What would you ask a master?

[SonOfTheGods]

Randi is one of the good guys IMO.

Not only does he debunk bogus psychics he's inadvertently helped to create some too..

His book 'Flim Flam' has never been out of print and is a manual for bogus psychics to this day.

Anybody wants to learn how to do 'cold reading' and pass them-self off as a psychic- consultant need look no further.

Randi sets it all out like a 'how to' manual.

"The Satanic Witch" by Anton LaVey is good for cold readings etc

[Ya Mu]

Charles - so good you had the opportunity to go to China. I haven't read the whole thread, but did you learn qigong?

 

I do hope you realize that others have also researched devices to simulate qi emission. I remember speaking with Richard (can't remember his last name) an engineer who did extensive research into this. This may or may not be his company but is one of the devices that utilizes an infrasonic component of qi:

from http://www.soundvitality.com/About_CHI-Institute.asp

"Infratonic Solutions CHI Institute The Infratonic Solutions CHI Institute has been investigating the nature of human vitality since 1986. In the process, we've learned a lot about how pain is stored in the body, and how it can be released effectively and comfortably.

The Infratonic Solutions Infratonic Inc. developed its first therapeutic stochastic resonance treatment massage device in 1988. Based on research that measured the low-level energy emissions from the hands of qigong healers in Beijing, China, the original Infratonic device simulated those human emissions and resulted in effective natural pain relief and accelerated recoveries in many early patients. Testing in hospitals and research labs later found that low-frequency sound was indeed effective at increasing vitality, accelerating healing and strengthening the immune function."

 

Here is another one:

http://qigongmachine.com/

 

"We are the manufacturer,

the patent and trademark

owner.

The resercher and inventor of Qi Gong Machine, Dr. Simon Wang, M.D., Ph.D. After medical training in China (M.D.), he continued to complete his Master degree in acupuncture and Ph.D.degree in neuroendocrinology and post-doctoral work from the West. He studied and conducted medical research in Melbourne, Australia, Boston, Massachusetts and Los Angeles, California, USA and China. He has published numerous scientific papers on neuroscience and books. Dr. Simon Wang and his team have been searching and working on scientifical base for Qi Gong and other eastern healing arts."

 

While I am sure these devices can make a difference there is a big problem in engineering the full component of qi due to many factors. One factor is that no one really knows the full extent of components. While the above were based on the infrasonic component that was measured from the output of a qigong master's hands in an acoustic lab, I do know there are standing magnetic waves set up from qi projection in my own participating experiments and I suspect there are infrasonic all the way past upper gigahertz components as well. And, even if we did arrive at the point where these components were isolated fully and specifically measured, what about the thread that weaves the qi, intent or the human factor? How in the world are we going to have a machine that can set intent and process interactively with a feedback loop? Wow, you sure have your work cut out for you! I have for the last 30 something years said that one day we would have a much better scientific understanding of the components of qi and have wondered if I would still be around when we do.

Although I would be glad to participate in experiments, and have a curiosity due to my EE background, I am more interesting in helping others learn to project Qi for healing, because it works NOW. I think we need a whole new understanding of the human energetics interaction in order to progress further scientifically, as in a whole new field of study beyond magnetic field theory, beyond brain study, beyond neurology, beyond quantum mechanics, beyond anything we now have; a completely new field of study that has not yet been "discovered".

 

[Charles Crawford III]

Charles - so good you had the opportunity to go to China. I haven't read the whole thread, but did you learn qigong?

 

I do hope you realize that others have also researched devices to simulate qi emission. I remember speaking with Richard (can't remember his last name) an engineer who did extensive research into this. This may or may not be his company but is one of the devices that utilizes an infrasonic component of qi:

from http://www.soundvitality.com/About_CHI-Institute.asp

"Infratonic Solutions CHI Institute The Infratonic Solutions CHI Institute has been investigating the nature of human vitality since 1986. In the process, we've learned a lot about how pain is stored in the body, and how it can be released effectively and comfortably.

