Tibetan Yoga

[GrandTrinity]

Anyon familiar with it? My parents friend's friend runs a Nyingma retreat center in Caly, affiliated with the first Nyingma lama in the West and publishing companies etc. I am thinking of ordering a book on Tibetan Yoga by him, aka Kum Nye. I wanted to see if anyone here is familiar with this stuff and your opinions?

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/184483404...d=11AD5W6YLQ3AF

 

Peace,

 

Jake

 

P.S. How was your 777 day yesterday? Mines was crazy...

[Taomeow]

Anyon familiar with it? My parents friend's friend runs a Nyingma retreat center in Caly, affiliated with the first Nyingma lama in the West and publishing companies etc. I am thinking of ordering a book on Tibetan Yoga by him, aka Kum Nye. I wanted to see if anyone here is familiar with this stuff and your opinions?

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/184483404...d=11AD5W6YLQ3AF

 

Peace,

 

Jake

 

P.S. How was your 777 day yesterday? Mines was crazy...

 

 

I saw a documentary about Tibetan yogi hermits with rare footage of a monk demonstrating some secret techniques apparently never seen before by outsiders. Indeed, I'd never seen anything like that, and had to reconsider what "yoga" is. We are used to those static slow versions whose effects "implode" -- well, the monk was doing the opposite. His routine was a rapid succession of explosive fajin-like moves executed from the lotus pose, accompanied by loud and weird sounds and culminating in his body being propelled a few feet upward and then forcefully slamming down with a mighty thud, as though his body becomes first weightless and then much heavier than normal. Yin-yang... Those up and down jumps on his butt had an inhuman, I'd even say non-mammal quality, I've never seen anything move like that except some of those jumping beetles that occasionally get into the house in summertime and propel themselves in random directions with a loud clicking sound, bouncing off the walls and the ceiling like a little rocket. The monk's whole body seemed to make a similar snapping sound of a suddenly released tight spiral, and then hit the floor like a cannonball. He also slapped his arms and torso, pummeling his whole body mightily -- reminded me of the routine my taiji teacher has us do before and after class, just slapping away ("not to hurt yourself but to keep your body awake"). Some of the moves the monk made definitely had high-level fajin features -- they were too fast to even understand what they were. Far out.

[三江源]

Someone here linked to a video of someone doing this stuff, on youtube. Very fast, somewhat surreal!

 

I'm sorry I cant recall who posted the link/what thread it was in, but if you do a youtube search, you may be lucky and find it.

[sean]

Via YouTube

 

"Never seen before yoga from tibet. Seems to be a method to expel trapped gases in stomach and to speed up excretion of waste in the intestines. "

 

KG6w036k8u4

[zenbrook]

Just for the record, this video demonstrates trulkhor as opposed to kumnye exercises. The difference between them is vast, as they serve very different aims. There's been a reference to the Six Yogas of Naropa elsewhere on the site recently - these trulkhor exercises are preparatory exercises associated with the practice of tummo, one of the six.

 

Although, like kumnye, they are concerned with manipulating chi (lung in Tibetan), the principles underlying both practices are very different and they shouldn't be confused - it should also be borne in mind that there are different forms of kumnye with equally different functions.

 

I don't think there's much to be gained from flirting with either practice - it's kind of an all or nothing deal if you're a ) not going to waste your time or b ) not going to seriously hurt yourself.

 

But just my opinion

 

Peace,

ZenB

[GrandTrinity]

So Zenbrook, drop some more Tibetan knowledge on us? What is it about Nyimgma people? It seems they are connected with the secret yogas a lot?

[zenbrook]

So Zenbrook, drop some more Tibetan knowledge on us? What is it about Nyimgma people? It seems they are connected with the secret yogas a lot?

I don't know about 'drop some knowledge' - drop myself in it, more like!

 

You're right about the Nyingmapa - the 'ancient ones' - they do have a connection with 'secret yogas', though arguably no more so than the other schools. More to the point is the origin of the yogas themselves - when the newer so-called 'reformed' schools of Tibetan Buddhism arose, everything/one left over went on to become a school in itself - the Nyingmapa. It thus comprises several distinct lineages that all trace their origins back to the Indian master Padmasambhava (Sanskrit for 'lotus-born'; Tib. Guru Rinpoche, 'precious teacher'), the legendary founder of Tibetan Buddhism. Historicaly, Nyingmapa are categorised into Red Sangha and White Sangha. Red Sangha denotes a celibate, monastic practitioner; whereas White Sangha denotes liberation or abstention from such vows. The Nyingmapa are often referred to as the 'school of the ancient translations' because they are founded on the first translations of Buddhist scriptures from Sanskrit into Tibetan, in the eighth century.

