Simple_Jack Posted February 8, 2014 Wow u agreed mahayana path is bodhisattva path 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted February 8, 2014 Anyway back to the "burning" type of quote from OP, it sounded to me like he was coming from a mis-view of Buddhist teachings (which I'm not qualified to go into except to point to general and publically available doctrine) thus I'll leave off my foray here and defer to the practicing and well rounded Buddhists to address his quote directly (if you will?) besides addressing it only through some debate or comparisons in doctrine... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 8, 2014 Asunthatneversets, How do your quotes have anything to do with eightfold path? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asunthatneversets Posted February 8, 2014 Asunthatneversets, How do your quotes have anything to do with eightfold path? Right view and conduct are a crucial foundation for all paths to (and means of accomplishing) buddhahood. You seem to be taking the eightfold path very literally. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 8, 2014 Yes much of Dudjom Rinpoche's book talks about conduct. And? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asunthatneversets Posted February 8, 2014 Yes much of Dudjom Rinpoche's book talks about conduct. And? Yes, conduct among other things. You stated on the previous page that the eightfold path was extraneous and irrelevant to Mahāyāna and Mahāmudrā however if you examine the principles of the eightfold path and apply them within the context of Mahāyāna and/or any other path within the buddhadharma, they are the foundation for those paths as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 8, 2014 Yes, conduct among other things. You stated on the previous page that the eightfold path was extraneous and irrelevant to Mahāyāna and Mahāmudrā however if you examine the principles of the eightfold path and apply them within the context of Mahāyāna and/or any other path within the buddhadharma, they are the foundation for those paths as well. Eightfold Path doesn't "own" view and conduct. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asunthatneversets Posted February 8, 2014 Eightfold Path doesn't "own" view and conduct. The eightfold path "is" view and conduct, and those principles span the yānas, according with the view of each. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) You are free to follow Eightfold Path. I follow Mahayana-Bodhisattva path, since I have the motivation to achieve samyaksambuddhahood so that I may benefit infinite sentient beings. Edited February 8, 2014 by RongzomFan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asunthatneversets Posted February 8, 2014 The same principles, same themes, same intent, runs through all the yānas, curtailed to fit the capacity of those involved with each. The paths themselves may differ in their approaches, but those underlying principles, themes and intent never wavers. Ergo if you can see what the eightfold path is pointing to, you can see the eightfold path in any of the teachings of the buddhadharma. The same way, if you view any teaching of the buddhadharma, you can likewise see it within the eightfold path. The details may differ and fluctuate, but the underlying theme and intent is the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 8, 2014 The same principles, same themes, same intent, runs through all the yānas, curtailed to fit the capacity of those involved with each. Not at all. Shravakayana lacks bodhicitta. Only Mahayana has bodhicitta Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asunthatneversets Posted February 8, 2014 You are free to follow Eightfold Path. I follow Bodhisattva path, since I have the motivation to achieve samyaksambuddhahood so that I may benefit infinite sentient beings. And therein is found the eightfold path, with the minor differences curtailed to the needs of the Mahāyāna view. For example the division of prajñā concerning right view and intention, the only difference would be the treatment of the intention, which would be the bodhisattva ideal. So the same theme is present in the division of prajñā, which is; right view and right intention. Buddha Śākyamuni never intended for the example of the path itself to be fixated upon in a rigid way, but intended for the central themes and views to be malleable so that they can match the capacity of the individual or vehicle concerned. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asunthatneversets Posted February 8, 2014 Not at all. Shravakayana lacks bodhicitta. Only Mahayana has bodhicitta Which fall under the category of 'right intention' in the eightfold path. Therefore correct intention is maintained in whatever form it takes, and the underlying principles stand. