Following Desire

[deci belle]

This is an excerpt from a recent PM…

 

On the topic of fetish, you've mentioned desire in some of your posts and following it but not all the way. What did you mean by that?

 

Yes. Following desires without stepping over the line?

 

Well, an openness and sincere vulnerability to a genuinely human awareness of natural subtleties that enter our lives is to be cultivated in order to expand our sphere of practice that enables us to penetrate the world constituting the real on the nonpsychological level.

 

That's not another level~ it is just what is, as it is for ordinary people, but without our having to step over the line in terms of following our unique relationships and endeavors to the extreme of creating future karmic cycles on account of our selfish desires. Living totally committed to presence is just this not stepping over the line.

 

There is absolutely no reason to ever deny one's desire. Desire is real. But habitually seeking and satisfying the endless streams of habitually self-reflective stimulous-desires is unreal.

 

It is not a matter of being vulnerable for a reason, though. Being vulnerable is a way of saying, among other things, that one is still and empty and satisfied with the way things are without thinking up ideas for what would be, could be, should be just to keep up the façade of not being (or even finding out) who one really is right now. Just being really naked to the world, without any momentum or habit energy to hide behind is a way of understanding the meaning of being truly vulnerable.

 

Recognizing desire is in seeing potential. Not stepping over the line is in not using it. This is the secret to absorbing potential.

 

Alchemic practice takes up desire and potential, vitality and real knowledge, lead and water, yang and advancing as the aspect of following in some capacity in terms of describing the firing process at various levels.

 

Yin, in this scenario, is essential nature which has the function of beckoning knowledge. Yin is solitary seeing that no one else sees. Seeing is wordless seeing. True seeing is seeing the entirety of creation as a dark void. Occasionally, a point of light is discerned in dimness. Seeing a point of light within the dim void of creation is recognizing the real. Desire is real, but only in not using it does it turn into elixir. This is entry into the inconceivable. It is everyday and it is natural, but there is nothing ordinary about it in the sense that ordinary people do not see.

 

Reality already is. That's why taoist tradition calls such actualized people who see, real humans. This is because real humans see and partake of the real which is accomplished by abiding in the midst of the delusion of temporal existence without construing karmic energy in the three times.

 

All people have enlightened mind as the essence of awareness. The only reason for self-refinement is that the runaway mentality must be reined in enough to trick it into forgetting to think about… anything anymore (out of pure habit based on existential fear). Moreover, enlightening being has no reason to think itself into being as a virtual running sore of ideas for kinetic future being out of sheer habit. It is a total waste of energy turning which only changes the Unborn into death itself.

 

Enlightening being is dedicated to now, so there is no future. Other than adapting to circumstance as is— enlightening being is actually (were it known for what it is), expressing nonbeing in the midst of being. This is the day-job of enlightening beings (for those of you who have ever wondered). This is because Reality as is, is just this way, and no one knows why. This is following the Tao. What else could be?

 

To talk about it in terms of the absolute would be nonsense, and to describe it in terms of the created would be impossible. So we just effectively adapt impersonally to circumstances openly and sincerely as they evolve without creating karmic bonds by following our desires without stepping over the line.

 

Alchemically speaking, following desire is advancing the fire. Advancing the fire is like accepting the challenge to audition the potential of a new cycle which is preceded and entered into by silent illumination in the midst of ordinary situations. It is the fire of silent illumination which is advanced because before the moment it is seen, there is no fire. Once it is seen, it is then advanced. It is wordless knowledge that one endeavors to prove in an actual situation without knowing the twists and turns the situation will inevitably engender.

 

One advances the fire because it is the time to do so. When it is time to stop, one stops. In the same way, one follows desire when it arises. When one sees the line, one then stops advancing the fire. Advancing and withdrawing, one subtly follows the process, carefully operating the furnace of creation and cauldron containing the medicines to be refined.

 

In accepting the potential of a new cycle, we go along with it to see what it really is without projecting our habitual psychological patterns onto the situation engendered by the volatile real potential inherent in the newly arisen cycle of possibility fueled by karmic energy.

 

Karmic energy is real energy mixed up with polluted (created) energy. Alchemy is recognizing the real in the midst of the false and absorbing the real by refining out the false by not acting on the false. This is also the same as following desires without going over the line.

 

If you want potential, you already have it (are it). Just don't act on it unless you are absolutely sure. The secret is that the world is not separate from the individual. This is the reality behind oneself being potential. In not acting on potential, one gathers (retains) the medicines to refine them in the immaterial center of one's being that has no location, which is sealing the elixir away in the empty vessel, void of intellectualism. Not letting so much as a spark leak out. It is all a matter of seeing the ordinary as potential. Why? Because that's what it really is. Treat it as such and you can become a wizard.

 

Somehow, in the course of one's affair with Power, one gives the world what it wants (following desire), without losing one's self (by acting on potential in such a way as to perfectly match creation). The word match has a very special connotation. That is all I can say about it.

