"No one likes to be judged..."

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

 

Beyond prejudice and preference,

Doth lie the Native Intelligence!

...

[Marblehead]

I have no desire to drop my preferences. No, I think that is going a little too far with the concept.

 

Beyond good and evil? No, we won't talk about that here.

[4bsolute]

"Yet everyone likes to judge..."

 

Let's explore this topic!

 

When we judge another individual, we put him or her in an energetic cage. In a frame. This is felt by everyone of us. It is felt as a prison.

 

I alwas picture it really as a cage around oneself. To me it feels like it. One has to climb out of this cage, once one feels an affection to the 'spell' of the other individual through this judging.

 

In my eyes it can be cathegorized as 'dark magic'. Even tho we have created images of 'angels' judging 'righteously' which is COMPLETE and UTTER nonsense.

 

Why do we judge? Our view on things vs the other's view on things. Our must always rule supreme. Monkey mind.

 

Every view on reality IS valid. Without exception. Everyone is in a unique perspective.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Though Mind sets Good and Bad apart,

Unconditionally loves the Heart.

...

[Marblehead]

 

 

...

Though Mind sets Good and Bad apart,

Unconditionally loves the Heart.

...

Exactly why I don't use the word "love" very often.

 

 

Edit to correct the spelling of the word "very" from "bery".

Edited February 9, 2014 by Marblehead

[Stosh]

...

Though Mind sets Good and Bad apart,

Unconditionally loves the Heart.

...

I think my heart..if not seperated by mind.. has its own set of parameters .which affect my responses to things..like anger.So I think the presented quote has an inherent bias.

The unconditional aspect is artifact of this erroneous subdivision of human nature into "nice" and not nice". My cat as an object lesson ,demonstrates that to be mindless, doesnt mean one is unconditonally accepting or embracing.She is quite complete even without the mental abstractions of humans. Do you not observe this to be true ? Or have the abstractions of theists become so embroiled with your conceptualizations that you would continue to incorporate them EVEN as you are trying to search your soul ?

 

 

 

[Stosh]

Exactly why I don't use the word "love" very often.Edit to correct the spelling of the word "very" from "bery".

Whats up with the little edit notes I have been seeing?

[Marblehead]

Whats up with the little edit notes I have been seeing?

I just wanted to let everyone know that I am still making typos but every now and again I see them immediately and correct them before others have seen them.

[Stosh]

Without exception. Everyone is in a unique perspective.

No thats not really true. If it was ,then you would have to agree with me , which you dont . Thats just a patronizing platitude to get people to stop arguing. "yes yes youre right too." and its bad in that it makes it even harder to correct errors. Just accept when youre wrong.

[Stosh]

I just wanted to let everyone know that I am still making typos but every now and again I see them immediately and correct them before others have seen them.

Thats very nice of you , keep up the good work.

[idiot_stimpy]

Is it violent to judge others?

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

It does violence to both self and other, perhaps.

...

[Marblehead]

Yes, I think it does cause violence, if only in the mind, when one is judged unfairly.

[Songtsan]

Yeah its fun to speculate .. and yep too it can be fun to haul-off and let fly with unfair or poorly considered judjements just because it gets so tedious to keep making ' excuses ' for everybody when it doesnt seem to be coming your own way quite often enough. I like to do that best when Im driving. But , slowly , and quite to my surprise of late, is that somehow Im also having some fun by keeping my yap shut and letting some things just roll off my shoulders.. I cant explain it..Logically it doesnt seem to make sense to me.Im working on it becoming a habit as natural to me as sarcasm used to be. Some other day Ill come up with some long boring analysis of it ..but for now..Im not.

 

You are developing equanimity by not trying to develop it. The work is done, and you do no work!

[Songtsan]

I have no desire to drop my preferences. No, I think that is going a little too far with the concept.

 

Beyond good and evil? No, we won't talk about that here.

 

I think you can drop preferences, but still enjoy that which you once preferred. You simply aren't attached to it being there - so it's dropped, yet when it comes around, you enjoy the tasty treat.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

The unconditional aspect is artifact of this erroneous subdivision of human nature into "nice" and not nice". My cat as an object lesson ,demonstrates that to be mindless, doesnt mean one is unconditonally accepting or embracing.She is quite complete even without the mental abstractions of humans. Do you not observe this to be true ? Or have the abstractions of theists become so embroiled with your conceptualizations that you would continue to incorporate them EVEN as you are trying to search your soul ?

