Sneeze all the time?

[Stosh]

I havent an answer to this question and Im curious what might be an answer...

Im just picking sneezing as an example ..

 

If a Human is smart ,

and one learns

and one does more of what one likes

because they learn it

and sneezing feels good

Then why dont you learn to sneeze all the time?

[ChiDragon]

I just sneezed because my nose was itchy. It was a natural nervous response, I don't think one need to learn how to do it.

Breathing feels good and gives longevity, thus Taoists learn to breathe by practice Chi Kung(氣功) all the time.

[Stosh]

Fair enough, CD but what Im asking, is not if one needs to learn how , but why is it that one doesnt learn how to make it happen without an external stimulus,,

your brain does learning and the tendency is to repeat what one likes , so why cant it seem to learn to sneeze on its own,, that one would do it for no reason other than they liked doing it?

There was a M. Critchton book The Terminal man , the protagonist has seizures and doctors try to correct them by putting some electrodes in his brain so there was a positive feedback mechanism , which was supposed to automatically correct his problems but his brain starts intentionally activating it because it liked the stimulation, and so he goes nuts ( if I remember it correctly).

Obviously electroshock aversion therapy is based on a learning ability , and one can manipulate people, to a degree ,to react positively or negatively without realizing it. ( same as with pets)

Theres also addictions and phobias which , are often considered rather umm 'uncoerced' or nonvolitional.

All of which relates to unconsciously incorporated attitudes pessimism apathy depression , bad habits, self image etc.

So if a person is going to get control of themselves re: these issues , then I'd like to know why it is that so much behavior is not inherently 'self correcting' or 'self encouraging'.

If you taste something nasty , it takes no time to "learn" that you dont want to eat that , and you might be repulsed by even the idea of eating it again... but if you liked it a lot , you also wouldnt need much time to learn to gravitate toward the food.

 

So in that vein, if breathing Chi Kung(氣功) style, feels good , then why does it take PRACTICE.when I dont have to practice spitting out broccoli ? I should already be doing it ( having done lots of breathing in my day)

Edited February 21, 2014 by Stosh

[Nungali]

Maybe because we became 'out of harmony' ? - Not a 'natural animal'. Animals seem to have that ... they will travel great distance to lick a certain mineral of a cave wall, or hold an amputated paw in mud until it begins to heal.

 

Animals will keep hitting the ecstasy electrode switch implanted in their heads and ignore the switch that supplies food .... but they dont have the capacity naturally to set that up .... we do . Animals may be attracted to natural psychoactives but they dont have the ability to manufacture heroin and hypodermic needles.

 

Its all regulated by 'correct living' ( a brief and lazy term ... I know) ; The culture of the Ik of Uganda worked fine, they has a relevant but isolationist system (the closest language to theirs seems to have been middle-kingdom Egyptian).

 

Hunters banded together and never ate the food they caught (unless a bit of it or the blood was needed to gain strength to get the food home) ... within only a few years of western interference hunters sneaked around, tricked each other, scoffed the food (and often forced themselves to vomit so they could eat all of it) then went home and told their families they didnt catch anything while in private with the other 'men' laughed and scoffed about it.

 

At this stage, the anthropologist Colin Turnbull described their ways as 'the cold coffin of Ik humanity' .

 

Its going to take them a LOT of 'practice' to recover (if they can).

Edited February 21, 2014 by Nungali

[ChiDragon]

 

So in that vein, if breathing Chi Kung(氣功) style, feels good , then why does it take PRACTICE.when I dont have to practice spitting out broccoli ? I should already be doing it ( having done lots of breathing in my day)

 

The breathing Chi Kung(氣功) style is not just ordinary breathing; that's why it takes practice.

[Stosh]

Maybe because we became 'out of harmony' ? - Not a 'natural animal'. Animals seem to have that ... they will travel great distance to lick a certain mineral of a cave wall, or hold an amputated paw in mud until it begins to heal.