 

To cut an awfully long story short - the Nyingmapa canon contains a large corpus of tantric teachings, including the Dzogchen, or 'Great Perfection' teachings. Included are many different forms of yoga, which serve different purposes. Most are secret in the sense of self-secret - without the requisite level of understanding, the practices make no sense. Others are secret because they can cause genuine harm to the psycho-physical being. Kumnye as Tharthang Tulku teaches it is not terribly problematic - trulkhor as per the video can certainly be.

 

I guess the important point to make is that each yoga serves a precise principle and function. Trulkhor, for example (at least as per the video), is preparatory practice for the actual practice of tummo. To practice trulkhor for any other reason is vaguely meaningless. To practice tummo is in itself part of a greater whole in terms of spiritual means and aims. I'm not sure there's anything to be gained from messing with either without being a Buddhist follower of the Tibetan tantras.

 

I was quite surprised the trulkhor was made public like that. I guess that's the way of things now - I don't think it's particularly useful, but maybe it'll inspire someone to be a little kinder or more aware.

 

Then again, probably not

 

Ultimately all these yogas (at least in the tantric tradition) serve the purpose of generating some kind of 'psycho-physical effect' that then becomes the focus for meditation - the crux of the practice. Take away that crux and it's all so much tantric fantasy.

 

Makes for good TV though

 

Peace,

ZenB

[KoHsuan]

Anybody knows a book that has good description of 6 trulkhor exercises?

 

"Tsongkhapa's Six Yogas of Naropa" by Glenn H. Mullin is probably the best one i have found but it doesn't really dwell on inner work of the practise.. and without it .. we can't get most of it...

 

Some schools even claim that trulkhor exercises are not absolutely indispensable for inner heat yoga.

 

 

Namaste

Edited July 19, 2007 by KoHsuan

[Pero]

Anybody knows a book that has good description of 6 trulkhor exercises?

 

"Tsongkhapa's Six Yogas of Naropa" by Glenn H. Mullin is probably the best one i have found but it doesn't really dwell on inner work of the practise.. and without it .. we can't get most of it...

 

Some schools even claim that trulkhor exercises are not absolutely indispensable for inner heat yoga.

Namaste

 

I don`t 6 yogas are 6 trulkhor exercises. They are completion stage practices in tantra. In any case, teacher is needed for transmission. Maybe you could have some effect on your own, I don`t know.

 

edit: actually, I guess they could be called trulkhor too.

Edited July 19, 2007 by Pero

[zenbrook]

Anybody knows a book that has good description of 6 trulkhor exercises?

Although it was quite some time ago, I remember a book by Lama Yeshe - the Bliss of Inner Fire - which detailed the practice of tummo. I can't for the life of me remember much else about it, but I seem to recall a chapter on trulkhor - though I'm pretty sure it wouldn't contain actual instructions, for, as Pero has commented (and YouTube videos notwithstanding!), you require transmission from a teacher in order for the practice to be effective. Lama Yeshe was informative and fun to read, however.

 

Some schools even claim that trulkhor exercises are not absolutely indispensable for inner heat yoga.

Probably not absolutely indispensable but I would hazard about as indispensable short of absolute as it's possible to be

 

Peace,

ZenB

[Pero]

Although it was quite some time ago, I remember a book by Lama Yeshe - the Bliss of Inner Fire - which detailed the practice of tummo. I can't for the life of me remember much else about it, but I seem to recall a chapter on trulkhor - though I'm pretty sure it wouldn't contain actual instructions, for, as Pero has commented (and YouTube videos notwithstanding!), you require transmission from a teacher in order for the practice to be effective. Lama Yeshe was informative and fun to read, however.

 

I have this book. It has instructions.

But see, the thing is, it`s much much better if someone explains in person. Because of the breathing. It involves kumbhaka and you can hurt yourself with incorrect practice.

[zenbrook]

I have this book. It has instructions.

But see, the thing is, it`s much much better if someone explains in person. Because of the breathing. It involves kumbhaka and you can hurt yourself with incorrect practice.

I agree, Pero.

 

I'm no great fan of the closed fist approach to teaching inherent in Vajrayana, but there are genuine dangers associated with some of the practices - kumbhaka is one of them - and I regret the increasing shallowness (as I see it) of the tradition that is resulting from the piecemeal selling off of the inner tantras.

 

Which is somewhat contradictory, I know. But that's another story

 

Peace,

ZenB