 

Alchemic tradition calls this subtlety stealing potential. It is really like this. The imagery of going into the dragon's or tiger's lair and stealing the jewel or pearl comes from the ancient tradition of wizardry. Immortals, wizards, buddhas and enlightening beings are all getting away with their lives, over and over and over in the course of endless transformations. The terms are based on the reality. It is a stupendous secret. This is the development and activation of real knowledge.

 

Ordinary people don't know this, nor is it necessarily desirable that they do. So those with the aspiration to discover who they really are, operate on the level of ordinary people. That is, they accept their enlightening function exactly as a ordinary person in the midst of ordinary people would do, because ultimately, all people are the same, as they all function by virtue of MInd, which is essentially enlightened.

 

Wizards recognize the light clothed as it is as desire, and follow it in reverse. Worldlings follow desires as the light of their lives in the normal course of creation. One gains immortality by endless transformations in the course of events and the other accedes to endless cycles of birth and death, in this life, not to mention the next.

 

 

 

 

 

ed note: add "you can" in 18th paragraph; add " over and over and over in the course of endless transformations" in the 20th paragraph

Edited February 4, 2014 by deci belle

[dawei]

IMO, Deci's Bell rings NOT about achieving and striving and practicing and rehearshing... it is NOT about 'what one doesn't yet have'...

 

She rings my Bell because she talks of 'what one has always had'... no rehearsal needed. No direct striving or sweat.

 

Deep within there lurks a gateway which exposes a potential, a pregnant void without rehearsal yet action itself.

 

In the physical realm, we may find a bevy of reasons to strive, rehearse, and practice... but I don't think we are talking purely about the physical self as that would completely miss the point of all her posts.

[deci belle]

dawei said:

In the physical realm, we may find a bevy of reasons to strive, rehearse, and practice... but I don't think we are talking purely about the physical self as that would completely miss the point of all her posts.

 

Even in the physical realm, I do not rehearse. My posts are all impromptu. The OP was an immediate response to a request.

 

When I started climbing rock and ice, there were always the uber-ambitious high-achievers rehearsing the hardest, steepest, thinnest routes they could put under a top-rope. We called it rehearsing, hang-dogging …cheating.

 

Even the famous Stonemasters from southern California, whose skill, innovation and sheer boldness of attitude that spread across the globe and changed the way people climb, didn't even venture onto the local granite California crags until they had already reached the then higher technical difficulties by rehearsing on top-roped boulders and routes first.

 

Their level of proficiency then would have been rated about 5.10 in difficulty. I started climbing rock and ice and quickly advanced to about 5.2, then perhaps 5.6.

 

It took me 10 years to lead 5.10 by just climbing and making everything I did a real adventure on its terms without construing anything.

 

Adventure and true commitment don't require any difficulty, only the unknown. If you rehearse, you cannot experience the rich and variable situations that only exist at lower levels. If you don't take your time and learn what is presented naturally, how will you be able to apply it in extreme situations? The rush or "high" of moving gracefully under pressure is equal at all levels. Why be driven to cheat yourself of true thusness that exists by virtue of your having a body? It's not the situation, but how you see it …how you appreciate it. How do you show your appreciation of the spontaneous incipience of tao if you have never known it for rushing to prepare for the next perceived ego-challenge? The real challenge is to be exactly where you are right now (even if that be sheer boredom) and move or not according to conditions that only continually change.

 

Today, the vast majority of the real Stonemasters and their ilk who are still climbing, as I do, don't climb at the highest levels of difficulty or risk. I still climb at about 5.10.

 

The point of addressing this is to stress that enlightening being IS off-the-cuff. NO REHEARSING.

 

Furthermore, I do not encourage or welcome Marvel's or Songtsan's off-topic rambling on my threads. Songtsan has absolutely NO INTEREST in learning. And that, sadly, is a fact.

[yabyum24]

The real challenge is to be exactly where you are right now (even if that be sheer boredom) and move or not according to conditions that only continually change.

Perfect.

 

So many good points mentioned on this thread.

 

Not crossing the line, (or fearfully rejecting the force on the opposite side), in order to transform that potential, is the hardest balancing act of them all and one which draws neither sympathy nor understanding. Flinch, and you enter the vortex of habituation - Maya's bondage.

 

The transmutation of the lower into the higher, requires nutriment drawn from the subterranean roots of the lower. It's the fuel of growth which also has the potential to consume us in turn.

 

One must needs lick honey off the razor's edge.

[Kajenx]

In relation to what Songtsan said and also this:

 

All people have enlightened mind as the essence of awareness. The only reason for self-refinement is that the runaway mentality must be reined in enough to trick it into forgetting to think about… anything anymore (out of pure habit based on existential fear). Moreover, enlightening being has no reason to think itself into being as a virtual running sore of ideas for kinetic future being out of sheer habit. It is a total waste of energy turning which only changes the Unborn into death itself.

