There are absolutely no absolutes...

[Marblehead]

I knew you'd say that.

Of course you knew that. You have grown to know me fairly well as to how I post here.

 

Can I not say I just have a general interest in pineapples?

Of course you can. You can say anything you wish to say. There may be ramifications though.

 

A pineapple sundae would be nice right now too.

[Marblehead]

Inter-being!

 

co-dependently originating!

interdependently arising!

mutually co-existent!

Yin/Yang!

Non-dual!

Okay. That explains everything.

 

Are you sure you want to inter-being and not inner-being?

 

I try to be non-dual but it doesn't work most of the time. Oh well.

[dee]

Simplify

Edited February 15, 2014 by dee

[Marblehead]

No, I can't just be non-dualistic. I have preferrences. This rather than that. Warm rather than cold.

 

If I could be non-dualistic I wouldn't have to try anymore, would I?

 

Yeah, I know. Don't try, do.

 

I flew (flapped my arms pretending they were wings) but it didn't get me anywhere

[Songtsan]

Okay. That explains everything.

 

Are you sure you want to inter-being and not inner-being?

 

I try to be non-dual but it doesn't work most of the time. Oh well.

 

inner and outer are illusions - there is only awareness and its objects. Just see everything as external, including yourself...maybe? Or you can see it like a set of nested Russian dolls....external contains the internal, which contains a smaller version of the external, which contains a smaller version of the internal, dwindling inwards towards everything and nothing whatsoever

Edited January 24, 2014 by Songtsan

[Marblehead]

inner and outer are illusions - there is only awareness and its objects. Just see everything as external, including yourself...maybe? Or you can see it like a set of nested Russian dolls....external contains the internal, which contains a smaller version of the external, which contains a smaller version of the internal, dwindling inwards towards everything and nothing whatsoever

Oh!, that's too complicated for a simple=minded Materialistic Atheist like myself.

 

What be be.

[dee]

-

Edited February 15, 2014 by dee

[Songtsan]

Oh!, that's too complicated for a simple=minded Materialistic Atheist like myself.

 

What be be.

 

Trueness

[Songtsan]

So the internal; the I am is a illusion? I don't think follow; care to expand please.

 

I will try to explain, although this is meant to be a kind of playful joke thread. Disclaimer though - I am just a scholar type of person, but not directly realized - you might want to take serious questions to those further along...as in, I would hate to be a source of misinformation...so take this as an interesting conjecture, but don't believe anything I say...and, in the spirit of the thread, remember that nothing is absolutely true - "The Tao that can be known is not the Tao" - as in what can be said is just an interpretation of the 'real' - you can't really know what reality is like by thinking about it.

 

Anyways:

 

An illusion, like flame on a log, cannot exist without a substrate, or material on which the process is conducted. Consider reality to be the log, and the I am as the fire. Awareness penetrates both, is inexorably intertwined, and yet also stands somehow untouchable - i.e. its ultimate nature cannot be blemished by the play of matter and energy, only disguised. As the fire is dependent on the log, you cannot separate it from the log - it's an expression of activity of the interplay of material processes. The I am is because the reality it stems from is. Thus, they are not separate. When you say inside/outside, you create two separate things - i.e. 'myself' and 'everything else' - as if you somehow exist apart from reality. 'You' are part of reality, which 'you' are calling the 'external'....so 'internal' (i.e. the mind created concept of), is created from the ground of reality, and is inclusive as part of it - your mind is co-created from reality and is part of the reality. The internal is included in the external - just another part of that whole. 'Parts' in fact, are illusionary demarcations - 'mind constructs,' ideas, etc. Reality is a seamless blend of 'isness' - i.e. itself as it is. Attempts to define things are illusions - they are lie maps for the territory - but the maps lie in the territory itself - they are not in a separate reality. The map of reality in your mind exists within the reality of the body, which exists within the reality of the cosmos. This is the nested doll metaphor...All have the same root - which is the ground of existence.

 

These are all just views however - no matter how you try to understand it, you are just creating mind maps. You must become the territory to understand the territory. When the two become one, then you are in samadhi, AKA 'absorption' where dualities disappear..

 

I think I am confused myself now...

 

What really matters is to actually practice direct seeing, which transcends the mind. This happens when the mind is clear of the maps it creates and reflects reality purely. The 'ego' or I am is a false construction which interferes with direct perception. So what I am saying is that not-thinking will give you a truer understanding of reality than thinking will - if you maintain consciousness during the process...I think?

 

So, in summary - you can get mired in endless mental acrobatics - or go directly to the source by directly looking at the source of all things - whatever that is...

 

really though - don't listen to me!

 

learn to meditate! If these topics interest you, let them motivate you to start a practice of direct awareness.

 

That's what I am trying to do too...

 

If you have a serious question, ask someone who has seen the answer, not someone who has read about the answer...you still won't understand it though when they tell you...you have to see it for yourself.

 

One thing you can do to help you understand from a mental level is to learn the definitions of all these different phrases and terms you see on this site. Don't settle for just one definition either...

Edited January 25, 2014 by Songtsan

[dee]

-

Edited February 15, 2014 by dee

[Songtsan]

I definitely see what you are saying and it makes sense. What I meant to say is that the external (reality) is not in our control; and I was saying the the internal (me, i am, you etc) can be controlled by you and that is how you raise your awareness of yourself.

 

You can control both to some degree - external example: I can pick up a rock and throw it at somebody - therefore I am the external to them. On the other hand - one cannot control the entirety of their internal - can you choose the way that you feel? If that was true, I would choose to feel no hate, no fear, lots of bliss, etc.

[dee]

-

Edited February 15, 2014 by dee

[Songtsan]

No not everything; but I am saying you have control over your psyche with implementing meditation; and becoming aware of yourself. Full control? But you can master yourself to a high degree; maybe even fully. Who knows?

 

I hear that - I just think that we can have significant control over external situations as well - especially as a group...If humans wanted to, we could probably blow up the moon.

[dee]

-

Edited February 15, 2014 by dee

[Songtsan]

The law of attraction is something I'm iffy about. I've implemented it many times and gotten very great success with it; but sometimes I'm scared to try it as it might fail; and then I will give up on the whole idea of it. Your thoughts?

 

Don't be attached to outcomes. Be a child of illusion.

[dee]

-

Edited February 15, 2014 by dee

[Songtsan]

I appreciate your viewpoint on things. I've learned not to expect much of the future as I previously did; but I do have a certain goal of what I want to achieve. With time

 

Pursue the goal without attachment to outcomes. Learn to constantly refine. Being unattached doesn't mean you don't have plans - it means you pursue plans without attachment to outcomes. Continue to refine your methodology, continue to remain unattached as you pursue. Above all be wise in your pursuits. Don't scratch at stone walls with your bare hands.

[Marblehead]

And don't put your nose to the grindstone.

[Songtsan]

Thanks to Dee I have disproved myself!

 

There are at least four absolutes

 

see: http://thetaobums.com/topic/33623-absolutes/

[dee]

-

Edited February 15, 2014 by dee

[Songtsan]

I have done nothing. You should thank yourself for disproving yourself.

 

you actually did - the event was co-originated!

 

❤

[Marblehead]

Are you absolutely sure?

[Songtsan]

Are you absolutely sure?

 

indeed! This knowing is absolute!

 

Yay for absolution!

 

p.s. circles are absolutely round

Edited February 5, 2014 by Songtsan

[idiot_stimpy]

Songtsan you seem to have changed in character somehow. Did you have a recent revelation? Really liking your posts.

[Marblehead]

p.s. circles are absolutely round

Except when they aren't.