Tarot Set for Advanced

[Nungali]

Exactly and that is the problem with the Waite cards.

 

See that Waite six of cups above with the bad Pixie theatre art 'story boards' . One interpretation of the 6 of cups that came from that is - the weird dwarf is trying to lure the little girl, perhaps he is a paedophile? Beware of gifts - caution, danger.

 

I kid you not - this is from a person on the 'best and oldest' tarot site (supposedly) on the net. There are many others equally ridiculous and they are considered valid there - any argument is censored and you get modded for trying to demonstrate otherwise .

 

This and a whole range of similar meanings sweeping through tarot and people moving away from what the cards meant, to what they think they mean from the little pictures, and people arguing, reading and interpreting from those perspectives is what has totally turned me off tarot in the last 10 years. ...

 

no wait ... its the little girl that looks like an old dwarf woman so ....

 

no wait ... its the energy of Tiphareth and Glory in the world of cups and Briah that brings about ONE representation of manifestation in the happiness of the pleasant gift offered as depicted by the boy to the girl ... mixed in with some bad art.

 

But Waite was sworn not to reveal that wasn't he? Crowley just wrote 'happiness' at the bottom of his 6 of Cups and left off the descriptive image picture and opted for the old symbolic style to express the energy of the card - rather than a specific event .

 

But it makes the Waite deck the easiest deck to 'read' .

 

(I am not even going to comment on the 1447 age of Aquarius) ... its actually a simple matter of seeing where the EP is now on an astronomical map, seeing where the asterism of Aquarius is and doing a calculation based , even roughly, on 59.2 arc" annually. . . which is actually decreasing as well.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Nungali

[Seth Ananda]

What do you guys think of these?

 

http://www.daniloff-art.it/Tarocchi%20gallery/Tarot%20by%20Alexander%20Daniloff%202012.htm

[RiverSnake]

I'd say for the very advanced... the entirely blank deck.

 

Bump

[Michael Sternbach]

What do you guys think of these?

 

http://www.daniloff-art.it/Tarocchi%20gallery/Tarot%20by%20Alexander%20Daniloff%202012.htm

 

Beautiful deck, Seth. Ridge in esoteric symbols - and humorous, too. Some of the symbolism makes me think of an influence by the RWS and Thoth decks, or perhaps by the Golden Dawn in general.

[Daeluin]

make you own set

 

Stephen Erikson's masterfully written Malazan Book of the Fallen incorporates a unique pantheon of ascendants, deitys, and elemental forces, personified in a Deck of Dragons. The cards of the deck will evolve as the powers shift and the players change, and readers of the Deck will notice new details emerge in the artwork as situations evolve.

 

I recommend making your own set, choosing the players relative the the situations most pertinent to life as you see it. As things change, add new players, change the artwork, allow the alliances to shift as new groupings form and old ones dissolve.

 

This could be a very interesting experiment in the form of electronic cards continuously updated by a forum of deck masters who observe the changes in the world.

 

The deck is only as advanced or good as the reader

 

"Spinner of Death, Knight of Shadow, Master of the Deck." Fiddler's voice was a cold, almost inhuman growl. "Table holds them, but not the rest." And he started flinging cards, and each one he threw shot like a plate of iron to a lodestone, striking one person after another – hard against their chests, staggering them back a step, and with each impact – as Brys stared in horror – the victim was lifted off the floor, chair tumbling away, and slammed against the wall behind them no matter the distance.

The collisions cracked bones. Backs of heads crunched bloodily on the walls.

It was all happening too fast, with Fiddler standing as if in the heart of a maelstrom, solid as a deep-rooted tree.

The first struck was the girl, Sinn. "Virgin of Death." As the card smacked into her chest it heaved her, limbs flailing, up to a section of wall just beneath the ceiling. The sound she made when she hit was sickening, and she went limp, hanging like a spiked rag doll.

"Sceptre."

Grub shrieked, seeking to fling himself to one side, and the card deftly slid beneath him, fixing onto his chest and shoving him bodily across the floor, up against the wall just left of the door.

Quick Ben's expression was one of stunned disbelief as Fiddler's third card slapped against his sternum. "Magus of Dark." He was thrown into the wall behind him with enough force to send cracks through the plaster and he hung there, motionless as a corpse on a spike.

