[QiWork] Regarding Closing Exercise and Massaging stomach Directions

[4bsolute]

Dear Ones,

I want to understand the following:

#1 Do you first apply a Qi Massage onto yourself before you store your energy into your LDT, or after the storing process? Please elaborate why one after the other.

#2 What happens, energetically, when you massage the abdomen clockwise? What does this spiral-motion do to the energy flow that soon after the massage reaches your body again, naturally? The clockwise motion, does it Open the energy flow, or close it? Or what does it do? What does the counterclockwise motion do?

#3 What is the difference between the following methods:
- Laying the left hand ontop of the right hand and massaging the abdomen 36x times (yang) clockwise, going from the inside to the outside and then 24x times (yin) counterclockwise, going from the outside to the inside
- Interlock your hands and massage the abdomen in a clockwise motion 36 times, from the inside to the outside

 

What is the difference?

#3.1 What does the 24x yin ontop of the previous 36x yang do? (speaking of the vortexes in #2)

I am seeking precise answers, not personal opinions. I want to understand the physical and metaphysical part here in detail.

Thank you very much in advance for both reading and replying.

Love & Light

Edited January 15, 2014 by 4bsolute

[4bsolute]

Anyone?

[soaring crane]

You're asking too much and placing demands on people. Nobody is going to write a book just for you. And nobody wants to be told that their opinion is not welcome .

 

You ask too many questions that take a LOT of time and effort to answer. You have to learn to do your own research first instead of simply posting a request in a forum and expecting a comprehensive answer.

 

And then bumping your thread when you grow impatient because you didn't get an answer quickly enough, I call that 'mutig' ;-)

[4bsolute]

You're asking too much and placing demands on people.

 

Do I? I am sorry. Thank you for your concerns.

 

 

their opinion is not welcome.

 

Yes, lets inject an image into your thinking aparatus about what will happen when one continues to practice incorrect teachings, based on personal opinions, neglecting certain fixed universal principles.

 

 

You have to learn to do your own research first

 

Right, because leaving a forum empty in that manner, probably not cutting other people's questions that address the same issue is false. The opposite.

 

Could be that one researches parallel to posting topics.. could be that one is not solely relying on one source of information, especially when it's opinion based.. could be that one lateron edits his own thread because one has figured out the question by oneself prior to someones reply.. could be, just could be.

 

 

I call that 'mutig' ;-)

 

Yes, my lung is working perfectly fine. Again, thank you.

Edited January 17, 2014 by 4bsolute

[ralis]

The OP needs to read the myriad posts over the years. Use the search engine provided at the top of every page. No one is going to do all your homework for you! This incessant pestering is annoying.

[Apech]

Well! slightly bad tempered answers so far

 

To the OP.

 

Where did you get these exercises from? If a book - then try going to a teacher for guidance.

 

If a teacher ask them.

 

Most people do exercises like this because they are taught as part of a set. This usually comes with a general idea about the effect of each exercise but not always the detailed mechanism in each case. Cos you don't need it ... just do the exercise an feel the effects. If you can feel qi then this is the best thing ... try it and see what it does. That's the best answer I can give. I realise it probably doesn't suit your needs at the moment but at least I tried.

[4bsolute]

Well! slightly bad tempered answers so far

 

To the OP.

 

Where did you get these exercises from? If a book - then try going to a teacher for guidance.

 

If a teacher ask them.

 

Most people do exercises like this because they are taught as part of a set. This usually comes with a general idea about the effect of each exercise but not always the detailed mechanism in each case. Cos you don't need it ... just do the exercise an feel the effects. If you can feel qi then this is the best thing ... try it and see what it does. That's the best answer I can give. I realise it probably doesn't suit your needs at the moment but at least I tried.

 

Oh and how your answer helped, because it was fully honest. Honesty, truth is no opinion. It's just your and my current state of experience. Through further practice one should feel the flow and the answers come, yes.

 

I already contacted both teachers in text form, since I am on the other end of the world no replies yet. Like said, I will post the correct answers once I have figured it out.

 

Again, thank you.

[soaring crane]

Well! slightly bad tempered answers so far

 

To the OP.

