Not all realizations are the same...

[Jeff]

While it is true that ultimately Tao/God/Emptiness are the same, it is not true that all paths lead to to the same level of clarity and realization of Tao/God/Emptiness.

 

Each lineage, tradition or teacher is like joining a "club". Each club has it's own "level" of clarity and energy in Tao/God/Emptiness. People and beings tend to naturally gravitate to the club that is appropriate for them at that time in their development.

 

Even one who has realized a "light body" is not done. Done is an illusion of mind. There is always ongoing clarity in Tao/God/Emptiness.

 

Best wishes.

[adept]

Jeff,

 

What about not being a member of a 'club' ?

Clubs, societies, lineages, traditions, religions, are all man-made constructs which often end in dispute, argument, threats, murder and all-out warfare.

What about a pathless path, where seekers rely on their own initiative and experiences, albeit sometimes with a little help from various sources ?

 

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

 

Best wishes.

[Jeff]

Jeff,

 

What about not being a member of a 'club' ?

Clubs, societies, lineages, traditions, religions, are all man-made constructs which often end in dispute, argument, threats, murder and all-out warfare.

What about a pathless path, where seekers rely on their own initiative and experiences, albeit sometimes with a little help from various sources ?

 

The tao that can be told

is not the eternal Tao

The name that can be named

is not the eternal Name.

 

Best wishes.

 

Hi Adept,

 

Ultimately the pathless path is the only path of the Tao. All paths are constructs of mind (or universal mind) and must be let go to realize the Tao. But, all that is experienced (and hence can be talked about) is of the mind, and the mind is always one with the Tao.

 

What can be experienced in the Tao is like a great ocean. Some snorkel in the ocean, while some scuba dive. Great masters (Buddha/Christ), first learn to lay at the bottom of the ocean, look up and see the wonder of the ocean. Then they can become the ocean.

 

If you don't mind, a question for you(and all)...

 

Is the spiritual process like a baby chick breaking out of an egg?... Or, a flower sprouting in the sun, also needing rain and good soil?

 

Best wishes to you also.

[3bob]

I'd say done is the loss of particular and limited attachments to "mind",

 

and in relation to that "illusion" is a highly abused term...

[Jeff]

I'd say done is the loss of particular and limited attachments to "mind",

 

and in relation to that "illusion" is a highly abused term...

 

Hi 3bob,

 

How can done be the "loss of particular and limited attachments"? Which attachments to mind do you keep? Why would one desire to keep some of them, but not others? Also, how does one know that they have not just released at a conscious level, but still still have deep subconscious fears and issues that they "thought" they had dropped?

 

Best wishes,

Jeff

[3bob]

Hello Jeff,

 

I meant loss of attachment to any or all as required, yet that does not mean one should never pick up a tool (of the mind) and use it as needed but when finished then be able to put it down. For instance: imagine someone's hand always being attached to a chain saw and everything they touched or came in contact with had to be done through said chain saw being that they could not put it down...

 

As for "illusion" where does it begin and end? (if not in perception) For instance and to paraphrase part of a saying from the Tao Teh Ching - should it be postulated or inferred that the Tao giving birth to "the One" and the One itself as being illusion?

[Jeff]

Hello Jeff,

 

I meant loss of attachment to any or all as required, yet that does not mean one should never pick up a tool (of the mind) and use it as needed but when finished then be able to put it down. For instance: imagine someone's hand always being attached to a chain saw and everything they touched or came in contact with had to be done through said chain saw being that they could not put it down...

 

As for "illusion" where does it begin and end? (if not in perception) For instance and to paraphrase part of a saying from the Tao Teh Ching - should it be postulated or inferred that the Tao giving birth to "the One" and the One itself as being illusion?

 

Hi 3bob,

 

Thanks for the clarification. Also, I would agree with your point regarding the "the One" and I think it also carries over to our normal "daily existence".

 

Best wishes.