Interdependent Totality in Buddhadharma

[RongzomFan]

He isn't, you're just reading his post out of context. At any rate, the latter section that you addressed wasn't even the focal point of the post in the context I was using it, but that is okay.

 

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=14929&p=204909&hilit=interdependent#p204909

 

D.O. is paradoxical

[RongzomFan]

That dependent origination is non-arising [emptiness], is Madhyamaka 101. Take it from the horses mouth itself:

 

Yes that's what I've been saying. I have many more quotes on this:

 

Nagarjuna in ''Mūlamadhyamakakārikā'' 21.12. states:

"An existent does not arise from an existent;

neither does an existent arise from a non-existent.

A non-existent does not arise from a non-existent;

neither does a non-existent arise from an existent."

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=38WJRwP3nLgC&pg=PA297&dq=Mulamadhyamakakarika+of+Nagarjuna+An+existent+does+not+arise+from+an+existent;+neither+does+an+existent+arise+from+a+non-existent.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fnGiUtuWMPPMsQSzkIDwCA&ved=0CDgQuwUwAQ#v=onepage&q=Mulamadhyamakakarika%20of%20Nagarjuna%20An%20existent%20does%20not%20arise%20from%20an%20existent%3B%20neither%20does%20an%20existent%20arise%20from%20a%20non-existent.&f=false

 

 

Here are some quotations from 2 top books, Nagarjuna's Reason Sixty and Center of the Sunlit Sky:

 

"Nagarjuna taught , "bereft of beginning, middle, and end," meaning that the world is free from creation, duration, and destruction."

-Candrakirti

 

"Once one asserts things, one will succumb to the view of seeing such by imagining their beginning, middle and end; hence that grasping at things is the cause of all views."

-Candrakirti

 

"the perfectly enlightened buddhas-proclaimed, "What is dependently created is uncreated."

-Candrakirti

 

"Likewise, here as well, the Lord Buddha’s pronouncement that "What is dependently created is objectively uncreated," is to counteract insistence on the objectivity of things."

-Candrakirti

 

"Since relativity is not objectively created, those who, through this reasoning, accept dependent things as resembling the moon in water and reflections in a mirror, understand them as neither objectively true nor false. Therefore, those who think thus regarding dependent things realize that what is dependently arisen cannot be substantially existent, since what is like a reflection is not real. If it were real, that would entail the absurdity that its transformation would be impossible. Yet neither is it unreal, since it manifests as real within the world."

-Candrakirti

 

Nagarjuna said "If I had any position, I thereby would be at fault. Since

I have no position, I am not at fault at all."

 

Aryadeva said "Against someone who has no thesis of “existence,

nonexistence, or [both] existence and nonexistence,” it is not possible to

level a charge, even if [this is tried] for a long time."

 

"I do not say that entities do not exist, because I say that they originate in dependence. “So are you a realist then?” I am not, because I am just a proponent of dependent origination. “What sort of nature is it then that you [propound]?” I propound dependent origination. “What is the meaning of dependent origination?” It has the meaning of the lack of a nature and the meaning of nonarising through a nature [of its own]. It has the meaning of the origination of results with a nature similar to that of illusions, mirages, reflections, cities of scent-eaters, magical creations, and dreams. It has the meaning of emptiness and identitylessness."

-Candrakirti

 

Nagarjuna in Mūlamadhyamakakārikā 1.1. states:

"Not from themselves, not from something other,

Not from both, and not without a cause-

At any place and any time,

All entities lack arising."

 

Buddhapālita comments (using consequentalist arguments which ultimately snowballs into Tibetan prasangika vs. svatantrika):

"Entities do not arise from their own intrinsic nature, because their arising would be pointless and because they would arise endlessly. For entities that [already] exist as their own intrinsic nature, there is no need to arise again. If they were to arise despite existing [already], there would be no time when they do not arise; [but] that is also not asserted [by the Enumerators].

 

Candrakīrti, in ''Madhyamakāvatāra'' VI.14., comments:

"If something were to originate in dependence on something other than it,

Well, then utter darkness could spring from flames

And everything could arise from everything,

Because everything that does not produce [a specific result] is the same in being other [than it]."

 

Candrakīrti, in the ''Prasannapadā'', comments:

"Entities also do not arise from something other, because there is nothing other."

 

Nagarjuna in ''Mūlamadhyamakakārikā'' 1.3cd. states:

"If an entity in itself does not exist,

An entity other [than it] does not exist either."

 

Candrakīrti, in the ''Prasannapadā'', comments:

"Nor do entities arise from both [themselves and others], because this would entail [all] the flaws that were stated for both of these theses and because none of these [disproved possibilities] have the capacity to produce [entities]."

 

Nagarjuna, in ''Mūlamadhyamakakārikā'' VII.17., states:

"If some nonarisen entity

Existed somewhere,

It might arise.

However, since such does not exist, what would arise?"

 

Nagarjuna, in ''Mūlamadhyamakakārikā'' VII.19cd., states:

"If something that lacks arising could arise,

Just about anything could arise in this way."