 

I think the short answer to that is probably, yes.

 

Man is the paragon of animals.

 

It behoves him to seek the higher.

 

A cat may be completely a cat.

 

To be completely a human is a taller order.

 

Does a dog have buddha nature?

 

Dog s**t!

...

Edited February 9, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[Marblehead]

 

You simply aren't attached to it being there - so it's dropped, yet when it comes around, you enjoy the tasty treat.

Good response. I think I can honestly say that I am not attached to most of my preferences. Mostly only when I am home do I remain attached to them and here it effects no one else. When I go out I do still prefer my preferences but will go with whatever flow I need to follow at the time.

[Rara]

Surely judging is unavoidable? An opinion is always formed no matter what...

 

That's why we eat some foods and not others. Or watch some TV shows and not others etc etc. Without judgement, surely we would be lifeless....

 

(I take this angle right now because I have explored being non-judgmental for very long time and feel that the idea is milked to the point in which people flog themselves as soon as they believe they have judged someone or something. At the moment, I subscribe to a more gentle approach of not condemning people in my own mind for not meeting my expectations)

[z00se]

i dont think judging causes violence, racism or even wrongly or negatively judging people. All these things are internal the person being judged doesnt even know, even if you have racial hate. The problem only comes when we dont treat others with respect. Respect is all that is required and then all judgements are fine

[BaguaKicksAss]

Jane Elliot is a teacher and diversity trainer who developed the "Blue Eyes/Brown Eyes" exercise to teach students what it feels like to be a person of color. This video begins pretty abruptly, where one of the students who's been singled out based on eye color is extremely frustrated.

 

At 2:46, Elliot explains why she keeps going even after she's made the point. At 3:35, she delivers an important message. And at 10:05, you may laugh a little, but I think you'll really get it.

 

Many years ago, I could have been the girl who walked out, not understanding how this feels to the people it affects. I'm glad that's no longer the case

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=neEVoFODQOE

 

 

A partial transcript from a very powerful portion of the video, beginning at 3:19:

 

Elliot: “No. You don’t come back in here until you’ve apologized to every person in this room because you just exercised a freedom that none of these people of color have. When these people of color get tired of racism, they can’t just walk out because there’s no place in this country where they aren’t going to be exposed to racism. They can’t even stay in their own homes and not be exposed to racism if they turn on their television. But you, as a white female, when you get tired of being judged and treated unfairly on the basis of your eye color, you can walk out that door, and you know it won’t happen out there. You exercised a freedom they don’t have. If you’re going to be in here, you’re going to apologize to every black person in this room. And do it now ... and every person of color.”

 

Student: “I’m sorry there’s racism in this country..."

 

Elliot: “Bullshit! No, you’re not going to say ‘I’m sorry there’s racism.’ You’re going to apologize for what you just did.”

 

Student: “I will not apologize because it’s not a matter of race always...”

 

Elliot: “Out.”

[z00se]

mmm yeah i hate meant to watch that for a while. Tonight!

[nestentrie]

Me, I just have to wonder what judgement is. It's an old trope but let me see if i can get away with pulling up a dictionary definition...

Here's what google says:

judgement

ˈdʒʌdʒm(ə)nt/

noun

noun:

judgment

1. 1
   .
   the ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions.
   "an error of judgement"

   synonyms:

   discernment, acumen, shrewdness, astuteness, common sense, good sense, sense, perception, perspicacity, percipience, penetration, acuity, discrimination, wisdom, wit, native wit, judiciousness, prudence, sagacity, understanding, intelligence, awareness, canniness, sharpness, sharp-wittedness, cleverness, powers of reasoning, reason, logic; More

   informal nous, savvy, know-how, horse sense, gumption, grey matter;

   informal common;informal smarts;rare sapience, arguteness

   "the incident showed the extent to which his temper could affect his judgement"

   in my opinion, to my mind, in my view, to my way of thinking, I believe, I think, as I see it, if you ask me, personally, in my book, for my money, in my estimation

   "in my judgement, such things should be forbidden"

   • an opinion or conclusion.
     plural noun:
     judgements
     ; plural noun:
     judgments
     "they make subjective judgements about children's skills"

   • a decision of a law court or judge.
     "county court judgements against individuals in debt"

     synonyms:

     verdict, decision, adjudication, ruling, pronouncement, decree, finding, conclusion, determination; More

     sentence

     "a county-court judgement"

2. 2
   .
   a misfortune or calamity viewed as a divine punishment.
   "the events of last week are a
   judgement on
   us for our sinful ways"

   synonyms:

   punishment, retribution, penalty;

So here we have two definitions. One seems to be of an intellectual, concrete type, while the other seems concerned with morality. Which are we interested in following? Maybe both are worth looking into.

