Thoughts on destiny

[Urpflanze]

"Well, if one has not yet controlled their fears then the story would still be valid."

 

Well, fear is an emotion evoked by facing Death. If the emotion be joy evoked by facing Happiness. Will any rapturous action on his part in the light of Happiness be considered stupid?

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

There is providence in the fall of a Sparrowhawk.

 

Ged it?

...

Edited January 20, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[ThisLife]

So, basically, one finds a way to run into his fate? Well, if we replace Death with Happiness here. In that context, will the action of the servant seem unreasonable or unworthy? Will the moral of the story crumble?

 

 

 

 

 

My take on this is that the message contained in this story will be missed for as long as one sees oneself as "separate" from one's fate. (As illustrated by the first sentence of your reply,... "So, basically, one finds a way to run into his fate ?")

 

My feeling is that "I", and "my destiny", have always been exactly the same thing, at every moment from when I was born till the day I die. The theory would continue that this situation holds true for every single thing which exists. This moment, for every 'thing',... is just like one frame in a film strip of constant change. And all the film strips of existence are playing at the same time, powered by the same source,...Consciousness. (Or Tao, if you prefer).

 

Anyway, that's just my take on a subject for which there will be a gazillion and one different opinions.

[Marblehead]

"Well, if one has not yet controlled their fears then the story would still be valid."

 

Well, fear is an emotion evoked by facing Death. If the emotion be joy evoked by facing Happiness. Will any rapturous action on his part in the light of Happiness be considered stupid?

Interesting your response. I watched something last night on TV that spoke to fear. They suggested that fear is the emotion experienced by facing the unknown. Some fears are instinctual while others may be a result of rational, or irrational, thought.

 

I have stated here many times before that I love my emotions. They give me a more thorough experience of life. Yes, after having experienced happiness then it is likely that the emotion of joy would be experienced. But what if the person had to enter the unknown in order to experience happiness and fear prevented them from making that journey?

[Marblehead]

...

There is providence in the fall of a Sparrowhawk.

 

Ged it?

...

No, I don't get it. Say more please.

[Marblehead]

Anyway, that's just my take on a subject for which there will be a gazillion and one different opinions.

True.

 

But I wonder. Your example above would lead many to assume a nihilistic mentality, wouldn't it?

[ThisLife]

True.

 

But I wonder. Your example above would lead many to assume a nihilistic mentality, wouldn't it?

 

I'm not sure that any person has any choice in the philosophies that they find themselves attracted to,.... or what happens to them as a result of following, (or not following) the impulse of this attraction. For some people, perhaps nihilim would result. For others, not. And for the vast majority, there would be virtually zero interest.

 

Like Kurt Vonnegut would say,..."So it goes."

 

If you're interested, the clearest and most concise explanation of what I'm fumbling around here trying to say, (and the fumbling is because the knowledge isn't my own,... just second-hand reporting),... Anyway, if you're interested,:

 

*

 

To understand either destiny or free will, we have to first consider the Totality of ‘What Is’. Everything that ever was, or ever will be, is part of this vast Totality of ‘What Is’. Destiny and free will are simply strategies for making sense of the vastness of ‘What Is’.

 

Both terms are a kind of practical shorthand in which the holographic universe is made linear, and this linear conception is simply an overlay. It’s an intellectual, organisational overlay on top of the Totality of ‘What Is’, (in the same way that whichever transparency we place over the light source of an overhead projector will determine the image the image that we see projected in front of us onto the wall.)

 

Neither destiny nor free will actually describes the functioning of the universe. Yet people subscribing to one overlay endlessly argue with people subscribing to the other overlay.

 

There is ultimately neither destiny nor free will. There is only ‘What Is’.

[9th]

Hey 9th,

 

I enjoyed the reading until you got to the trinity. Everything after that was beyond me.

 

 

It was a very concise summary, perhaps too concise for some. The figure given along with that description is thus:

 

 

In all instances the addition of a new element is accomplished by way of harmonious balance. The symmetry of the geometric symbols helps to show this.

 

The process refers to the generation of the four higher bodies.