 

I'm wondering if the mind needs to be reined in, or if the mind settles itself. I've spent a lot of time trying to force a kind of mindfulness, but if you begin thinking of it as the opposite, it seems to be much easier. If I let my mind wander, and then allow that wandering mind to be an object of awareness along with the rest of the world outside it, it seems much easier to remain in an observant state. Maybe this is what you mean by following desire? We can follow the desire in the same way a puppy will follow an interesting smell - maybe roll in it a bit when we find it - then move on whenever it seems more interesting to do so. XD

[deci belle]

Kajenx said:

I'm wondering if the mind needs to be reined in, or if the mind settles itself.

 

It is reined in by forgetting to use it, so it does itself revert to its natural state, i.e. settled. If it is allowed to go off on its own untended, this is ordinary ignorance. Self refinement is settling the mind by observation in stillness and activity.

 

 

 

If I let my mind wander, and then allow that wandering mind to be an object of awareness along with the rest of the world outside it, it seems much easier to remain in an observant state.

 

This is mindful observation. This is precisely the way to carry on one's day regardless of conditions. This is akin to seeing oneself and the world as the void itself and void of itself. In the void, there is only unity. Observing coming and going within unity is just seeing. Just this is profound practice.

 

 

 

Maybe this is what you mean by following desire? We can follow the desire in the same way a puppy will follow an interesting smell - maybe roll in it a bit when we find it - then move on whenever it seems more interesting to do so. XD

 

hahhaaa!! But there is something in the recognition. As far as following the smell, there is discernment, which is immediate knowledge. Does he like it or not? Puppy likes it if he rolls in it. When puppy comes home, clearly it is obvious that he has stepped over the line. So in recognition of potential, the knowledge is immediate. One already sees it as oneself.

 

When a point of light appears in the void, this is desire. It will come to us with all possibility intact. Recognition is following. Mindful observation is following. Rolling in it changes it, and this is going too far. But stopping at smelling deeply might not be going too far. In any case, it depends on the situation.

 

But our desire isn't just a smelly lump. It has volition that requires our response. Though desire is karmic in nature, enlightening being is a matter of seeing potential in the midst of karmic energy, and absorbing potential without incurring karmic debt.

 

This is precisely why there is following desire without stepping over the line.

 

Though we see desire as ourselves, still we don't know what it is. If we do not yet know that this essence of desire is already complete, and then seek to do something with it, then this essence loses its uncreated potential and so do we in regards to the situation. When potential falls into the created, it evolves into killing energy. One must observe evolution in terms of yin convergence. Smelling the situation is a very good simile. Even pressing one's nose into it without incurring too much stickiness works too. Otherwise, should we take some home with us, we have already changed the situation. That is the real danger of working with desire.

 

When the energy of desire turns into killing energy, one must then withdraw the fire and store the unrefined elixir void of intellectualism— not letting so much as a spark leak out of the empty vessel.

 

So dealing with change/karma/potential/desire must be a matter of knowledge. Those who see change are not subject to Change. That is the rule. Otherwise, one will get hung up.

 

Discretion is essential. True desire is like the essence of a verrry erotic spark. It must be handled with a kind of flair …style, if you will. Otherwise it is best left alone for another time.

 

Taking it home isn't wrong. Taking it home is like putting medicine in the cauldron to be cooked. It is dangerous. One must be able to maintain a subtle quality of nonpsychological unminding throughout. Though the situation is banging on our door, we do not let it in. Though our own mind is fire, we do not let it out unawares.

 

Dealing with desire effectively is a very delicate affair, where the difference between not enough and too far is as a hairsbreadth. This is how we must measure the medicines. This is how powerful potential is.

 

When you take it home, one has now created a kind of working karma in the present. Keeping this volatile karmic presence present and viable by maintaining its quality of potential intact is described in the alchemic manuals as observing unrefined elixir. If one can manage to seal it away by mind without damaging its essential undefinable nature (by not defining it through habituation to intellectualism), the unrefined will cook by nonpsychological concentration into refined potential whereby this is then absorbed naturally in the center of one's immaterial real body which has no location.

 

I liked your comment, Kajenx.❤

 

 

 

 

 

ed note: ad "Self refinement is settling the mind by observation in stillness and activity." in first paragraph; add to 9th paragraph

Edited February 6, 2014 by deci belle

[Kajenx]

Smelling the situation is a very good simile. Even pressing one's nose into it without incurring too much stickiness works too. Otherwise, should we take some home with us, we have already changed the situation. That is the real danger of working with desire.

...

So dealing with change/karma/potential/desire must be a matter of knowledge. Those who see change are not subject to Change. That is the rule. Otherwise, one will get hung up.

...

Discretion is essential. True desire is like the essence of a verrry erotic spark. It must be handled with a kind of flair …style, if you will. Otherwise it is best left alone for another time.

...

