly I choose a main system where I work regulary, daily.

Second I choose a project to gain understanding from that piece

and use that piece to gain or get rid something with it and at least

gain an insight for the main system.

 

From time to time one get intoxicated and do this from pure joy

as things unfold.

I can see if you haven't quite picked the best one yet, but still I would think everyone would practice one at a time, to see which is best. Hard to tell if you are practicing 3-4 at once. Sort of like if I want to see if a new health product works, I would need to take one at a time, not 3 at a time, so I know which one is working. Also some things just don't mix well with or get along with others.

If I tell you that I practise 8 different system with one practise..... and some practise is embedded in daily life?

One learn a practise then one master one and then one really start to

practise the system.

But only a year or two, then another, than another? That isn't going to help mastery at all, unfortunately.

 

The reason I wonder is all the talk about the myriad of different systems everyone is posting about.

At time a main practise stops.

First one learn forms and then it becomes formless

when one understand that form is a tool and gain the principles

and evaluates one life.

Mostly one choose something for a purpose and if it is satiesfied to a degree

one let go to choose a new purpose when one see "a chance".

People change with time, warriors stop to fight and seek internal methods.

Health has been gained and now one seek what to do with it.

 

As well : Do one still like the system?

Do you really want to master the system?

 

In my years of practise, to practise becomes more important

than to archive something like mastery, powers, immortality, enlightment.

In the end I see is going to one practise as the chasing , the spiritual materialism

and spritual egoism change and mature.

In the end when the seeking stops one find home and peace is starting

to cultivate itself.

[thamosh]

yep thats how babies..i mean new systems are born lol

 

Interesting...

[dwai]

There is more in any decent system than one could master in a lifetime, especially only practicing an hour or 2 per day.

 

So how come folks practice a few in unison?

 

I can see if you haven't quite picked the best one yet, but still I would think everyone would practice one at a time, to see which is best. Hard to tell if you are practicing 3-4 at once. Sort of like if I want to see if a new health product works, I would need to take one at a time, not 3 at a time, so I know which one is working. Also some things just don't mix well with or get along with others.

 

I feel with qigong practices it can actually be a bit dangerous to go messing with a few at the same time, especially when one is new.

 

I can see focusing on one for many years, then perhaps adding another...

 

But only a year or two, then another, than another? That isn't going to help mastery at all, unfortunately.

 

The reason I wonder is all the talk about the myriad of different systems everyone is posting about.

 

Not that I'm one to talk, having had 2 teachers when I started Bagua, but I'm hoping others have more sense than I did .

 

I figure it's the interestingness and the curiosity to learn and seek more.

sometimes you can use a couple of systems to complement each other. But that calls for significant dedication of time and commitment. So, mostly, I think it's best to stick with one system (at least till you have certain degree of proficiency in it).

[thamosh]

Yeah you dont want to be a jack of all trades but master of none type of practitioner.

[Dainin]

I seem to remember an old story about a great bagua master who fought an equally great xingyi master for three days straight. They then decided that their students should learn each other's art because there were so many complimentary aspects that would fill in their student's knowledge and skills.

[Nungali]

I agree with the OP in as far as not doing this at the beginning.

Not every (or any) system is perfect, some have 'holes' they can be filled in by other practices.
The type of sword work I did in Shorin-Ryu was greatly improved by adding things I learnt in Aikido. A couple of times I scored on the sword instructor in a way that just totally floored him. Also the reverse ; some of the Aikido just seemed SOOOO WRONG! In light of what I learnt in other places, especially Shorin -Ryu. After months, a senior Aikido instructor turns up and freaks out about what his lesser instructor had been teaching us; it was full of 'holes' and co-incidentally he demonstrated that using the techniques I had been using (which I was told were not part of Aikido)

This could be a flaw in Japanese systems alone though, as I have no knowledge of the Chinese systems. Some (if not all) of the Japanese systems are full of weird cultural bullshit (bullshit on an effective martial arts level) and that is for a variety of reasons.

There is also 'cross-training' which can have benefits . Some have giant holes in their systems due to competition and sports applications in their cross-over to self defence, cross-training can reveal it.

Gotta learn to stand up stable before you can run properly though

[Songtsan]

I practice myriad systems - but I like it that way - my system is to explore many systems! Will I be slowed down? Perhaps - but keep in mind that the fun is in the act of exploring to me - not necessarily in the attainment of a far off goal. When I get older and wiser perhaps I will settle down.

