Through depression we regain our spiritual bearings

[Nikolai1]

Spiritual growth occurs on many levels: on the inner level we discover higher and better ways feeling love, joy and peace. On the outer level we learn to be more uniquely and authentically ourselves. Through the pursuit of our own bliss, we learn what our unique individual role is in the infinite scheme.

 

Before spiritual growth occurs our roles are not individuated. We do whatever we have learnt to do from those around us. We conform to the practices appropriate to our situation in time and space.

 

To transcend our time-bound situation is spiritual growth, and it is painful.

 

Depression is one common form of spiritual pain. We feel depression when there emerges a discordance between our aspirant spiritual self, and our conformist time-space bound self.

 

We find it increasingly difficult to go along with what we have always been happy to do. Our hobbies, interests, motivations become irrelevant to us, but we have not yet developed the confidence to see them as outdated…and lower than we now want to be.

 

Our former ways were conformist. They therefore received the approval of all those around us. When we start to give up our former occupations we visibly reject what everyone around us consider to be the chief goods of life. We suffer criticism, and we are expecting to change. We double our sufferings by agreeing with our critics, because we do not yet have any explanation for our behaviour.

 

We have lost our will to conform. And as our whole being was as a conformist, we also lose our identity, self-respect and the respect of those around us.

 

One day our will to act, to enjoy, mysteriously returns. We say to ourselves “I just decided to pull myself together”…but this was no individual decision. Your return was prompted by the activity of a different kind of will.

 

This will, the will behind our own will, is what the spiritually growing person discovers.

 

Depression is no illness, however unpleasant it may feel. Just as fever is the body heat-blasting the microbes, depression is a curative process. And just as the onset of the fever is the start of recovery, depression is actually the attempt to heal a former state of pathology.

 

To the conformist in time and space, depression is the pathology. It is the loss of all that is important to the mortally minded individual. We must have the confidence to see things the other way round. In this as in all things, seeing things from the opposite perspective is the skill of the spiritually adept. It is the unique ability to see things through the eyes of our higher spiritual selves.

 

The first depression is the worst. They will continue to strike, but with the passing of each one we become stronger and more confident in our ability to cope.

 

Eventually, in the midst of the darkness a small voice is able to remind us:

 

“This is good for me” And we will feel grateful for the opportunity.

[yabyum24]

Thanks for putting that up. There are people in my life I greatly value who suffer from depression and I never know what to say to them about it. Understanding where they're at can help. I'm reluctant to recommend meditation, as I'm aware that "for a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail". In other words, it may be completely wrong for them.

[C T]

Thanks for putting that up. There are people in my life I greatly value who suffer from depression and I never know what to say to them about it. Understanding where they're at can help. I'm reluctant to recommend meditation, as I'm aware that "for a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail". In other words, it may be completely wrong for them.

the series of audio teachings by Ven. Robina in the buddhist sub-forum contains some very helpful pointers for those who seek to help others cope with mental anguish.

[chegg]

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Edited March 14, 2015 by chegg

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Yeah?

 

And that's supposed to make me feel better?

 

Seriously?

 

Bastard.

 

Don't worry, I'm laughin', not cryin'.

 

You see, I can't handle the truth.

...

Edited February 7, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[chegg]

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Edited March 14, 2015 by chegg

[Nikolai1]

There are people in my life I greatly value who suffer from depression and I never know what to say to them about it.

 

One thing they are almost certain not to hear is that depression might be a positive experience, and for that reason alone it is worth telling them. Different perspectives are never a bad thing.

 

 

I'm reluctant to recommend meditation, as I'm aware that "for a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail".

 

 

We must learn to trust the process of depression. Depression involves the spontaneous arising of behaviours that many spiritual aspirants attempt to mimic. The withdrawal from the world is a retreat into one's inner self. The will-lessness is the surrender to a higher power. The blankness and the apathy is meditation. The deep rumination is is the search for new truths, a search no different to that of the philosopher and jnana yogi.

 

In our encounters with the depressed person we can be the one's who aren't constantly exhorting them into returning to things they no longer want to do. We can be the ones who aren't constantly treating them as though there is something wrong with them (and what psychotherapist can avoid this tacit accusation?) We can be the ones who recognise that it takes a special attitude to be even capable of depression, and that a great deal of mischief in the world is caused by those who seem incapable of even a moment's reflection or hesitation of will.

 

Of course none of this makes sense to any but those who have already acquired a measure of higher wisdom. As I said in the OP, depression is the cessation of nearly all that the everyday world consider to be desirable human behaviour: industriousness, happiness, sociability. if the depressed person finds it hard to understand your viewpoint, it actually matters little for the time being. Your basic confidence in them, and the process they are going through will be of benefit to them regardless.

[yabyum24]

Thanks Nikoli, that's a great help. It makes a lot of sense.

[ronko]

When your in the death grip of REAL depression

"spirituality" is a bad , bad joke of the worst taste

and all this intellectual bullshit just aggravates an already wounded and tortured soul.

