BaguaKicksAss Posted February 2, 2014 Well some humans are more enlightened than other humans aren't they, and as far as I know, which isn't far, the dragons I've been exposed to are ascended masters, or as we say in Taoism, Immortals. So yes, I think the answer to your question is a resounding yes. There is much to learn about karma, isn't there? Are some immortals nasty? another yes resounds through the auditorium. ... or ... is it possible for a person to become immortal if they are nasty? maybe not. I beleive it is very possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted February 2, 2014 I beleive it is very possible. That would be a good subject for a discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted February 2, 2014 From various descriptions that one might come across one may attain an "immortal" state in the astral/light realms and surely that has its own rewards, (so to speak) yet I'd say such is not enough for "enlightenment"... for only no-thing is enough. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) If in a previous life I was a wizard or a dragon Id consider my progress retrograde. Sometimes the idea of progress is stupid, isn't it? Songstan? What I was before and what I will be, what I am now, doesn't really matter; but I find myself student of wizard so I have that part covered, baby wizard for you Marbles. The dragons I'm still learning about, and there's no hurry to learn in any case, but evidently some people can have guardians / spirit guides who are dragons, a lot like in the Movie Mulan, except these dragons aren't slapstick comedians, they look like dinosaurs, with eyes that speak of wisdom, intelligence, and ruthlessness; they are telepathic, and have big teeth. My teacher, who knows of such things, told me mine was an immortal. No biggie really, but interesting to me lately, I may or may not keep you posted. edited to add slapstick. Edited February 3, 2014 by Starjumper 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pickup Posted February 5, 2014 I have been changing for months since around august time. I started to become ultra confident. for what ever reason only want to do good and help people who need it and advise people who do wrong to be better. I no long desire money or the need for people to like me, although people seem drawn to me. I started feeling a spiritual presence around me a few weeks ago so decided to go to a spiritual group last week. At which i was able to give a reading for somebody with out ever practicing or beleaving in that sort of thing. As i was leaving i lady in charge of the group said that she could see my spiritual guide. I knew i had a presence around me and i thought it was my grandfather but she saw Daode Tianzun. At home i began to communicate with my guide and he lead me to laozi and the more i read the more i realised i have always been this way deep down. Its been a very unusual and deeply satisfying few months. I feel i have been waiting all my life to have my eyes opened. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted February 6, 2014 Stosh.... Thank you very much for your kind words.....!!! Enlightenment is not a real thing, a real situation nor anything described by ancient scholars but outside the realm of everyday experience. It is an experience which not an ordinary person can be experienced or comprehended. Enlightenment is to comprehend something that is one of a kind which others are difficult to grasp. It is not something that can be described with words. However, if it was described by words, then it requires a certain mentality by grokking its quale to extract the philosophical concepts not by guessing nor assumption. It must be followed certain guide lines, collectively, from the knowledgeable scholars of the past and present to reach an intuitive conclusion with logical reasoning. The enlightened conclusion has to be stand alone which cannot be superseded by other philosophical thoughts. badass...although you need to work on your grammar! pay attention to your words - to reach the pinnacle, one must persevere perfectly! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) badass...although you need to work on your grammar! pay attention to your words - to reach the pinnacle, one must persevere perfectly! hehehehehe..... May I learn the grammar from you or incomplete sentences...??? Edited February 6, 2014 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted February 6, 2014 hehehehehe..... May I learn the grammar from you or incomplete sentences...??? Shall I become your writing teacher? hmmm...? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted February 6, 2014 Shall I become your writing teacher? hmmm...? Yes, please. Thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
81chapters Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Had no interest in Taoism nor anything Chinese nor any significant interest in martial arts. I was studying a system of Christian mysticism that focused on the omnipotence and omnipresence of God in meditation for about 10+ years, and the founder of it said in a little sentence buried away in one of his books that you cannot reach the height of oneness with God without a real master. It stuck out to me because it seemed so opposite to what the guy taught. I didn't believe in "masters", but I had had such great awakening from this author that I put out into the universe: "Okay if I need a master, I'm willing to have one." forgot about it..... About a year later got blackmailed by my now ex-boyfriend to go to Taichi classes. Thought it would be a great way to get out of the house and away from the kids, maybe get a little exercise. Besides, this Liao guy seemed nice anyway.... about a year or so in I realized where I was and remembered the "need a master" thing and went "Damn!" Edited February 6, 2014 by 81chapters 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted February 6, 2014 A true Taoist is to find the true self by oneself rather than by others. The principles are written everywhere but you just need to find and sort them out and follow them. This is exactly what I firmly believed: I read dozens of books, spent time in retreat on the mountains, studied the best available translations of the I-Ching and Dao De Ching ... ...then, one day I met a true daoist and I realized that "my daoism" was just my artificial creation. