Of

[fatherpaul]

"It is the attachment to things that create a teaching. No attachment, no teaching."

 

so plainly put, who could not see the truth of this?

 

peace

paul

[zenbrook]

"It is the attachment to things that create a teaching. No attachment, no teaching."

 

so plainly put, who could not see the truth of this?

 

peace

paul

I guess the peril inherent with having anything to do with the truth is that we 'do not mistake understanding for realization, and do not mistake realization for liberation.'

 

Whilst I cannot argue with you, I do not yet think I have understood

 

Peace,

ZenB

[林愛偉]

I guess the peril inherent with having anything to do with the truth is that we 'do not mistake understanding for realization, and do not mistake realization for liberation.'

 

Whilst I cannot argue with you, I do not yet think I have understood

 

Peace,

ZenB

 

 

Here is what there is no understanding for;

 

Because there was no understanding of the teaching, there is another teaching that may be able

to point directly to the original nature.

 

See...? It is that there was a confusion, so there is that which is not confused. If that which is not confused, thinks " hey, I am not confused" then they are confused. hahahaha

It is the mind that knows no confusion, that resides in non confusion. But this knowing isn't the recognition of knowing, it is the Thusness where this knowing and confusion both reside.. hahaha

 

And yet, there was no residing.

 

The teaching gets clear and then fuzzy as it goes along. Just when you thought you got it, there is somthing else that pokes at the idea of a getting it.

 

 

Peace,

Aiwei

[fatherpaul]

I guess the peril inherent with having anything to do with the truth is that we 'do not mistake understanding for realization, and do not mistake realization for liberation.'

 

Whilst I cannot argue with you, I do not yet think I have understood

 

Peace,

ZenB

indeed it is not a matter of understanding

there is in actuallity no truth to see,

there is only seeing.

 

peace,

paul

[林愛偉]

indeed it is not a matter of understanding

there is in actuallity no truth to see,

there is only seeing.

 

peace,

paul

 

 

It is so much fun

[zenbrook]

It is so much fun

The mind that does not understand is the Buddha. There is no other.....

[beancurdturtle]

indeed it is not a matter of understanding

there is in actuallity no truth to see,

there is only seeing.

 

peace,

paul

Huzzah!

[三江源]

Practice as if all were coming. (Because) all is coming.

 

 

Xeno, what does that mean. I'm sorry to be obtuse. Would you clarify it for me?

 

thankyou.

[林愛偉]

The mind that does not understand is the Buddha. There is no other.....

 

 

And it is that mind which does not know not-understanding.

 

One is enlightened, but has not the mind of defilements, thus does not walk around saying to

everyone, "Look at me, I am enlightened". The being knows there is obviously a difference in mind, but

any claiming to it as one's own is false.

 

When one is enlightened, they "know" such mind. Yet it is not the knowing of defilements which

sees the original mind and says , "Thus"

 

 

Peace,

Aiwei

[fatherpaul]

no bhuddas

no mind

 

 

" the lake is still, the geese have all flown away"

[zenbrook]

no bhuddas

no mind

" the lake is still, the geese have all flown away"

You have said it, but do you understand it?

 

Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. The geese return year upon year.

 

Peace

ZenB

[fatherpaul]

You have said it, but do you understand it?

 

Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. The geese return year upon year.

 

Peace

ZenB

 

i do not understand it

 

the lake is rippled with goose droppings/

[zenbrook]

the lake is rippled with goose droppings/

no buddhas, no mind.

fatherpaul soars beyond sky,

i'm left treading dung

 

Peace

ZenB

[Pero]

No Buddhas, no mind.

Father Paul soars beyond the sky,

Zenbrook thinks of getting high.

 

[林愛偉]

no bhuddas

no mind

" the lake is still, the geese have all flown away"

-Father Paul

 

You have said it, but do you understand it?

Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. The geese return year upon year.

-Zenbrook

 

i do not understand it

the lake is rippled with goose droppings

-Father Paul

 

 

no buddhas, no mind.

fatherpaul soars beyond sky,

i'm left treading dung

 

Peace

ZenB

 

 

hahahahahahahaha

 

wonderful!

[三江源]

.

Edited April 9, 2016 by 三江源

[fatherpaul]

I have to say, gnomic utterances just dont do it for me, though I know it's easy and it's fun to play that way.

 

For me the power of the zen confounding of the rational mind worked in conjunction with the deeply rigorous discipline that the adepts were undergoing, with little food, little sleep, and not to mention being beaten with sticks whilst their logical minds were being starved out.