 

Animals will keep hitting the ecstasy electrode switch implanted in their heads and ignore the switch that supplies food .... but they dont have the capacity naturally to set that up .... we do . Animals may be attracted to natural psychoactives but they dont have the ability to manufacture heroin and hypodermic needles.

 

Its all regulated by 'correct living' ( a brief and lazy term ... I know) ; The culture of the Ik of Uganda worked fine, they has a relevant but isolationist system (the closest language to theirs seems to have been middle-kingdom Egyptian).

 

Hunters banded together and never ate the food they caught (unless a bit of it or the blood was needed to gain strength to get the food home) ... within only a few years of western interference hunters sneaked around, tricked each other, scoffed the food (and often forced themselves to vomit so they could eat all of it) then went home and told their families they didnt catch anything while in private with the other 'men' laughed and scoffed about it.

 

At this stage, the anthropologist Colin Turnbull described their ways as 'the cold coffin of Ik humanity' .

 

Its going to take them a LOT of 'practice' to recover (if they can).

That may be well and true Nugali , but what Im ,still ,sincerely asking , is why we don't learn certain things , since we dont have much of that animal programming that gets called instinct .

You too are getting to the question, as in lab rats, but not there yet.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Stosh

[Stosh]

 

The breathing Chi Kung(氣功) style is not just ordinary breathing; that's why it takes practice.

Ok , lets say I breathe and one day I breathe just a bit closer to that style and it feels good , why why dont I breathe like that more often? and then another day , breathe that way just a hair more correctly ,, and so on ,until I was doing it right?

I read one thing on belly breathing , it said that such was the normal style of breathing for babies,, well , then I too already breathed that way once,, as a baby , and then learned to NOT breathe that way later. No one ever taught me any breathing at all.

You are not far off in understanding my question Cd , youre talking about a reflexive action , manipulated by mind , and becoming habit. but your direction is that you CAN learn it , rather than , why dont you do it already, yes its not the "norm" you proceed from there as if the norm is the place to start, I am backing up to a time before the norm is fully established , why would you do this wrong norm in the first place? or not self correct without even trying.

 

( I thought you promoted doing what was Natural? The CK breathing is bad?)

Edited February 21, 2014 by Stosh

[Stosh]

Ill try another direction on this , five plates of nutritionally equivalent foods are set before you, ( you are allowed just one) and you choose one of them . What is it that made you pick the one you did? (such as, you liked it better , you approved of it better , you are most familiar with it etc etc )

 

Im thinking most might say that they chose the one they liked best , but I dont know yet.. Im asking about motivations,, ( Im not asking if you are a vegetarian or like beans or coffee ) once answered, Ill have a follow-up to what you said. if anyone is willing to answer this " its not a trick "

 

 

the way this relates to the earlier thing is that they revolve around the thing that causes us to do, or not do, things.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Stosh

[Rara]

Ill try another direction on this , five plates of nutritionally equivalent foods are set before you, ( you are allowed just one) and you choose one of them . What is it that made you pick the one you did? (such as, you liked it better , you approved of it better , you are most familiar with it etc etc )

 

Im thinking most might say that they chose the one they liked best , but I dont know yet.. Im asking about motivations,, ( Im not asking if you are a vegetarian or like beans or coffee ) once answered, Ill have a follow-up to what you said. if anyone is willing to answer this " its not a trick "

 

 

the way this relates to the earlier thing is that they revolve around the thing that causes us to do, or not do, things.

I think I know what you're getting at. We shall see.

 

I will answer this first of all...

 

I immediately know which food to pick. One always jumps out. Same goes for all things, but food is a good example as it's very regular. Just like when I'm in a restaurant...it doesn't take a second to pick the dessert.

 

So I guess I already have decisions made based in what I have experienced prior. I already have a preference for everything. I know what I like.

 

So now, Stosh, I will let you carry on...

[Rara]

Ok , lets say I breathe and one day I breathe just a bit closer to that style and it feels good , why why dont I breathe like that more often? and then another day , breathe that way just a hair more correctly ,, and so on ,until I was doing it right?