Some synonyms given for the first definition are: discernment, common sense, and understanding. Taking up discernment; if I were to determine (and judge) that President Obama is African American would you agree with me? Now, there are some that wouldn't agree. There are some that regard the controversy and uncertainty of President Obama's Hawaiian birth grounds to question his legitimacy as a US citizen, therefore calling into question the American part of the African American designation. This would be, at face value, the discerning part of judgement.

Yet is this really the common sense approach? By Law, a President must be of US birth to be installed, so it would follow that he is at least American. Afterall, how could a nation and government of a nation go through such lengthy processes without knowing such a basic fact? How could they be so careless? How could they install (as some would have it), a Kenyan President? Putting aside issues of trust and recalcitrance it's safe we can assume that at least most concerned thought he was American.

So this leaves understanding doesn't it? (If we are to take my three choices as boons). What can we understand about the facts in relation to the claim I've made? We can understand that there is a lot of hastiness involved in controversy. Have I though, in my choice of the third example softened the criteria and veered a little? Perhaps I have, so let me address something else first.

Judgement is perception. Judgement is appraisal. Judgement is saying a thing is one thing and not another. It is a process of coming to know. It isn't impetuousness, and it isn't acquiescence. Wanting a thing to be one thing and not another is not the process of judgement. Things are as they are, it's just our body of awareness coming into contact with them that brings knowingness and finality.

So I guess from here we have to ask what we want of judgement. And to our example, what do we want from President Obama's racial and national status and identity? Is it that we want things that aren't yet a part of ourselves and our experiences to be so? A few good things that we can align ourselves with and enjoy, knowing in fullness that they are indeed good things? Do we want President Obama to be African American, like he says? The OP suggests, we don't like being judged, but we love to judge things for ourselves. So what is it?

It would be easy from here to take a boastful attitude. 'I judge to be good what I have chosen'. 'I judge President Obama to be African American, like he says he is, and I need no further evidence to account for the veracity of the claim.' It would be nice to have that certainty. But it probably wouldn't be prudent. So let's leave the first definition alone and address the second definition (but not leave alone our understanding just put it to the side for a moment).

 

The synonyms for the second definition are; punishment, penalty, and retribution. These are the moral aspects of our judgement. In coming to know something we know further whether it is good or bad; worthy of our praise or condemnation.

 

We shouldn't at this point have to endure a bad thing. If we've determined a thing to be bad, then our judgement not only says it's so, but lets it be so. We only find it easy to be sincere in our judgement.

 

So if the US government lied, and Obama lied, we'd be sure as shit knowing that it's a bad thing. It's not something we'd tolerate.

 

(----)

I don't know. I was typing up this post some hours ago and had most of it down. I had, compared to what is here, an extended set of arguments to do with boasting. Further than I linked it with sincerity and mercy. My computer crashed and i'd only been able to save some of the post. Coming in at the second definition second time around I just couldn't recall the details i'd put down. I'd remembered the course but none of the nuance. Quite frankly it put me off my game and left me at complete odds with how to complete the Obama example. But I'm tired now and i can't quite be fucked. Let me just finish with some statements.

(----)

 

Judgements are sincere, not fickle. Judgements are coming to knowing. The primary concern of judgement is to refuse our own quicknesses and oversimplifications; to be fair in how we appraise something. Some pretty basic sentiments, to be sure. But maybe someone else can chime in with further thoughts on the sincerity of a judgement, and how it would play to mercy. See, we like to judge because we like to be involved with people and things. Exclusion is not a primary motivation. We like to know the standard by which we like something. Much like the Obama example, we'd like to know that he's American, because he's the President of the US, and not a Kenyan. Truthfulness is just matter of course.