"Mason of Death." Hedge bleated and made the mistake of turning round. The card struck his back and hammered him face first into the wall, whereupon the card began pushing him upward, leaving a red streak below the unconscious man.

The others followed, quick as a handful of flung stones. In each, the effect was the same. Violent impact, walls that shook. Sanadalath Drukorlat, Queen of Dark. Lostara Yil, Champion of Life.

"Obelisk." Bottle.

Gesler, Orb.

Stormy, Throne.

And then Fiddler faced Brys. "King of Life."

The card flashed out from his hand, glittering like a dagger, and Brys snatched a breath the instant before it struck, eyes closing – he felt the blow, but nowhere near as viciously as had the others, and nothing touched his breast. He opened his eyes to see the card hovering, shivering, in the air before him.

Above it, he met Fiddler's flat eyes.

The sapper nodded. "You're needed."

What?

Two remained untouched, and Fiddler turned to the first and nearest of these. "Banaschar," he said. "You keep poor company. Fool in Chains." He drew a card and snapped out his hand. The ex-priest grunted and was flung back over his chair, whereupon he shot upward to the domed ceiling. Dust engulfed the man at the impact.

Fiddler now faced the Adjunct. "You knew, didn't you?"

Staring, pale as snow, she said nothing.

"For you, Tavore Paran … nothing."

She flinched.

The door suddenly opened, hinges squealing in the frozen silence.

Turudal Brizad stepped into the chamber and then halted. Turudal … no, of course not. The Errant. Who stands unseen behind the Empty Throne. I wondered when you would show yourself. Brys realized he had drawn his sword; realized, too, that the Errant was here to kill him – a deed without reason, a desire without motive – at least none fathomable to anyone but the Errant himself.

He will kill me.

And then Fiddler – for his audacity.

And then everyone else here, so that there be no witnesses.

Fiddler slowly turned to study the Errant. The Malazan's smile was chilling. "If that card was for you," he said, "it would have left the table the moment you opened the door. I know, you think it belongs to you. You think it's yours. You are wrong."

The Errant's lone eye seemed to flare. "I am the Master of the Tiles –"

"And I don't care. Go on then. Play with your tiles, Elder. You cannot stand against the Master of the Deck – your time, Errant, is past."

"I have returned!"

As the Errant, raw power building round him, took another stride into the chamber, Fiddler's low words cut into his path. "I wouldn't do that."

The Elder God sneered. "Do you think Brys Beddict can stop me? Can stop what I intend here?"

Fiddler's brows lifted. "I have no idea. But if you take one more step, Errant, the Master of the Deck will come through. Here, now. Will you face him? Are you ready for that?"

And Brys glanced to that card lying on the table. Inanimate, motionless. It seemed to yawn like the mouth of the Abyss itself, and he suddenly shivered.

Fiddler's quiet challenge had halted the Errant, and Brys saw uncertainty stirred to life on the once-handsome features of Turudal Brizad.

"For what it is worth," Brys Beddict said then, "you would not have made it past me anyway, Errant."

The single eye flicked to him. "Ridiculous."

"I have lived in stone, Elder One. I am written with names beyond counting. The man who died in the throne room is not the man who has returned, no matter what you see."

"You tempt me to crush you," the Errant said in a half-snarl.

Fiddler swung round, stared down at the card on the table. "He is awakened." He faced the Elder God. "It may be too late … for you."

And Brys saw the Errant suddenly step back, once, twice, the third time taking him through the doorway. A moment later and he vanished from sight.

Bodies were sliding slowly towards the floor. As far as Brys could see, not one was conscious. Something eased in the chamber like the release of a breath held far too long.

"Adjunct."

Tavore's attention snapped from the empty doorway back to the sapper.

Spring the ambush. Find your enemy.

"This wasn't a reading," Fiddler said. "No one here was found. No one was claimed. Adjunct, they were marked. Do you understand?"

"I do," she whispered.

"I think," Fiddler said, as grief clenched his face, "I think, I can see the end."

She nodded.

"Tavore," said Fiddler, his voice now ragged. "I am so sorry."

To that, the Adjunct simply shook her head.

And Brys knew, that while he did not understand everything here, he understood enough. And if it could have meant anything, anything at all, he would have repeated Fiddler's words to her. To this Adjunct, this TavoreParan, this wretchedly lonely woman.