I read one thing on belly breathing , it said that such was the normal style of breathing for babies,, well , then I too already breathed that way once,, as a baby , and then learned to NOT breathe that way later. No one ever taught me any breathing at all.

You are not far off in understanding my question Cd , youre talking about a reflexive action , manipulated by mind , and becoming habit. but your direction is that you CAN learn it , rather than , why dont you do it already, yes its not the "norm" you proceed from there as if the norm is the place to start, I am backing up to a time before the norm is fully established , why would you do this wrong norm in the first place? or not self correct without even trying.

 

( I thought you promoted doing what was Natural? The CK breathing is bad?)

It is said that chi breathing makes you feel like a new born child. No one taught you how to be...and you didn't consciously learn to not breathe properly. But I believe this is down to the domino effect of being duped by "the way the world is"

 

I have only just started to realise how being stressed and having health problems = doing well in life (as far as modern society goes) So it's almost like we have learnt bad breathing habits from that succesful business man on TV who gets red as hell but is top of his empire, so it's all good. Just an example...

 

How much does society let us breathe like a baby? It doesn't...that's why we meditate, right? To counter the negative vibe in the air...

 

As for sneezing, mine always comes on due to nervous system issues. So this can be trained right? We can begin to practice running ourselves down...

[Stosh]

It is said that chi breathing makes you feel like a new born child. No one taught you how to be...and you didn't consciously learn to not breathe properly. But I believe this is down to the domino effect of being duped by "the way the world is"

You were 'duped' into breathing the way you do? Ok well taking that as a starting point , ,, this would mean that you learned unconsciously how to breathe in a "not right " way.. How is it that you did not defy this reprogramming if it feels better to breathe the other way?

 

 

I have only just started to realise how being stressed and having health problems = doing well in life (as far as modern society goes) So it's almost like we have learnt bad breathing habits from that succesful business man on TV who gets red as hell but is top of his empire, so it's all good. Just an example...

 

Are you saying you somehow can tell how he is breathing and emulate that because you want to be admired?

Ok , What says to you that you should do things, to be admired?

 

 

How much does society let us breathe like a baby? It doesn't...that's why we meditate, right? To counter the negative vibe in the air...

 

As for sneezing, mine always comes on due to nervous system issues. So this can be trained right? We can begin to practice running ourselves down...

Im thinking yes , the brain can control sneezing even though its usually a somatic reaction ,( as in psychosomatic sneezing around a cat which doesnt occur, until the person sees the animal ) Would this be a healthy or pleasant connection -association for one to be doing, ? and why is it then , that the person 'does' this reaction. ( as you suppose it)

[Rara]

You were 'duped' into breathing the way you do? Ok well taking that as a starting point , ,, this would mean that you learned unconsciously how to breathe in a "not right " way.. How is it that you did not defy this reprogramming if it feels better to breathe the other way?

 

Well, we're not aware it's happening. So there is no conscious decision to defy until we are aware. Hence why we become practitioners of meditation, Qi Gong or whatever else....

 

Leading to...

[Rara]

Are you saying you somehow can tell how he is breathing and emulate that because you want to be admired?

Ok , What says to you that you should do things, to be admired?

 

Not at all. The whole thing is completely subconscious. My example was hypothetical/ a generalisation of the stereotypical person climbing the career ladder. Or it could be anything....being a single parent or having troublesome neighbours. Basically, anything that generates unnecessary conflict and therefore stress.

 

And I don't think things should be done to be admired. This is what the majority of the world do. Expectations - parents wanting child to be a rich and successful...so he or she put themselves through years and years of university or push them into a corporation experiencing stress after stress. Meanwhile, no one is reminding them to breathe...(again, using an extreme hypothetical example)

Edited February 21, 2014 by Rara

[Rara]

Im thinking yes , the brain can control sneezing even though its usually a somatic reaction ,( as in psychosomatic sneezing around a cat which doesnt occur, until the person sees the animal ) Would this be a healthy or pleasant connection -association for one to be doing, ? and why is it then , that the person 'does' this reaction. ( as you suppose it)

 

Good question. In fact, I'm one who "suffers" from cat and dog allergies. But ever since the doctor told me I had to stay away and/or take anti-histamines, I thought NAAAAH.

