"You can't handle the TRUTH !"

[chegg]

.

Edited March 14, 2015 by chegg

[idiot_stimpy]

From what I have heard the secret is self protecting.

 

You could scream it out on the roof tops and nobody would care.

[Marblehead]

Truth is for when we are ready for the truth (and mature enough to handle it). Some are never ready.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I have found that people who aren't ready, can use stuff they shouldn't. Also people with crappy ethics can just fine as well.

 

I had asked a student to not teach the stuff to anyone, especially not a certain person (as the spirits had told me to NEVER teach her ever). So of course he went and taught it to this person... *sigh*. All was fine and good until she emailed me from the hospital in the psyche ward.

 

Then there was that guy (fortunately I never taught him and never will) who cursed his roomate for stealing bread out of the fridge...

 

Or even worse, folks who learn a little bit from a tidbit of info made public, then think they are a master and teach others without the experience, practice, wisdom or knowledge, or the other 99.9%, of the system....

[ChiDragon]

Truth is for when we are ready for the truth (and mature enough to handle it). Some are never ready.

hmmmm.....

I do wonder who is ready for this.....!?

[Marblehead]

hmmmm.....

I do wonder who is ready for this.....!?

Hard telling. Mistakes will be made.

[GreytoWhite]

I had asked a student to not teach the stuff to anyone, especially not a certain person (as the spirits had told me to NEVER teach her ever). So of course he went and taught it to this person... *sigh*. All was fine and good until she emailed me from the hospital in the psyche ward.

 

Hey, I called my teacher from the psych ward once. Now though I'm the only one going to visit him in jail. Haha, it's crazy how life turns out sometimes. There are some things that should not be touched, I fully agree. I did something I had read about but wasn't prepared for that landed me in the psych hospital. I wasn't at all sane and went around the place healing people. One of my favorites was the kid I had a three day rap battle with to cure his stutter but my biggest accomplishment was curing my ex-girlfriend's schizophrenia, seizures, and anorexia.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

It would be nice to have the knowledge and ability to be a teacher.

 

To know that one could benefit beings in that way.

 

I don't mean a teacher of esoteric practical spiritual techniques.

 

Well, not to those outside of my inner circle.

 

Hehehe.

 

Still haven't got any actually in my inner circle.

 

But ya never know.

 

One day.

....

Edited January 31, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[chegg]

.

.

Edited March 14, 2015 by chegg

[ChiDragon]

Hard telling. Mistakes will be made.

Do you think, even, a Taoist would make such mistakes most lightly....???

[Zhongyongdaoist]

 

I've been pondering over the idea of whether or not it is ok for one to release certain information to certain individuals and/or the general public.

 

Yes, it is absolutely true that it is both OK and not OK to 'release certain information to certain individuals and/or the general public.'

 

Knowing to whom and when is what Wisdom is all about. Get it first and the details are easy to deal with. Plato says as much in his dialogue Euthedemos. Few people listened to him then or now. Too bad we would all be better off if more people did.

 

Do people need to be properly prepared/trained to handle the various relative truths ? Does the spirit only let one receive the information that one is ready to handle ?

 

Do people need to be properly prepared/trained to handle the various relative truths ?

 

Absolutely, they also need to be properly trained to handle any type of truth, not just relative truths.

 

Does the spirit only let one receive the information that one is ready to handle ?

 

Don't be silly. The truth goes anywhere it can. It is like a seed, but how it grows depends on the soil that it finds. This is what the whole business of preparation is all about. That's where Wisdom comes in. Did I mention Wisdom before?

 

The following posts are about two types of truth with some serious and interesting overlapping:

 

From what I have heard the secret is self protecting.

 

You could scream it out on the roof tops and nobody would care.

 

The above is the 'mystical' type of truth. Below is the 'magical' type of truth.

 

I have found that people who aren't ready, can use stuff they shouldn't. Also people with crappy ethics can just fine as well.

 

I had asked a student to not teach the stuff to anyone, especially not a certain person (as the spirits had told me to NEVER teach her ever). So of course he went and taught it to this person... *sigh*. All was fine and good until she emailed me from the hospital in the psyche ward.

 

Then there was that guy (fortunately I never taught him and never will) who cursed his roomate for stealing bread out of the fridge...

 

Or even worse, folks who learn a little bit from a tidbit of info made public, then think they are a master and teach others without the experience, practice, wisdom or knowledge, or the other 99.9%, of the system....

 

It was the sheer idiocy of the vast majority of students of magic that made the biggest contribution to my decision to stop teaching magic. Baquakicksass' statements are all too typical. These things can harm both oneself and other people. Most people studying 'magic' don't really believe in it, they just hope that it exists, getting them to take these things seriously is well nigh impossible. Then there are the 'Power Freaks' . . . need I say more about them?

 

Wisdom helps you to discriminate between these types and guides you with how to deal with them. Did I mention Wisdom yet?

