Semen Retention Dangers

[Trunk]

Wrote a little essay on semen retention dangers. No news in there for anyone who 's been around for a while, but will be a useful reference for newbies, future conversations. If anyone wants to say more on this topic for posterity (and there's probably plenty more to say), this thread 'd be a good place.

[sunshine]

Wrote a little essay on semen retention dangers. No news in there for anyone who 's been around for a while, but will be a useful reference for newbies, future conversations. If anyone wants to say more on this topic for posterity (and there's probably plenty more to say), this thread 'd be a good place.

 

Much appreciated!!!

 

[Ryan McCoole]

Much appreciated!!!

 

 

 

My Thanks as well!

[Spectrum]

Might want to add something about the dangers of retro-ejaculation from the HT "locking" methods.

[Trunk]

Might want to add something about the dangers of retro-ejaculation from the HT "locking" methods.

You missed it: At the bottom of the essay is a link to MWinn's post about the "million dollar point".

 

 

~ later edit ~

Added a phrase by the link to Winn's post, in case people aren't familiar with the term: "million dollar point".

Manual locking techniques are not recommended!

[MatthewQi]

Well, hmm...

 

In my experience, the million $ point technique works well (with the big draw). Good to consider moving beyond that, but I wouldn't rule it out as a valuable technique.

 

Best!

 

Matt

[宁]

I have a simmilar experience.

The Finger Lock works, but you have to move the energy, otherwise you get trouble.

If you cannot do the Big Draw after it, Testicle Breathing works as well.

 

Lill'

[turbo]

Trunk,

 

I skimmed the essay, and did not find any mention of what period of time you consider retention. A week, two, a month? When is one practicing retention versus general energy management? ie: I'd better not tonight as I've got a big day tomorrow.

 

Thanks for the wisdom on your site, its a gold mine.

[agharta]

My question about retetion, which probably isn't a fair one, is: How can I predict/control when ejaculating will actually give me MORE energy? This has happened at least 3 times in the last 9 years or so, since I started paying attention.

[Ryan McCoole]

I've read it gives more energy right after, but then your body works to replenish the Jing and it slows you down. However there have been times where I'm like "Ah! I needed to release here because the toxins were building up, etc."

Edited July 8, 2007 by Ryan McCoole

[Spectrum]

Test your Ph. Ride it like a wave. There are down cycles and there are upcycles.

[Trunk]

I skimmed the essay, and did not find any mention of what period of time you consider retention. A week, two, a month? When is one practicing retention versus general energy management? ie: I'd better not tonight as I've got a big day tomorrow.

"S. retention" means that you've had aroused sexual activity, to the extent that you've approached orgasm, and then you've with-held ejaculation. Choosing not to have sex is different.

Added to the essay, for clarity:

(By the way, "semen retention" refers to when there's been aroused sexual activity, approaching orgasm, but no ejaculation. Saved aroused jing is much more difficult to harmonize and refine than unaroused.)

 

 

In my experience, the million $ point technique works well (with the big draw). Good to consider moving beyond that, but I wouldn't rule it out as a valuable technique.

None of the dangers listed are %100 garunteed to cause injury; some people get hurt, some don't. I assume MWinn saw a high enough proportion of people get hurt with the million $ point, that he wrote what he wrote. Same thing with the way iron shirt packing used to be taught; some few people would show up on the boards and describe getting great stuff out of it, but also enough people were getting hurt that the percentages weren't good - and there are safer ways to do it anyway. "Individual cases may vary."

[MatthewQi]

Ironically, after having used the million $ point with big draw for a couple months and then when I ejaculated the day after or so I had many of my deeper spiritual experiences / openings.

[Yoda]

Here's the vid:

 

[iadnon]

The pressing finger works fine... just to stop shooting! Anyway I don't trust that technique as something healthy. I thing it's better to shoot it all if you fail to surf the crest.

 

When I started up using it (some years ago), I found out it appeared some tension from the anus to the tip of the penis after using it in an orgasm, as a slim tension cable. The sensation was there for some days.

 

In another place I read that you had to massage the perineum part and the testes after such practice in order to release the tension.

 

The saw says: let the water flow...

[gendao]

Same thing with the way iron shirt packing used to be taught; some few people would show up on the boards and describe getting great stuff out of it, but also enough people were getting hurt that the percentages weren't good - and there are safer ways to do it anyway. "Individual cases may vary."

Interesting, is there an article or post on the dangers of iron shirt packing too?

[Trunk]

Interesting, is there an article or post on the dangers of iron shirt packing too?

Read through the Iron Shirt 1 section at AlchemicalTaoism.com.

[spyrelx]

Nice essay, thanks. A few comments,

 

You might want to mention methods for breaking up the stagnation. E.g., massage, strong physical exercise, increased meditation, etc.

 

I think what's omitted in your essay (and in most "retention-bashing" articles) is any disscusion of the tremendous benefits that this practice provides, even for the "casual practitioner" (as most everyone is).

 

First and foremost is the very real increase in both quality and length of sexual pleasure, for both the retainer and his partner. This is an extraordinary benefit of this practice and it's rare to find a man (or woman) who -- despite any other negative comments they might have --won't admit that this benefit is significant.