The Infratonic Solutions Infratonic Inc. developed its first therapeutic stochastic resonance treatment massage device in 1988. Based on research that measured the low-level energy emissions from the hands of qigong healers in Beijing, China, the original Infratonic device simulated those human emissions and resulted in effective natural pain relief and accelerated recoveries in many early patients. Testing in hospitals and research labs later found that low-frequency sound was indeed effective at increasing vitality, accelerating healing and strengthening the immune function."

 

Here is another one:

http://qigongmachine.com/

 

"We are the manufacturer,

the patent and trademark

owner.

The resercher and inventor of Qi Gong Machine, Dr. Simon Wang, M.D., Ph.D. After medical training in China (M.D.), he continued to complete his Master degree in acupuncture and Ph.D.degree in neuroendocrinology and post-doctoral work from the West. He studied and conducted medical research in Melbourne, Australia, Boston, Massachusetts and Los Angeles, California, USA and China. He has published numerous scientific papers on neuroscience and books. Dr. Simon Wang and his team have been searching and working on scientifical base for Qi Gong and other eastern healing arts."

 

While I am sure these devices can make a difference there is a big problem in engineering the full component of qi due to many factors. One factor is that no one really knows the full extent of components. While the above were based on the infrasonic component that was measured from the output of a qigong master's hands in an acoustic lab, I do know there are standing magnetic waves set up from qi projection in my own participating experiments and I suspect there are infrasonic all the way past upper gigahertz components as well. And, even if we did arrive at the point where these components were isolated fully and specifically measured, what about the thread that weaves the qi, intent or the human factor? How in the world are we going to have a machine that can set intent and process interactively with a feedback loop? Wow, you sure have your work cut out for you! I have for the last 30 something years said that one day we would have a much better scientific understanding of the components of qi and have wondered if I would still be around when we do.

Although I would be glad to participate in experiments, and have a curiosity due to my EE background, I am more interesting in helping others learn to project Qi for healing, because it works NOW. I think we need a whole new understanding of the human energetics interaction in order to progress further scientifically, as in a whole new field of study beyond magnetic field theory, beyond brain study, beyond neurology, beyond quantum mechanics, beyond anything we now have; a completely new field of study that has not yet been "discovered".

I agree with you that the infrasonic component is not the only part of Qi. I have been studying how negative ions are similar to Qi. My negative ion generator can produce similar effects that Jiang can do with his Qi. Here is a video of me using my negative ion generator:

 

 

Negative ions can move paper, attract objects, and light LEDs.

Here is a basic video on how to make a negative ion generator:

 

 

My theory is that Qigong users are storing negative ions in their bodies from the negative ions in nature.

After Jiang's sweet water results come back from the chemistry lab, I will have a better idea of what changes are happening to the water. If I can re-create the energy field around the water, with a machine, we would no longer be dependent on sugars, or artificial sweeteners.

There are many other branches of science that can be drastically changed with Qi research. I am juat a scientist, specializing in electronics engineering, studying Qi on my spare time.

 

Charles Crawford III

[thelerner]

The sweet water phenomena runs through a wide gamut. I've seen old school kabalah talk about changing water into original water for life and showing microscope pictures of before and after. Certainly Emoto's (http://www.masaru-emoto.net/english/index.html) work on the sensitivity of water, showing it how crystalizes once frozen after being shown good or bad images is interesting, though I don't know if its been independently confirmed. You have high up saintly guru's who use spit and dust to make medicine balls that are highly prized in Thailand.

 

I wonder if the many cultures who bless there food are unconsciously trying to achieve just this change? In Franz Bardon's Hermetics, food, especially water is magnetically infused w/ positive messages. In orthodox Judaism there's specific prayers for each kind of food, invoking multiple holy names. Beyond words there is a mental focus called for.

 

As an age old survival mechanism, is the person blessing food, improving it, making it safer to eat? Or are they making themselves, there body more accepting of food that could be tainted?

 

How's that for a turn around? What if its not the water changed, but the observer?

[Neikung]

 

I agree with you that the infrasonic component is not the only part of Qi. I have been studying how negative ions are similar to Qi. My negative ion generator can produce similar effects that Jiang can do with his Qi. Here is a video of me using my negative ion generator:

 

My theory is that Qigong users are storing negative ions in their bodies from the negative ions in nature.

