yabyum24 Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Wow. There's a first time for everything I guess. But I bet you'll have a peek nonetheless. In any case, it's obvious you were avoiding the question. Edited February 13, 2014 by yabyum24 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 13, 2014 For those wondering why tummo is practiced..... Dzogchen is a tantric system with winds, drops, channels etc. Why tummo wouldn't be practiced? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 13, 2014 I have no idea what Yascra and Yabyum24 meant by their gradualist spontaneous stuff. So I can't address that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Simple_Jack Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Actually I think that, if this guy wants to discuss things over here, he should get an account on himself instead of having others speak for him, you know, and speaking for someone who can't say anything towards this is actually not very fair towards this person. On the other hand, if you want to do some fan stuff, I'd recommend you to do this on this particular other board. Thanks in advance. I'm not attempting to speak for him, only pointing out, that the majority of his posts are from a perspective of differentiating the views and praxis of each vehicle, from the POV of each respective vehicle. I know this because I've been following his posts for a while; not for the sole reason of being his fanboy. Although, I totally understand how his posts can be upsetting especially to someone from a sutrayana background. Edited February 13, 2014 by Simple_Jack Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yascra Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Dzogchen is a tantric system with winds, drops, channels etc. Well, in this case I actually have a link for you. Ever heard of Dilgo Khyentse? http://www.nyingma.com/dzogchen1.htm The everyday practice of dzogchen is simply to develop a complete carefree acceptance, an openness to all situations without limit. [...] Simply plunging directly into meditation in the moment now, with our whole being, free from hesitation, boredom or excitement, is enlightenment. By the way ... with this teaching by him we're right back to topic.. and not a single word about rainbow bodies Edited February 13, 2014 by Yascra Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yascra Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) I totally understand how his posts can be upsetting especially to someone from a sutrayana background. Uhm, actually it doesn't. It bores me. Edit: But my background is not sutrayana, just for your information. My way was more like Typical Western culture -> Atheism -> Christianity -> -> Western Magic -> Vajrayana -> influences from Zen, Taoism, Esoteric Buddhism Western education in parallel. Something like this. Edited February 13, 2014 by Yascra Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Simple_Jack Posted February 13, 2014 Uhm, actually it doesn't. It bores me. It should be understood that these are merely rhetorical devices used to differentiate the views and praxis between various yanas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 13, 2014 It should be understood that these are merely rhetorical devices used to differentiate the views and praxis between various yanas. What do you mean by rhetorical devices? There is an actual difference in method. Karmamudra vs meditation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Simple_Jack Posted February 13, 2014 Well, in this case I actually have a link for you. Ever heard of Dilgo Khyentse? http://www.nyingma.com/dzogchen1.htm By the way ... with this teaching by him we're right back to topic.. and not a single word about rainbow bodies These are all just a rehashing of previously rehashed arguments on this board. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yabyum24 Posted February 13, 2014 I have no idea what Yascra and Yabyum24 meant by their gradualist spontaneous stuff. So I can't address that. That's fine RongzomFan. Nobody expects anyone else to have all the answers. If you don't understand, then don't worry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Simple_Jack Posted February 13, 2014 Rainbow body is no exception to this. Rainbow body = samyaksambuddhahood. You're not expected to believe in this though it cannot be denied that this is what all Mahayana paths aim for. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yabyum24 Posted February 13, 2014 For those wondering why tummo is practiced..... Dzogchen is a tantric system with winds, drops, channels etc. Why tummo wouldn't be practiced? Well, tummo along with the 6 yogas and various deities belong to the Anuttarayoga class of tantras. Dzogchen belongs to the Nyingma system. I'd always believed that they had their own unique tantric practices, which differentiated them from the Anuttarayoga. Rushan, tregchöd, Thödgal, Rigpa, Rainbow Body etc. Look at this link Dzogchen is considered a tantric system as opposed to sutra systems such as Zen. This is not to say that Dzogchen is a part of general Vajrayana. Vajrayana is a path of transformation. Dzogchen, an independent vehicle in its own right, is a path of self-liberation. See? That's what I mean. Where's the mention of tummo or karmamudra? And: Chögyal Namkhai Norbu relates that once someone asked the famous Dzogchen Master, Yungtön Dorje Pel, what his practice consisted of, and he replied with the negative “mepa” or “there isn’t.” Then his startled questioner asked again, “Then you don’t meditate?,” to which the Master replied, “And when am I ever distracted?” This is the essence of samaya in Dzogchen teaching: not to meditate or to practice something with the mind and yet never to be distracted, for one remains uninterruptedly in the self-perfection of the single state of rigpa or Truth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anderson Posted February 13, 2014 I think I did already ask you according to how many sutras you practiced till now, and I think you didn't answer, right? So .. how many Sutras did you READ, at least, before you concluded that you're much more qualified to judge some things than people who work with these? Did you ask yourself how many Sutras your other-board-source did read before drawing his conclusions? That are not theoretical things, you know. Being able to reflect such things is the foundation of correct contemplation practice. So it actually tells a LOT if s.thing like this does obviously never happen. So you are a sutra boy eh ? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 13, 2014 See? That's what I mean. Where's the mention of tummo or karmamudra? I myself wrote that verbatim in Wikipedia years ago. My knowledge has increased since then. You are quoting myself to myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yascra Posted February 13, 2014 Rainbow body = samyaksambuddhahood. You're not expected to believe in this though it cannot be denied that this is what all Mahayana paths aim for. Oh, I don't need to believe anything. I actually know what all paths aim for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 13, 2014 And: Again, I don't understand the purpose of this ChNN quote. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yabyum24 Posted February 13, 2014 I myself wrote that verbatim in Wikipedia years ago. My knowledge has increased since then. You are quoting myself to myself. So, what's changed since then? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 13, 2014 So, what's changed since then? That's just a useless sentence all around. Its just a way of classifying Dzogchen per Namkhai Norbu. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yascra Posted February 13, 2014 Again, I don't understand the purpose of this ChNN quote. Look, there are persons who contribute informations to discussions to allow a more complete view of the whole topic. It might seem strange to you, but not every post has some kind of a purpose in a more than obvious sense of trying to heighten duality or manipulate others in any way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yabyum24 Posted February 13, 2014 That's just a useless sentence all around. Its just a way of classifying Dzogchen per Namkhai Norbu. Okay, you're not going to say, so it's pointless me asking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 13, 2014 Look, there are persons who contribute informations to discussions to allow a more complete view of the whole topic. It might seem strange to you, but not every post has some kind of a purpose in a more than obvious sense of trying to heighten duality or manipulate others in any way. Are you and Yabyum24 the same person? Why are YOU telling me why he posted that quote? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 13, 2014 Okay, you're not going to say, so it's pointless me asking. I meant the sentence in Wikipedia is a useless sentence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yascra Posted February 13, 2014 No to the first ^^I dare to assume things, using my brain, and to me, it made great sense this way But I was really commenting on your post, not his. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 13, 2014 No to the first ^^ I dare to assume things, using my brain, and to me, it made great sense this way But I was really commenting on your post, not his. So you are saying another user, yabyum24, posted and highlighted a quote for no specific reason? And that makes "great sense"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) See? That's what I mean. Where's the mention of tummo or karmamudra If you are going to quote Wikipedia, what about the sentence before: "Dzogchen is considered a tantric system...." Edited February 13, 2014 by RongzomFan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
