Then God said,

[taolpha]

"Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

 

The above verse from Genesis 1:26 New International Version was brought to my attention when talking with my parents one day. I am neither Christian nor well versed in the "bible". Studying religions of various types is a fascination of mine is the only reason I bring this up.

 

Christians as I understand it believe in only one God yet if we are to take the words just as they are; he says "our image, in our likeness". Does that not mean more than one? Through my studies I'm starting to find a lot of truths in the bible more related to my Taoist way of thinking (haven't taken the time to read the thing yet).

 

Any one else have thoughts on this? Just as a comparison I pulled up the King James Version and "our" was still used there.

[zenbrook]

[Any one else have thoughts on this? Just as a comparison I pulled up the King James Version and "our" was still used there.

Dug up the following, which seems to confirm my suspicion - God referred to in the plural is a little like the 'royal we' of the British Queen. God is great etc....

 

In the Eerdmans Bible Dictionary we read the following explanation of the word "Elohiym":

 

"As a name or designation of the God of Israel, the term is understood as a plural of majesty or an intensive plural, indicating the fullness of the supreme (or only) God ... the canonical intent is clearly monotheistic, even where the accompanying verbs or adjectives are grammatically plural (e.g. Gen. 20:13, Exod. 22:9 [Mt 8])"

 

Hope this helps (sorry it's not more exciting)

 

Peace,

ZenB

[Pero]

Another theory is, that the reason it`s "our" is that there were many, and they were aliens... So they created us in their image....

[Yi Tao]

The word for "God" is "elohim". It is always used in the plural form in the Old Testament.

 

Christians believe in a Triune God. A single God in three parts. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The term trinity does not exist in the Bible, but it is an invention of Christians to explain what is contained in the Bible.

 

Some say that it doesn't make sense that there is only one God, and yet there are 3 aspects / parts. This is easily explained (avoided) because there are mysteries of God that we'll never understand. It comes down to faith. Believing without seeing, or believing without human understanding. If you need a somewhat rational explanation of the Trinity, consider a coin. It has heads and tails. So there is Coin the Heads and Coin the Tails, but only a single coin.

 

I guess a cynic would say God in schizophrenic and just talking with himself.

[gendao]

Another theory is, that the reason it`s "our" is that there were many, and they were aliens... So they created us in their image....

Yup, that's Zechariah Sitchin's theory. It actually makes a whole lotta sense - for a variety of reasons. I can go into more detail...if this discussion turns that way...

[Cameron]

My gut tells me we have been around a long ass time .At best modern attempts at our ancient history just look at recent ancient history. We don't have a clue what really went down millions of years ago.

 

I mean, they found Lucy a female who walked upright over 3 million years ago.

 

OVER 3 MILLION YEARS AGO!!!

 

Maybe she wasn't exactly like modern humans but had alot of the same characterstics(I think?!)

 

So..what is the Bible...like 5000 YEARS OLD?!

 

Science and common sense is a better help with this I think. Of course if any higher life forms exist I would be interested just for the fun factor.

 

I know it's hard to accept but as Master Yoda and other's I talk to have said the law of physics may pretty much prevent beings from other universes to even get here in the first place. We are all one but maybe it's more like we are all islands without boats than the Star Trek universe some people invision.

 

The real question I would have if Lucy is over 3 million years old and humans have been around a loooooooong time where are all of our civilizations? Ancient Egypt is an interesting pointer. I mean some scientists were saying the Sphynx is like 15,000 years old. Which would mean we were pretty advanced back then. Maybe floods..natural disasters did wipe out ancient civilzations. It's hard to imagine, especially if we have been around that long(Ime talking physical humans here not spiritually..spirit is a whole other thing which in my opinion stops this whole discussion and makes it rather boring).

[Lozen]

God is male and female, God created a male/female being and then extracted the male from the female and thus they were separate beings. At least, that's the Jewish take on it.

[Cameron]

At very least modern humans are almost 200,00 years old. So most of our recorded history is pretty much recent events.

 

Lozen..from what I can tell God created most of the animal kingdom which have been around for millions of years in male and female..seems to be how the universe likes to operate..the whole yin and yang thing

 

link

[Pero]

The word for "God" is "elohim". It is always used in the plural form in the Old Testament.

 

Christians believe in a Triune God. A single God in three parts. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The term trinity does not exist in the Bible, but it is an invention of Christians to explain what is contained in the Bible.

 

Some say that it doesn't make sense that there is only one God, and yet there are 3 aspects / parts. This is easily explained (avoided) because there are mysteries of God that we'll never understand. It comes down to faith. Believing without seeing, or believing without human understanding. If you need a somewhat rational explanation of the Trinity, consider a coin. It has heads and tails. So there is Coin the Heads and Coin the Tails, but only a single coin.

 

I guess a cynic would say God in schizophrenic and just talking with himself.

 

Doesn`t Elohim mean "those who came from the sky" or something like that? And what do Christian notions have to do with that? Old testament wasn`t written by Christians. And I`m not sure that the "god" of the old testament and the "god" of the new one are the same.

 

 

The real question I would have if Lucy is over 3 million years old and humans have been around a loooooooong time where are all of our civilizations? Ancient Egypt is an interesting pointer. I mean some scientists were saying the Sphynx is like 15,000 years old. Which would mean we were pretty advanced back then. Maybe floods..natural disasters did wipe out ancient civilzations. It's hard to imagine, especially if we have been around that long(Ime talking physical humans here not spiritually..spirit is a whole other thing which in my opinion stops this whole discussion and makes it rather boring).