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) This is exactly what I firmly believed: I read dozens of books, spent time in retreat on the mountains, studied the best available translations of the I-Ching and Dao De Ching ... ...then, one day I met a true daoist and I realized that "my daoism" was just my artificial creation. Well, you might not have any basis to compare the available translations and sort out the principles. However, your best available translations might not be the best translations to transpose the true principles. How do you know that a true Taoist is a true one without being one yourself? Edited February 6, 2014 by ChiDragon 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted February 6, 2014 How do you know that a true Taoist is a true one without being one yourself? Chinese Taoist Association http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Taoist_Association 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted February 6, 2014 ...then, one day I met a true daoist and I realized that "my daoism" was just my artificial creation. Each Taoist has a set of basic principles. It depends which and how far the practices are to be carried out. It seems to me that you do have a set of principles(artificial creation). You did make a comparison to the principles of the Chinese Taoist Association and discovered that your original principles are not what you want. Therefore, you had decided not to follow your own principles but followed the new ones instead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 6, 2014 hehehehehe..... May I learn the grammar from you or incomplete sentences...??? You could learn from me but you would have to get a spell checker as I make lots of typos. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kajenx Posted February 6, 2014 Stosh.... Thank you very much for your kind words.....!!! Enlightenment is not a real thing, a real situation nor anything described by ancient scholars but outside the realm of everyday experience. It is an experience which not an ordinary person can be experienced or comprehended. Enlightenment is to comprehend something that is one of a kind which others are difficult to grasp. It is not something that can be described with words. However, if it was described by words, then it requires a certain mentality by grokking its quale to extract the philosophical concepts not by guessing nor assumption. It must be followed certain guide lines, collectively, from the knowledgeable scholars of the past and present to reach an intuitive conclusion with logical reasoning. The enlightened conclusion has to be stand alone which cannot be superseded by other philosophical thoughts. Well that doesn't sound so hard! XD 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 6, 2014 This is exactly what I firmly believed: I read dozens of books, spent time in retreat on the mountains, studied the best available translations of the I-Ching and Dao De Ching ... ...then, one day I met a true daoist and I realized that "my daoism" was just my artificial creation. The thing about doing it on our own is that we must be brutally honest with ourself. Many people can't handle that (ego gets in the way). 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted February 6, 2014 Each Taoist has a set of basic principles. It depends which and how far the practices are to be carried out. It seems to me that you do have a set of principles(artificial creation). You did make a comparison to the principles of the Chinese Taoist Association and discovered that your original principles are not what you want. Therefore, you had decided not to follow your own principles but followed the new ones instead. Not that far. I do not have basic principles separate from absolute non-resistence 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adept Posted February 6, 2014 Chinese Taoist Association http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Taoist_Association Even if this a legitimate organization, I have my doubts. This is 'allowed' to operate by the same government that practically erased the teachings of the Way during the revolution and subsequent communist regimes. To me, the Dao is more akin to living naturally, using our own innate essence, insight and virtue, and to be free from hierarchies, organizations, associations and suchlike. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harmonious Emptiness Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) - Edited February 6, 2014 by Harmonious Emptiness 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted February 6, 2014 This is exactly what I firmly believed: I read dozens of books, spent time in retreat on the mountains, studied the best available translations of the I-Ching and Dao De Ching ... ...then, one day I met a true daoist and I realized that "my daoism" was just my artificial creation. How did you differentiate between the "true Daoist" and anybody else you came across...at retreats in the mountains etc? What did he teach you that led you to realise this "artificial creation"? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted February 6, 2014 How did you differentiate between the "true Daoist" and anybody else you came across...at retreats in the mountains etc? What did he teach you that led you to realise this "artificial creation"? Nothing special. He just pointed out that he learned such and such things in a recognized daoist lineage that he belongs to... and since I studied on a couple of translated book, my understanding of the real thing isn't something substantial. What I think should be daoist or not is irrelevant since this comes from my "view" and not from the "view" of the ancients. The teachings of the ancients are preserved in schools and lineages, not in best seller books. :-( 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted February 6, 2014 Nothing special. He just pointed out that he learned such and such things in a recognized daoist lineage that he belongs to... and since I studied on a couple of translated book, my understanding of the real thing isn't something substantial. What I think should be daoist or not is irrelevant since this comes from my "view" and not from the "view" of the ancients. The teachings of the ancients are preserved in schools and lineages, not in best seller books. :-( That the initial intents and meanings have been preserved , by those who feel that they have got it right ,, is contradicted by the multitude of disagreements. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted February 6, 2014 Well that doesn't sound so hard! XD However, the enlightenment has to be working out perfectly for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted February 7, 2014 That the initial intents and meanings have been preserved , by those who feel that they have got it right ,, is contradicted by the multitude of disagreements. I'm not aware of this multitude of disagreements. Maybe is it something kept hidden ? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
