Avoiding takedowns & then ... other videos.

[Aetherous]

[Nungali]

Yeah you could technically but the problem with neck breaks just like any technique is that you have to do them in order to get good at them. That's why Judo, Bjj, Muay Thai, some Chen tai chi guys, Some bagua guys like Serge Augier, train live sparring. You have to use it in pressure situations. Also as you can see both Bjj guy and Taichi guy were more friendly sparring than anything. In bjj first thing you learn is how to get out of that headlock, but it's not very friendly.

Exactly ... I saw no elbows to the back of the head or no knee to the face when the BJJ guy could have easily done it.

 

I was mostly talking about non- frielndlies ... except for my JJ friend ...

 

also, there isnt much point in biting if you are well locked up ... it might just make them madder ... my bite example was to show the kid how vulnerable he was from a badly executed technique.

 

Smarts are very important ... once I was locked up by someone ... it was supposed to have been friendly but the guy got frustrated and then really got the shits with me as I did the same techniques 4 times in a row on him ... as soon as I got in trouble I tapped out and he automatically let go then he really got the shits and wanted to go again!

 

Me; "Nah! ... You win ! "

[Andrei]

It's old stuff but really good:

 

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Okay, did a search on Yuen Chuan. 'Nuff said.

[Starjumper]

 

Just for fun.

[Starjumper]

Okay, did a search on Yuen Chuan. 'Nuff said.

 

 

Actually it's Yueng Chuan, just in case, and I can't recall if I mentioned it here yet, but I have Yueng Chuan info and videos in my personal practice section.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

Starjumper, any links about Yueng Chuan?

 

See above post.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

Also you have to realize the necks of most judo guys and bjj guys are built like tanks from all the neck grabbing and chokes. The muscles around the necks of the top levels guys are unreal. Also since I am also in med school breaking ones neck from twisting it is very very hard. Our neck muscle even untrained are very hard and resistant when put under pressure. Forget when adrenalin kicks in you become super man. Lol. That why you aim for easier targets to hurt with minimum power..

 

Yes, I've noticed the neck muscles on those guys and I can imagine how it would be difficult to break even with twisting. Keep in mind that we don't fight. This stuff is used more like when going trolling for muggers, they don't usually have such big neck muscles. It's also taught to special forces with the goal of taking out enemy combatants in a big hurry, and most of them don't have such special neck muscles. There were also CIA guys who came to the classes. So, it's serious stuff, and it's so far from the kinds of things that are done in a boxing ring, so far, really far. Many big bad famous martial artists have come to class and tried to punch one of my teachers, and the results were typically hilarious.

 

If I was threatened by someone, big neck muscles or not, I would run away, which is the first and most important tactic that we are taught as civilians. How fast can you run backwards? We only stand our ground if there is no place to run to or are defending someone, and then it isn't a fight anyway, because fights are supposed to last longer than one second.

 

Also since I am also in med school breaking ones neck from twisting it is very very hard.

 

Well that's why you twist both ways, the first way they will resist it, but then going the other way they are helping you get it done. When done with a fajin or one inch motion punch type it shouldn't be so hard.

 

Also, most of the one inch punches you see demonstrated out there are a joke compared to an explosive one incher, which I've not seen shown on Utube. I guess it's a secret =)

Edited January 21, 2014 by Starjumper

[gendao]

Well, there's martial arts that are sports, and then there's self defense.

 

What blew my mind was when I watched a MMA match and saw the lumbering lumoxes just stand there and let themselves be tackled. What my response would probably be to a tackle in a dangerous situation is to explode the attacker's kidneys with hammer punches as I yield. It seems that should be easy.

It's actually easy to avoid takedowns, or even punches, for that matter. You just shuffle back or to the side.

 

Cagefighters are actively trying to engage and win, though. So, they can't "run" from their opponent in the ring and many don't mind getting taken down as a transition to grappling range, either.

[i am]

Have you read "Meditations on Violence"? Definitely a good eye opener for martial artists.

 

I agree...run away! Ala Monty Python.

Edited January 21, 2014 by i am

[Nungali]

Agreed ... hence the 'solution' offered in post # 6

[dawei]

Avoiding a takedown is like trying to save a lost position in chess against a grandmaster... if the takedown artist knows what they are doing.