 

Where did you get these exercises from? If a book - then try going to a teacher for guidance.

 

If a teacher ask them.

 

Most people do exercises like this because they are taught as part of a set. This usually comes with a general idea about the effect of each exercise but not always the detailed mechanism in each case. Cos you don't need it ... just do the exercise an feel the effects. If you can feel qi then this is the best thing ... try it and see what it does. That's the best answer I can give. I realise it probably doesn't suit your needs at the moment but at least I tried.

 

yeah, but that's just your opinion It's actually not much different than what I wrote, just a little more diplomatic

[SonOfTheGods]

Dear Ones,

 

 

Love & Light

You still reading all that channeling stuff, aren't you?

[ChiDragon]

Dear Ones,

 

I want to understand the following:

 

#1 Do you first apply a Qi Massage onto yourself before you store your energy into your LDT, or after the storing process? Please elaborate why one after the other.

 

Where did you get the idea that Qi massage onto youeself....???

Why do you think that energy can be stored in your LDT....???

[SonOfTheGods]

Why do you think that energy can be stored in your LDT....???

[soaring crane]

 

Why do you think that energy can be stored in your LDT....???

 

Exactly. And absolutely the only place a query such as that in the OP can possibly lead. It's unfortunate that 4bsolute can't understand that simple inevitability.

 

 

[ChiDragon]

#2 What happens, energetically, when you massage the abdomen clockwise? What does this spiral-motion do to the energy flow that soon after the massage reaches your body again, naturally? The clockwise motion, does it Open the energy flow, or close it? Or what does it do? What does the counterclockwise motion do?

Your abdomen can only move in and out to massage your internal organs when your Chi was sunken to the LDT while doing the Chi Kung breathing. It makes no difference when you massage your abdomen, externally, in the clockwise or counterclockwise direction with your hands. Nothing happens unless you perform the Chi Kung breathing constantly.

 

 

Edited to add:

The rotational motion with the hands on the abdomen has no biological nor physiological effect on the body internally. It's only a fallacy if one was told it does....!!!

Edited January 18, 2014 by ChiDragon

[soaring crane]

Your abdomen can only move in and out to massage your internal organs when your Chi was sunken to the LDT while doing the Chi Kung breathing. It makes no difference when you massage your abdomen, externally, in the clockwise or counterclockwise direction with your hands.

 

I can rotate my abdomen it all directions, up, down, sideways, clockwise, counter-clockwise and all directions in between. I think everyone can.

 

Clockwise rotation disperses and distributes; counter-clockwise collects and compresses. Massaging with the hands intensifies the action and allows you to really greet the individual organs.

 

Even numbers (including 36) contain a yin element; odd numbers (27 for example) are yang. So it makes most sense to rotate an odd/yang number at the yin regions of the body, to combine yin with yang; and a yin, even, number of rotations in yang regions, for the same reason. But that's just my opinion, of course, so it isn't actually relevant to the discussion.

[ChiDragon]

........... But that's just my opinion, of course, so it isn't actually relevant to the discussion.

 

I am seeking precise answers, not personal opinions. I want to understand the physical and metaphysical part here in detail.

 

 

Thank you very much in advance for both reading and replying.

 

Love & Light

 

Thank you.....!!!

[Ya Mu]

Do you think one may want to consider natural peristalsis when choosing pressure and direction of an abdominal "qi massage"?

[ChiDragon]

Do you think one may want to consider natural peristalsis when choosing pressure and direction of an abdominal "qi massage"?

 

Natural peristalsis is not as vigorous as the abdominal movement while performing Chi Kung breathing. Abdominal breathing is more dynamical and mechanical which may prevent constipation due the constant massage of the intestines.

Edited January 18, 2014 by ChiDragon

[soaring crane]

Do you think one may want to consider natural peristalsis when choosing pressure and direction of an abdominal "qi massage"?

Do you mean to effect different results depending on the situation?

 

I generally think about Qi flow through the wuxing organs - liver up, spleen down etc

[Friend]

Do you mean to effect different results depending on the situation?

 

I generally think about Qi flow through the wuxing organs - liver up, spleen down etc

There are different theories.