 

Interestingly I suffer less these days after just using affirmations to eradicate the symptoms. I'm not 100% better, but a hell of a lot better. Fascinating...my allergies triggered by fear?

 

But what was odd was the unconscious being behind it all. I only discovered I had an allergy when I went to my sister's age 13 and started sneezing like crazy. I wouldn't say I was sneezing because I saw a cat present, because I had no conscious concept of allergies at that stage in my life.

 

Quite interesting but I am almost convinced that we can train ourselves not to react to such things. But are you wondering if we can do this the other way around then? Sneezing on demand?

[ChiDragon]

Ok , lets say I breathe and one day I breathe just a bit closer to that style and it feels good , why why dont I breathe like that more often? and then another day , breathe that way just a hair more correctly ,, and so on ,until I was doing it right?

 

I don't see why not. That is what Chi Kung is all about. It takes practice daily for improvement.

 

I read one thing on belly breathing , it said that such was the normal style of breathing for babies,, well , then I too already breathed that way once,, as a baby , and then learned to NOT breathe that way later. No one ever taught me any breathing at all.

 

Well, the reason that babies breathe with their bellies is because their lungs aren't fully developed for breathing. During the later stage, they will forget to breathe with their bellies as soon the lungs are fully developed.

 

You are not far off in understanding my question Cd , youre talking about a reflexive action , manipulated by mind , and becoming habit. but your direction is that you CAN learn it , rather than , why dont you do it already, yes its not the "norm" you proceed from there as if the norm is the place to start, I am backing up to a time before the norm is fully established , why would you do this wrong norm in the first place? or not self correct without even trying.

 

( I thought you promoted doing what was Natural? The CK breathing is bad?)

 

Yes, doing what is Natural is only a basic principle to be followed. To perform CK breathing is only to incorporate the forgotten original method in breathing after the lungs are fully developed in adulthood. One might be considered it was unnatural. However, when the health benefits were discovered are more than good for the body development, then it was nothing unnatural about it. Indeed, chest breathing may be a norm for an ordinary person; but CK breathing or abdominal breathing is a norm for a Taoist.

 

Edited February 21, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Stosh]

I don't see why not. That is what Chi Kung is all about. It takes practice daily for improvement.

 

Well Cd I dont either , but its not the case , I just breathe normal ,and thats why Im posting these questions.

 

But Ok I see how you are weighing naturalness- if its self benefitting , that is in accordance with the natural trend of behavior ,, So riding a bike would be 'natural' if it got one to ones desired destination quicker , right?

Its a difficult definition though , because death would then be unnatural.

[Stosh]

Well, we're not aware it's happening. So there is no conscious decision to defy until we are aware. Hence why we become practitioners of meditation, Qi Gong or whatever else....

 

Leading to...

Im revolving around the unconscious learning process too, the resistance , to unconsciously emulating the other persons breathing would be the good feeling of breathing better unconsciously experienced.

 

It seems, you think that you can only incorporate ,unconsciously, "bad" habits like some innocent lamb overwhelmed because your conscious awareness isnt there to protect you.. is that right?

 

But anyway ,Im not sure the idea that the awareness -generally described - attainable by meditation is considered "conscious" as in a structured understanding and noticing of what is beneficial or not since the general pattern is to dismiss or exclude thoughts until one arrives at a thought free experience. Im not really sure what is motivating folks to do these things , one would have to ask them , and thats what the significance of this thread is about to me, "Why do folks do ,or not do ,what they do?" Why do they learn what it is they do learn , and not learn what they might learn but don't.