 

The mystical type of truth is simply so far outside of most peoples belief systems that, yes it can be yelled from any place and no one is going to understand it, who is not prepared to do so. It is not so much self protecting, as just too obscure. May as well try to tell dwellers in tropical countries about snow (I took this example from the musical 'The King and I', can't find a nifty YouTube clip though.). They just don't get it. Not likely too either, at least not without the right preparation. That's where Wisdom comes in. Have I mentioned Wisdom yet?

 

I keep hearing of cases where people are getting into all sorts of trouble - usually by not being able to handle the forces/energies. Perhaps one has to stumble a few times before they catch on - i.e., a self regulating process?

 

Would you teach a 5 year old child to manufacture things that can go boom ? Self regulation would fail in some cases I guess.

 

Perhaps one has to stumble a few times before they catch on - i.e., a self regulating process?

 

Hopefully they don't break their leg, or knock someone else over in the process.

 

Would you teach a 5 year old child to manufacture things that can go boom ?

 

You don't teach them to play with matches either, but the nasty little brats will take them when you are not looking and get into all sorts of mischief, won't they?

 

Wisdom would help with raising children. It would also help with the question of whom to teach an what to teach them and when. Have I mentioned the importance of Wisdom yet?

 

Funny thing about Wisdom, everyone already thinks they are the wisest person in the world, so you can't interest them in it. Oh well.

[dawei]

Yes to everything above... and everything missed...

 

Truth is not what some people can handle, want, or can process.

 

But there are some who like to shove it down others throats and will pump your stomach so as to force digestion...

 

Here is the bottom line...

 

There is really no truth except what we make of it... Thus, it is simply constructed or personal or subjective.... It really doesn't matter on a certain level...

[Nungali]

After 380 posts, best I keep my mouth shut

Only against the truth

 

But seriously, to give my answer to your OP questions. Someone (whose name escapes me) wrote about the 4 psychological truths (for a healthy balanced psyche) and 'With holding truth' was one of them.

 

Ummm ... remembering ??? '1. Stick to reality - Review the Internal Map. 2. Delay Gratification - Sublimation of Desire. 3. Withholding Truth . 4. Combine and balance the above 3.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Nungali

[9th]

From what I have heard the secret is self protecting.

 

You could scream it out on the roof tops and nobody would care.

 

Basically this, but thats the kind of secret that would solve all the problems - not get you into more of them. Thats why its self-protecting... because nobody wants to know that kind of secret. People actually want more problems, believe it or not. They want drama, division, tension, release, dynamics, magnetism... etc. Its the same "secret" thats right in front of everyones face all the time, just ignored in favor of other concerns.

 

[dee]

-

Edited February 15, 2014 by dee

[9th]

Would you teach a 5 year old child to manufacture things that can go boom ? Self regulation would fail in some cases I guess.

 

Yeh, you've got the right idea. And in some cases, its more like handing a loaded gun to a 5 year old child. Some kinds of knowledge are not just inert data. It depends on the specifics. There may be a great deal of energy invested in certain methods. And raw energy doesnt discriminate.. its equal opportunity, just like a gun. Its a tool. The usage depends on the person in question.

 

http://youtu.be/AoFUL6VpYfw

[Marblehead]

Thanks everyone for your posts.

 

I recall someone mentioning that there is a lot of karma generated for the person who releases such information. (or any information for that matter). edit:The degree of Karma obviously depends on the effect it has on the receivers.

 

After 380 posts, best I keep my mouth shut

 

 

Blessings of Silence

:wub: :wub: :wub:

You keep on keeping on. I'm enjoying your posts. (Most of them. Hehehe.)

[Marblehead]

Do you think, even, a Taoist would make such mistakes most lightly....???

A grand question. I have made more than my share of mistakes. But then, I was still learning. I still an learning; still making mistakes, but not as many or as often.

 

It all depends on one's development. The more "wu wei" we become the fewer mistakes we will make. I am sure of this.

 

And I think that the more "wu wei" we become the easier it will be for us to handle the truth.

[Stosh]

That which is true ..just is.

that which isnt is illusion.

Not everyone is ready for having the feet kicked

from underneath their ediface of illusory constructs.

Generally they fight it anyway on their own behalf.

You just cannot force people to actually understand anything.

If you prefer to lie .. out of concern for repercussions to the truth,

Who is it that will tell the truth? the wrong?j

Yes, one is responsible for what they say and do.

.by virtue of being the only ones with control of what they say and do.

 

and this is alike for both student and teacher.

 

 

So the ill that might befall is the consequence of those that create it .

.not those who told the truth.

Just be sure it the truth.

Like ,,BOY i hate this POS samsung android phone!!

Edited February 1, 2014 by Stosh

[nestentrie]

17

In the highest antiquity, (the people) did not know that there

were (their rulers). In the next age they loved them and praised

them. In the next they feared them; in the next they despised them.

Thus it was that when faith (in the Tao) was deficient (in the rulers)

a want of faith in them ensued (in the people).