Edited January 28, 2014 by RongzomFan

[RongzomFan]

He isn't, you're just reading his post out of context.

 

He says D.O. is not paradoxical in one post.

 

But in many posts he says that conditioned is unconditioned, dependently arisen don't arise etc. etc. etc.

[RongzomFan]

"'Who understands this?' one might wonder;

It's those who see dependent origination.

The supreme knower of reality has taught

That dependent arising is unborn."

- Yuktiṣāṣṭikakārikā

 

I wasn't aware of this translation:

 

http://www.tibetanclassics.org/html-assets/SixtyStanzas.pdf

 

 

I only knew about this one:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Nagarjunas-Yuktisastika-Candrakirtis-Commentary-Yuktisastikavrrti/dp/0975373420

Edited January 28, 2014 by RongzomFan

[RongzomFan]

Malcolm wrote:

There is no "inter" in pratītyasamutpada

 

A more literal translation is "conditioned co-origination", where pratitya bears the sense of pratyaya, i.e. conditioned.

 

The tibetan "rten cing 'brel bar 'byung ba" means something like " dependent and relational origination".

 

There is however nothing "paradoxical" about dependent origination.

 

The context of this quote was how to literally translate pratītyasamutpada, where someone suggested to translate it as paradox.

 

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=14929&start=420#p204909

 

Of course pratītyasamutpada doesn't translate to paradox.

Edited January 28, 2014 by RongzomFan

[RongzomFan]

Anyway we all agree dependent origination is nonarising.

Edited January 28, 2014 by RongzomFan

[asunthatneversets]

I don't think it can be said that dependent origination is truly paradoxical, it just appears that way when viewed at face value.

 

'The conditioned is the unconditioned' simply means the unconditioned is the non-arising of the conditioned.

 

The 'conditioned' is product of an invalid cognition. The 'unconditioned' is a valid cognition of the so-called 'conditioned'.

 

When a white conch shell appears yellow to a jaundiced eye; stating that the yellow is truly white may appear paradoxical, but the actual state of affairs isn't a paradox.

[RongzomFan]

Just ask him whether its paradoxical.

 

You are on DW.

[Anderson]

Malcolm went back on his answers many times over the years.

This however it doesn't mean that he was wrong in the past and he is right in the present.

It could mean many things.

[RongzomFan]

Malcolm went back on his answers many times over the years.

This however it doesn't mean that he was wrong in the past and he is right in the present.

It could mean many things.

 

He is pretty consistent on emptiness.

 

I believe when he said D.O. is not paradoxical, he was only referring to literal translation of pratītyasamutpada.

[Simple_Jack]

Source: http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=15347&view=unread#unread

 

 

Fa-tsang's Treatise on the Golden Lion is, evidently, one of my favourites. I read it first in Buddhism: Introducing the Buddhist Experience, by Donald W. Mitchell, pp 216-218. It discusses the idea of the co-arising of the world using the gold of a statue as a simile for emptiness (li) and the lion taken as a whole form to represent phenomena (shih).

The gold has no self-nature. The arising of the lion is due only to dependence, so it is called dependent arising. The lion is empty [not self-sustaining]; there is only the gold. Also, emptiness, having no self-nature, manifests itself through form. This means that since the gold takes in the totality of the lion, apart from the gold there is no lion to be found. This means that when we see the lion coming into existence, we are seeing only the gold coming in to existence as form. There is nothing apart from the gold.

Then Fa-tsang presents the "Ten Mysterious Gates" to explain this:
(1) Emptiness comes into being simultaneously with phenomena.
(2) This simultaneity doesn't obstruct the existence of unique identities.
(3) Distinct forms interpenetrate and thus contain each other.
(4) Despite this, they remain unique.
(5) When one looks at phenomena, emptiness is hidden, and when one looks at emptiness, phenomena are hidden.
(6) Despite this, they are completely compatible.
(7) Each phenomena reflects an image of every other phenomena, infinitely.
(8) Speaking phenomenally is for revealing ignorance, speaking of emptiness is for revealing truth, they're two sides of the same coin.
(9) All phenomena arise in moments dependent on all other moments.
(10) Both phenomena and emptiness depend on mental transformations.

(1) The gold and the lion arise simultaneously, perfectly complete. (2) The gold and the lion arise compatible with each other, the one and the many not obstructing each other. In this situation, emptiness [li] and forms [shih] are distinct. Whether one considers the one [emptiness] of the many [forms], each entity maintains its own position.

(3) If the eye of the lion takes in the whole of the lion, then the whole lion is purely the eye. (4) Since the various organs, and even each hair of the lion, takes in completely the whole lion in so far as they are all gold, then each element of the lion penetrates the whole of the lion. The eye of the lion is its ear, its ear is its nose, its nose is its tongue, and its tongue is its body. Yet, they all exist freely and easily, not hindering or obstructing each other.

