Dzogchen "Direct Introduction" Videos

[asunthatneversets]

I transmit the teachings from the transmissions that I received and realized. That is how transmission works. :-)

 

You certainly teach far more than you've realized.

[Apech]

I never agreed to any model that requires some kind of "authorization". There are no rules in Dzogchen. This is not like going to a university and ending up getting a degree and authorization to teach. I don't accept the model... However Norbu did tell me I could teach Semde when I asked him about ten years ago. But I don't take orders or seek permissions from Norbu or anyone... I am free of all that. But the issue should be "quality control". That will always be an issue, even when given "permission". Steven Seagal was given permission to teach Dzogchen after he gave a million dollar contribution to I believe was Penor Rinpoche, who then recognized him as a Tulku... Lol...

 

 

You have something of a point I suppose, in that someone could be authorised to teach like Mr. Seagal because of cash donations and not through demonstrating proper understanding and realisation. I note also that you do not accept any model involving rules. But it was not so much rules that I was thinking of but more a kind of respect. If you gain realisation as a result of transmission then it is out of respect for the teacher who was kind enough to give you the transmission which as a seed gave rise to the realisation that you, having explained the nature of your insight, request authority to teach. But you say Norbu has said that you can teach Samde. But you do not seem to consider yourself to be teaching his lineage teachings but that you are teaching on the basis of your own insight.

 

I have no problem with anyone teaching anything they want to anyone who cares to listen. People can decide for themselves on the basis of what they hear and understand whether to practice what is taught or no. If you use a term like Dzogchen then I think it is important to be explicit about where you are coming from and why you are using that term - and that you are not teaching from within a true lineage.

[Apech]

Yes, "thriving" indeed!

 

Yes thriving spiritually with teachers who fully understand the path and able to transmit and give empowerments. They are not 'museum pieces' they are living traditions.

[C T]

I think it is important to be explicit about where you are coming from and why you are using that term - and that you are not teaching from within a true lineage.

In your mind, what would be an acceptable, positive way to phrase "not teaching from within a true lineage" without appearing foolish? (sincere question -- for possible future use... just in case).

[Apech]

In your mind, what would be an acceptable, positive way to phrase "not teaching from within a true lineage" without appearing foolish? (sincere question -- for possible future use... just in case).

 

I don't know ... maybe spontaneously realised or something like that. When I say true lineage perhaps I should have said existing lineage or something similar. It could be argued that Buddha had no lineage. Also if in the unlikely event that I were to pursue a Jax like approach I think I might point out that when I use terms like Dzogchen and so on this does not imply that I am teaching Buddhist or Bon Dzogchen. After all why use Tibetan terms at all. Why not say I teach a Great Perfection or similar?

[C T]

I don't know ... maybe spontaneously realised or something like that. When I say true lineage perhaps I should have said existing lineage or something similar. It could be argued that Buddha had no lineage. Also if in the unlikely event that I were to pursue a Jax like approach I think I might point out that when I use terms like Dzogchen and so on this does not imply that I am teaching Buddhist or Bon Dzogchen. After all why use Tibetan terms at all. Why not say I teach a Great Perfection or similar?

Thats a reasonable line of thought. Maybe the term is used in an expedient manner. After all, if we really want to get to the barest, most profound level, we cannot even dare to fit a descriptive term to the state of great perfection, i guess.

 

Wasn't it said somewhere that Dzogchen predates Bon and Buddhism in Tibet? Not sure. Have you heard similar?

[Apech]

Thats a reasonable line of thought. Maybe the term is used in an expedient manner. After all, if we really want to get to the barest, most profound level, we cannot even dare to fit a descriptive term to the state of great perfection, i guess.

 

Wasn't it said somewhere that Dzogchen predates Bon and Buddhism in Tibet? Not sure. Have you heard similar?

 

Yes I have heard that said. I have no idea if it is true in a historical sense but of course the term Dzogchen cannot exist before the Tibetan language.

 

My own researches into Ancient Egypt and so on have led me to the firm conclusion that ever since there were modern humans (i.e. about 250,000 years or so) there has been enquiry of this sort (into the primordial nature of our being) and that far from there being a progression of improvement in doing this we are getting worse. In fact all the codification into different systems Taoist, Buddhist etc. is done in the face of growing difficulty in accessing our true nature. A long time ago there would have been many masters available to us and they would be able to point easily to that which we seek. Nowadays because our minds are so confused and soaked in materiality it is a lot harder. Its very easy to see for instance that the Egyptians codified things at times of stress - social and economic collapse and so on - so there was a sense that this knowledge is going to be lost so we had better set it down and protect it or we will forget for ever.

