The Truth About Nelson Mandela (Stefan Molyneux)

[eye_of_the_storm]

[thelerner]

Nothing like listening to an old white guy expounding the benefits of apartheid South Africa. Particularly when he launches into a long diatribe about how much better the blacks had back then. He recalls the good old days, Jim Crow on steroids, when blacks knew there place and would be punished and tortured if they didn't. I was waiting for him to talk about the many benefits African American got out of being taken slaves, but it wasn't on this youtube. I wouldn't eat with him because I assume anyone colored making his food would go way beyond just spitting in it.

 

I doubt he considers himself a rascist and would be offended at the accusation, but I'm sure he's bookmarked by every Klan and neo Nazi member who has a computer. When I hear him speak, I also hear his brethren, black ones with same calm logical air, discussing why Whites are devils. Cataloging the crimes, punctuating the worst historic acts, explaining why they're so evil. You'd wouldn't have to change that many words.

 

This assassination piece on Mandela a week or 2 after his death is well done. Moving from how he's a murderous commie to he's a terrorist, describing how many people he's responsible for killing, describing slit throats- flaming tires around necks. Starting with150 killed, moving through the speech to 1,000's then millions then getting 10's of millions killed.

 

His template is classic. People have used it to stir up hatred and murder for a long long time. The fist pounding radicals aren't as dangerous, don't have the body count of the soft spoken logician. Its easy to see the Westboro Church people as clowns, but when it comes to spreading hate, they're nowhere near as effective as people like this. Such people cut cross all races and religions.. they cut and leave a wide red swath. Maybe not so much in the U.S. where we've moved away from lynching and mob action, but in the third world and anywhere desperation rules, these guys have a field day. They're kings on a pale horse.

 

This genteel style of racism is powerful because most of it is true. Ofcourse not the whole truth, in many ways its the opposite. It's an easy formula, focus on worst aspects of a person or people then find recent paper clippings of dark acts done by followers then go through the history books digging up the worst events and acts. Its not hard, its probably easier for black guys to do it, since Apartheid's crimes happened daily to millions and spanned generations.

 

He's playing white against black. I'm sure he's very good Christian versus Islam. When listening you need to understand the game is played equally well by both sides. Rifts on hate, innuendo. Humorously and horribly its equally true- about both sides particularly with a skilled orator, which he certainly is. People like him on both sides a religious quarrel will keep a little terror war running for millenia. They get there target audience, riled up, minds closed, pockets often open. Rush Limbaugh, Fox network, keep'em scared, be first to coin the Feminazi's, trade on fear, self righteousness.

 

Back on track. Apartheid was going to end at some point. Being ushered away by a man like Mandela who preached forgiveness and tolerance was probably a better way for it to go out then from a hate monger and there were many on both sides. Some conditions in South Africa may suck right now, but it could have worse, a true blood bath, massacre and counter massacre running on for decades.

Edited January 25, 2014 by thelerner

[yabyum24]

@white wolf. This kind of stuff slowly poisons the minds of those who pay heed to it. They won't even notice it transforming their minds. It's the slow drip-feed of hate that's the easiest to absorb (and thus justify) and the most insidious.

[eye_of_the_storm]

I think he is an atheist.

About 90% sure

and your argument is 100% non-existent / imaginary, imagined, unreal, fictional, fictitious, made up, invented,hypothetical, suppositional, fancied, fanciful

Edited January 26, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Apech]

Well I'm all for freedom of expression but I find this guy's lack of grasp of anything bewildering. Nothing new that Mandela was a terrorist (Thatcher called him one) and then the long stream of statistics (many of which have nothing to do with South Africa or Mandela) to prove what? that South Africa has economic and social problems ... no attempt to show whether things were better or worse because of Mandela, no mention of truth and reconciliation and that actually the feared blood bath was avoided ... yes, Mandela has been made into some kind of saint by the media which in real life he cannot be. Oh and Winnie Mandela was at her worst when he was locked up ... so I can't se how he is responsible for what she did either.

 

The tone of his whole talk was racist ... blacks this, whites that ... I can't help but feel that his slick (but annoying ) presentation hides something more ugly.