[turbo]

One more question: How is the stagnation brought upon by retention affected by massage of the pelvic area including prostate and the "crystal wand" internal massage advocated by Owl?

 

Thanks.

[mbanu]

Stagnation and heat problems aren't caused by retention so much as they are exaggerated by retention. The underlying problem is usually a byproduct of having genetics and diet geared for cold weather and an active lifestyle when most lead sedentary lives in temperature controlled environments.

 

Having weak kidneys brought on by chronic sleep debt, dehydration, sexual excess, and an over reliance on stimulants doesn't help, either. The kidney problem is tricky, because to retain the sexual essence, one needs good kidneys, but without that ability, they can be hard to rehabilitate.

 

Retention is also difficult without making certain psychological adjustments. Many men are raised in cultures that encourage sexual objectification for various reasons. Unfortunately, this can make the ministerial fire harder to work with, as every time one sees another person, the focus is on the body, not on the person. One shouldn't swing into "mortification of the flesh" territory, but one should cultivate the ability to communicate heart to heart, rather than cock to mouth. This is a lot easier said than done.

 

Alchemy practices tend to make all of this a lot worse, as one is generally more experienced with the warm up phase than the cooling down practices.

 

All of this should be worked on if one wants to enjoy the benefits of retention.

 

However, the benefits of sexual moderation are open to everyone.

[宁]

Great post, mbanu!

[Taoist81]

Citations would be a good addition as would distinguishing between simple retention and misused alchemical techniques. Throughout the ages various groups have used coitus reservatus in just about every context imaginable. Further by stating that retention is "sexual arousal/activity without ejaculation" one runs into the contradiction that men with vasectomies have regular sex without the ability to ejaculate. Their bodies still produce sperm, but after some time it is simply broken down and disseminated via the circulatory system. The same thing happens when one practices retention without any practices whatsoever. The Oneida practiced retention, no alchemy and no reports of the problems you address. Various tantric sects (of the neo variety) practiced retention, no massive reports of problems. Many non-taoist-priest-type TCM doctors of the past recommended restricting how often you ejaculated but not how often you engaged in sexual activity, they didn't teach alchemy and in their extensive note keeping didn't report the problems that are addressed here. Now this does not include the "million dollar point" technique because someone could easily hurt themselves by applying too much pressure to the prostate or causing excessive retrograde ejaculations.

However, one should always accept the possibility that one can be wrong, so, if you could provide citations of studies that show the dangers of retaining semen, then okay. Thus far however, there don't seem to be any. Physiologically and psychologically (assuming the individual in question does not already have extensive psychological problems) speaking there is no danger inherent in refraining from ejaculation.

[spyrelx]

All good points Taoist81.

 

My own view is that "causal" retention doesn't cause many problems. By "casual" I mean the non-obsessive goal of trying not to ejaculate over a period of regular sexual activity, where in fact you do ejaculate once in a while. (E.g, you have sex 3 or 4 times a week and you come every few weeks. Or perhaps you retain up to a few months once in a while).

 

I think that Keith's article is referring to what happens when people tend to get obsessive about it, maintaing for long periods of time while engaging in lots stimulation of of the sex organs. And I do think a lot of what the article references can be noticed even within 3 or 4 weeks of retention coupled with vigorous sexual activity. As I said earlier, a lot has to do with how one is channeling all that built up energy.

 

I don't believe that the daoist spin on retention (that is, channelling the energy to various points in the body) causes any additional problems than the "mere retention" practiced by other systems. Indeed, channelling -- if it were actually done and done properly -- would tend to alleviate some of the stagnation issues mentioned in keith's article.

[freeform]

Physiologically and psychologically (assuming the individual in question does not already have extensive psychological problems) speaking there is no danger inherent in refraining from ejaculation.

 

Have you got citations for that?

 

 

Keith is dilligently keeping record of what has been happening on 'the HT scene' - he's not writing a medical book - just as you're hardly likely to prove that refraining from ejaculation causes no problems Keith would have a hard time proving it otherwise - so he doesn't try to, he collects experiences and anecdotes of other practitioners and puts it in his own words and in one place.

 

Also it's quite easy to notice it in yourself - opening your body up allows for a lot of sensitivity and you know when you're stagnating - and you certainly feel when you're stagnating and have the energetic pressure of retention creating an even bigger, deeper blockage.

 

I dont practice retention - moderate sexual activity for me at this time... I was ignorantly using the million dollar point when I was younger, thankfully I didn't have any lasting adverse effects - one guy here was reporting foamy urine every time he urinated...

[Trunk]

You might want to mention methods for breaking up the stagnation. ...

Many solutions scattered throughout the site. Though none of them guaranteed.

 

I think what's omitted in your essay ... is any discussion of the tremendous benefits that this practice provides,

That's not the job of this essay. Plenty of other essays at my site. This essay is a "fair warning" of bad things that can happen, and to provide some minimal understanding of the mechanics of "what can go wrong". This is the "minus column" in decision making.

 

It is not an argument that someone should / shouldn't retain.

 

It's like someone who rides a motorcycle should know about the increased risks vs. driving a car. Whether they choose to ride a motorcycle, all the time, occasionally recreationally, or not at all - totally up to them. But they should know about the risk, as part of an informed decision.