 

I think Buddhism ( and I am referring mainly to mahayana) because of the profundity of the View is spectacularly successful at adaptation - so the idea of absorbing pre-Buddhist shamanic practices to create the Dzogchen school is wholly believable.

 

Maybe I have been lucky in finding inspiring teachers with the existing Kagyu and Sakhya lineages - presumably I have some connection to them - maybe others don't have this - I certainly don't recognise the way in which Jax has characterised them as having little to offer.

[C T]

Yes I have heard that said. I have no idea if it is true in a historical sense but of course the term Dzogchen cannot exist before the Tibetan language.

 

My own researches into Ancient Egypt and so on have led me to the firm conclusion that ever since there were modern humans (i.e. about 250,000 years or so) there has been enquiry of this sort (into the primordial nature of our being) and that far from there being a progression of improvement in doing this we are getting worse. In fact all the codification into different systems Taoist, Buddhist etc. is done in the face of growing difficulty in accessing our true nature. A long time ago there would have been many masters available to us and they would be able to point easily to that which we seek. Nowadays because our minds are so confused and soaked in materiality it is a lot harder. Its very easy to see for instance that the Egyptians codified things at times of stress - social and economic collapse and so on - so there was a sense that this knowledge is going to be lost so we had better set it down and protect it or we will forget for ever.

 

I think Buddhism ( and I am referring mainly to mahayana) because of the profundity of the View is spectacularly successful at adaptation - so the idea of absorbing pre-Buddhist shamanic practices to create the Dzogchen school is wholly believable.

 

Maybe I have been lucky in finding inspiring teachers with the existing Kagyu and Sakhya lineages - presumably I have some connection to them - maybe others don't have this - I certainly don't recognise the way in which Jax has characterised them as having little to offer.

Most evident is the decline in the number of practitioners attaining rainbow bodies in contemporary times. There used to be hundreds still being recorded up until a couple of centuries ago. Nowadays, the mood has shifted to discovering post-crematory relics of masters, one of the ways to sustain traditional reverence, i am thinking. Read somewhere some lama said in this day and age no one will be able to physically dissolve into rainbow light anymore due to the grossness of the existence of this aeon.

 

Just to point out, in case you or anyone is interested, the sudden exposure to one's primordial, stainless nature is not necessarily dependent on nor shaped by shamanic practice, but the process of bringing stability to that realization can be deemed to be to be shamanic, with all the prime practices like tummo, togal etc being akin to shamanistic trends found in other cultures.

 

Certainly, it would appear that to dismiss traditional, healthy lineages as outdated and useless seems rather flippant, but on the other hand, within those traditions, if one were to adhere strictly to basic practice requirements, then one ought to be ready to spend many many hours trying to decipher a lot of very vague, yet essential approaches at the beginning which then opens the gate to the higher tantras in due course. In the meantime, aside from the investment of time, there is the issue of money, which we all know can be real challenge in this modern age of jet-setting, celebrity-like lamas. This is often the bane of many sincere beginners who want to devote more (energy, time, effort) but fail to find the necessary sustainability to last the distance.

 

Just some odd thoughts, as usual.

[gatito]

Lineage listed, thanks .

 

OK so, 3 people say he's legit, 2 do not.

 

Difficult to tell on TTBs.

 

I guess it's more about whether the vids speak to each person or not...

 

PS Jax, feel free to acquire a PPF for your vids if at anytime you feel like posting them without folks tearing them/you apart.

 

I'm pretty sure there would have been a nicer way to say your opinions though.

 

*Wanders off to check some IPs*

 

Scroll up, found it.

 

 

OK questioning is good, trashing on folks is not.

 

I'm very much in agreement with your sentiments here BKA

 

I'd also add that it's a great pity that a PPF seems to be a fundamental requirement at TTBs in order to prevent "folks tearing them/you apart" (and/or behaving in ways that are fundamentally disrespectful).

[Jax]

yeah...big words Jax...

Usually these words have to go in line with the corresponding experiences ...

That's what's known here in experience and what is transmitted... to others...

[Apech]

Could you add some historical references?

 

 

No because the historical period is something like 3000 BC to now which is after the time I am speaking about. But all traditions point to a pre-historical golden age and so I feel confident in what I am saying.

[Jax]

You also say you practice thogal.

Every teacher I know says that if one practices thogal while resting in rigpa there will be a progression through visions and if there is a progression that is a sign that everything is done right.They also say that the vissions will not develop beyond a certain point if one doesnt have transmission, proper instructions and a good measure of stability in rigpa.

Is that how it happens for you ?

Yes... People read and hear too much... We learn from practice and experimentation with our own body/minds. We then find what works best for us and progress accordingly. Transmission means: correct instructions. I have received all the correct instructions to practice and realize. And then I share what has been realized not more... only what is known and verified here directly and in experience. I am not one for "magical thinking" like so many who drink the cool-aid are. Tibetan tradition is full of fairy tales and useless magical thinking.. You have to roll up your sleeves and do the work and see what's what for yourself.