At that moment, the limp form of Banaschar settled onto the tabletop, like a corpse being lowered on a noose. As he came to rest, he groaned.

Fiddler walked over and collected the card called the Master of the Deck. He studied it for a moment, and then returned it to the deck in his hands. Glancing over at Brys, he winked.

"Nicely played, Sergeant."

"Felt so lifeless … still does. I'm kind of worried."

Brys nodded. "Even so, the role did not feel … vacant."

"That's true. Thanks."

"You know this Master?"

"Aye."

"Sergeant, had the Errant called your bluff –"

Fiddler grinned. "You would've been on your own, sir. Still, you sounded confident enough."

"Malazans aren't the only ones capable of bluffing."

And, as they shared a true smile, the Adjunct simply stared on, from one man to the other, and said nothing.

 

Stephen Erikson, Dust of Dreams

[Nungali]

What do you guys think of these?

 

http://www.daniloff-art.it/Tarocchi%20gallery/Tarot%20by%20Alexander%20Daniloff%202012.htm

Personally, not much, the style l0oks like modern computer graphics trying to capture some type of old style card or art.

 

Also IMO some of the symbolism is faulty , but they seem common mistakes - like 2 horses instead of four pulling the Chariot, that Waite supports as well. IMO they should be four .... but I am picky ; .... (see).

[Nungali]

Bump

 

I'd say for the very advanced... the entirely blank deck.

 

problem there is, I had one of those, and then I lost a card ... couldnt for the life of me figure out which one it was.

 

[ Really advanced - dont even need any cards ]

[BaguaKicksAss]

So we are doing a 78 week long working, through the entire deck! Should be interesting . I'm not letting complete newbies join us since, well from previous experience, such workings can get pretty intense about halfway through.

 

I bought a couple of new decks for the occasion. I have used the Rider Waite forever, used the Crowley Thoth deck for a few years, no idea where it is now, have a couple of the GD decks, have Lon's deck... but have always wanted to try the even more traditional decks. So I got one Mersaille deck and a Visconti deck. They are awesome! I would say perhaps these 2 for an advanced practitioner, especially one who isn't as adventurous (or perhaps crazy lol) as working with the Nightside tarot.

[Nungali]

Wish I could play.

 

Just curious - a card each week for 78 weeks - what order of the cards are you going to use ?

[BaguaKicksAss]

Wish I could play.

 

Just curious - a card each week for 78 weeks - what order of the cards are you going to use ?

 

I was going to start with ace of discs and work through the discs, then over to cups and so forth. However the spirits I work with suggested that this order would bring our lives a bit more into chaos than we would like and instead suggested ace of pentacles, ace of cups, ace of swords, ace of wands, 2 of pentacles.... and so on order to keep the balance all the way through.

 

You can "join" us if you like... week one spread the entire deck out in that order around you in a circle. Ask the divination Deities you like best to consecrate them and help you with the working and learning and transformation and alchemy and understanding the hidden mysteries of the tarot. Then week 2 bring out your ace of discs and get that individually consecrated, merge with it, and ask said Deity for help in bringing it strongly into your life for 1 week so you may understand it better. Repeat with the rest of the deck .

[BaguaKicksAss]

Back to the original question of this thread, tarot for advanced...

 

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/gummibear/

 

 

What? It's based on the Rider/Waite .

[Nungali]

What a surprise ! Maybe I will put out a deck ( after my book on RW Tarot meanings is finished * ) ... just use the RW backgrounds and put in ... Hello Kitties ( damn, someone beat me to it ) ... ummm , pretty ponies ? Nup. Err... rockpool life ... nup .. OMG !

 

those two images are really BAD together (a sword and an octopus should not be seen - without a symbol in between ! )

 

Ummmm ... I'll get back to you on this.

 

* Nah, I better not put it up here ... maybe I PM it to you .

[closrapexa]

Hi, first post...

 

Am I the only one who thinks the Rider-Waite all wrong? By its own standards (lascivious dwarfs aside) it is a poor attempt and has no consistency in its structure. I'm surprised how venerated Pamela Coleman Smith is considering the pictures aren't that great. It is "groundbreaking" in that it makes people think they're doing divination when in fact most simply find an outlet for their own biases. It isn't advanced, I actually find it childish and prudish and puritanical.

[mYTHmAKER]

A deck is only as good as the reader.