Dealing with desire effectively is a very delicate affair, where the difference between not enough and too far is as a hairsbreadth. This is how we must measure the medicines. This is how powerful potential is.

 

 

I had a very important realization a few weeks ago (important for myself, I should say, maybe most other people know this already). I was sitting in the parking lot of a store and I saw some beautiful boys walk by. I've always had little pangs of longing when I see beautiful people, and I decided to sift through the feelings and see what they actually were. One of them was sexual, one was a desire to be like them, another was a craving to posses them. The last one caught be by surprise! Sexual desire is obvious - I'd thought through that before - and desire to be like a beautiful person is an expression of vanity (I think I'm a very vain person most of the time haha), but I'd never thought of people as actual possessions before. Or, I should say, I've always thought of people as possessions, but I never realized it. This was the true root of the feeling, and it changed my whole viewpoint just by knowing about it.

 

Suddenly their beauty was something I could enjoy completely, in and of itself, as an expression of my humanity rather than as a desire for any kind of possession. I thought of them like wild birds, more beautiful in their freedom from my clinging mind than they were when I had tried to posses them. I thought about all the beautiful people in the world, and I realized that, by wishing nothing about them, I suddenly could posses them all in whatever contact I had with them, and when the contact was over, there would be no loss. Longing and desire comes from wanting more than we have and missing the whole that's already there. There was no competition all of a sudden, no need for any relationship in specific, no anger at the ugliness of one person because the person next to them is beautiful. It had all been there before and was suddenly erased.

 

All of this is, of course, completely ridiculous, as well, because how can we really posses anything? The moment we take hold of something, it slips away. The universe is well oiled, you might say...

 

 

A lot of people view desire as simple positive attachment, forgetting that aversion is a desire as well. To strengthen oneself by sublimating positive attachment is respectable. To strengthen oneself by sublimating negative attachment is the pathway of wheel-turning kings and queens.

 

This is the most important thing I've learned in the last month in my own practice! I've carried a lot of hatred with me over the years, and I recently had an experience that showed me what my mind could really be like without any of those feelings. It was wonderful! But then when I went back to "normal" it was agony to realize how much I'd put in my own way, and how much strength I'd given it. Amazingly, it doesn't take much to let it all go. I kept thinking of it like "unilaterally disarming" myself. If it helps, try to see all negativity as suffering. If someone is angry at you, you can respond with compassion for how horribly hurt they must be. This can be a truly lovely feeling in itself, and it will end conflicts very quickly. I like to tell myself these days that: "I will accept everything, and judge nothing. Not because my judgments are wrong or because I have no right to judge, but because I want to be free from judging. It is the greatest burden."

 

 

Hyperactive minds are like runaway trains...if you can't stop the train because it is far weightier than your own will, you must simply ride the wave with as much awareness as possible. Don't try to force the train. Apply middle-path pressure - not in the red zone, not in the green zone. This is the top of the bell curve. Following desire isn't being led like a dog, it's riding the desire like Shiva on the Snake of time and creation. Watching it with equanimity and perhaps even amusement! Existence is the greatest movie of all time.

 

But you already know everything I just said. ^^

 

 

I highly recommend seeking out self-styled smelly odors whenever you are exposed to them...by seeking I mean pursue full on jhana into them if you can, with full relaxation...works wonders.

 

I've been looking into something similar with pain and gore visualization. (I've always been afraid of sharp things...) It's about acceptance in the end, so if we can face our worse fears (and worst smells, haha) with tranquility, we can rid ourselves of even more burdens than we'll probably ever have to face.

 

One way you can put it is that you first actively apply mindfulness to what you're doing then eventually the mindfulness becomes natural. Then you drop the idea of who is being mindful.

 

I love this! (Also love your avatar. :3)

 

Desire is Energy - it's Power! It is your fuel! Rocket-fuel!!!!!

 

...Harness it, ride those demon desires - make them your slave bitches! Once you stop letting them run you, and instead you run them, they are your fierce and powerful demon allies...

 

Haha, just remember that you're allowed to get off when the ride is over. Walking might not seem as fast as a jet pack, but if the jet pack has no gas, you can walk faster without it on your back.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Kajenx

[dee]

Recognizing the potential in the present moment. Being more present than the moment. It's a constant dance. Realizing potential in your desires (and can go beyond that as to any emotional distress, physical pain) is what stuck with me. Thank you!

Edited February 7, 2014 by dee

[deci belle]

Kajenx said:

Suddenly their beauty was something I could enjoy completely, in and of itself, as an expression of my humanity rather than as a desire for any kind of possession. I thought of them like wild birds, more beautiful in their freedom from my clinging mind than they were when I had tried to posses them. I thought about all the beautiful people in the world, and I realized that, by wishing nothing about them, I suddenly could posses them all in whatever contact I had with them, and when the contact was over, there would be no loss. Longing and desire comes from wanting more than we have and missing the whole that's already there.