After Jiang's sweet water results come back from the chemistry lab, I will have a better idea of what changes are happening to the water. If I can re-create the energy field around the water, with a machine, we would no longer be dependent on sugars, or artificial sweeteners.

There are many other branches of science that can be drastically changed with Qi research. I am juat a scientist, specializing in electronics engineering, studying Qi on my spare time.

 

Charles Crawford III

Hi Charles,

Are you sure that Jiang is real? Personally, I still have a lot of doubts.

In China, there are numerous reports of charlatan using battery as "qi" to sell socalled wonder Chinese. Here is one:

http://www.dezhoudaily.com/news/dezhou/folder135/2011/04/2011-04-28231227.html

You may want to translate the article with google translator but the picture is clear.

 

Here is another report with many "qigong" masters capable of transmitting electric-like qi and use cup on the back to demonstrate the so called "blocked" qi in the blood. This is an identical feat usually done by Jiang and his students. This article talks about the qigong masters as part of "free" foot massage during a tourist tour in Zhangjiajie but of course they will try to sell you their "wonder" drugs.

http://travel.hsw.cn/system/2012/03/16/051274556.shtml

 

So far, all the demos by Jiang can be explained by static electricity or laser. I still have yet to see a demo that is hard to explain to show a real qi ability (like telekinesis in Jim McMillan's video).

 

Finally, it bothers me a great deal when Zhai Jiang Feng changed his name on his web site to Jiang Feng. For Chinese, last name is so important, you don't suddenly drop your last name and call yourself Dr Jiang when your real name should be Dr. Zhai. This makes me wonder if there is something amiss.

[Charles Crawford III]

Hi Charles,

Are you sure that Jiang is real? Personally, I still have a lot of doubts.

In China, there are numerous reports of charlatan using battery as "qi" to sell socalled wonder Chinese. Here is one:

http://www.dezhoudaily.com/news/dezhou/folder135/2011/04/2011-04-28231227.html

You may want to translate the article with google translator but the picture is clear.

 

Here is another report with many "qigong" masters capable of transmitting electric-like qi and use cup on the back to demonstrate the so called "blocked" qi in the blood. This is an identical feat usually done by Jiang and his students. This article talks about the qigong masters as part of "free" foot massage during a tourist tour in Zhangjiajie but of course they will try to sell you their "wonder" drugs.

http://travel.hsw.cn/system/2012/03/16/051274556.shtml

 

Yes, I am sure he is real. I flew all the way to China to see if he was real. I have built negative ion generators, and know everything about them. Jiang striped down to his underwear to demonstrate he did not have any device on him. Dr. Feng Jiang knows there are a magicians, and charlatans, that is why he goes out of his way to demonstrate that he is able to produce this effect with just his body. One dead give away from someone using a device is how they limit their movement. With a device the user needs to remain standing, and are only insulated by the rubber of the shoes. If someone with a device on sits down or touches the desk with the other hand, the charge will not build up and there will be no effect. With a real Qi user they can touch the patient with one hand, and shock them with the other hand, since the Qi energy is internal.

 

So far, all the demos by Jiang can be explained by static electricity or laser. I still have yet to see a demo that is hard to explain to show a real qi ability (like telekinesis in Jim McMillan's video).

I got to see more videos that are not made publicly available, while I was there. I saw psychokinesis, electrogenesis, and telekinesis, Dr. Feng Jiang and his doctors can do everything other genuine Qi gong users can do.

 

Finally, it bothers me a great deal when Zhai Jiang Feng changed his name on his web site to Jiang Feng. For Chinese, last name is so important, you don't suddenly drop your last name and call yourself Dr Jiang when your real name should be Dr. Zhai. This makes me wonder if there is something amiss.

I did not know about his name change. I will have ti ask him next time I see him, or his students.

[grady]

Finally, it bothers me a great deal when Zhai Jiang Feng changed his name on his web site to Jiang Feng. For Chinese, last name is so important, you don't suddenly drop your last name and call yourself Dr Jiang when your real name should be Dr. Zhai. This makes me wonder if there is something amiss.