A good reader goes beyond the deck.

A good reader is not literal.

mYTHISmAKER prefers the energy of the Rider Waite

Many decks are too dark

 

http://starkarma9.com/index.html

[Nungali]

Hi, first post...

 

Am I the only one who thinks the Rider-Waite all wrong? By its own standards (lascivious dwarfs aside) it is a poor attempt and has no consistency in its structure. I'm surprised how venerated Pamela Coleman Smith is considering the pictures aren't that great. It is "groundbreaking" in that it makes people think they're doing divination when in fact most simply find an outlet for their own biases. It isn't advanced, I actually find it childish and prudish and puritanical.

 

 

Hi new guy

 

Perhaps that is because of the way Waite approached things generally? His writings seem long winded, convoluted, full of excessive verbiage , pompous, concealing ...

 

As far as it being childish, I think that is in the artist's style and execution. She may have been prudish, but I do get that from Waite's writing as well , concealing ? ... especially the text.

 

It is a great example of Victorian English gentleman's occultism (care to join me in the library for a gin and tonic while we discuss Wallis Budge ? )

 

One thing I have noticed about it. Many people seem to like the pictorial images on the small cards as it helps them to discern or associate a meaning ... a very specific meaning and a more 'fortune telling' type of meaning: "You are about to go on a journey, strife and contention with others, you will wake up from a bad dream, in dispair and think;

 

"Whatever on earth was I thinking when I chose this horrible wallpaper ? "

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which brings me to a whole big question about this I would like to open up

 

 

What do 'youse guys' think about the difference between;

 

 

 

Symbol interpretation and symbol association ?

 

In the R W tarot deck ? (and , if you want to throw it in too; the difference in reading it makes with a deck that has a symbolic or abstract set of minor cards as opposed to ones like RW that depicts a specific scenic image ? )

Edited January 8, 2015 by Nungali

[Nungali]

Actually, this is why I dont like the RW. I feel the depicted image restricts the meaning of each card for many. And an abstract image presents a wider range of 'feel' than the depiction of one image scene of just one potential meaning being acted out.

 

I realised there are all types of other little hints and images and symbols contained within the main image, but many who like the deck and go off the picture on a minor often dont seem to have the symbolic 'Nous' happening. In any case they represent Waite's meanings and interpretations ... and they come from all over the place and can be hodge podge and require a lot of background reading of obscure Waiteism .  Even so, if one did that, one would have to feel an affinity with his system ... if one could discern it .

 

Or just stay on the surface , but again with a restricted meaning.

 

I dont see the image on each card as full picture, many that use the image partially ignore or seem to give little signifcance to 

 

the Qabbalistic arrangements ( the number progressions of the small cards)

 

The suits and their associations with the 'four worlds'

 

The astrology associated with the cards

 

And the decanic correlations and a'assignments'

 

.... well, that can be poo-pooed  BUT  it was an essential part of the Tarot Waite would have studied from the Golden Dawn ( see the G.D. Book T  (on Tarot) .

 

So by restricting that and just using a secenic image. I contest that he restricted meaning.

[Nungali]

A deck is only as good as the reader.

A good reader goes beyond the deck.

A good reader is not literal.

mYTHISmAKER prefers the energy of the Rider Waite

Many decks are too dark

 

http://starkarma9.com/index.html

 

Huh? dont get the link .... I thought it was going to show what you meant by 'too dark'

 

like these;

 

http://api.ning.com/files/H-0sMHGcA*OJyX319QmsQ9qW3QKtmbQXfSXFimQNdwQ3HUx26i-u*W6Xi-Bx9T5fYiIofezLvesIkAuQM7qjd2bNVx9aXkUa/Taror_cards_by_Ironshod.jpg

[mYTHmAKER]

Huh? dont get the link .... I thought it was going to show what you meant by 'too dark'

 

like these;

 

http://api.ning.com/files/H-0sMHGcA*OJyX319QmsQ9qW3QKtmbQXfSXFimQNdwQ3HUx26i-u*W6Xi-Bx9T5fYiIofezLvesIkAuQM7qjd2bNVx9aXkUa/Taror_cards_by_Ironshod.jpg

Yes the ones you chose are dark.

I sent mYTHISmAKERS link - a reader of the light

[Nungali]

'The Black and the White are harnessed to his car'

 

[Nungali]

Oh sure ... with divination, as such ... but then. one can use cast yarrow stalks ... or observe the 'signs of nature' for just divination.