(5) If one contemplates the lion, there is only the lion, and the gold is not seen. The gold is hidden and the lion is manifest. If one contemplates the gold, there is only the gold, and the lion is not seen. The lion is hidden and the gold is manifest. (6) The gold and the lion may be hidden or manifest. The principle [emptiness] and the jointly arisen [phenomena] mutually shine. Principle and phenomena appear together as completely compatible.

(7) In each eye, ear, limb, joint and hair of the lion is reflected a golden lion. All these golden lions in all the hairs simultaneously enter in to a single hair. Thus in each hair, there are an infinite number of lions. In addition, all single hairs, together with the infinite number of lions, enter in to a single hair. In a similar way, there is an endless progression of realms interpenetrating realms just like the jewels of Indra's net.

(8) The lion is spoken of in order to demonstrate the result of ignorance, while its golden essence is spoken of in order to make clear its true nature. (9) This lion is a created dharma, arising and passing away in every moment. Yet, since the different periods of time are formed dependent on one another, they are merging harmoniously and mutually penetrating together without obstruction in each moment of time. (10) The gold and the lion may be hidden or manifest, but neither has any own-being. They are constantly being evolved through the transformations of the mind.

Wisdom means that when we see the lion, we realize right away that all dharmas are produced by causes, and are from the very beginning quiescent and empty. By being free from attachments to the world and from renunciation of the world, one flows along this way into the sea of perfect knowledge, and the afflictions that result from desires will no longer be produced. Whether one sees beauty or ugliness, the mind is calm like the sea. Wrong views cease, and there are no negative mental formations. One escapes bondage, is free from hindrances, and forever cuts the roots of duhkha. This is called the entry into Nirvana.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Simple_Jack]

​Source: http://www.drbachinese.org/vbs/101_132/vbs125/125_9.htm

 

 

Flower Adornment Essay On
The Gold Lion

by Shramana Fa Tsang
Translated into English by
Bhikshu Heng Shun
reviewed by Bhikshuni Heng Hsien

 

ONE, UNDERSTANDING CONDITIONED ARISING

TWO, DISTINGUISHING FORM AND EMPTINESS

THREE, SUMMARIZING THE THREE NATURES

FOUR, REVEALING THE MARKLESS

FIVE, EXPLAINING THE UNPRODUCED

SIX, DISCUSSING THE FIVE TEACHINGS

SEVEN, MASTERING THE TEN MYSTERIES

EIGHT, EMBRACING THE SIX MARKS

NINE, ACHIEVING BODHI

TEN, ENTERING NIRVANA

ONE, UNDERSTANDING CONDITIONED ARISING

That is to say, the gold is without a nature of its own. In accordance with the condition of the skillful work of the crafts-man, there arise the marks of the lion. Their arising is only due to this condition. Therefore, this is called conditioned arising.

TWO, DISTINGUISHING FORM AND EMPTINESS

That is to say, the marks of the lion are unreal. There is only true gold. The lion does not exist. The gold substance is not non-existent. Therefore they are called form and emptiness.

"Moreover, emptiness does not have a mark of its own. Through form it is revealed. It does not obstruct illusory existence. Therefore they are called form and emptiness." Also, in Number Seven, Mastering the Ten Mysteries, the Ninth Door should be the Door of the Different Accomplishments of the TenPeriods of Time.

THREE, SUMMARIZING THE THREE NATURES

The lion that exists for the emotions is called imaginary. The apparent existence of the lion is called dependent. The nature of the gold does not change; therefore it is called perfected.

FOUR, REVEALING THE MARKLESS

That is to say, the gold takes in the lion completely. Outside of the gold there is no mark of the lion which can be obtained. Therefore it is called markless.

FIVE, EXPLAINING THE UNPRODUCED

That is to say, at the very time one sees the lion produced, it is only the gold that is produced. Outside of the gold there is not a single other thing. Although the lion has production and destruction, its gold substance fundamentally is without increase or decrease. Therefore it is called unproduced.

SIX, DISCUSSING THE FIVE TEACHINGS

First, although the lion is causally conditioned dharma, it is produced and destroyed in every thought. In reality no mark of the lion can be obtained. This is called the Teaching of the Sound-Hearers Who Are Ignorant About Dharmas.

Second, these very conditionally produced dharmas are each without a nature of their own. At their basis, they are only emptiness. This is called the Beginning Teaching of the Great Vehicle.

Third, although at their basis they are only emptiness, that still does not obstruct their illusory existence. Conditionally produced, they have a false existence. Therefore both of these two marks remain. This is called the Final Teaching of the Great Vehicle.

Fourth, these very two marks cancel out each other, so both perish. Emotion's falseness does not remain. Both have no strength; therefore both emptiness and existence come to an end. This is known as the path of words being cut off, and the mind having no place to abide in. This is called the Sudden Teaching of the Great Vehicle.

Fifth, these very dharmas of emotion's exhaustion and the disclosing of the substance combine to become one mass. Then there is abundant flourishing of great functions. Their arising is absolutely and totally true. The ten thousand appearances in profusion mingle yet are not disordered. All are just one, for all alike are without a nature. One is just all, for causes and results follow in succession. Their strengths and functions intermingle, rolling up and spreading out with freedom and ease. This is called the Perfect Teaching of the One Vehicle.