 

Shifu has never "changed his name".

 

I can't believe this really requires explanation, but here we go … *sigh*

 

His surname 翟, is extremely uncommon, and many native Chinese people will read it as "Di", not realizing that in the context of a surname it is pronounced pronounced "Zhai" (in standard mandarin, more like "Zai" in Shifu's native dialect), and he often simply introduces himself as "Jiang Feng" just to avoid having to explain the character.

 

The first character of his given name 江, pronounced "Jiang", is also his mother's surname. His mother died when he was quite young, and he honors her memory by using the name in this way - when I have heard him say "Jiang is also my surname", this is what he is referring to.

 

Also, in Shifu's village they have a tradition where even people with double character given names are typically just referred to by a single character, so there he is just "Jiang". Other than generic kinship terms (like "mother's sister's husband", "seventh brother", etc.) the only character I have ever heard his own family use to reference him in conversation is "Jiang".

 

Of course on all official documents, his national identity card, all the hospital papers, etc. he uses Zhai.

 

Ever since he started seeing Western patients (who are confused by the reversal of Chinese surname and given name order to begin with - many people think his surname is Feng) he has gone by Jiang Feng for simplicity's sake. So when I put together the hospital website for him, I asked him if he wanted me to use his full 3 character name or just the 2 characters, and he said just use the two characters, or else the foreigners will get confused, and I agreed.

 

Obviously we were wrong.

 

Of course I have to say I am somewhat entertained by all the speculation and implications of some kind of sinister conspiracy here, especially given that the real names (yes, nameS) of the great "John Chang" are *far* more obscured than Jiang Shifu's … food for thought!

Edited April 9, 2014 by grady

[NotVoid]

My theory is that Qigong users are storing negative ions in their bodies from the negative ions in nature. After Jiang's sweet water results come back from the chemistry lab, I will have a better idea of what changes are happening to the water. If I can re-create the energy field around the water, with a machine, we would no longer be dependent on sugars, or artificial sweeteners.

There are many other branches of science that can be drastically changed with Qi research. I am juat a scientist, specializing in electronics engineering, studying Qi on my spare time.

Hi Charles. One thing to keep in mind is that not all qigong is the same, at least in my experience anyway. Not all qigong masters do the electric-like qi emission thing. From what I have seen some other qigong masters can emit a strong qi 'field' from their hands at a distance which you can physically feel in your body, but they may not be able to do the electric-like qi thing. There really does appear to be different forms of qi, and different practices and ways of using these different forms of qi.

 

Regarding reproducing the sweet water effect using technology, as I think someone already mentioned, that might be pretty hard to accomplish without first having some pretty clear idea of what qigong masters like Jiang Feng are actually doing when they 'emit qi' to the water. Are they creating some sort of high energy field, or are they radiating high energy particles or electromagnetic energy, or some combination of such things, or are they doing something else entirely? I think you would probably need to get a qigong master who can do things like making water turn sweet into a sophisticated physics lab environment and take all sorts of measurements to try to figure out what is actually going on. In your view, what do you think might be going on in the case of making water turn sweet through qi emission, and what are you basing your view on?

[Charles Crawford III]

This is the results from Dr. Feng Jiang's sweet water. The water was tested with two different procedures. The results show that there were no chemicals added to the water, and the the samples tested as plain water. What ever Jiang is able to do to the water does not change the chemical properties, but makes the water sweet and more refined. To me, this proves that he did not add anything to the water, but is able to create a field effect with his body that can change the properties of water.

 

 

[NotVoid]

This is the results from Dr. Feng Jiang's sweet water. The water was tested with two different procedures. The results show that there were no chemicals added to the water, and the the samples tested as plain water. What ever Jiang is able to do to the water does not change the chemical properties, but makes the water sweet and more refined. To me, this proves that he did not add anything to the water, but is able to create a field effect with his body that can change the properties of water.