 

It's like this forever. It has no fancy sanskrit title. In the center of essence is the wholeness of desire. With this perspective, we can follow our heart's desire. Longing is seen for what it is— a load of really pathetic self-importance… some people say it what makes the world go 'round. I say it keeps the karmic world turning.

 

So are there any questions about how to stop the world~ not to get off of it, but to get off on it without going along with it.

[deci belle]

Malikshreds said:

 

You can also investigate the source of the desire and figure out how to drop that. Actually investigating the causes is very important. Ordinary people chase after conditions and have no clue what the cause was.

 

The thrust of the thread is following true desire arising from within oneself as a result of spontaneous accord with mutually arising conditions in order to carry out the subtle operation of enlightening being.

 

I am not addressing the kind of work that amounts to initiatory stages of provisional teachings of stopping and seeing in terms of carrying out discipline to recognize and discriminate habitual psychological patterns relative to sense-objects.

 

When one accepts the wholeness of being as-is in terms of pure desire that requires no action based on longing— only response to the situation based on potential itself, there is the opportunity to continually arrive at the incipient well-spring of presence.

 

On the surface, just this much is all a person can do— it is just the quality of impersonal objectivity, the functional perspective of enlightening being adapting to conditions according to the time and situation. This perspective is the pivot of awareness, with no bias or inclination, there is seeing Suchness as is.

 

Just this is beyond karmic awareness. One is essentially empty already. Emptiness isn't void. The emptiness of enlightening being is potential itself because selflessness is the sage's unity within the temporal. Everything is oneself.

 

Alchemy is just a teaching. It isn't a reality outside of the real. It is an effective device to enable those with eyes for complete reality to become familiar with the celestial mechanism. Using desire is a ploy to gain a working relationship with potential.

 

When one is blind to egotism and possessiveness, one sees all sorts of striving come to an end. This is existence beyond karmic awareness. No longer expending any energy on speculative relationships and outcomes, just adapting to conditions naturally is gathering potential (unrefined elixir). This is selflessness. There is no moralistic self-consciousness here. It's just being natural. Enlightening activity has no motive to gather. Alchemy is just a description of the process of situational karmic energy reverting to potential for those whose potential is not yet realized in terms of sudden realization.

 

It isn't that karma exists or not or that potential becomes real after it wasn't… after one sees essence, karma and potential are the same thing. Before people learn to see, they need applicable teachings commensurate with their development to deal with reality according to their level of virtuous accord with the Way in order to transcend the false and abide in the real.

 

Before that development reaches a critical mass of energetic response whereby one actually can recognize the medicines, the teaching of alchemy has been left behind by prior illuminates to enable the wise to work with the polluted in order to realize the pure. When one practices the real in the heart of the false for a long time, the false reverts of itself and one experiences spiritual movement based on psychological stillness. There is nothing to understand. All processes are spontaneous.

 

This is following the will of God without knowing it. When one sees, there is nothing whatsoever to know. Dealing with situations, one follows desire in order to introduce guidance, which is a code-word for observing obscurity as it turns into clarity.

 

Desire is. It turns into wisdom when you have the eyes to see nothing outside oneself.

[deci belle]

Hi Deci,

 

 

Yes, I would love some guidance on how to get off on the world without going along with it.

 

You said:-

"I am not addressing the kind of work that amounts to initiatory stages of provisional teachings of stopping and seeing in terms of carrying out discipline to recognize and discriminate habitual psychological patterns relative to sense-objects."

 

Which would have been my approach; so I'm floundering slightly.

 

Thanks

 

Pat

 

So in my sassiest manner I can muster, I would say that that would have been whatever I posted above your comment~ heehee!!❤❤

 

In the knowledge of nonorigination and sameness within difference, one just rests in the unfolding presence as is without activating the discriminating mind. Bankei said, "Don't turn the Unborn into other states". Bodhidharma said, "Don't know".

 

In not changing the pristine pivot of awareness into karmic existence, is the knowledge of nonorigination and sameness within difference itself. Laotzu said, "There is no thing". This no thing has no cause. Creation itself is causeless. Creation is itself THE causeless. There is no thing comprising the perpetual state within nonoriginated causelessness. Creation is no thing. Since there is no thing to grasp in reality, we abide in reality without grasping. I know there is nothing to grasp, so floundering is the human mentality's way of grasping at Chuangtzu's nothing whatsoever. Turning karma into potential is as natural as turning over your hand when the human mentality doesn't arise. Perhaps what I just wrote is of no further help, but I will address the next part of your comment here to make up for it.

 

What Malikshreds spoke of is de rigueur for strengthening and simplifying the elements of sincere intent which are present behind-the-scenes throughout the process of self-refinement and beyond. He wanted to make sure that the stimuli and psychological patterns comprising karmic events are recognized fully and discerned accurately by the bums who are able to carry this out in the course of ordinary affairs without having to go along with the quality of their sensory kinetic energies' unawares.