SEVEN, MASTERING THE TEN MYSTERIES

One. The gold and the lion simultaneously come into being, and are perfectly complete. This is called the Door of Simultaneous Completion and Mutual Interaction.

Two. If the eyes of the lion take in the lion completely, then all of it is singularly the eyes. If the ears take in the lion completely, then all of it is singularly the ears. All of the organs simultaneously take in each other, being fully complete. Therefore each and every one is mixed, yet each and every one is singular, making up a complete treasury. This is called the Door of the Singular Yet Composite Completeness in Virtue of All Treasuries.

Three. The gold and the lion contain one another to be established. The one and the many do not obstruct one another. Within them, noumena and phenomena are each different. Whether one or many, each abides in its own position. This is called the Door of the One and Many Containing One Another Yet Being Different.

Four. Every organ of the lion and each of its hair tips, by means of the gold, takes in the lion completely. Each and every one is all pervasive. With respect to the eyes of the lion, the eyes are the ears, the ears are the nose, the nose is the tongue, and the tongue is the body. With freedom and ease they are established, and are unobstructed and unimpeded. This is called the Door of the Mutual Identity of All Dharmas In Freedom and Ease.

Five. If one looks at the lion, then there is only the lion and not the gold. The lion is revealed, and the gold is hidden. If one looks at the gold, then there is only the gold and not the lion. The gold is revealed, and the lion is hidden. If one looks at both aspects, then they are both hidden and both revealed. If hidden, they are concealed. If revealed, they are apparent. This is called the Door of the Hidden and the Revealed Being Established Together.

Six. For the gold and the lion--whether hidden or revealed, whether one or many, set as singular or set as mixed, with strength or without strength--this is just that, and host and attendants interilluminate. Noumena and phenomena manifest together and totally contain one another. There is no obstruction of establishment or accomplishment of the subtle and minute. This is called the Door of the Establishment and Intercontainment of the Subtle and Minute.

Seven. The lion's eyes, ears, and the other members, and each of its hairs has a golden lion. The lions in each hair simultaneously and instaneously enter into a single hair. Within each hair there are limitless lions. Moreover, each and every hair of those limitless lions also returns and enters into a single hair. In this way there is layer upon layer without end, like the pearls in the net of the Heavenly Lord. This is called the Door of the State of Indra's Net.

Eight. One speaks of the lion in order to represent ignorance. One speaks of its gold substance to reflect the true nature. Discussing noumena and phenomena together further causes the alaya consciousness to be properly understood. This is called the Door of Relying on Phenomena to Reveal Dharmas and Produce Understanding.

Nine. The lion is conditioned dharma. In thought after thought it is produced and destroyed. Within a kshana it divides up into three boundaries. That is to say, all of the three boundaries--those of the past, the present and the future--each has a past, a present, and a future, making up the nine periods of time. Those all tie together to form a single-piece dharma door. Although there are nine periods of time, each separate, they are established because of each other. They interpenetrate without obstruction, and identically constitute a single thought. This is called the Door of the Different Accomplishment of Separate Dharmas of the Three Periods of Time.

Ten. The gold and the lion, whether hidden or revealed, whether one or many, are each without a nature of their own. They are caused by the turnings of the mind. When one speaks of phenomena or speaks of noumena, there is coming into being and establishment. This is called the Door of Skillful Accomplishment Through the Turnings of Mind Only.

NUMBER EIGHT. EMBRACING THE SIX MARKS

The lion is the mark of generality. The differences of the five organs is the mark of particularity. That all of them arise from a single condition is the mark of sameness. The eyes, ears, and so forth not overlapping is the mark of difference. That all organs assemble for the lion to exist is the mark of coming into being. That each organ abides in its own position is the mark of destruction.

NUMBER NINE, ACHIEVING BODHI

Bodhi means the Path and Awakening. That is to say, at the time one sees the lion, that is just seeing how all conditioned dharmas, even before they are destroyed, are
fundamentally still and extinct. Being apart from grasping and rejecting is just the road which flows to and enters the sea of Sarvajna (All-Wisdom). Therefore, it is called the Path. To understand that, from beginningless time up to now, all upside-downness, from the first is without actuality, is called Awakening. Ultimate endowment with the Wisdom of All Modes is called achieving Bodhi.

NUMBER TEN, ENTERING NIRVANA

One looks at the lion and the gold, yet the marks of both are exhausted, and afflictions are not produced. Beauty and ugliness appear before one, yet one's mind is as calm as the ocean. False thoughts are all exhausted. One has no compulsions, escapes from bondage, is free from obstruction, and eternally renounces the wellsprings of suffering. That is called entering Nirvana.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Simple_Jack]

Entry Into The Inconceivable: An Introduction to Hua-Yen Buddhism by Thomas Cleary: http://www.khamkoo.com/uploads/9/0/0/4/9004485/entry_into_the_inconceivable_-_an_introduction_to_hua-yen_buddhism.pdf -- Cessation & Contemplation in the Five Teachings of the Hua-yen by Tu Shun [excerpt of chapter from his "Entry Into The Inconceivable"] - http://thanhsiang.org/faqing/files/06Cleary43-68.pdf.