Interesting. The problem is that the properties of the water are its chemical properties, as least from the point of view of physical tests. If the water tastes sweet, but its physical (chemical) properties haven't changed in a detectable way (at least based on the two testing methods that were done) then here's a couple of possible considerations:

 

1) The sweetness taste effect that Jiang Feng created in the water is only temporary, and whatever had changed in the water had returned back to normal by the time the water was actually tested. If you still have a sample of the water, does it still taste sweet?

 

2) If the same water sample that was tested still tastes sweet today, then whatever is making the water taste sweet would appear to not be related directly to the chemical composition of the water, so then what is it related to? Another possibility is that there is a difference in chemical composition of some sort in the water, but the particular tests done were not able to pick it up.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2014 by NotVoid

[SonOfTheGods]

If the properties of water are changed/altered:

 

Is it still water, though?

[Spotless]

Why can't masters access the information of buried/lost Taoist scripts through their intuition or with their link to Universal Intelligence?

 

Explanation: I'm thinking of Wang Liping and his 3 teachers, all of exceptionally high attainment, yet they consider the informational discovery of lost Taoist texts as an event of magnificent import, as if they would not have been able to access its information in any other way.

 

 

Decades after developing True Breath, does it subside with reversion to normal breathing, or is it maintained permanently for the rest of one's life when one chooses?

 

It is not as one thinks - particularly with little or no inertia.

Often unless a question is asked - the answer is not revealed - it sits among the leaves - just another leaf.

Put into words it is a revelation.

[silent thunder]

Randi is one of the good guys IMO.

Not only does he debunk bogus psychics he's inadvertently helped to create some too..

His book 'Flim Flam' has never been out of print and is a manual for bogus psychics to this day.

Anybody wants to learn how to do 'cold reading' and pass them-self off as a psychic- consultant need look no further.

Randi sets it all out like a 'how to' manual.

I dug/dig Randi, depending where he is in the material/incorporeal realms...

 

This falls into the category of 'careful what you allow yourself to hate, you will become more like it" to me and reminds me of the guy who set out to prove that God was real and ended up irreconcilably proving to himself that he was an Atheist...

 

fun stuff!

[Brian]

How did you quantify "sweetness?" Or was that a subjective thing?

[Charles Crawford III]

Interesting. The problem is that the properties of the water are its chemical properties, as least from the point of view of physical tests. If the water tastes sweet, but its physical (chemical) properties haven't changed in a detectable way (at least based on the two testing methods that were done) then here's a couple of possible considerations:

 

1) The sweetness taste effect that Jiang Feng created in the water is only temporary, and whatever had changed in the water had returned back to normal by the time the water was actually tested. If you still have a sample of the water, does it still taste sweet?

 

2) If the same water sample that was tested still tastes sweet today, then whatever is making the water taste sweet would appear to not be related directly to the chemical composition of the water, so then what is it related to? Another possibility is that there is a difference in chemical composition of some sort in the water, but the particular tests done were not able to pick it up.

 

 

 

 

1) The sweetness and smooth consistency of the water did fade after a few days. I tasted the water I brought back from China a few days after the Qi infusion, and it did not taste as sweet. I latre found out that water is actually a very poor "substrate" for this kind of qi infusion, with the herbs they use being a far better one. The chemist initially thought there was a gas infused in the water, and that was what was causing the bubbles, and that after a few days the gas can escape and not leave any traces for the tests.

 

2) Because the energy does escape I do not think Jiang is adding chemicals, or permanently changing the chemical structure of the water with his energy.

 

My current hypothesis is that Dr. Feng Jiang can produce an energy field effect that can ionize the molecules of water. I am experimenting with machines in order to replicate the effect. I would like to have a Qi user turn water sweet, and test the water immediately after, but since that is currently not possible, I will continue to test the water I have to prove that there were not any sweetener chemicals added.

[SonOfTheGods]

1) The sweetness and smooth consistency of the water did fade after a few days. I tasted the water I brought back from China a few days after the Qi infusion, and it did not taste as sweet. I latre found out that water is actually a very poor "substrate" for this kind of qi infusion, with the herbs they use being a far better one. The chemist initially thought there was a gas infused in the water, and that was what was causing the bubbles, and that after a few days the gas can escape and not leave any traces for the tests.

