An AYP'er looking for other Ways

[Oculus]

Hi all!

 

I found the TB forum through this thread (http://thetaobums.com/topic/25632-a-review-of-ayp-from-an-ex-practitioner/) which I am grateful for.

 

I was Googling on similarities between AYP and TM and got to this thread.

 

 

A 'short' background on me: In 2007 I found the AYP site as I was looking for some spiritual guidance. Being a big David Lynch fan, I (obviously) learned about TM and thought it sounded very interesting. I searched around a bit and found AYP and thought it seemed amazing.

 

I started practicing and one night just a few sessions in, I tried a different mantra that I found somewhere (I believe it was 'IYEMA') instead of 'I AM' and boom! I fell deep within to the 'silent noise' and had an awesome experience. After this I never reached that state again. Probably because I was now striving for the experience instead of staying on the Mantra.

 

A short while after, I had a crisis in my life and the meditation was out the window. After this, I've returned to AYP practicing a few times on and off, and started about a week ago up until yesterday, when I found the thread I mentioned and started to look critically on AYP and TM.

 

 

First, I have a few questions regarding stuff talked of in the thread:

 

What is 'torpor'?

 

What is meant by 'overload'?

 

 

as far as it goes, the critical input of the thread has made me think twice about AYP and I am now looking for something more solid.

 

I still want all the 'goodies' that AYP claims, like; pure consciousness, finding the Self, Inner Peace, stress relief, clarity,etc.

 

 

Therefore I ask the people of this forum for advice on what path to take. Are there other practices out there which one can learn by himself, but that are more solid and true than the AYP and TM models?

 

 

Any kind of input would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Kind regards

 

Oculus

Edited January 19, 2014 by Oculus

[RiverSnake]

If your interested in mantra work and achieving higher states of Being....you may find Mark Griffin's stuff quite profound and powerful. I have heard nothing but good things about him. Do a search on the forum and you should find some useful stuff.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Hi!

 

What I meant by 'torpor' is the mental factor of zoning out. An equivalent event for listening to a radio would be the radio tuning out into static. This is like a trance state.

 

I think that the AYP methods generate this mental factor, and mistake it for 'inner stillness' because it is peaceful and quiet (actually there are still thoughts going on, but you aren't noticing them). True meditation should involve stable focus with vivid attention.

 

The difference between AYP torpor and a quiet mind with vivid attention is something you have to experience to see just how misguided AYP is.

 

Torpor can also be called laxity, sloth or dullness.

 

By 'overload' I mean overdoing a practice, especially a misguided practice, such that it harms you. This can take the form of 'kundalini syndrome', and many cases can be found by browsing the AYP forums.

 

A more robust form of practice IMHO is 'shamatha' meditation, which is well covered by the Buddhist tradition but is also a key part of Raja Yoga and others. Don't think you have to subscribe to Buddhism to develop your mind, it's nonsectarian.

 

The principle of shamatha is to train the mind to be relaxed, focused and vivid. This makes the mind truly clear and quiet. The end goal of shamatha is access concentration, when there is no distraction or torpor, and the mind can be focused at will on anything with extreme precision. A level of consciousness deeper than the mind, the 'substrate consciousness' can then be accessed, which has been described as "bliss like the warmth of a fire, luminosity like the dawn, non-conceptuality like an ocean unmoved by waves".

 

The significance of this is that once you have access concentration, any insights you get through other practices such as 'vipashyana' penetrate through to the substrate consciousness, and, as the substrate consciousness is the root of the mind, therefore are permanent. So if you want to realise the nature of self, you could theoretically do vipashyana now and realise the nature of self, but it would be more difficult to do with a cloudy mind, and the realisation would be temporary and incomplete. Access concentration makes it far far easier to have profound realisations, and stamps them in forever.

 

Detailed clear instructions and explanation are here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Attention-Revolution-Unlocking-Focused-v-ution/dp/0861712765/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1390140535&sr=1-1&keywords=the+attention+revolution

 

Here's helpful free audio recordings from a shamatha retreat with guided meditations: https://archive.org/details/ShamathaRetreatWithAlanWallace2012

 

I said a lot there, and you'll probably have further questions. Feel free to send me a PM, and good luck finding a better path.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Seeker of Tao

[Jeff]

Hi Oculus,

 

 

AYP has been debated many times on the bums and you will find some strong opinions here. While I am not an AYP practicioner myself, I am familiar with the system and have visited a couple of their retreats. I am also friends with many of their leaders and a frequent poster on their forum (often in their other systems section).

 

 

Overload comes from a build up of energy that is greater than the person has the current clarity to support. Examples of overload can range from feelings of irritation to energy spasms. The AYP method for dealing with such situations is to simply cut back on the practices. Other systems have various additional approaches. This topic specifically is one that I have disagreed with Yogani on a few times.

 

 

While I would disagree with Seeker as to where AYP leads, given that it is a do it yourself practice, I would agree that many members mistake various states for something they are not. In the absence of a teacher, it is easy for the ego to believe all sorts of things about levels of advancement.