[JohnC]

-on the contrary my friends, all the greats mastered multiple systems in order to create one system. donhai chaun, bruce lee, chan sen feng, even in the sciences its the same thing. to get something useful you have to add and take away to get the outcome your looking for, also keeping in mind byproducts of the processes involved. its about understanding, if you understand the processes of the system/systems you practice, you will be able to practice multiple systems at once and utilize more of the aspects. the more you advance you will be able to understand the subtleties of any system you practice and may have insight into others as well. -in practicing any system, one or many, you must know your goal and final outcome that you're hoping to attain, then master a system/systems that have been known to produce that outcome. this goes beyond just nei kung, and bleeds over into life as well. -think about how many sciences it takes to send a rocket ship into space! lol!! but like i said know the outcome you seek because "some ppl just want to swim" science and space isnt interesting lol -the greatest peice of advice i could give to anyone looking to practice one system or many know yourself and what you can handle and go from there peace,love, and chi...ps "curiosity didnt kill every cat it made some of them famous"

 

Totally agree with this.

 

Many of the great masters I've seen have studied and mastered multiple systems condensing it into one system. Hu Yao Zhen did this when he created stillness movement, and Wang Jue Min studied with 5 different masters of different systems and added to the lineage (in what way I'm not sure). Michael Lomax studied with 2, and added Taoist Medicine to the SM lineage.

 

Ming Pang of Zhineng(chi-lel) studied with a number of masters of different lineages consolidating the practices down to a powerful medical qigong.

 

Even Chun Yi Lin of Spring Forest qigong studied with many masters, although I'm not sure who.

 

So all this said, I think dedicating yourself to a lineage is important, and learning from many others is important as well. From there you can add to the spiritual understanding of qigong. But like anything it takes years of practice, and study.

 

The guys that are part of zhineng qigong are really big about this. It's kind of cool how much they experiment with chi to see to what extent they can do stuff.

 

John

[Starjumper]

-on the contrary my friends, all the greats mastered multiple systems in order to create one system. donhai chaun, bruce lee, chan sen feng, even in the sciences its the same thing.

 

i agree.

[Taomeow]

It doesn't matter if you practice one system or fifteen. What matters is if you get the fundamentals. You can apply them to perfecting one art, but if the practice is a fundamental one, it doesn't matter -- the skill is applicable to fifteen others, or more. Just yesterday my taiji teacher was drilling me in directing qi to the hands. This was for taiji, but what would stop me from using this skill for calligraphy? Paining? Healing? Talismanic sorcery? Cooking? Knitting? Stuffing demons in a gourd bottle?..

 

There's fundamental practices and fundamental skills. A fundamental practice is what you may want to give the bulk of your time and dedication. Fundamental skills, however, gained from such practice, can be applied to any other practice you fancy. If you can breathe abdominally, you can reverse breathe abdominally. If you can visualize, you can blank out the screen. If you can open your heart, you can open your joints. If you can open your joints, you can open your meridians. If you can heal yourself, you can heal someone else.

 

If you find that you can't master a fundamental skill doing whatever your current practice is, change the practice. As a potential future immortal from Chen village told us at a workshop, "You don't serve taiji. Taiji serves you."

 

I am no slave to any practice. I do what I love. If love is not there, I won't do it. If I love more than one, I'll do all of them -- provided I don't love being lazy and slacking even more. My heart decides.

[idiot_stimpy]

Rather be open than closed off

[dawei]

This is one of those filed under "Don't practice this at home"... and the underlying meaning is as expected: Not everyone can or should attempt the All Systems are One approach.

 

One has to have something deeply inherent and intuitively secure whereby they can connect dots easily and I don't mean they are good at crossword puzzles.

 

Taomeow summed it up best for me and how I approach it. If I don't feel it deep down, I have no interest in it. And it doesn't matter where it comes from; system, practitioner, born healer, shaman, etc. One will also find they don't need to seek it out, it finds them too.

It is interesting that the great historian Sima Qian said of Daoist, and defined the unfortunate term Dao Jia: That they exemplify the best of every school by assimilating any teaching.