[silent thunder]

Take great care what you allow yourself to hate.

It will become you.

[i am]

Yes though I feel like I like you, most of your posts on this forum come from a hateful, insulting place. It's too bad.

[yabyum24]

 

your argument is 100% non-existent

No argument wolf, just an observation born of personal experience and I mean it well, as I've been there. I personally wouldn't give this stuff the time of day.

 

The man's anger is not yours, you don't have to take ownership of it. Let him keep it:

 

 

 

The Reviler

Once while the Blessed One stayed near Rajagaha in the Veluvana Monastery at the Squirrels' Feeding Place, there lived at Rajagha a Brahman of the Bharadvaja clan who was later called "the Reviler." When he learned that one of his clan had gone forth from home life and had become a monk under the recluse Gotama, he was angry and displeased. And in that mood he went to see the Blessed One, and having arrived he reviled and abused him in rude and harsh speech.

Thus being spoken to, the Blessed One said: "How is it, Brahman: do you sometimes receive visits from friends, relatives or other guests?"

"Yes, Master Gotama, I sometimes have visitors."

"When they come, do you offer to them various kinds of foods and a place for resting?"

"Yes, I sometimes do so."

"But if, Brahman, your visitors do not accept what you offer, to whom does it then belong?"

"Well, Master Gotama, if they do not accept it, these things remain with us."

"It is just so in this case, Brahman: you revile us who do not revile in return, you scold us who do not scold in return, you abuse us who do not abuse in return. So we do not accept it from you and hence it remains with you, it belongs to you, Brahman..."

 

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/piyatissa/bl068.html

[eye_of_the_storm]

You think this guy was expressing hate?

So... if you don't worship Mandela you are hateful? odd

It seems anything that goes even slightly against the status quo is "hate speech"

"Political Correctness" killing free speech since the Bolsheviks

What can one expect though with the masses raised in Marxist indoctrination camps (Government Education)?

 

Your hero worship blinds you and binds you to false gods.

Edited January 26, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[idiot_stimpy]

@white wolf. This kind of stuff slowly poisons the minds of those who pay heed to it. They won't even notice it transforming their minds. It's the slow drip-feed of hate that's the easiest to absorb (and thus justify) and the most insidious.

 

Thats why its very important to turn off the television. This is exactly what television does to people without them realizing it.

Edited January 27, 2014 by idiot_stimpy

[eye_of_the_storm]

Regarding African Slavery people should see the work of Dr Tony Martin

Edited January 27, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

No argument wolf, just an observation born of personal experience and I mean it well, as I've been there. I personally wouldn't give this stuff the time of day.

 

The man's anger is not yours, you don't have to take ownership of it. Let him keep it:

 

So you agree with me?

 

haha

 

That comment was @ thelerner anyway

Edited January 27, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[yabyum24]

What can one expect though with the masses raised in Marxist indoctrination camps (Government Education)?

I'm not sure where you'd need to be philosophically, to describe western schools in such terms.

 

When I was a kid, Mandela was in prison and considered a terrorist by the establishment, along with anyone else who wasn't white and was asking for equality.

 

I don't "worship" anyone btw, so no worries on that score.

[thelerner]

You think this guy was expressing hate? <In a pseudo intellectual fashion. Yes. As I explained doing it in classic fashion>

 

So... if you don't worship Mandela you are hateful? odd < Uh, you think there's a religion Mandelianism? There's not. No one worships him. Many admire him. I think a long diatribe moving from the 100's to the millions dead because of him seems a stretch>

 

It seems anything that goes even slightly against the status quo is "hate speech" <Hyperbole. Being respectful to a man who died may be status quo. A long speech of why they are a horrible murderer is kinda close to hate speech. Often 'slightly' doesn't build up to 1000's then millions then tens of millions dead. Seems to go beyond slightly, imo.