 

Aliens....

[Yi Tao]

what do Christian notions have to do with that? Old testament wasn`t written by Christians.

 

The Old Testament and the New Testament are both part of the Christian Bible. You can think of it as the old contract and the new contract if that helps. Jesus didn't come to replace or destroy the old contract, but to complete it.

 

The old testament required blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin. It was an agreement of the law.

 

The new testament does not require blood sacrifice because Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. It is an agreement of grace.

[gendao]

God is male and female, God created a male/female being and then extracted the male from the female and thus they were separate beings. At least, that's the Jewish take on it.

That seems a somewhat confused interpretation...

 

Elohim is Eloah (see Allah) in plural form. "The most likely derivation comes from the word Elohim ('lhm) found in the Ugarit archives, meaning the family or pantheon associated with the Canaanite father God El." Therefore, Elohim probably referred to a race or council of beings...that probably included both males and females. As opposed to Elohim being a singlular hermaphroditic being.

 

I mean, the very concept of a monotheistic Elohim is self-contradicted by its own plural nature. Now, there may have been a head honcho amongst the Elohim that many bowed down to...or some amorophous, organic source that many now may define as a "monotheistic God," but I don't think the "Elohim" specifically was either of these. Although, polytheism and monotheism can be rather subjective distinctions anyways - as you could have ten thousand expressions and aspects of the same one thing. So, the same thing could be seen as both polytheistic or monotheistic - depending upon your POV.

 

Hence, PRECiSION of meaning is EVERYTHING in deciphering ancient knowledge. Etymology, semantics, logic & intuition are KEYS to unlocking the true intent and original meanings.

 

Another good example of this is the Anglo word sin...which was a translation of a Greek word:

The Greek word hamartia (ἁμαρτία) is usually translated as sin in the New Testament; it means "to miss the mark" or "to miss the target" which was also used in Old English archery

Thus, "sin" meant not so much WRONG, but just not quite RIGHT. A slight, but big difference.

 

And another relevant example here is the Holy Ghost/Spirit.

 

Holy is derived from the Indo-European root hailo- or kailo- "free from injury, whole" - or what we might term "holistic" today.

 

Ghost/spirit were translations for the Greek word pneuma (breath, spirit) and Hebrew word ruah (wind). Gee, pretty close to the Chinese word qi - which also means air, bioenergy, etc.

 

Therefore, "Holy Ghost/Spirit" would be better translated as "holistic qi" in today's language.

[taolpha]

Edited July 10, 2007 by taolpha

[Cameron]

Actually the idea that we came from somewhere else and got "stranded" here or something is kind of interesting.

 

Who knows. Like one of my teachers said "eternity is a long time". hehe.

[Lozen]

Vortex, I was giving the Jewish interpretation. And they were montheists. Sorry. Yi Tao, the claim that Jesus' death was one sacrifice for sin for all time is not supported by the Hebrew Scriptures. Also, in modern-day Judaism (nothing to do with Jesus) blood sacrifice isn't necessary. Repentant prayer will do. http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq042.html

 

I know this is a Taoist board, not a Jewish one, but just saying.

[gendao]

Vortex, I was giving the Jewish interpretation. And they were montheists. Sorry.

Well, I don't care whose belief that is - I'm just giving my take on it.

 

I mean frankly, Jewish monotheism was just one man's belief to begin with, anyways.

Abraham's father, Terach, had a shop for selling idols. He once departed, entrusting Abraham with minding the store. Abraham, who already had concluded that idols were false and had no power, took a big stick and smashed all the idols except one, the largest of all. Then he placed the big stick in the hands of the remaining idol. When his father returned and found the destruction in his shop, he was incensed. Abraham, though, related that the large idol had gotten into an argument with the other idols and had smashed them all in its fury. Terach did not believe Abraham's story. Abraham retorted that if Terach did not believe the idols had power, he should not worship them. Here we see another dimension of Abraham's monotheism.

Now, Abraham sounds like a hotheaded, ignorant extremist who lied to make his point. So, where's his credibility? IOW, why should we all follow HIS own personal beliefs? Slave mentality, much?

 

Fact is, we don't exactly know what these idols represented. Maybe they represented various aliens like in some cargo cult. Maybe they were personifications of stars and planets. Maybe they symbolized various spirits or ascended masters. Maybe they are all varied manifestations of the same "God" like in Hinduism. Or "ten thousand" diverse things from the Tao. Either way, I don't think any of these would have necessarily been contradictory to an overall "God" or "source."

 

But by viewing them as mutually-exclusive, Abraham created a false conflict and a very divisive meme.

[Yi Tao]

Sorry. Yi Tao, the claim that Jesus' death was one sacrifice for sin for all time is not supported by the Hebrew Scriptures.

 

That's probably why your not Christian.

[fatherpaul]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

god dosn't talk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Yi Tao]

god dosn't talk

 

I agree. It's more of a humming noise.

[fatherpaul]

I agree. It's more of a humming noise.

thats the ac unit, turn it down and listen,

i think he is speaking now.

[beancurdturtle]

thats the ac unit, turn it down and listen,

i think he is speaking now.

that's not god speaking

 

it's the boom box

playing Lyle Lovett

in the next room

 

...they just don't come no better than a bear

[fatherpaul]

that's not god speaking

 

it's the boom box

playing Lyle Lovett

in the next room

 

...they just don't come no better than a bear

i think perhaps your right

but there is an enlightenment infomercial on the tv next door, i am listening to that