 

On The Meditation of Dharmadhatu by Master Tu Shun [excerpt from Garma C.C. Chang's "The Buddhist Teaching of Totality"] - http://www.fodian.net/world/1884.html; Commentary to the Hua-Yan Dharma-Realm Meditation by Sallie Behn King, University of British Columbia - https://circle.ubc.ca/handle/2429/19489.

 

The P'an-Chiao System Of The Hua-Yen School In Chinese Buddhism by Liu Ming-Wood, University of Hong Kong - http://enlight.lib.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-MISC/misc22719.pdf; http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/4528228?uid=3739936&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21103322079491.

 

Fazang (643-712): The Holy Man by Jinhua Chen, University of British Columbia [hagiography] - http://archiv.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/ojs/index.php/jiabs/article/viewFile/8957/2850.

[Simple_Jack]

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=15494&view=unread#unread

 

Begin forwarded message:

> From: kalavinka <[email protected]>
> Date: February 2, 2014 at 6:53:12 PM PST
> To: Heng Shou <[email protected]>
> Subject: Announcement: The First Ever Complete & Genuine Translation of the Avatamsaka Sutra
>
> New Year’s Kalavinka Press Announcement
>
>
>
> Three First-Ever[1] Translations by Bhikshu Dharmamitra
>
> Completed on Lunar New Year’s Day, 2014:
>
>
>
> The Greatly Expansive Buddha’s Floral Adornment Sutra
>
> Mahāvaipulya Buddha Avataṃsaka Sūtra (Śikṣānanda’s 699 ce. edition).
>
> T279 - 大方廣佛華嚴經 - 實叉難陀譯
>
> (39 chapters in 80 fascicles – 3000 pages)
>
>
>
> The Ten Grounds Sutra
>
> Daśabhūmika Sūtra (Kumārajīva’s circa 400 ce edition.)
>
> T286 -十住經 - 鳩摩羅什譯
>
> (Ten Chapters in 4 fascicles – 275 pages)
>
>
>
> Nagarjuna’s Commentarial Treatise on the Ten Grounds Sutra
>
> Daśabhūmika Vibhāṣā Śāstra
>
> T1521 - 十住毘婆沙論 -鳩摩羅什譯
>
> (35 chapters in 17 fascicles – 700 pages.)
>
>
>
> The Avatamsaka Sutra translation was finished
>
> At 12:01 am, January 31st, Lunar New Year’s Day, 2014,
>
> At West Seattle’s Kalavinka Translation Aranya,
>
> by Bhikshu Dharmamitra*, a.k.a. Bhikshu Heng Shou (釋恆授).
>
>
>
> Kalavinka Press is planning to publish all 3 of these texts in the Fall, 2014.
>
> (BDK-Numata will also issue an edition of Dharmamitra’s translation of the Avataṃsaka Sutra.)
>
>
>
> Although this three-text project was begun in 2004 at Turtle Mountain’s Prajna Translation Aranya, it was interrupted by publication of ten other books, a liver cancer operation, a liver transplant, etc., only to be begun again, 6 months post-transplant, in late 2010.
>
>
>
> Bhikshu Dharmamitra* is one of very first American disciples of the late Ven. Master Hsuan Hua (since 1968).
>
> He was also one of the group of three American monks who were the very first Americans to ever take full bhikshu ordination in the Chinese Buddhist tradition (Hai Hui Monastery, Chilung, Taiwan, Nov., 1969). He is the author of approximately 25 translations of Chinese Buddhist Canonical Texts, most of which originated from Sanskrit.
>
> [1] Although Thomas Cleary claims to have translated the Avatamsaka Sutra, he did not in fact do so.(For immense parts of the text, Cleary cuts out the Avataṃsaka text, grafts in other texts, and otherwise violates in a host of ways the sanctity of the Śikṣānanda translation from Sanskrit.)
>
> --
> Bhikshu Dharmamitra
> (a.k.a. Rev. Heng Shou - 釋恆授, Michael Kane)
> Translator & Publisher of Classic Indian & Chinese Buddhist Texts
> Kalavinka Press (Kalavinkapress.org)
> 8603 39th Ave SW, Seattle, WA 98136
> [email protected]; Office: 206-932-1155 / Cell:

 

*The same person who translated Shramana Zhyi's meditation manuals: http://thetaobums.com/topic/33467-tiantai-shamatha-vipashyana/

[Simple_Jack]

Ch'eng-kuan on the Hua-yen Trinity by Robert M. Gimello, University of Arizona - http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-BJ001/bj60469.htm

[Simple_Jack]

Translation of Huayan Patriarch Cheng'guan's work by Ven. Indrajala:

 

https://sites.google.com/site/dharmadepository/translations/examination-of-the-five-aggregates:

 

五蘊觀
Examination of the Five Aggregates

沙門澄觀述
Written by Śramaṇa Chéngguān

問。凡夫之人欲求解脫。當云何修。
Question: The common person seeks liberation. How should he practice?