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted February 9, 2014 You are free to follow Eightfold Path. I follow Mahayana-Bodhisattva path, since I have the motivation to achieve samyaksambuddhahood so that I may benefit infinite sentient beings. Alwayson, There is a certain amount of common sense concerning Buddhism and Buddhist doctrines regardless of all the profound books you read and people you quote. (and like to argue about) I'd say that many of the Buddhist principles are not rocket science even to those of us who are not Buddhists. (of this or that school) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 9, 2014 Alwayson, There is a certain amount of common sense concerning Buddhism and Buddhist doctrines regardless of all the profound books you read and people you quote. (and like to argue about) I'd say that many of the Buddhist principles are not rocket science even to those of us who are not Buddhists. (of this or that school) Bodhisattva path and bodhicitta are not rocket science. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted February 9, 2014 Bodhisattva path and bodhicitta are not rocket science. Since it seems that no one is getting through to you (about the related principals of the 8 FP) one could take it that what several Buddhists are simply pointing out is like rocket science in your case. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Since it seems that no one is getting through to you (about the related principals of the 8 FP) one could take it that what several Buddhists are simply pointing out is like rocket science in your case. I understand the Bodhisattva path and bodhicitta are distasteful to you 3bob. I get it. Edited February 9, 2014 by RongzomFan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) More books which contrast Eightfold Path with the Bodhisattva Path: http://books.google.com/books?id=CIFzNjVEYVgC&pg=PA139&dq=prescriptions+to+follow+the+Eightfold+path+arhat+Bodhisattva&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0hH3UpuxCqrJygHY9oGoBA&ved=0CDkQuwUwAA#v=onepage&q=prescriptions%20to%20follow%20the%20Eightfold%20path%20arhat%20Bodhisattva&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=pCHvfGyBtf4C&pg=PA52&dq=Eightfold+path+arahant+Bodhisattva&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8w_3UvPCF8K0yAGS64DoBA&ved=0CCsQuwUwADgU#v=onepage&q=Eightfold%20path%20arahant%20Bodhisattva&f=false Edited February 9, 2014 by RongzomFan 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) I understand the Bodhisattva path and bodhicitta are distasteful to you 3bob. I get it. Sadly and strangely I don't think you get "it" very well... Edited February 9, 2014 by 3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 9, 2014 Sadly and strangely I don't think you get "it" very well... My Andhra people invented Mahayana in the first place. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana#Earliest_Mah.C4.81y.C4.81na_s.C5.ABtras Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted February 9, 2014 Since you like quotes so much this is an excerpt from the one you gave a link for: Expedient means Main article: Upaya "Expedient means (Skt. upāya) is found in the Lotus Sutra, one of the earliest dated Mahāyāna sūtras, and is accepted in all Mahāyāna schools of thought. It is any effective method that aids awakening. It does not necessarily mean that some particular method is "untrue" but is simply any means or stratagem that is conducive to spiritual growth and leads beings to awakening and nirvana. Expedient means could thus be certain motivational words for a particular listener or even the noble eightfold path itself. Basic Buddhism (what Mahāyāna would term śravakayāna or pratyekabuddhayāna) is an expedient method for helping people begin the noble Buddhist path and advance quite far. But the path is not wholly traversed, according to some Mahāyāna schools, until the practitioner has striven for and attained Buddhahood for the liberation of all other sentient beings from suffering." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 9, 2014 That whole paragraph is unreferenced. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) That whole paragraph is unreferenced. I would think that whole paragraph would make common sense to most any Buddhist from any school...(just in case is there anyone else here that wants to refute that or agree with it?) Besides and remember it is also from a link that you gave as an authority or source. Edited February 9, 2014 by 3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 9, 2014 I would think that whole paragraph would make common sense to most any Buddhist from any school...(just in case is there anyone else here that wants to refute that or agree with it?) Besides and remember it is also from a link that you gave as an authority or source. You guys don't understand Wikipedia. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 9, 2014 Besides and remember it is also from a link that you gave as an authority or source. No, I linked to specific paragraph so that you can read the references and do your own independent research. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
