Techniques To Condense/Compress Your Dan Tien?

[dawei]

Funky. Does he refer to this as turtle breathing?

 

Turtle and Buffalo position...

 

Realize his practices of 'packing' cover the LDT and beyond... think: Iron Shirt.

 

As you can surmise, these are specific practices.

[Wells]

Dorian, you must have found some better videos too?

 

OK I'm curious, how do the Chia methods in the vids above direct and compress energy in the ldt?

 

I edited the post and uploaded the full course!

[BaguaKicksAss]

I edited the post and uploaded the full course!

 

I meant... by other people... who's teachings aren't known for damaging people....

 

I was trying to be polite...

[BaguaKicksAss]

Turtle and Buffalo position...

 

Realize his practices of 'packing' cover the LDT and beyond... think: Iron Shirt.

 

As you can surmise, these are specific practices.

 

I was curious, not seen the turtle breathing done that way before. (though I'd not seen the Bruce Frantzis version before either). Neat.

[dawei]

I meant... by other people... who's teachings aren't known for damaging people....

 

I was trying to be polite...

 

Well... take each practice on its own to some degree.

 

His 'semen retention' practices is what is usually cited as 'damaging people'. I am not sure I have heard that regarding his other practices or 'packing' practices. Maybe Dorian can share something though.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Well... take each practice on its own to some degree.

 

His 'semen retention' practices is what is usually cited as 'damaging people'. I am not sure I have heard that regarding his other practices or 'packing' practices. Maybe Dorian can share something though.

 

The guy pissing blood was doing his iron vest stuff.

[dawei]

The guy pissing blood was doing his iron vest stuff.

 

That does not mean Chia is necessarily wrong... It hard to know when the practice is simply not understood well enough.

 

These advanced practices are not intended for weekend warriors.

 

Energy work like packing can be dangerous if you don't know what your packing and why and where what to do with the excess... but I hear you

[Wells]

The guy pissing blood was doing his iron vest stuff.

 

According to Kostas' thetaobums interview some time ago, pissing blood means that you succeeded in severing one of the chords of the tantien:

http://pammachon.gr/index.php/en/articles/item/46-kostas-taobums-interview

 

This means: Grandmaster Chia's stuff is top notch!

Edited February 7, 2014 by Dorian Black

[BaguaKicksAss]

That does not mean Chia is necessarily wrong... It hard to know when the practice is simply not understood well enough.

 

These advanced practices are not intended for weekend warriors.

 

Energy work like packing can be dangerous if you don't know what your packing and why and where what to do with the excess... but I hear you

 

Yeah he'd only been practicing for 10 years before doing them...

 

Just too many people have gotten messed up, IMO.

 

Here's the two main threads about his practices:

 

a. http://thetaobums.com/topic/30104-mantak-chias-iron-shirt;-good-or-bad-practice (mostly against)

b. http://thetaobums.com/topic/31582-mantak-chia-the-best-taoist-teacher-on-this-planet-exemplifying-all-the-qualities-we-should-expect-from-an-enlightened-master (mostly for)

[Wells]

The HT stuff is surely informative, but I posted it with an ironic underetone.

The OP of the thread asked what exercise we do for condensing chi and gave many examples including some that caused my to raise my eyebrow!

 

Therefore I posted Chia's stuff because as far as I remember Chia's opinion, all these possibilities plus perhaps twenty more work great for condensing chi into tan tien.

 

Yep, that was mean!

 

In my honest opinion, I'm only convinced of one exercise for that purpose:

 

 

And for the record:

I personally wouldn't recommend HT practices like "using the million $ point", "packing chi with breath holding" or "blowing the shen baby out of the head".

Edited February 7, 2014 by Dorian Black

[thamosh]

Mantak Chia?

 

Not good gong fu.

 

Let me explain

 

In real gong fu sects they have grand masters (meaning the one and only true master of the system).

 

Ill explain why that's important later.

 

So what im seeing is techniques for kidney breathing, bone breathing and so on but none of that is gong fu.

 

In a sect or school that teaches the authentic gong for achievement. One would first learn a kung fu form that streches the tendons builds the root and circulates the chi.

 

Now if the student learns nothing else and just that form he might get ging and so forth possibly if he practices that from diligently.

 

So this student might add some chikung to his form practice to give his form a more of a kick.