 

How irresolute did those (earliest rulers) appear, showing (by

their reticence) the importance which they set upon their words!

Their work was done and their undertakings were successful, while the

people all said, 'We are as we are, of ourselves!'

 

 

Depends what 'age' you want to be in I suppose, and what kind of economy with the truth you want to maintain.

 

Questions of honesty invariably involve danger of some kind; physical danger, danger of losing face and/or reputation, and the more general disappointments that can arise by having two different lengths of string. So which are we trying to economise and make provision for?

 

I won't spit out a list trying to cover every base the OP might be worried about but I will try to address one thing that has me concerned by reading over the entire thread; trying to account for all the possible mishaps another may encounter while exercising skill veers dangerously close to condescension. Condescension is self-sycophancy, the grounds for complacency.

 

I'll stop here. I don't want to be the preachy hypocrite! So I'll just reiterate: 'How irresolute did those (earliest rulers appear, showing by their reticence) the importance which they set upon their words!'

[chegg]

Questions of honesty invariably involve danger of some kind; physical danger, danger of losing face and/or reputation, and the more general disappointments that can arise by having two different lengths of string. So which are we trying to economise and make provision for?

 

 

This reminds me that there is also a danger of providing only partial 'truths'.

 

 

Dude 1: "Hey dude, remember that new-fangled meditation technique I gave you all those years ago ? How did it pan out ?"

 

Dude 2: "It worked like a charm !. I eventually found God !.........but I also lost my Job, I lost my family, I lost all my possessions, I lost my arms and legs due to immune system failure and I ended up in a psych ward for 20 years."

 

Dude 1: "Errrr....sorry about that dude, I forgot to mention that there are a few side-effects"

 

 

 

Blessings of the whole truth

:wub: :wub: :wub:

Edited February 1, 2014 by chegg

[nestentrie]

Chegg,

 

I suppose it's on the strength of your conviction that these things must rest. Citing the TTC verse again, do you want the truth you offer to be loved, treated with healthy respect, or ignored?

 

Having it ignored is easy, and the easiest way to ensure it's ignored is to not bring it up in the first place. I'm not sure you're in this camp though as you seem to want to have the things you know shared around.

 

To have it treated with respect: that's harder (and i think your whole area of concern). I think the main issue here is not so much honesty as good faith. Would you have it that people easily and pliantly agree with you, accept your suggestion and agree with your conclusions without further consideration? Or would you have it that they come into it with respect of their own, having all the implications weighing heavier on them?

 

The former, on the part of your initiate, isn't good faith; it's opportunism. They're taking the slack like a free lunch thinking gifts will shower upon them. You have to question their wisdom.

 

So it again comes to the strength of your conviction. How much do you love the truth you want to share and is that love compromising your objectivity? Can you extend that love to a healthy respect? Can you, with economy allow others to be liberal with the truth you love? That's good faith on your part.

 

So I think my closing thought would be, ignore those who would ignore you and your truth. Engage with good faith those who engage you (with good faith).

[3bob]

the higher one goes (so to speak) the better and stronger their foundation in the very first level must be.

[chegg]

Chegg,

 

I suppose it's on the strength of your conviction that these things must rest. Citing the TTC verse again, do you want the truth you offer to be loved, treated with healthy respect, or ignored?

 

Having it ignored is easy, and the easiest way to ensure it's ignored is to not bring it up in the first place. I'm not sure you're in this camp though as you seem to want to have the things you know shared around.

 

To have it treated with respect: that's harder (and i think your whole area of concern). I think the main issue here is not so much honesty as good faith. Would you have it that people easily and pliantly agree with you, accept your suggestion and agree with your conclusions without further consideration? Or would you have it that they come into it with respect of their own, having all the implications weighing heavier on them?

 

The former, on the part of your initiate, isn't good faith; it's opportunism. They're taking the slack like a free lunch thinking gifts will shower upon them. You have to question their wisdom.

 

So it again comes to the strength of your conviction. How much do you love the truth you want to share and is that love compromising your objectivity? Can you extend that love to a healthy respect? Can you, with economy allow others to be liberal with the truth you love? That's good faith on your part.

 

So I think my closing thought would be, ignore those who would ignore you and your truth. Engage with good faith those who engage you (with good faith).

 

I would agree with this.

 

I would also add that I personally tend to tell different people different 'truths' depending on their level of understanding and whether I think it would help them or not. (the tao bummers are a little exempt from this - edit: only because I'm talking with a group of people )

 

 

 

 

Bless you nestentrie

:wub: :wub: :wub:

Edited February 2, 2014 by chegg

[Nungali]

the higher one goes (so to speak) the better and stronger their foundation in the very first level must be.

 

 

 

OOOOPS!

 

 

" Learn first — Oh thou who aspirest unto our ancient Order! — that Equilibrium is the basis of the Work. If thou thyself hast not a sure foundation, whereon wilt thou stand to direct the forces of Nature? "

 

http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib30.html

Edited February 2, 2014 by Nungali