 

So that being your approach is entirely appropriate, Pat. And when that approach has proceeded effectively to the point where one no longer even produces "grasp" thoughts, much less grasps at reality mindlessly due to habit energy— this is because the processes of effective self-refinement having sucked the momentum out of the human mentality's power to perpetuate its own specious identity as karmic existence and luminous still presence having been reinstated as one's permanent nonpsychological posture, there is nothing left to refine. Mind is one, there are no two mentalities. Delusion is unskillful use of mind, that's all.

 

Sudden realization of one's essential nature is the result of such enlightening activity, not the cause of it. When you see your nature, you not only see that that has been your true identity all along, you know that ALL being is thus.

 

When I say that I am not addressing the kind of work that amounts to initiatory stages of provisional teachings of stopping and seeing in terms of carrying out discipline to recognize and discriminate habitual psychological patterns relative to sense-objects, it means that what I am bringing up is relative to enlightening activity beyond the stage of self-refinement.

 

This is entry into the inconceivable. We are all just this inconceivability. Inconceivability is your own mind. I have to admit that there is not much difference between stages (in fact, there are no stages). Just know that self-refinement in terms of gradual practice and gradual practice of enlightening being are one. In the aftermath of the sudden, the emphasis is just a bit different, that's all.

 

Since there is no difference in terms of enlightening being before or after the sudden, I speak of the perspective of selfless enlightening function in ordinary situations because when dealing directly with essence in terms of turning the light around spoken of in the Golden Flower teaching, there is no intermediary. This teaching is essentially no different than the subtle operation within Suchness spoken of by Chan or the term entering the Tao in reality of the school of Complete Reality.

 

I can recommend a small manual which has passages discussing gradual practice leading up to and in the aftermath of the sudden called Minding Mind. It is translated by Thomas Cleary, the ISBN is 1-57062-004-0.

 

You might even have it already!

 

 

In the knowledge of nonorigination and sameness within difference…

this is a place… it is just where you are, wherever you are. It is not a property of intellect. It is… one's relationship with reality. It IS reality.

 

Yes, knowledge is a place.

 

 

 

 

ed note: add last bit with the quote

Edited February 12, 2014 by deci belle

[dawei]

In not changing the pristine pivot of awareness into karmic existence, is the knowledge of nonorigination and sameness within difference itself. Laotzu said, "There is no thing". This no thing has no cause. Creation itself is causeless. Creation is itself THE causeless. There is no thing comprising the perpetual state within nonoriginated causelessness. Creation is no thing. Since there is no thing to grasp in reality, we abide in reality without grasping. I know there is nothing to grasp, so floundering is the human mentality's way of grasping at Chuangtzu's nothing whatsoever. Turning karma into potential is as natural as turning over your hand when the human mentality doesn't arise.

 

Could you expand on this (either here or as a new topic)?

 

I have heard of dependent origination but not much about nonorigination...

[deci belle]

Yes dawei~ it's fine here in terms of the ground of reality where flowers fall amidst our longing and weeds sprout…

The palace of knowledge of nonorigination of the absolute constituting mind carries over in terms of the sameness within difference of temporal distinctions in light of unity of potential. I say palace here where I said place above because (it was easy and clever) it is indeed the refuge of enlightening being in the midst of the world. There is no other mind and there is no other world. The entire world is this palace.

Enlightening being has no separate distinction from within the temporal because it is all things are oneself. This is a point of confusion because it does not mean oneself (or others) exist, just that the function of real people of inconceivable knowledge is dependent on the situation itself, not the personality. Adapting to conditions impersonally by maintaining psychological equipoise in spite of (or by using) external appearances to the contrary, one steals potential without entering into multifarious ramifications. Not being subject to Change, one becomes a partner with(in) creative evolution in order to influence the world.

Nonorigination is the same as Causelessness. The light is itself unattributable. The knowledge of nonorigination is the power of transcendence from within Change. Those who possess this knowledge use it without dissipating it. There is nothing outside this knowledge. Actually, this knowledge is the natural pattern within creation that can be seen by adepts of all the authentic teachings. Following the celestial way is possible by seeing reality as is. This isn't return to the Tao— this is once having entered the Tao in reality, it is as if one had never been otherwise as one's entry into the inconceivable is the unborn.

In terms of gradual practice leading to the sudden, this can be said to be return to the tao— but I am speaking of the function which is one from beginning to end in terms of the gradual. In terms of the absolute sudden all-at-once, there is no beginning to speak of.

The knowledge of Nonorigination is another way of saying knowledge of the Unborn. This is immortality.

If it weren't for Change, there would be no power of Tao to speak of. Since the function of Tao is return… but the unattributable has never moved, why does it function as return? The only reason for talking about tao is because of Change. So return is relative to Change. When speaking of return, it implies adepts never moving from the pivot of awareness in the midst of changes in perpetuity.