 

But IMO the Tarot has a much wider and more important usage than divination alone ... and here is where such ... image Vs information seems more important.

[closrapexa]

The main problem with the RWS is that it is basically a visual game of broken telephone. It is Waite's prudish interpretation of GD doctrine, conveyed badly to Smith, and then interpreted again by her, a low level member without knowledge of context and purpose. While shadows of the original Book T meanings are actually delivered, they are shallow and pale and serve mainly for mundane fortune telling purposes. In itself that's not bad, but it isn't considered "just another" deck. It is considered THE deck, and so has a harmful effect on Tarot at large.

 

It is true that it is the easiest to interpret, but it is also true that it is easiest to interpret very badly. In those same "vulgar" interpretations, New Age books, etc. the meanings of cards like Death bear great resemblance to the Fool. Heck, I think the term "new beginnings" appears in every card, whether the card warrants it or not.

 

While the occult symbolism is there, and one can (sometimes with difficulty) discern the overall GD structure, the Minors take one, very specific angle of the cards' meanings and take it to its limit.

 

What deck do I think is advanced? I think a deck that takes Tarot itself to greater heights, not merely glorified flash cards. The use of a deck needn't dictate how good it is.

[Trivette]

Maybe the Waite deck should not be evaluated by comparison with the Golden Dawn Tarot. Even the Trumps deviate from the GD pattern. The Pips apparently do follow the GD decan titles, but there is no way that they can incorporate the fullness of meaning of the decans. I use the images merely as memory aids to evoke the titles. 

 

The Waite is not really a Golden Dawn deck. While it may have had an inordinate amount of influence on the design of  modern Tarot trash decks, that is not a valid reason to diss it. As for being prudish, tastes vary according to their cultural environment. The Golden Dawn Tarot may be considered prudish in comparison with the Thoth and Thoth clones, but so what? There is full frontal nudity in the Waite Devil and Lovers cards, although rather rudimentary in graphic execution.

[RiverSnake]

Prisma Vision Tarot. One of the most beautiful decks i've ever seen.

 

http://prismavisionstarot.com/

Edited June 6, 2015 by OldChi

[Michael Sternbach]

Maybe the Waite deck should not be evaluated by comparison with the Golden Dawn Tarot.

 

It is a "Golden Dawn deck" only to a limited degree. It's true that it was the first published deck to introduce GD peculiarities like the switch between Trumps VIII and XI, but it doesn't follow the GD scheme i.e. for the Court Cards - to make just two of the more obvious comparisons.

 

The fairly new Golden Dawn Magical Tarot adheres to the GD system closely, however. It was designed especially for use in Golden Dawn type Ceremonial Magick. It even has a second Temperance cards as required for the Portal ritual.

 

https://www.llewellyn.com/product_excerpt.php?ean=9780738723396&excerpt_id=39489

 

Even the Trumps deviate from the GD pattern. The Pips apparently do follow the GD decan titles, but there is no way that they can incorporate the fullness of meaning of the decans. I use the images merely as memory aids to evoke the titles. 

 

The more abstract a card's symbolism, the wider its possible meanings. What an advanced reader may appreciate seems to be overwhelming for some beginners, however.

 

The Waite is not really a Golden Dawn deck. While it may have had an inordinate amount of influence on the design of  modern Tarot trash decks, that is not a valid reason to diss it. As for being prudish, tastes vary according to their cultural environment. The Golden Dawn Tarot may be considered prudish in comparison with the Thoth and Thoth clones, but so what? There is full frontal nudity in the Waite Devil and Lovers cards, although rather rudimentary in graphic execution.

 

On another forum, I once talked with a Tarot reading lady who pulled all the cards showing nudity out of the Waite deck before her boy (an elementary school kid) was going too look at it. We all told her not to be so prudish and to stick them back in.

 

Prisma Vision Tarot. One of the most beautiful decks i've ever seen.

 

http://prismavisionstarot.com/

 

Nice gloomy deck. Thanks for sharing.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Michael Sternbach

[Michael Sternbach]

The main problem with the RWS is that it is basically a visual game of broken telephone.

 

No, the telephone is not broken; however, arguably it has a rotary dial. Gotta know how to use it, dude.