 

armchair zen is a whole different mind fuck.

 

 

"armchair zen is a whole different mind fuck."

 

i agree

 

"rigorous disipline, starvavtion and beating" however are not necessary.

peace and happy pancakes,

 

paul

[zenbrook]

armchair zen is a whole different mind fuck.

Brilliantly gnomic

 

I disagree, cat. Well, at least, I do if I understand you correctly. If I don't, my apologies in advance.

 

Assuming your statement contains at heart a hint of criticism, then I'd have to stand up and be counted in favor of 'armchair zen'. For many people, this represents their 'stage on the path' and perhaps it is unfair to disparage simply in order to accord with an elitist or dogmatic interpretation of what 'zen' should be. One person's zen, after all, is another person's useless navel-gazing and I've met plenty of professional meditators who would have done well to emphasize a little more kindness or simple awareness in their lives. I'd rather people were questioning their beliefs, reading about methods for opening and softening (and, yes, perhaps writing about what they have learned on internet forums), than rigidly adhering to any fixed mindset - whether loftily spiritual or not.

 

Do not be too quick to judge, I guess. I'm sure there are tao bums who have done, or are still doing, their time with regard to actual deeply rigorous discipline.

 

But, yes, gnomic utterances are fun - though not always as easy as they might appear (at least, not for this armchair-bound bum)

 

Peace,

ZenB

[beancurdturtle]

fixed mindset

If it's not fixed is it still a mindset?

Is it a mindset if it's not fixed?

Maybe that's when it becomes a "mind fuck."

[三江源]

If it's not fixed is it still a mindset?

Is it a mindset if it's not fixed?

Maybe that's when it becomes a "mind fuck."

 

 

excellent point!

[Ian]

I was reading last night, and enjoying the book (of which more in another thread) but also feeling a bit indulgent, in that I could have used the time to do something a little more embodifying.

 

So I started subvocalising the words as I read and making sure I could feel the vibrations of them in my body. This led to me using more peripheral vision (ongoing thanks for that one, freeform), making sure I focussed around the book as well as on it.

 

It was a whole different experience.

 

And I mention it, simply because it's one way to test the quality of gnomic utterances. Vibrate the words in your body. See what happens. It may be that some words are very rich in truth for those who say or type them and utterly without value for the recipient. Neither need be wrong.

[林愛偉]

I was reading last night, and enjoying the book (of which more in another thread) but also feeling a bit indulgent, in that I could have used the time to do something a little more embodifying.

 

So I started subvocalising the words as I read and making sure I could feel the vibrations of them in my body. This led to me using more peripheral vision (ongoing thanks for that one, freeform), making sure I focussed around the book as well as on it.

 

It was a whole different experience.

 

And I mention it, simply because it's one way to test the quality of gnomic utterances. Vibrate the words in your body. See what happens. It may be that some words are very rich in truth for those who say or type them and utterly without value for the recipient. Neither need be wrong.

 

 

One of the functions of a mantra is to vibrate within the body through recitation and breath. It works to raise the energy level of the body/mind, and erradicate sicknesses as well... given there is strong concentration;single minded concentration during the recitation.

 

That is only one of the functions.. Fun stuff eh?!

 

Peace,

Aiwei

[zenbrook]

If it's not fixed is it still a mindset?

Is it a mindset if it's not fixed?

Maybe that's when it becomes a "mind fuck."

Or maybe just unsatisfactory grammar

 

That being said, I'm not sure I'd go so far as to suggest a mindset - a habitual or characteristic mental attitude that determines how you will interpret and respond to situations - is necessarily fixed.... but I'm sure someone will tell me why I'm wrong!

 

QUOTE(Ian @ Jul 17 2007, 02:16 AM)

It may be that some words are very rich in truth for those who say or type them and utterly without value for the recipient.

And it may be that some words are utter bollocks however you look at it. Which is one reason I don't like to read over my old posts

 

Peace,

ZenB

[林愛偉]

Or maybe just unsatisfactory grammar

 

That being said, I'm not sure I'd go so far as to suggest a mindset - a habitual or characteristic mental attitude that determines how you will interpret and respond to situations - is necessarily fixed.... but I'm sure someone will tell me why I'm wrong!

And it may be that some words are utter bollocks however you look at it. Which is one reason I don't like to read over my old posts

 

Peace,

ZenB

 

 

hahahahahaha

 

reading over old posts.. hahaha