 

The Wuxing organs follow a different route of direction of massage.

When you watch the direction of massage in the circular and reverse clock massage you see

that mostly the large intestine which looks like a circle.

 

A greater number in direction is to tonifiying the organ while the reverse direction is to sedate it.

If you see the difference 36-24 = 9.

I am just asking myself why one not stay in a state of meditation after 36 circles to let the enhanced

state work before sedating it with 24 to maintain a 9+ tonify.

[Starjumper]

Dear Ones,

 

I want to understand the following:

 

#1 Do you first apply a Qi Massage onto yourself before you store your energy into your LDT, or after the storing process? Please elaborate why one after the other.

 

#2 What happens, energetically, when you massage the abdomen clockwise? What does this spiral-motion do to the energy flow that soon after the massage reaches your body again, naturally? The clockwise motion, does it Open the energy flow, or close it? Or what does it do? What does the counterclockwise motion do?

 

#3 What is the difference between the following methods:

- Laying the left hand ontop of the right hand and massaging the abdomen 36x times (yang) clockwise, going from the inside to the outside and then 24x times (yin) counterclockwise, going from the outside to the inside

- Interlock your hands and massage the abdomen in a clockwise motion 36 times, from the inside to the outside

 

What is the difference?

 

#3.1 What does the 24x yin ontop of the previous 36x yang do? (speaking of the vortexes in #2)

 

I am seeking precise answers, not personal opinions. I want to understand the physical and metaphysical part here in detail.

 

Thank you very much in advance for both reading and replying.

 

Love & Light

 

 

My teacher was of this opinion about all this counting and spiraling larger or smaller or going one way or the other: It's a bunch of bullshit.

 

I therefore assume that people come up with this kind of bullshit in order to make themselves seem smarter and more knowledgeable. Beware the fundamentalists.

 

What we do in my practice is massage the belly during the sitting exercises which comes after the moving standing exercises and before the sitting meditation. I suppose there is a reason for that sequence but don't know what it is.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Starjumper

[Friend]

My teacher was of this opinion about all this counting and spiraling larger or smaller or going one way or the other: It's a bunch of bullshit.

 

I therefore assume that people come up with this kind of bullshit in order to make themselves seem smarter and more knowledgeable. Beware the fundamentalists.

 

What we do in my practice is massage the belly during the sitting exercises which comes after the moving standing exercises and before the sitting meditation. I suppose there is a reason for that sequence but don't know what it is.

Indeed there is seperation. Numbers are there from ancient times of use of numerolgy, astrology and divination.

Some number are auspicious and they choice is made from this.

I think there has to do something with affirmation and making the subconcious direct to the goal.

If one culitvate one try to use every trick to raise the chances even if one adds to the real effect placebo

and lower the nocebo effect.

 

Also if one exercise in groups some like to create some synchronisation to enlarge the group effect of

exercise. In group exercise a homogenous state is prefered and each individual change can be considered

as disturbance in some groups, like not moving or making sounds.

One allign heartbeat, breath and concious state.

The teacher is then there to reduce the disturbance with projection and guidance.

 

Another thing is to keep a certain time with the practise especially if one has no idea when what is done.

Actually one has do things closing until it is closes and counting 100 and if one is not closed yet then it is ineffective

as it is timewaste when one close at 2 while the official says 36, so this is BS if one knows what one do

and can observer what is done and when it is done.

 

I actually inherit a Qigong Set privately which have no time

or count or even hint when what is seeing as enough.

While others have counting breath, heartbeat, orienting at clock,repetition, or

just by observation of the energy system.

[Starjumper]

Also if one exercise in groups some like to create some synchronisation to enlarge the group effect of

exercise. In group exercise a homogenous state is preferred and each individual change can be considered

as disturbance in some groups ...

 

That's a good point, I've felt the same way.

[4bsolute]

You still reading all that channeling stuff, aren't you?

 

It is getting toxic here. Thank you for making this so clear to me.

[SonOfTheGods]

It is getting toxic here. Thank you for making this so clear to me.

if you are going to start a thread with "dear ones" and end it with "love and light"- expect it.

 

This ain't Ramtha, this is QI GONG