 

G. also gives an alternate description using another metaphor:

 

 

"An Eastern teaching describes the functions of the four bodies, their gradual growth, and the conditions of this growth, in the following way:

 

"Let us imagine a vessel or a retort filled with various metallic powders. The powders are not in any way connected with each other and every accidental change in the position of the retort changes the relative position of the powders. If the retort be shaken or tapped with the finger, then the powder which was at the top may appear at the bottom or in the middle, while the one which was at the bottom may appear at the top. There is nothing permanent in the position of the powders and under such con­ditions there can be nothing permanent. This is an exact picture of our psychic life. Each succeeding moment, new influences may change the position of the powder which is on the top and put in its place another which is absolutely its opposite. Science calls this state of the powders the state of mechanical mixture. The essential characteristic of the interrelation of the powders to one another in this kind of mixture is the instability of these interrelations and their variability.

 

"It is impossible to stabilize the interrelation of powders in a state of mechanical mixture. But the powders may be fused; the nature of the powders makes this possible. To do this a special kind of fire must be lighted under the retort which, by heating and melting the powders, finally fuses them together. Fused in this way the powders will be in the state of a chemical compound. And now they can no longer be separated by those simple methods which separated and made them change places when they were in a state of mechanical mixture. The contents of the retort have become indivisible, 'individual.' This is a picture of the formation of the second body.

 

"The fire by means of which fusion is attained is produced by 'friction,' which in its turn is produced in man by the struggle between 'yes' and 'no.' If a man gives way to all his desires, or panders to them, there will be no inner struggle in him, no 'friction,' no fire. But if, for the sake of attaining a definite aim, he struggles with desires that hinder him, he will then create a fire which will gradually transform his inner world into a single whole.

 

"Let us return to our example. The chemical compound obtained by fusion possesses certain qualities, a certain specific gravity, a certain electrical conductivity, and so on. These qualities constitute the characteristics of the substance in question. But by means of work upon it of a certain kind the number of these characteristics may be increased, that is, the alloy may be given new properties which did not primarily belong to it. It may be possible to magnetize it, to make it radioactive, and so on.

 

"The process of imparting new properties to the alloy corresponds to the process of the formation of the third body and of the acquisition of new knowledge and powers with the help of the third body.

 

"When the third body has been formed and has acquired all the properties, powers, and knowledge possible for it, there remains the problem of fixing this knowledge and these powers, because, having been imparted to it by influences of a certain kind, they may be taken away by these same influences or by others. By means of a special kind of work for all three bodies the acquired properties may be made the permanent and inalienable possession of the third body.

 

"The process of fixing these acquired properties corresponds to the process of the formation of the fourth body.

 

"And only the man who possesses four fully developed bodies can be called a 'man' in the full sense of the word. This man possesses many properties which ordinary man does not possess. One of these properties is immortality. All religions and all ancient teachings contain the idea that, by acquiring the fourth body, man acquires immortality; and they all contain indications of the ways to acquire the fourth body, that is, immortality.

[Marblehead]

Okay. I'm not sure I wanted to know all that though. Hehehe.

 

So, sure I agree that over time if we are open to growth there will be growth.

 

I don't hold to the concept of immortality so that one is out for me.

[9th]

"This is ordinary man," he said, "man number one, two, three, and four. He has only the physical body. The physical body dies and nothing is left of it. The physical body is composed of earthly material and at death it returns to earth. It is dust and to dust it returns. It is impossible to talk of any kind of 'immortality' for a man of this sort.

 

"But if a man has the second body" (he placed the second body on the diagram parallel to the planets), "this second body is composed of material of the planetary world and it can survive the death of the physical body. It is not immortal in the full sense of the word, because after a certain period of time it also dies. But at any rate it does not die with the physical body.

 

"If a man has the third body" (he placed the third body on the diagram parallel to the sun), "it is composed of material of the sun and it can exist after the death of the 'astral' body.

 

"The fourth body is composed of material of the starry world, that is, of material that does not belong to the solar system, and therefore, if it has crystallized within the limits of the solar system there is nothing within this system that could destroy it. This means that a man possessing the fourth body is immortal within the limits of the solar system.

[Marblehead]

Okay. I guess I'm going to die when I die. But that's okay, I have had a good life.

 

BTW We all are star stuff. Every element except hydrogen was created in a star.

 

For those seeking immortality I offer my strength and energy.

 

But while we are here on this plane we can communicate with each other.

 

Hehehe. Life is pretty easy, really, for we Materialists who have realized that we have enough.