 

2) Because the energy does escape I do not think Jiang is adding chemicals, or permanently changing the chemical structure of the water with his energy.

 

My current hypothesis is that Dr. Feng Jiang can produce an energy field effect that can ionize the molecules of water. I am experimenting with machines in order to replicate the effect. I would like to have a Qi user turn water sweet, and test the water immediately after, but since that is currently not possible, I will continue to test the water I have to prove that there were not any sweetener chemicals added.

 

Yin makes it bitter/Negative ions

 

Yang makes it sweet/Positive ions

 

I have done both- for healing

[Mystique Enigma]

Ask him how much effort he uses to eat, sleep or poop...

 

Bows

[Andrei]

 

My current hypothesis is that Dr. Feng Jiang can produce an energy field effect that can ionize the molecules of water. I am experimenting with machines in order to replicate the effect. I would like to have a Qi user turn water sweet, and test the water immediately after, but since that is currently not possible, I will continue to test the water I have to prove that there were not any sweetener chemicals added.

 

You can do it yourself and test the water after charging:

 

 

I am curious what your conclusions would be...

[ChiDragon]

You can do it yourself and test the water after charging:

 

 

I am curious what your conclusions would be...

 

The glass he was holding with his hand was warmed by his body temperature and the other one was not.

Edited June 13, 2014 by ChiDragon

[SonOfTheGods]

You can do it yourself and test the water after charging:

 

 

I am curious what your conclusions would be...

 

Yes, anyone with even minimal experience in general Qi workings can alter water taste: even before creating Qi balls/PSI spheres

[SonOfTheGods]

 

The glass he was holding with his hand was warmed by his body temperature and the other one was not.

[Ya Mu]

... I latre found out that water is actually a very poor "substrate" for this kind of qi infusion, with the herbs they use being a far better one.

Yes, water does not hold charge as well as herbal infusions. But I think you a bit confused about it always being "sweet". It depends on the intent of the practitioner and what the patient or client needs. Sometimes sweet, yes. Sometimes "tangy" or bitter, sometimes totally neutral as in no taste at all (whereas original untreated had particular taste).

 

My favorite instant "cold" infusion is to use Gaia super strength echinacea liquid in water and charge it up. WHAM!!!

[NotVoid]

1) The sweetness and smooth consistency of the water did fade after a few days. I tasted the water I brought back from China a few days after the Qi infusion, and it did not taste as sweet. I latre found out that water is actually a very poor "substrate" for this kind of qi infusion, with the herbs they use being a far better one. The chemist initially thought there was a gas infused in the water, and that was what was causing the bubbles, and that after a few days the gas can escape and not leave any traces for the tests.

 

2) Because the energy does escape I do not think Jiang is adding chemicals, or permanently changing the chemical structure of the water with his energy.

 

My current hypothesis is that Dr. Feng Jiang can produce an energy field effect that can ionize the molecules of water. I am experimenting with machines in order to replicate the effect. I would like to have a Qi user turn water sweet, and test the water immediately after, but since that is currently not possible, I will continue to test the water I have to prove that there were not any sweetener chemicals added.

That's really interesting, including about the herb infusions and also possibly a gas in the water. Water is supposed to be able to be 'charged' with qi, or at least to be able to channel or carry qi, according to some teachers/sources. The ionization of water aspect is an interesting angle as well....

 

I forget much of my chemistry, but I did a quick lookup, and I believe that in water an excess of H+ ions in water (positive hydrogen ions) is acidic, which corresponds to a pH reading of 0 - 6. Acids tend to taste sour (example vinegar, citrus). An excess of negative hydrogen ions (OH-) represents a base, which corresponds to a pH reading of 8 - 14. Bases tend to taste bitter and feel somewhat slippery. Examples given were lye and ammonia. A pH test on water, before and after qi charging, with a half decent quality pH meter might prove interesting...

 

Edited June 14, 2014 by NotVoid

[silent thunder]

I'd ask them to go camping...

[zanshin]

I'd ask if he knows how to dance.