 

But that still isnt authentic kung fu.

 

Now if the student learns a slightly more advance form that focus the chi the ldt and compresses the chi in the spine and the hands. Now the student will generate ging and so on.

 

The student progresses and lets the next advance kung fu form. This form builds and strengthens the middle dantian (all his sifu might say is the form brings about courage and a greater connection people), flows the mco, builds more ging and so on.

 

The student progress to a more advance form that cultivates the upper dantian, stimulates the shen, cultivates the iron body, increases chi flow, and generates a stronger field of energy around the body.

 

This is more of the idea of how authentic kung fu works.

 

Now there is a difference between student knowledge, instructor knowledge, sifu knowledge, successor knowledge, and Grandmaster knowledge.

 

The Grandmaster holds the highest gong fu knowledge of the sect and keeps some of it back and is only passed on to his successor.

 

This knowledge is power and this knowledge is used to keep the instructors and sifus inline.

[Wells]

Master Pain's training method is surely the best at all for condensing chi into tantien, into the bone marrow and into the fascia!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2014 by Dorian Black

[BaguaKicksAss]

Mantak Chia?

 

Not good gong fu.

 

Let me explain

 

In real gong fu sects they have grand masters (meaning the one and only true master of the system).

 

Ill explain why that's important later.

 

So what im seeing is techniques for kidney breathing, bone breathing and so on but none of that is gong fu.

 

In a sect or school that teaches the authentic gong for achievement. One would first learn a kung fu form that streches the tendons builds the root and circulates the chi.

 

Now if the student learns nothing else and just that form he might get ging and so forth possibly if he practices that from diligently.

 

So this student might add some chikung to his form practice to give his form a more of a kick.

 

But that still isnt authentic kung fu.

 

Now if the student learns a slightly more advance form that focus the chi the ldt and compresses the chi in the spine and the hands. Now the student will generate ging and so on.

 

The student progresses and lets the next advance kung fu form. This form builds and strengthens the middle dantian (all his sifu might say is the form brings about courage and a greater connection people), flows the mco, builds more ging and so on.

 

The student progress to a more advance form that cultivates the upper dantian, stimulates the shen, cultivates the iron body, increases chi flow, and generates a stronger field of energy around the body.

 

This is more of the idea of how authentic kung fu works.

 

Now there is a difference between student knowledge, instructor knowledge, sifu knowledge, successor knowledge, and Grandmaster knowledge.

 

The Grandmaster holds the highest gong fu knowledge of the sect and keeps some of it back and is only passed on to his successor.

 

This knowledge is power and this knowledge is used to keep the instructors and sifus inline.

 

Before all that even are the ever awesome "warm ups" .

[BaguaKicksAss]

Master Pain's training method is surely the best at all for condensing chi into tantien, into the bone marrow and into the fascia!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Too funny lol.

 

Though you do get more and more impervious to being hit over time, it's kinda neat.

[Wells]

Too funny lol.

 

Though you do get more and more impervious to being hit over time, it's kinda neat.

 

Yup! And it helps with retention!

[SonOfTheGods]

How does a turtle breathe......??? Please describe...!!!

 

with his nose ... or

 

 

Can Turtles Breathe through Their Butts?

 

 

Turtles normally breathe through their lungs. But some turtles also have an opening at the base of their tail called a cloaca. The cloaca may allow oxygen to pass to the turtle while submerged. You can find more information here: http://www.turtlecare.net/breath.html

http://www.ask.com/question/can-turtles-breathe-through-their-butts

Edited February 8, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[SonOfTheGods]

I like to hear it form him in his own words if no one minds....???

not exactly my own words lol but will suffice

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYGMJWydnQ8

[thelerner]

 

Can Turtles Breathe through Their Butts?

 

Turtles normally breathe through their lungs. But some turtles also have an opening at the base of their tail called a cloaca. The cloaca may allow oxygen to pass to the turtle while submerged. You can find more information here: http://www.turtlecare.net/breath.html

http://www.ask.com/question/can-turtles-breathe-through-their-butts

Thank you, very useful if my turtle ever needs mouth to butt resuscitation.

or

If the little girl next door ever says 'Oh no my turtle isn't breathing',

I'll know to pick it up and blow up its ass.