 

 

If you have specific questions, feel free to post them, or if you prefer, you can pm me too.

 

 

Regards,

Jeff

 

(Edit - iPad format error)

Edited January 19, 2014 by Jeff

[Seeker of Wisdom]

I also want to add that mantra is a good thing - I use it myself - but recite mantras consciously, understanding what they mean, and use time-tested mantras such as in Hinduism, Buddhism, Sufism and so on.

 

Reciting them laxly, allowing them to lose crispness of sound, as in AYP and TM, is relaxing but the high road to torpor. It's just repeating something until your mind tunes out.

 

Reciting them consciously, with the meaning in mind, is a good way to set up rhythmic healthy chi flow and instil the positive idea expressed by the mantra in your mind.

 

But if you want access concentration - that profound clarity, vividness and stability - that is not what mantra is for. Practice shamatha for that. Chanting a mantra involves deliberately using the surface mind, creating an oscillating thought, so don't use mantra as a shamatha practice. They are both great, but don't mix them up as they do different things.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi Oculus,

 

 

AYP has been debated many times on the bums and you will find some strong opinions here. While I am not an AYP practicioner myself, I am familiar with the system and have visited a couple of their

...

Regards,

Jeff

 

(Edit - iPad format error)

Hi Jeff

Do you actually practice anything still?

You can visit a restaurant, make friends with the management, see some people eat there (and complain about the food) but unless you actually eat the food you have no right to "review" or pass judgement on what is being served.

 

Become a practitioner instead of an arm chair athlete, dedicate hours and hours of your time to practice instead of rumination. Open your mouth, but instead of spewing forth your usual banal diatribe and nonsensical questions, put something in it instead. Digest it. Many times. See if you get indigestion. Become a practitioner instead of an observer/commentator.

 

[Jeff]

Hi Jeff

Do you actually practice anything still?

You can visit a restaurant, make friends with the management, see some people eat there (and complain about the food) but unless you actually eat the food you have no right to "review" or pass judgement on what is being served.

Become a practitioner instead of an arm chair athlete, dedicate hours and hours of your time to practice instead of rumination. Open your mouth, but instead of spewing forth your usual banal diatribe and nonsensical questions, put something in it instead. Digest it. Many times. See if you get indigestion. Become a practitioner instead of an observer/commentator.

 

Hi TI,

 

Good to hear from you, it has been a while.

 

I have "tasted" the AYP food and personally found it a little bland. I have suggested adding many different seasonings, but everyone has different tastes. Additionally, if you happen to still stop by the old restaurant, you will see that I constantly sneak my food cart into the parking lot.

 

As to my personal practices, you can find descriptions in my many posts and threads (most recently on Christian mysticism and transmission). But mostly, as we discussed in our old discussions, I continue to constantly dive deeper into the "inner heart".

 

I hope you are well. Best wishes,

Jeff

[Oculus]

Thanks to all replies. This is a sufficient start!

 

 

Kind regards

 

 

Oculus

[mas]

I also got inspired to look further, week into deep meditation, after reading Seeker's review of AYP.

 

I had some experience with TM a few years back (also as a big Lynch fan and generally just susceptible to the mystique probably).

 

After learning the technique I found out TM wants me to attend weekly "tune ups". At least for a month after the start of practice they wanted me there religiously, and so I went. At one of the tune up meetings they were showing videos of Maharishi as usual and adding commentaries to what Maharishi said, partly because it was hard to understand his accent. I had some questions and was expecting an honest, intelligent answer. But TM teachers are not actually allowed to talk their hearts out as they please. Their ways are very scripted, and I assume that's what Maharishi wanted. That was a big red flag for me, because if the meditation is there to awaken creativity and intelligence, than teachers should embody that in the way they conduct themselves. Instead it was as if Guru didn't trust anyone to do the job well, and scripted the hell out of his teaching. I couldn't hang with it because it seemed very contrived and insincere to me. Offers of upgrades and fancy hotel retreats started coming in shortly after initiation. I discovered that initial mantra was only an entry level and that I could aspire to potentially spend thousands of dollars on certain upgrades to my practice. It started to feel like it was a bit of a scam.

 

When I found AYP and tried the deep meditation I was excited at first to discover that there is another technique so similar to TM but more transparent and generous. In doing my due diligence and researching true accounts of the practice, I found Seeker's review and became alert. Kundalini, pranayama, all those foreign terms with unknown meanings - it better be trustworthy and not some fiddling about. I honestly never even thought that a spiritual practice can be harmful, I just thought it will at worst not yield any results.

 

Anyway, I am so glad that I found this forum to read up on real accounts of spiritual processes and educate myself some. I'll start with a few new reads recommended here as well as Shamatha practice. I feel my decision to stick to a practice is set strongly this time around and I want to avoid any cult like scams to ensure continued practice. The amount of people selling stuff with a promise of total bliss out and enlightenment is just ridiculous.

 

Thanks y'all!