You cant even eat never mind read or concentrate and the idea that things are going to get better

seems like a walt disney fairytale.

you are totally alone and ready to implode at any given minute ( or so you think )

and you are , make no mistake about it ,

in a real living hell which you cannot escape from and no one else can understand.

 

The only thing I have found personally to move this deathly heavy energy

is a powerful physical and energetic shift ,

just enough to let a tiny bit of light in and even that needs the strongest of shifts ,

BUT...

That tiny little ray of sunshine breaking through the dense , dark clouds can be enough to save someones life when they are in the death grip.

Edited February 7, 2014 by ronko

[Nikolai1]

When your in the death grip of REAL depression

"spirituality" is a bad , bad joke of the worst taste

and all this intellectual bullshit just aggravates an already wounded and tortured soul.

 

When you're in a depression, all attempts to help can feel like intellectual bullshit...but still you find yourself on the receiving end of a gutful of it. The truth is, your depression scares people...it's just so hard to accept. You provoke everyone's deepest anxieties. They think your're going to kill yourself.

 

If you meet one person who can cope with your suffering, who can accept it and endorse it then this doesn't make the situation worse. The deepest, most complex depressions are a consequence of the sufferer not being able to accept their own loss of self. To cope with depression is first and foremost to accept its reality.

 

Talk to any person who has survived a deep depression and you are likely to hear a very strange thing. They do not regret what they went through. They find themselves to have been somehow enriched by the process. They appreciate the fuller vision of life they now hold... a vision that encompasses both the heights and the depths. They are more caring and compassionate in the face of human suffering.

 

And they look back on their former self, and actually find themselves standing in moral judgement of who they once were. So often people look back and recognise that their depression was inevitable linked to their own former behaviours.

 

Any therapist will know clients who think this way.

[C T]

I have a customer who suffers from depression. Chronic case. He is also a very successful stand-up comedian. Go figure!

[ronko]

 

 

 

Talk to any person who has survived a deep depression and you are likely to hear a very strange thing. They do not regret what they went through. They find themselves to have been somehow enriched by the process.

 

Not sure who you have talked to who has been through it but I regret what I have been through.

All those years lost , losing the people you love and deeply care for because of it.

And no , I dont find it enriching to have lived most of my adult life suffering.

And for the people who never shift from it , who live all there lives struggling with simple day to day activities.

Not meaning to sound insulting here but you sound just like another therapist / counsellor who has no real idea.

[ronko]

I have a customer who suffers from depression. Chronic case. He is also a very successful stand-up comedian. Go figure!

Strange that a lot of comedians suffer from depression .

[C T]

Strange that a lot of comedians suffer from depression .

yes, it does appear so!

[C T]

Even funnier when on some other thread people argue over 'consistency'!!! HAHAHA!!!!!

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Yeah.

...

Edited February 7, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[chegg]

Strange that a lot of comedians suffer from depression .

 

I think it was Gurdjeiff that talked a lot about wiseacring (making jokes) and what it has done to humanity, i.e., ".......that maleficent particularity of your psyche, called wiseacring". (source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=2xwnInGze5sC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=gurdjieff+wiseacring&source=bl&ots=eXnTWpNAFk&sig=dU9au7t2Fl_0A9G7xfeWQHhHuWc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0BD1Urn_I4eulAWAw4CoDw&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=gurdjieff%20wiseacring&f=false)

 

I can't quite explain it though.......

 

Maybe it just stems from an insecurity (the ego makes an individual to want to gain acceptance by making people laugh all the the time).

 

 

 

 

Blessings of Sensibility.

:wub: :wub: :wub:

Edited February 7, 2014 by chegg

[bax44]

 

I think it was Gurdjeiff that talked a lot about wiseacring (making jokes) and what it has done to humanity, i.e., ".......that maleficent particularity of your psyche, called wiseacring". (source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=2xwnInGze5sC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=gurdjieff+wiseacring&source=bl&ots=eXnTWpNAFk&sig=dU9au7t2Fl_0A9G7xfeWQHhHuWc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0BD1Urn_I4eulAWAw4CoDw&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=gurdjieff%20wiseacring&f=false)

 

I can't quite explain it though.......

 

Maybe it just stems from an insecurity (the ego makes an individual to want to gain acceptance by making people laugh all the the time).

 

 

 

 

Blessings of Sensibility.

:wub: :wub: :wub:

edit

Edited February 7, 2014 by bax44

[liminal_luke]

I used to think of depression as a stepping stone to spiritual growth too. That was before my partner's mental health started slipping. Now I think of my former attitude as more than a little dangerous.

 

Sure, we can grow through any adversity. Many seriously ill people--cancer, aids, etc--say they are grateful for their health problems because they've grown so much as a result. Good for them. I'm sure people who emerge from depression might say the same thing. They come through stronger than they were before.

 

But do we really want to say cancer isn't an illness just because some percentage of sufferers manage to squeeze some spiritual good out of it. Depression is no different. It's an illness that causes physical changes in brain tissue and leaves people at greater risk for other problems such as heart disease.

 

For research citations backing these claims see Against Depression by Peter Kramer.