Edited February 8, 2014 by thelerner

[SonOfTheGods]

This turned into a highly informative thread- thanks TaoBums

[SonOfTheGods]

I don't really condense/compress much nowdays, as I did all this more than a 1/4 century ago.

Right around 25 years ago, my Kundalini popped, so I felt no need to keep at it.

 

Once in awhile though, I must confess-

I COMPRESS

 

 

The way I "condensed" was this way:

 

Franz Bardon has a technique called Volting.

He often refers to certain fluid/elixirs as "Condenser" - so he was aware.

 

Volting is more like fusing yin/yang together.

 

 

instinctively, I had one heel under my perineum, and keep tighting up and squeezing, similar to triangle breathing.

 

Triangle breathing- not inhale hold exhale hold, rather, this one: LDT, perineum, mingmen.

 

Once I felt heat, I knew I was going in the right direction.

 

Nowdays, it is generally pore and/or bone breathing

Edited February 8, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[Trunk]

1. Healing Tao cautions. (TTBs thread accessible to members only)

2. Essential reading external link: (available to anyone on the www) Essays/posts by 5 different Healing Tao instructors cautioning about the "Healing Love" and "Iron Shirt 1: Packing Breathing" practices within that system.

[thamosh]

Authentic kung fu is where its at.

 

Check it.

 

Quoted from here http://www.redjademartialarts.com/view.php?&articleid=26⊂=Drunken

 

"The Eight Shadow style of Drunken boxing has many underlying theories that drive the practitioner to generate power, remain grounded or rooted and combat opponents effectively. It is defined in a numerological progression based on the eight trigrams (bagua) five elements (wuxing) and so on. Each number has to do with different aspects or energies of the style. To truly master the style you have to understand each of these keywords and energies and put them into your practice. The drunken forms are filled with movements that train all of them in applicable ways, without these energies however the drunken forms become a dance that can be used in combat only minimally and without anywhere near the full potential of the style.

The progression is as follows:

8 Shadows 7 Stars 6 Harmonies 5 Elements 4 Soft Hands 3 Powers 2 Minds 1 Dantien

Dantien

The first and most important thing in martial arts movement is the connection of the entire body to the Dantien. In order to fully connect the body one must understand the Dantien and its relationship to physical movement. The only way to accomplish this connection is with the use of the minds intent and a will to understand the inner workings of the body’s energy more deeply. Dantien is also referred to as the Dan, the yellow courtyard, the internal elixir, the jade pill, etc.

The Dantien is located about three finger widths or cun below the navel and another three cun into the body. Now this is common knowledge however it is the true connection to the point in the body one must accomplish, merely understanding its location is not enough. The Dantien is the storage facility of the body’s qi, like a battery. Qi that is gained through post-natal means is brought to the Dantien and stored for use in various bodily functions. Qi is brought to the Dantien post-natal through breathing in air, eating food, drinking water and qigong practice. The more healthfully we eat, drink, and take care of ourselves with regular qigong practice or other internal neidan methods like Taiji, Bagua, Xingyi, Lohanquan or meditation the more qi we will store in Dantien and the longer healthier lives we will lead as a result.

The Dantien is also connected to the process of transforming Jing, Qi & Shen within our bodies. However as this is a book on drunken boxing we will stick to the relevance of the Dantien to martial movement and connectivity.

Cross section of Dantien

The Dantien is seen differently at different levels of understanding and training. Here I will present the levels applicable to the Drunken Style and those alone.

Level One

At the beginning of your training the Dantien should be seen as a ball of energy located below the navel. It glows with a bright light and when gazed upon with sincerity, shows a round spherical shape to it.

Level Two

Now the Dantien has been worked with for many months or even years and its movement is free and unhindered (see the section on Dantien movement). Now the practitioner begins to feel a vibration like quality before the Dantien itself moves. When the minds intent reaches the Dantien it begins to vibrate as though something within the sphere was moving, which is exactly the case. The Dantien is made of two balls fitted tightly within the outer sphere that rotate freely following the mind intent.

When the vibration is felt the practitioner should meditate on the three questions of Dantien: what does Dantien look like? What does it sound like? What does it feel like? A repeated effort trying to examine Dantien will allow the student to look inside the sphere to see the two medicine balls rotating freely following the mind intent. This then becomes the source of body movement as it precedes the movement of the outer sphere of Dantien. The inner spheres begin to rotate and this causes the outer sphere to rotate in the same path which is then connected to the body.