 

A true takedown artist is very difficult to avoid. That simple leg step back is not going to do the trick... a true takedown artist wants the step back to occur so the front leg is actually the intended target.

 

Otherwise, some of these videos are very good.

[joeblast]

was going to say the same wrt/ the takedowns displayed...I used to wrestle and nobody ever fools you with something halfassed, but get someone that knows how to misdirect well and is especially fast and you can be off your feet pretty quickly.

[Friend]

Uhm I did Wing Tsun in the past, later they add this Selfdefense Stuff in,

see above the stance is above with palms facing forward while traditional

having a Pak Sau and Wu Sau

 

Next thing is if one goes into the Selfdefense pose it serves as Fence

which is covered defense posture or as attack posture which as gesture

function as to say keep distance, calm down which is giving one favour in

the eyes of withnesses.

 

Also takedowns never occur on such distance as those who use it know the dangers.

So using provocation and sneaking near than kicking distance and then attack.

Also it happens in seconds so one may miss the the momentum.

But well.... takedowns are very vulnerable against rabbit punches

and forward sideway step with turn against the back of the head is kind of deadly if

the perfomer can precisley hit C1. There is no need of so many chain punches.

Each punch should be deadly. (But well Ng Mui had Iron Palm.... )

[chenplayer]

 

Video of my teacher Marcelo against push hands champ from Taiwan.

 

[chenplayer]

Here is some background of the video being discussed

 

http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18795

[Nungali]

A side question ... with these vids - why is there a text about karate and Funakoshi ? Nothing nthere looked like the 'karate' Funakoshi introduced to Japan. ... as far as I know ???

[chenplayer]

the text is wrong, if you go to the other link it will explain everything. The guy is push hands champ from the Cheng man ching lineage.

[Nungali]

In comp .... - impressed ... yep, text wrong ... nothing like Funokoshi !

[Starjumper]

A little change of subject here, concerning the one inch punch. This video is actually a one inch push:

 

 

I've seen it a couple other times on Utube, and it's more or less the same thing, completely missing the shocking explosive fajin energy. I'll look through the tube a bit to see if I can see a faster one.

 

Once Grand master Tchoung Ta Tchen told us that if you use fajin on somebody then that person wouldn't be your friend any more LOL, and the way I look at the one inch punch, it should also be an explosive fajin. I've seen it depicted in at least one Chinese MA movie.

 

------------

 

edit: Um, in other words, what that means is you would never demonstrate this kind of one inch punch against a person, only an object.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Starjumper

[gendao]

Bruce Lee's short-range punch (

):

Probably more biomechanical with a windup than truly "internal," but still packed quite a punch!

Edited January 23, 2014 by vortex

[Bearded Dragon]

Jim Fung apparently had a good 1 inch punch. In this vid it's still a push though. In a real situation the force would not go through the person. If your intent is inside the person the force will go there and they won't go flying back but rather drop straight to the ground in agony.

 

The others linked leave a lot to be desired. Even the Bruce Lee one.

 

[Starjumper]

 

There's another aspect. The intent of have it be short range energy vs. long range (push) makes it so that it's not just a faster version of the push, it's actually a different kind of movement. I remember now, the Movie I saw the one inch fajin in is named The Honor of Dong Fang Shu. It's a very well done movie about a Bagua master who fights a Western boxer in China. The fajin is demonstrated by the old master.

 

Anywone here seen that movie?

Edited January 23, 2014 by Starjumper

[Harmonious Emptiness]

-

Edited January 24, 2014 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Starjumper]

Video of my teacher Marcelo against push hands champ from Taiwan.

 

 

 

Here is some background of the video being discussed

 

http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18795

 

Well, that just goes to show you, that if you snuggle with the world's top BJJ guy for long enough, no matter how good you are, that you might get tackled after awhile.

 

The tai chi guy is giving up like 90% or more of what tai chi is, in those videos in order to play that game, I'm sure you're aware of that since you screen name is Chenplayer. I want to add here that I admire that you are a ring fighter, and that you've gone to the top guy for training. That's what the serious students do.

 

i dreaded to see what the experts in that linked MA thread have said: "Yeah! BJJ beats tai chi, haha! so I didn't read it.

 

If you think my following comments are worth anything you can share them on that forum if you wish. ... but first I'm going to take a break to feed the dogs.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Starjumper