答曰。當修二觀。
Answer: One should practice the two examinations.

二觀者何。一人空觀。二法空觀。
What are the two examinations? The first is the examination of the emptiness of persons. The second is the examination of the emptiness of phenomena [dharmas].

夫生死之本莫過人法二執。
The root of saṃsāra – nothing goes beyond the two attachments to persons and phenomena.

迷身心總相。故執人我為實有。
One misunderstands the body and mind's collective characteristic and thus grasps the self of the person as an actual existent.

迷五蘊自相。故計法我為實有。
One misunderstands the five aggregates' individual characteristics and thus conceives the self of a phenomenon as an actual existent.

計人我者。用初觀照之。
For the conception of the self of person we utilize the first examination and investigate it.

知五蘊和合假名為人。
We then know the five aggregates come together and are provisionally called a person.

一一諦觀。但見五蘊。求人我相終不可得。
Each are carefully examined. We only see the five aggregates. We search for the self-characteristic of the person and in the end it cannot be obtained.

云何名為五蘊。色受想行識是。
What are called the five aggregates? They are form (rūpa), sensation (vedanā), perception (saṃjñā), volitional formations (saṃskāra) and consciousness (vijñāna).

云何觀之。
How does one examine them?

身則色蘊。所謂地水火風是。其相如何。
The body is the aggregate of form, which includes earth, water, fire and wind. What are their characteristics?

堅則地。潤則水。煖則火。動則風。
Solidity is earth. Moistness is water. Warmth is fire. Movement is wind.

觀心則四蘊。所謂受想行識是。其相如何。
In examining the mind there are four aggregates, which include sensation, perception, volitional formations and consciousness. What are their characteristics?

領納為受。取相為相。造作為行。了別為識。
Feeling is sensation. Apprehending characteristics is perception. Creating actions is volitional formations. Cognition is consciousness.

若能依此身心相。諦觀分明。於一切處但見五蘊。求人我相終不可得。
If we rely on these characteristics of body and mind, carefully examining and discerning them, then in all places we only see the five aggregates. We search out the self-characteristic of the person and in the end it cannot be obtained.

名人空觀。乘此觀。行出分段生死。永處涅槃。名二乘解脫。
We call this the examination of the emptiness of persons. If one utilizes this examination, one departs saṃsāra within the six realms and forever abides in nirvāṇa. We call this the liberation of the two vehicles.

計法我者用後觀照之。知一一蘊皆從緣生。都無自性。求蘊相不可得。則五蘊皆空。
For the conception of the self of a phenomenon we utilize the latter examination and investigate it. We then know that each of the aggregates all emerge from conditions and all are without self-nature [svabhava]. We search for the characteristics of the aggregates and they cannot be obtained, and so the five aggregates are all empty.

名法空觀。若二觀雙照。了人我法我。畢竟空無所有。
We call this the examination of the emptiness of phenomena. If we investigate with both examinations we understand the person's self and the phenomenon's self are ultimately empty without existence.

離諸怖畏。度一切苦厄。出變易生死。名究竟解脫。
Free from all fears, crossing over all pains and emerging into existence as a Bodhisattva – we call this ultimate liberation.

問。夫求解脫。祗是了妄證真。但能契真如理。寂然無念則便離縛。何假興心觀蘊方求解脫。豈不乖理哉。
Question: Seeking liberation is only just understanding delusion and realizing the truth. It is merely being able to realize the principle of tathātā – in quietude without thoughts, one is then free of bondage. How does one provisionally arouse the mind, examine the aggregates and then seek liberation? Is this not in opposition to the principle?

答。離蘊真妄約何而立。且五蘊者身心之異名。行人若不識身心真妄。何能懸契。
Answer: What is there to be established without aggregates, truth and delusion? Moreover, the five aggregates are a different name for the body and mind. Supposing the practitioner is not aware of the truth and delusions of body and mind, how could they completely understand them?

不達真妄之本。諸行徒施。
They do not reach the root of truth and delusion, and practices are vainly undertaken.

故經云。若於虗空終不能成。斯之謂也。
Thus the scripture states, “It is like in emptiness ultimately nothing being able to be established.”

且計人我者。凡夫之執也。計法我者。二乘之滯也。
Moreover, the conception of the self of the person is a delusional attachment of the ordinary person. The conception of the self of a phenomenon is a hindrance of the two vehicles.

故令修二觀。方能了妄證真。豈可離也。
Thus we have them practice the two examinations and they are then able to understand delusion and realize the truth. How could you do without this?

[Simple_Jack]

http://www.dharmaradio.org/dharmatalks/index.htm - Talks by Ven. Heng Sure on the "Ten Grounds Chapter" from the Avatamsaka Sutra.