 

Liminal

Edited February 7, 2014 by liminal_luke

[chegg]

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Edited March 28, 2015 by chegg

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Amen.

 

I'm diagnosed bipolar.

 

"Having children..."

 

I like that one.

 

There's a slightly odd stance to that piece, but nonetheless full of truth.

 

Trauma doth loosen the bonds of ignorance.

 

Perhaps not expressed in exactly the way I would.

 

Such a vast subject.

 

Where should I begin?

 

I wrote the poems, didn't I?

 

But yes my shields are gone bad.

 

I cry at the drop of a hat.

 

That ain't exactly a super serene buddha, now, is it?

 

Why do you think I meditate all the time?

 

I wear a hood too, try to keep my head physically shielded, yes just like a monk.

 

I'm a sensitive kind of guy.

...

Edited February 7, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[chegg]

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Edited March 28, 2015 by chegg

[3bob]

I don't think I know too many people on a spiritual journey who haven't had issues with physical or mental health.

 

Its got something to do with our psychological 'shield' (every child has an operating shield). The shield can be broken later in life a number of ways (drug use, meditation, psychological trauma, physical abuse etc..)

 

Once the shield goes, you become susceptible to psychological attack (and psychic to some extent).

 

Its imperative for everyone to remove negative and destructive elementals from their aura before undertaking advanced mediation practices. (or at least learn how to protect yourself).

 

Once the shield is broken, it is unlikely that it can be repaired and and new set of practices need to be adopted to compensate.

 

 

I wrote something here...

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32597-opinion-on-mind-altering-substances/?hl=shield#entry496752

 

When the Shield Breaks (from a shamanistic point of view) (references removed)

 

This article explores the processes by which various psychological states may arise within the human mind. The analysis is conducted within the context of historical information gathered from organizations that have put forth substantially constructed theories. These theories have been obtained though careful observation, close self-examination and rigorous experimentation.

 

We start with the premise that the human mind is a 'focal point' in consciousness and that it exists within a particular reality. This reality is the world that we currently live in.

 

'Reason' is one position of the focal point [ref].

 

The mind has constructed for itself and pre-posesses, to some degree, a specific personality. The mind does, by its own conditioning, perceive this world in a particular way. The human mind is mostly 'fixed' in its psychological condition and the way in which it perceives this reality and it generally, does not deviate from its position throughout the lifetime of the individual, i.e., it is mostly invulnerable to the many influences that surround it and to those it has generated from within itself.

 

Everyone is born invulnerable [ref].

 

Invulnerability is a term used to describe a person who has a stable emotional and mental state and possesses an operational, psychological shield. The shield operates during childhood and continues, for the most part, throughout adult life. We all have this shield. The shield acts as a protector against a number of influences. These influences can stem from our own internal, mental dialogue or come from other peoples attitudes and opinions towards ourselves. As well as giving us mental and emotional stability, the shield allows us to fix our attention (our focal point in consciousness) on the here and now. When the shield breaks, however, we become susceptible. Other peoples' attitudes an thoughts about ourselves and our own thoughts and opinions (both conscious and sub-conscious) will affect us to a greater degree than usual. Even environmental factors become further exaggerated and these will exert a greater influence over our thoughts, feelings and emotions. In other words, we become vulnerable. This allows our focal point the ability to shift much further away from its usual position.

 

The shield can be broken in a numbers of ways. These can be both intentional and unintentional. Psychological trauma (e.g. extreme stress or abuse), excessive drug use, having children, deleterious foods/chemicals, and some forms of meditation can break the shield.

 

Once the shield is broken, it is broken irreversibly [ref].

 

Inducing a minute shift in the focal point with a broken or diminished shield, will cause the focal point to continue to shift more and more over time [ref]. This time frame can be from days to years.

 

Depression is a shift in the position of the focal point.

 

Bipolar syndrome is a continual shift in the position of the focal point (i.e., a shift between happiness and sadness)

 

Severe shifts of the focal point can move a person into other sub-conscious and dream-like states.

 

Having a 'broken' or diminished shield and a shifting focal point can cause insanity [ref].

 

Having a 'broken' or diminished shield and a shifting focal point can produce a terrible fatigue such as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (i.e., the person habitually focusing on themselves is a position of the focal point) [ref].

 

Some sects or religious groups break the shield as a matter of strategy [ref]. They do, however, have a system of behavioral techniques to fall back on for protection. This includes the creation of temporary, artificial shields [ref] and others:-

 

(1) One technique is through a specific type of exertion (or giving service) [ref].

(2) Another technique is by a positional suspension of the entire human body [ref]. This can reposition the focal point away from Depression [ref] and cure other maladies such as obsessions.

(3) The recapitulation is another technique [ref].

(4) The art of controlled folly (practicing mindfulness) is another [ref].

 

 

 

 

 

Blessings of Protection

:wub: :wub: :wub:

 

Some interesting material Chegg, but why remove references?

[chegg]

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Edited March 28, 2015 by chegg

[ThisLife]

*

Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.

*

Edited February 9, 2014 by ThisLife