[Jax]

Best advice is to watch all five videos and do the practices along with the videos and see if what is being said makes sense and may even be liberating. Then we have something real to talk about rather than just unfounded opinions... :-)

[RongzomFan]

You have something of a point I suppose, in that someone could be authorised to teach like Mr. Seagal

 

This is bullshit.

 

Seagal was recognized as a tulku, but never authorized to teach and was never trained as a lama.

[RongzomFan]

I'm very much in agreement with your sentiments here BKA

 

I'd also add that it's a great pity that a PPF seems to be a fundamental requirement at TTBs in order to prevent "folks tearing them/you apart" (and/or behaving in ways that are fundamentally disrespectful).

 

Well you are a fellow Neoadvaitin.

[gatito]

Well you are a fellow Neoadvaitin.

 

QED

[RongzomFan]

Most evident is the decline in the number of practitioners attaining rainbow bodies in contemporary times.

 

Rainbow body shrinking is a sign of NOT completing the path, before death.

 

If you complete the path before death, like Kunzang Dechen Lingpa who spent over a decade in retreat just to get 3/4 of the way, nothing extraordinary will happen to your body.

 

 

tummo,

 

Tummo is not shamanistic. It is from the Indian tantric tradition.

Edited February 4, 2014 by RongzomFan

[gatito]

This is bullshit.

 

Seagal was recognized as a tulku, but never authorized to teach and was never trained as a lama.

 

And QED

[adept]

I would like to thank Jax for sharing these videos which I will watch when I have more free time later.

[asunthatneversets]

Transmission means: correct instructions. I have received all the correct instructions to practice and realize. And then I share what has been realized not more... only what is known and verified here directly and in experience.

 

You teach far more than you have realized.

[C T]

for a bit of levity.... don't turn everything into what's right and who's wrong, such are the ways of those still caught by signs. The earliest indications of having grokked the meaning of the great perfection ~ everything feels bouyant, lively, open, natural, brimming with joyfulness and spontaneity.

 

Things dont have to go according to script all the time. Getting uptight over ultimately insignificant matters is definitely not the hallmark of one who claims to have embraced the essence of this great tradition.

 

Dont be like this character (or be exactly like him, it does not matter in the end)... getting all hot under the collar in the name of Dharma is too silly imo.

 

 

 

 

 

finally, thanks also to Rongzomfan for calling bs on everything (again)!

[Apech]

This is bullshit.

 

Seagal was recognized as a tulku, but never authorized to teach and was never trained as a lama.

 

 

I didn't know this and am relieved to hear it.

 

... but sometimes when you feel under siege and you find the lies hard to kill you have to go out for justice.

[adept]

I didn't know this and am relieved to hear it.

 

... but sometimes when you feel under siege and you find the lies hard to kill you have to go out for justice.

 

[asunthatneversets]

for a bit of levity.... don't turn everything into what's right and who's wrong, such are the ways of those still caught by signs. The earliest indications of having grokked the meaning of the great perfection ~ everything feels bouyant, lively, open, natural, brimming with joyfulness and spontaneity.

 

Things dont have to go according to script all the time. Getting uptight over ultimately insignificant matters is definitely not the hallmark of one who claims to have embraced the essence of this great tradition.

 

Dont be like this character (or be exactly like him, it does not matter in the end)... getting all hot under the collar in the name of Dharma is too silly imo.

 

 

 

 

 

finally, thanks also to Rongzomfan for calling bs on everything (again)!

 

I disagree, scrutinizing and evaluating whether or not a teacher is qualified is an indispensable aspect of these teachings, and can very well be the difference between whether or not realization or liberation occurs.

[C T]

I disagree, scrutinizing and evaluating whether or not a teacher is qualified is an indispensable aspect of these teachings, and can very well be the difference between whether or not realization or liberation occurs.

Sure, feel free to disagree. Will such disagreements set records straight, or merely lead to more doubts arising in people looking in for a peep at the buddha-Drama which seems to be a constant feature here?

 

There is such a thing as skilful means, right?

 

You seem like someone who's been reasonably exposed to Tibetan Buddhism, and presumably have been in the company of eminent teachers from that tradition ~ tell me, how many times have you seen these teachers demonstrate an attitude of arrogance towards those who act disruptively during teachings and retreat workshops? As a matter of great significance, those who are suddenly overcome by emotional outbursts (which happens now and then) actually get to feel more warmth and given more understanding by the teacher.

 

The more stable one's view, the more expansive one's ability to hold others, especially those whose steps are not fully steadied yet.