In terms of endless transformations where adepts turn the dross of karmic existence into the elixir of immortality as a matter of course, nonorigination is the point of no return where the power of knowledge is the center of the compass of nonorigination being your nature.

Adepts study tao and emulate its function to return to that which has never left, has never moved, has never gone into action, has never fallen into the created. it is not that the tao returns, it is that adepts use its function to return themselves to witness their nature and conduct endless transformations within the course of temporal karmic evolution in the light of unity.

Nonorigination is seeing there is nothing to grasp, since nothing is essentially created. The unattributable light is the selfless identity of creation. Awareness is unattributable. Awareness is nonoriginated. It is not created. The light of the mind people use to create delusion is uncreated already. Sudden realization is not only just seeing this for the first time, it is completely severing the bond between the false identity of self, which is the root of karmic existence, and the nonoriginated, uncreated, selfless impersonal aware energy of the Causeless, which is one's true identity.

Nonorigination is the point of reference for enlightening beings' selfless activity. Neither good or bad, selflessness is just indicative of the impersonal nonpsychologically aware function of enlightening being. No-self is one's true nature. The expression of enlightening nonbeing within being is analogous to sameness within difference. It is just the functional aspect of adepts, buddhas, wizards, saints and immortals operating subtly within the temporal without experiencing, causing or accruing (perpetuating) karmic energy.

 

 

 

 

ed note: add "…" in 7th paragraph

Edited February 12, 2014 by deci belle

[3bob]

"Do I hear a little ghost-ship would do battle with my global oceanic wonder? My laughter is so very terrible, cheri— it looks like an armada of puffy indifferent clouds, which are vastly outnumbered by whitecaps lapping above the abyss …on to the vaulted horizon.

 

But where are you, hmmmmmm?" By Deci

 

 

Your squawking makes your hawking obvious... grow up.

Edited February 12, 2014 by 3bob

[Trunk]

~~~ ADMIN STATEMENT ~~~

 

Some quotes from TTBs 3 Foundations document:

TTBs exists in the general field of "The Search for Truth".

The Usual organized formats (schools) for The Search tend to have:

1. focus exclusively within a school

2. hierachical learning structure, hierachical ability to speak

TheTaoBums' founding principles form a deliberate cultural counter-point:

1. run independently of any school, which allows a more eclectic atmosphere

2. conversational learning, egalitarian ability for members to speak

TTBs' social format is "cafeteria", not "classroom". It's part of TTBs' premise that, broadly in culture, these two formats are necessary, distinct yet complementary.

 

...

 

TTBs' Conversational Context:

1. At TTBs member participation in conversation is non-hierarchical. Meaning, members have equal ability to talk regardless of level of knowledge, achievement, or status / credentials of any kind. TTBs has an underlying ethic of valuing the communication of each person.

... and so on. Anyone who is not clear about this, please re-read the entire document.

 

regards,

Trunk

 

~~~ /ADMIN OUT ~~~

[zerostao]

does all philosophy, art, and ideal morph into song/music?

 

yeah, desire is a fever(and not every cat runs from a dog, but many do)

 

[dee]

Following your desire, right down to its root, to find the motivation for the desire, I find is a very helpful tool.

 

When we just act on desire it is just unstable energy. If we go to the root of the desire and realize that it is just motivation; we can channel that motivation into energy.

Edited February 28, 2014 by dee

[dawei]

Pitted posts here:

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/33775-songtsan-following-desire/

 

Carry on Deci...

[deci belle]

Thank you, dawei❤

 

 

dee said:

When we just act on desire it is just unstable energy. If we go to the root of the desire and realize that it is just motivation; we can channel that motivation into that energy.

 

If we go to the root of desire and stay there without thinking, the potential of the source of desire in its multifarious manifestations will be stored in the homeland of nothing-whatsoever. This is the Center; it has no location. This is where one returns when the energy of nonorigination is replete and one sees one's nature and plants the seed of buddahood in the Great Void and spins the Dharma Wheel oneself.

 

This is the true root of desireless desire which is so due to the functional expression of selfless knowledge. This is the divine.

 

In the interim, one is "gathering potential" by recognizing the real in the midst of the false. One does this for no reason at all, only assessing situations impersonally and adapting to conditions objectively to abide in the midst of karmic evolution without perpetuating the evolution of polluted energy.

 

How this is done is by being vulnerable to desires and then withdrawing at the right time. Each time depends on each unique situation because the only constant is the pattern of created cycles manifesting by the virtue of the Power of tao.

 

The real working definition of a taoist is one who absorbs this immaterial potential essence inherent in creative evolution while in the midst of creative evolution. One is not invulnerable in any sense. As one proves one's virtue over a long period of time in accord with reality in actual events, creation responds accordingly as virtue builds, and one begins a cycle of provisional entry into the inconceivable.

 

Only this is the functional appearance of the true path of self-refinement. These are the trials of real accomplishment that no one knows.