 

I think systems are useful and essential. They have the kind of structure necessary for the majority to continue the system's heritage. While there are some who can do many systems successfully, and some of them can create something unique as well, there is yet others who do it more seamlessly as they don't see any system in the end.

[C T]

A contented heart has no need for variety. This is not to say one is enough... what it means is to have an attitude of sufficiency, where if nothing worthy of practice is presently available, then be satisfied with what is already there. If something worthwhile comes along, then welcome it if there is suitability, if not don't welcome it. The thing to bear in mind is not to hanker or chase after so many systems. The basic confusion arise not from practicing more than one system, but to have that underlying feeling of lack which keeps prodding one from the inside. If such a feeling is not cut away at the root, then even conquering the whole universe will not bring satisfaction... With perspective, timing, and a good measure of gentleness as guide, its ok to explore what comes one's way, without too much worry.

 

 

 

edit.spelling

Edited January 15, 2014 by C T

[Songtsan]

A large part of system jumping is simply 'not feeling it,' or lack of faith in the systems one studies - one has yet to get hooked. At least this is my story.

[C T]

A large part of system jumping is simply 'not feeling it,' or lack of faith in the systems one studies - one has yet to get hooked. At least this is my story.

Hoarding is a very natural human tendency.

[thamosh]

My point is how can you mix to different types of alchemy practice at the same time?

 

And if your current alchemy is deep authentic valid and leads to high attainment why would you waste your time with another system

 

Yes there is bruce and famous alchemists in the past who have mixed stuff to create something new.

 

But let me offer these points.

 

Everyone is not bruce lee he was a rare talent. To bank on you or others doing the same isnt to secure...everyone isnt a genius in thier field....

 

Secondly bruce and the others studied one system for years.

 

Finally alchemy isnt the same as martial arts some energies and some types of alchemy are not compatible.

 

To mix systems just because you think your system is lacking is just ignorant. Not every system develops things at the same time.

 

The spiritual attainment in your school or sect could be very powerful more powerful than what you ever thought possible. Some things are reserved for the indoor the most sincere hard working students.

 

And masters do put them thru various tests.

 

Ive had friends give up on authentic alchemy just to go back to being a seeker and still to this day attained nothing......

 

It happens.

[thetaoiseasy]

.

Edited March 24, 2014 by thetaoiseasy

[Aetherous]

I had an experience recently where I was getting poor results from my sporadic practice. Teacher told me to increase the practice...which seemed like the opposite of what made sense. A little gives bad results, so more seems like there will be really bad results. But I trusted, and apparently he was correct. The issues vanished! As students, we truly don't know as much as we sometimes think...but these experiences of stupidity add to our wisdom. To never fail means you don't know anything except one thing...and that's a recipe for failure.

[Brian]

I figure another 20 or 30 years and it might be time to start learning another system...

 

[Aeran]

Because my bum gets sore if I do nothing but seated meditation

[thamosh]

Mixing systems seems to have more of the spirit of cleverness than the spirit of true wisdom.

 

Your heart is the heart of your body.

 

Sometimes being clever isnt honest and sometimes being honest isnt clever.

 

Being sincere is what matters. Sincerity of the heart shields and redeems you.

 

 

 

Avoid cleverness......for it is the opposite of truth for it is deception masked by self righteousness.

Edited January 15, 2014 by thamosh

[Thunder_Gooch]

Spiritual hoarding?

 

Lot's of people think of spiritual practices like Pokémon, you gotta catch them all.

 

They think if they pick out parts and blend them together they will get some super system or what have you.

 

In reality they just wind up going nowhere and dying just like the rest of us.

 

At least the ride was fun I guess though...

 

Quality... not quantity is important.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Thunder_Gooch

[BaguaKicksAss]

I figure another 20 or 30 years and it might be time to start learning another system...

 

:wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:

 

YaMu is prob thinking the same thing right now about your post .

[BaguaKicksAss]

Spiritual hoarding?

 

Lot's of people think of spiritual practices like pokemon, you gotta catch them all.

 

They think if they pick out parts and blend them together they will get some super system or what have you.

 

In reality they just wind up going nowhere and dying just like the rest of us.

 

At least the ride was fun I guess though...

 

Quality... not quantity is important.

 

That's exactly what it feels like to me sometimes.

 

I also sometimes worry when folks do it too much, as I've seen the fallout from this over the years with some folks.