 

Body Movement and Dantien

The body must be seen as a series of interconnected gears. The central gear or cog to this whole machine is the Dantien at whatever level it is perceived. The mind must first connect to the Dantien and instruct it to rotate then causing the body to rotate and follow its direction. So for example if the Dantien rotates left the left hip will begin to move backwards and the right hip forwards which then will cause the entire body to move.

If the body moves before the Dantien then internal connection is not present and the power generated by the body will be external primarily in nature. The body must learn to move from the inside out to the extremities. Even if at first you cannot feel the Dantien and it has not become a real place in your body to you, you must attempt over and over to connect to it and move from it. With time and training the connection will be made to Dantien and its movement. See the section on the six harmonies for more information and detail on the movement of the body in relation to Dantien.

Mind Intent and Dantien

The mind must be the commander in the body, where the minds intent is placed the qi will follow. When it comes to the Dantien and its movement it is the place of the mind to clearly command the Dantien to rotate in the specific manner that is needed. A few examples of the different rotations of Dantien and the corresponding movements follow, in text this is a hard thing to understand so study this idea thoroughly.

Black Tiger Steals Heart Punch

This is more commonly known as the reverse punch in most martial arts and is a basic technique of nearly every style used to teach the beginnings of body connection. Here we will look at a punch with the right hand and the rotation of the Dantien to create power. The right hand begins at the hip of the person about to punch. The mind instructs the Dantien to rotate to the left, beginning its movement it transfers energy to the hips which rotate the right hip forward. This in turn will begin the spine twisting the same direction causing the right shoulder to begin to move in a forward direction. The shoulder then transfers energy down to the elbow and hand shooting it out from the hip and into the target. The recoil should be done after the punch in exact reverse, beginning with the Dantien rotating to the left to draw the hand back in.

Dantien & The Wine Vessel

Once the practitioner has connected to Dantien and movement is initiated with its movement taking direction from the mind intent the perception of its make up can change once again. The idea of the Dantien as a wine vessel or Gourd (a hollowed out melon used as a canteen in old China) does not take the place of the above descriptions and training methods, it merely adds to the use and connection of the body to the Dan.

The Gourd was widely in use in old times as a vessel for transporting liquids of all kinds, wine among them. Now the wine vessel in the body (Dantien) is never quite full in the practitioners mind, this always allows room for more internal training and building of qi or to continue with the analogy wine. The rotation of the inner Dantien will cause the wine to gain momentum as though one were to take a half full wine vessel and shake and spin it about. This creates centrifugal force from the sloshing of the wine against the sides of the vessel creating potential energy for the body to harness."

 

This is all kung fu.......

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

This is makin' my head spin.

 

Dan tien is gyroscope.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Laithwaite

...

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

This is more commonly known as the reverse punch in most martial arts and is a basic technique of nearly every style used to teach the beginnings of body connection. Here we will look at a punch with the right hand and the rotation of the Dantien to create power. The right hand begins at the hip of the person about to punch. The mind instructs the Dantien to rotate to the left, beginning its movement it transfers energy to the hips which rotate the right hip forward. This in turn will begin the spine twisting the same direction causing the right shoulder to begin to move in a forward direction. The shoulder then transfers energy down to the elbow and hand shooting it out from the hip and into the target. The recoil should be done after the punch in exact reverse, beginning with the Dantien rotating to the left to draw the hand back in.

 

I still remember learning this technique from a comic strip entitled "Shang Chi, Master of Kung Fu" that was published by marvel comics.

 

It was a single page of drawings and accompanying text with Shang Chi showing his loyal readers how to do some real kung fu.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shang-Chi

 

Ain't it great?

 

Just don't get me started on Kung Fu, The Water Margin, or Monkey.

...

[ChiDragon]

A turtle breathes once above the water surface and can stay under water for eight minutes, then comes up for more air. If I remember this correctly...!!!

 

It seems, to me, the only thing that one can learn from a turtle is learn to hold the breath as long as one can. Something like: inhale, hold, exhale and repeat as someone has suggested. This is seems to be more practical and makes more sense other than fantasizing in using other fanatic methods about turtle breathing.

Edited February 8, 2014 by ChiDragon