[9th]

On 1/20/2014 at 4:22 PM, 9th said:

"The fourth body is composed of material of the starry world, that is, of material that does not belong to the solar system, and therefore, if it has crystallized within the limits of the solar system there is nothing within this system that could destroy it. This means that a man possessing the fourth body is immortal within the limits of the solar system.

 

"Or do you perhaps think that the Father is a lover of mankind, or that he is won over without prayers, or that he grants remission to one on another's behalf, or that he bears with one who asks?  

"For he knows the desire, and also what it is that the flesh needs! 

"Is it not this flesh that desires the soul? For without the soul, the flesh does not sin, just as the soul is not saved without the spirit. 

"But if the soul is saved when it is without evil, and the spirit is also saved, then the flesh becomes free from sin. For it is the spirit that raises the soul, but the flesh that kills it - that is, it is that which kills itself. 

"Verily, I say unto you, he will not forgive the soul  its sin by any means, nor the flesh its guilt; for none of those who have worn the flesh will be saved. Do you think that many have found the kingdom of heaven? Blessed is he who has seen himself as a fourth one in heaven!

"Hearken to the word, understand knowledge, love life, and no one will persecute you, nor will anyone oppress you, other than you yourselves.

"O you wretches; O you unfortunates; O you pretenders to the truth; O you falsifiers of knowledge; O you sinners against the Spirit: can you still bear to listen, when it behooved you to speak from the first? Can you still bear to sleep, when it behooved you to be awake from the first, so that the kingdom of heaven might receive you? 

"Verily, I say unto you, had I been sent to those who listen to me, and had I spoken with them, I would never have come down to earth. So, then, be ashamed for these things."

"Behold, I shall depart from you and go away, and do not wish to remain with you any longer, just as your yourselves have not wished it. 

"Now, therefore, follow me quickly. This is why I say unto you, 'For your sakes I came down.' You are the beloved; you are they who will be the cause of life in many."

And when we had heard these words, we became glad, for we had been grieved at the words we have mentioned before. But when he saw us rejoicing, he said, 

"Woe to you who lack an advocate! Woe to you who stand in need of grace! Blessed will they be who have spoken out and obtained grace for themselves. Liken yourselves to foreigners; of what sort are they in the eyes of your city? Why are you disturbed when you cast yourselves away of your own accord and separate yourselves from your city? Why do you abandon your dwelling place of your own accord, making it ready for those who want to dwell in it? O you outcasts and fugitives, woe to you, for you will be caught!"

 

-  Apocryphon of James

 

[Everything]

There is no way, your life will not get better.

There is no way, you will not find the clarity and knowledge to live your dreams, beyond your wildest fantasies.

It is destined for you to be granted all that you desire and wish.

It is destined that you are with the person whom you have the greatest of love towards.

It is destined that you will be supported in an everlasting spree of healthy, abbundant, and ever inspiring extacy of joyful experiences, one better than the previous.

That you be supported in your wildest of passions.

That you be supported in the ongoing ever unfolding splendour of your love for all that is held dear to you. 

Now run, boy. Run. For your destiny, is coming. And there is no way, to escape it. So run as hard as you can. For your destiny will morph around every path you thread, and fulfill the desires held so dearly by you, that your feet will shiver and fall in grace and awe, towards all that you have ever wished, and ever more into all that might ever be desired and wanted in life after life after life, that is ALL but one life, of everlasting satisfaction. 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Everything

[Marblehead]

That is very optimistic, Everything.

 

With a destiny like that who would need free will?

 

 

[Rickie]

There are things I know are going to happen.  Some things I'm pretty sure will happen.  Some things will be surprises.  And there is a whole lot of stuff I don't nor will never know.  I have influence over some and none over most.  Does that mean my destiny is determined?  I may never know but I'll live like I have control of my destiny and will deal with anything that comes at me the best I can.  I couldn't live my life thinking I had no control of my destiny.  I may be a fool but it works for me. :-)

[Boundlesscostfairy]

Everything is planned and determined until the very instant that you change your mind..

 

Everything is planned and determined by those in charge of your life.. And that includes you!

 

So the ultimate qualm.. is when another person acts in a way that is counter to your best interest.. or even when you make a choice that ends up being worse than a plan and determination that had already existed.