 

As accomplishment deepens, the gravity and consequence of developmental situations grow in magnitude.

 

This can be truly likened to a state of grace. Only those who are or who have gone through this experience can know what I am referring to.

 

One enters this by virtue of following desires and one passes through this by the power of impersonal transcendence that is inherent in each situation. It is not by one's own power at any stage other than by stopping and seeing; not by acting.

 

The sage's only action is by virtue of response. This is the working definition of spontaneity. It is so because the Power of the Virtue of Receptivity is inherent in creation itself. The sage is the world. No one is any different to the core of their being.

 

 

 

 

 

ed note: add "in the Great Void and spins the Dharma Wheel oneself" at the end of the 1st paragraph

Edited February 27, 2014 by deci belle

[rain]

This is one awsome post deci belle

Edited February 27, 2014 by rain

[deci belle]

…sigh❤ merci, ma copine!!

[deci belle]

Each time depends on each unique situation because the only constant is the pattern of created cycles manifesting by the virtue of the Power of tao.

One matches the quality of developmental evolution within the context of situations with attention, whether it be unassuming, keen, gathering, dispersing, empty, receding, etc. It is the situation itself that directs energy. One matches the energy with equipoise, without bias or inclination. This is using potential to match creation. One uses the potential inherent in each situation to match the creative manifestation without entering into speculative relationships.

 

Speculative relationships are based on fear and avarice, joy and cloying habit-energy, passing moods and circumstantial concepts relative to self and other (to name a few).

 

If one waits as a matter of course, there is just finding out what happened. Waiting is the natural process of clarification unfolding. Dealing with situations through others' eyes and responding in accord with the time is "planting lotuses in fire, going through endless transformations".

 

This is what I mean by the term waiting.

 

When is one not waiting? In seeing desire, one waits on desire's unfolding. In terms of Power, waiting is knowing what one is waiting for. Immortalism is resting in the endless unfolding of the essence of desire, which is uncreated. Even the course of creative evolution is a complete mystery to talk about love. How much more so is the immaterial Way of buddhas?

 

So the constant is properly referred to as the celestial mechanism in terms of the medicinal energy of the two things. It's just reality not relative to self and other. When one has the mind to see reality in this way, it is easy to discern the times inherent in every cycle; the cycles within cycles are no different.

 

There is no concern for keeping track of such things. Maintaining a subtle concentration mindful of nonpsychological awareness, one ceases personal interpretations while adapting. When one ceases habituation to interpretative perspectives altogether, this is what makes selfless adaption possible. By this I mean when one sees through others' eyes, one sees others' desire and has the means to adapt to the situation relative to that.

 

This is waiting without admitting bias or inclination. When one sees desire in this way, reality is always complete. Alchemy is, for the most part, just accomplishing knowledge without thinking about anything. Buddhism is just activating the mind without dwelling on anything (its contents).

 

The critical aspect of advancing and withdrawing the fire in terms of the celestial mechanism is just a matter of timing based on the energy of desire.

 

Every cycle is a buildup and a letdown. Since there are cycles within cycles, it is not a cagey maneuver when I say stealing potential is like leaving when the time is ripe. It is not a matter of volition. When it is just the way it is, action is selfless~ that is, spontaneous. When one doesn't want anything, everything is more than enough. One watches the elements acting in concert and then one returns (to emptiness) at the right time.

 

The medicinal energy of the two things is like not speculating on circumstantial outcomes, then not dwelling on the arising of potential, in terms of virtuous accord.

 

Who knew this to be the correct medicinal proportion of yin and yang of immortalism?

 

Seeing this is knowledge. It is not that one does anything with it. The knowledge of the celestial mechanism has no peer.

 

Neither doing nor not doing, one gathers the medicines to refine the elixir, in the pot pairing fire and water.

 

Following desires without stepping over the line is another way to say the same thing without getting into specifics.

 

It is not being personally involved; it is being impersonally involved. Acting on knowledge is most often a matter of withdrawal~ no matter what it looks like to the world at large.

 

When one follows desires without stepping over the line, it is a strategy for amplifying potential …concentrating vitality into energy by the impersonal adaption of forgetting feelings, then refining energy into spirit by not entertaining intellectualism. When the time is right, one recedes and waits for spiritual potential to clarify by returning to innocence.

 

This is the period described in the manuals as "ten months of incubation".

 

The process itself is cycles within cycles. But ultimately, nothing happens. When you see this, you finally know what happened in terms of the first line of the 3rd paragraph of this post. This is one cycle comprising cycles.

 

There is a further development called emptying out openness, which is a spontaneous movement of the celestial mechanism.

 

There are no words.

 

Padmasambhava refers to this as the ever self-refreshing pristine awareness renewing itself. …that works for me.

 

 

 

 

ed note: add "It is not a matter of volition. When it is just the way it is, action is selfless~ that is, spontaneous" in the 10th paragraph

Edited February 28, 2014 by deci belle