[Simple_Jack]

Translations by Ven. Indrajala

 

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2566

 

The characteristic of totality is one of six characteristics (in Chinese known as liu xiang 六相). They are as follows:

①総相 - Totality
②別相- Partiality
③同相- Similarity
④異相- Difference
⑤成相 - Integration
⑥壊相 - Disintegration

There are a lot of specific terms and ideas that Huayan thinkers crafted and applied to their practice. The big one is the relationship between principle li/理 and phenomenon shi/事. The former being the truth or ultimate and the later being the conventional reality of "things". True and false are always dependent on each other and one can never speak of one without the other.

To put it into modern day terms, the Huayan thinkers stressed that everything is exists in a relative sense. Unlike the methods of Nagarjuna which stressed that things are ultimately unarisen, the Huayan line of reasoning didn't generally take the analysis that far. They were content with seeing the relative mode of existence of things, which is to say things being infinitely interconnected and relative to one another on an inconceivable scale, as sufficient for their purposes.

Quoting Zongmi:

《註華嚴法界觀門》卷1：「除事法界也。事不獨立故。法界宗中無孤單法故。若獨觀之。即事情計之境。非觀智之境故。」(CBETA, T45, no. 1884, p. 684, c4-6)

"Except for the dharmadhatu of phenomena, phenomena are not independently established and so within the dharma-dhatu school [aka Huayan]" there are no isolated or singular dharmas. If one observes something on its own then this phenomenon would be an object of conventional perception because it is not an object seen with wisdom."

One might accuse them of misunderstanding Indian Madhyamaka, but I feel that would be inappropriate because they were aware of it and had a specific classification for that view.

Quoting Fazang:

《華嚴一乘教義分齊章》卷4：「答八不據遮六義約表。又八不約反情理自顯。六義據顯理情自亡。」(CBETA, T45, no. 1866, p. 502, c4-6)

"Answered: 'The eight negations are based on negation methods [literally obstructing/concealment] and the six meanings are based on methods of revealing. Again, the eight negations reject the conventional and the principle reveals itself. The six meanings rely on revealing the principle and having the conventional itself disappear."

'Six meanings' is synonymous with the six characteristics above.

Now, if should apply this analysis on the ground in a practical sense, we might consider Fazang's analysis.
The object that Fazang took into consideration was a building. In simple terms:

Totality is the whole building itself.

Partiality are the various individual conditions (rafters, beams, walls, etc...).

Similarity is the aspect where everything is identical on account of being dependently originated ergo empty. Everything is identical in the sense that everything is empty.

Difference is the differences one observes from the standpoint of the individual conditions.

Integration is the aspect where the individual conditions create the result.

Disintegration is the aspect where each condition maintains its own individual characteristic.

Totality and partiality are the essence 體.
Similarity and difference are the characteristics 相.
Integration and disintegration are the function 用.

Finally, all these meanings or characteristics include the others. This is where we go from the concrete to the entirely abstract. Essentially these aspects are all relative to one another and each lack any sort of intrinsic identity within themselves.

I think this is not at all unlike Nagarjuna declaring that even emptiness is empty. These six meanings as well in the end vanish under the force of their own analysis.

Unlike the Madhyamaka method which uses thorough negation to reveal the lack of intrinsic existence within an object, thus concluding that said object does not ultimately exist and is unarisen, the Huayan method uses a kind of affirmative method to show that an object exists entirely dependently thereby by necessity not having any kind of intrinsic existence at all.

From the Huayan perspective the saying in the Heart Sutra, "Form is emptiness, emptiness is form," would mean that form can only exist because it is empty -- in other words, because its mode of existence is dependent origination -- and emptiness can only be because there is something that could be empty.

In short, for the Huayan thinker everything without exception is relational. When you apply that analysis to your own individual being, which seems to intrinsically exist as Nagarjuna might put it, you discover that you're neither really existent nor non-existent, but infinitely interconnected with the rest of the universe. You're but a jewel in Indra's net being reflected by all the other infinite jewels and you yourself are reflecting all those other infinite jewels. Your sense of "me" and "mine" vanishes as your sense of "self" expands to include all of totality and suddenly all those other infinite sentient beings are a part of your identity. At that point you're like mother and child. They're all drowning in the sea of samsara. You don't think twice about diving in and rescuing them. Your Bodhisattva vows go into high gear.

Hence emptiness and compassion are non-dual.

觀色即空成大智而不住生死觀空即色成大悲而不住涅槃。以色空無二悲智不殊。

Huayan Master Fazang once wrote, "Seeing that form is emptiness manifests great wisdom and one does not abide in samsara. Seeing that emptiness is form manifests great compassion and one does not abide in nirvana. When form and emptiness are non-dual, compassion and wisdom are not different."

 

 

 

Indrajala wrote: This is the "Flower Ornament Single Vehicle Dharma-Dhatu" diagram 華嚴一乘法界圖. It was composed in Silla (part of modern day Korea).

If I'm not mistaken, you start from the fa 法 in the middle and follow it around. In Korea some monks apparently still memorize the whole thing.

 

Kirtu wrote: So it's a kind of mnemonic device?