 

"Political Correctness" killing free speech since the Bolsheviks <Its the 2000's, blaming the Commies went out in 1960's. He's criticized and its killing free speech. Please look up definition of free speech. >

 

What can one expect though with the masses raised in Marxist indoctrination camps (Government Education)? <The U.S is a Marxist indocrination camp? Hah, I don't even think China and Russia are any more. You're simply 40 years out of date. >

 

Your hero worship blinds you and binds you to false gods. <?? If you admire someone it doesn't mean you think they're god. You realize you are using hyperbole? Your assuming how I feel about Mandela and you're wrong. Not a god, not a perfect man, not close, but he evolved and helped a nation during a very turbulent time.

 

There are News Sources that specialize in hysteria. The Schools are Marxist, Everyone thinks -blank- is a god. People who listen and read them, don't get a good picture of whats going on. Your writing is infused with hyperbole and hysteria that those sites sell. You make generation after generalization and most of them imo are ridiculous.

 

If a person is interested in Mandela I think its important to learn the whole story. Molyneux speech contains some and it needs to be (and is) disclosed in any full real biography. Don't expect it during the man's funeral though. I'm not outraged by the information, but I realize its ignoring a huge part of the full story. Lying through omission. And when the speaker gets into the wonderful world of apartheid and how blacks should miss it. Then he's using Mandela's death as a platform for racist views. Imo.

 

You don't realize another speaker could make just as convincing a speech against the Apartheid Government? That a good speaker couldn't wax about the torture and evil on the other side? I assume you're so one sided you can't conceive of another side being also correct.

 

You're into Communism, ie you see it everywhere. I don't see communism as the cause of deaths of millions. Frankly I see people who whip up hate being responsible. Maybe they've gotten more free reign during communist regimes, but Molyneux is about (maybe inadvertently) spreading the hate. And thats what I dislike about him versus a man like Mandela who spent his later years putting out fires caused by people on both sides who liked nothing more then enrage there followers about the absolute evil of the other.

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2014 by thelerner

[thelerner]

Just to be crystal clear. Mandela isn't one of my heroes, I admire his later life but I'm by no means a fan. I think Stefan Molyneux shouldn't be pointing his finger at Mandela or Communism. Who killed the millions and tens of millions he talked about? I think he did. He did. He's responsible.

 

or rather.. People who spread hate are responsible. You listened, you bought it. How do you feel? Like revenge. Those murderous communists, they're everywhere, murderous and must be punished. Those silly blacks, reacting so strongly against Apartheid. Thats how you feel and thats how your meant/manipulated to feel. Poor you, poor white people..

 

That kind of speaker regardless of color creed or religion is in my opinion responsible for most mass murders. That damning human tendency. It can be fought by stopping the hate. Not speeches that say We are so right, They are so wrong.

 

The answer is law and justice tempered with mercy and forgiveness. Protect yourself, protect the weak but fight against the instinct of hatred and revenge.

[Apech]

Just to be crystal clear. Mandela isn't one of my heroes, I admire his later life but I'm by no means a fan. I think Stefan Molyneux shouldn't be pointing his finger at Mandela or Communism. Who killed the millions and tens of millions he talked about? I think he did. He did. He's responsible.

 

or rather.. People who spread hate are responsible. You listened, you bought it. How do you feel? Like revenge. Those murderous communists, they're everywhere, murderous and must be punished. Those silly blacks, reacting so strongly against Apartheid. Thats how you feel and thats how your meant/manipulated to feel. Poor you, poor white people..

 

That kind of speaker regardless of color creed or religion is in my opinion responsible for most mass murders. That damning human tendency. It can be fought by stopping the hate. Not speeches that say We are so right, They are so wrong.

 

The answer is law and justice tempered with mercy and forgiveness. Protect yourself, protect the weak but fight against the instinct of hatred and revenge.

 

 

I did wonder while listening to all those statistics about murder and rape if it had occurred to Mr. Molyneux that the statistics released by the previous apartheid were accurate. Did he also factor in that being a second class citizen in your own country and the effects of colonialism coupled with economic deprivation might make people more aggressive. I have no doubt that a deal was struck before Mandela was released that he was to be built into this unifying figure, beyond blame, in order to try to hold South Africa together and avoid civil war and disintegration. Not a bad idea really. At some point a proper objective analysis of who he was and what he achieved is needed. But probably not yet and certainly not in the style of Molyneux.