 

Indrajala wrote: Perhaps meditative is the right way to put it.

One goes through the whole interweaving chain of syllables and produces insight.

[Paul]

Interdependent arising, or dependent co-arising is a distinction without a difference. Perhaps one is the more accurate translation of the precise words, but it does not change the meaning. One can also say simultaneous conditionality. The meaning is all factors are at play simultaneously, like twelve sticks leaning against one another to form a cone. If you remove one stick, the others fall. This is the extent of the meaning. There is no cone, only twelve sticks.

[gatito]

In fact, there are no sticks either.

[Paul]

In fact, there are no sticks either.

With due respect, you are taking the metaphor beyond its intended target. Buddhism does not say there is no conventional reality. From the conventional standpoint, there is suffering, birth, death, etc... From the ultimate standpoint there is not. How there is not is the subject of great debate from the different sanghas. From ultimate truths to atoms to kalapas to bindus... this species of insight is very lineage specific. Engaging in such discussions by quoted from various teachers creates a pandemonium of theories where everyone is talking past one another in a game of one upsmanship, but where all statements are category errors, and hence the discussion becomes meaningless drivel. We can do better.

[gatito]

OK then.

 

Let's examine this closely without resort to dogma because, as you say, the debate by various sanghas/teachers goes nowhere.

 

What's relevant is the ability to consider these issues deeply for oneself.

 

The metaphor of the sticks is actually part of a teaching method that utilises sublation in order to nullify false beliefs and false concepts that obscure the Truth. Unfortunately, this teaching is widely adopted as dogma rather than as an intermediate step in the annihillation of ignorance of the Truth (avidya).

 

So, coming back to your point that the cone doesn't actually exist, you go on to say that the sticks do actually exist, whereas, they do not - because if they did then they would form the cone that you claim is nonexistent.

 

Therefore dependent origination actually demonstrates that nothing originates (e.g. cone or sticks)

 

One problem with sublation is that each step rests on a previous step and moving to a more advanced step without having sublated the previous teaching leaves the student reliant on a belief - as opposed to the method destroying that belief.

 

Another problem is that you can't mix up the relative and the absolute in this way. In other words, skipping back to say that there is a conventional reality in order to assert that your view about the actual existence of the sticks is a fact actually asserts the existence of the cone.

 

Hope that's clear?

[Simple_Jack]

It's much simpler than that: "When the [ultimate] truth is explained as it is, the conventional [truth] is not obstructed; independent of the conventional [truth] no [ultimate] truth can be found" ~ Nagarjuna's Bodhicittavivarana

Edited March 16, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Simple_Jack]

Excerpts from Nagarjuna's Bodhicittavivarana trans. by Geshe Thubten Jinpa:

 

http://www.tibetanclassics.org/html-assets/Awakening%20Mind%20Commentary.pdf

 

39

The cognizer perceives the cognizable;

Without the cognizable there is no cognition;

Therefore why do you not admit

That neither object nor subject exists [at all]?

...

53

To whom consciousness is momentary,

To them it cannot be permanent;

So if the mind is impermanent,

How could it be inconsistent with emptiness?

54

In brief if the Buddhas uphold

The mind to be impermanent,

How would they not uphold

That it is empty as well.

55

From the very beginning itself

The mind never had any [intrinsic] nature;

It is not being stated here that an entity

Which possesses intrinsic existence [somehow] lacks this.

...

57

Just as sweetness is the nature of molasses

And heat the nature of fire,

Likewise we maintain that

The nature of all phenomena is emptiness.

58

When one speaks of emptiness

as the nature [of phenomena],

One in no sense propounds nihilism;

By the same token one does not

Propound eternalism either.

59

Starting with ignorance and ending with aging,

All processes that arise from

The twelve links of dependent origination,

We accept them to be like a dream and an illusion.

...

63

In brief from empty phenomena

Empty phenomena arise;

Agent, karma, fruits, and their enjoyer –

The conqueror taught these to be [only] conventional.

64

Just as the sound of a drum as well as a shoot

Are produced from a collection [of factors],

We accept the external world of dependent origination

To be like a dream and an illusion.

65

That phenomena are born from causes

Can never be inconsistent [with facts];

Since the cause is empty of cause,

We understand it to be empty of origination.

66

The non-origination of all phenomena

Is clearly taught to be emptiness;

In brief the five aggregates are denoted

By [the expression] “all phenomena.”

67

When the [ultimate] truth is explained as it is

The conventional is not obstructed;

Independent of the conventional

No [ultimate] truth can be found.

68

The conventional is taught to be emptiness;

The emptiness itself is the conventional;

One does not occur without the other,

Just as [being] produced and impermanent.

69

The conventional arises from afflictions and karma;

And karma arises from the mind;

The mind is accumulated by the propensities;

When free from propensities it’s happiness.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Simple_Jack]

Translation of Chengguan's (4th Patriarch of Huayan sect) commentaries on the Avatamsaka Sutra: http://books.google.com/books?id=M8M0AwAAQBAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s