 

Is there is inherent impediment to learning certain things ( like to sneeze all the time) , its possible that one makes choices on liking , or that there are mental 'pay-offs' which add up to motivating what one does. And though it seems like there is some support for that idea , like drug abuse, but there is also some evidence that this mechanism is not so simple.

[Stosh]

.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Stosh

[Stosh]

Good question. In fact, I'm one who "suffers" from cat and dog allergies. But ever since the doctor told me I had to stay away and/or take anti-histamines, I thought NAAAAH.

 

Interestingly I suffer less these days after just using affirmations to eradicate the symptoms. I'm not 100% better, but a hell of a lot better. Fascinating...my allergies triggered by fear?

 

But what was odd was the unconscious being behind it all. I only discovered I had an allergy when I went to my sister's age 13 and started sneezing like crazy. I wouldn't say I was sneezing because I saw a cat present, because I had no conscious concept of allergies at that stage in my life.

 

Quite interesting but I am almost convinced that we can train ourselves not to react to such things. But are you wondering if we can do this the other way around then? Sneezing on demand?

No sir , not sneezing on intentional demand,

The Q is why is it you dont learn the behaviors that would satisfy a payoff based learning pattern without having to force yourself into what I consider some unnatural pattern of self training. Like in teaching yourself to hyperventilate rather than breathe as your body is designed to for an adult.

 

If you asked a behaviorist , why gambling addictions occur, they may say that during the process the subject experiences a little dose of dopamine , which encourages a repeat of the sequence.. so even though they may consciously dislike the losing , the gambler may continue ,even to highly self destructive levels.

But in sneezing , endorphins are also released , ( Im told) which is why you get a pleasant little chill. but its not at all ordinary for a person to get addicted to sneezing.

Similarly , I like apples and twinkies ( now discontinued) , given a choice , I might reach for that twinkie first , and the supposition is that I get more of a payoff from eating the twinkie than the apple , though if I think about it retroactively , I relish the apple more.

Remove a person from the pressure of strange social input and they do not start hyperventilating.

Because these considerations present themselves , there is probably a principle which is coming into play which I dont know about relating to behavior ,, Since a great deal of the subject matter here discussed , relates to motivations behaviors attitudes , I would have thought that TTBs might have an alternate view which would supplement the normal behavioralists.

 

The problem with the payoff based motivational scenario is that people do not seem to be optimizing the payoffs consistently beyond a very limited scope.

Im not sneezing now , although I do have dopamine to dump .

Edited February 23, 2014 by Stosh

[Rara]

Im revolving around the unconscious learning process too, the resistance , to unconsciously emulating the other persons breathing would be the good feeling of breathing better unconsciously experienced.

 

It seems, you think that you can only incorporate ,unconsciously, "bad" habits like some innocent lamb overwhelmed because your conscious awareness isnt there to protect you.. is that right?

 

But anyway ,Im not sure the idea that the awareness -generally described - attainable by meditation is considered "conscious" as in a structured understanding and noticing of what is beneficial or not since the general pattern is to dismiss or exclude thoughts until one arrives at a thought free experience. Im not really sure what is motivating folks to do these things , one would have to ask them , and thats what the significance of this thread is about to me, "Why do folks do ,or not do ,what they do?" Why do they learn what it is they do learn , and not learn what they might learn but don't.

 

Is there is inherent impediment to learning certain things ( like to sneeze all the time) , its possible that one makes choices on liking , or that there are mental 'pay-offs' which add up to motivating what one does. And though it seems like there is some support for that idea , like drug abuse, but there is also some evidence that this mechanism is not so simple.

 

Hehe, I work in media/marketing...yes, I "people-watch". Roughly 90% of people I some across are switched off. It takes specific techniques to wake people. It also takes specific techniques to hit people's unconsciousness. In a twisted way, it's a bit like hypnosis. Psychology or whatever you want to call it. It's the same thing that thieves use...decoys, clever talk, manipulation. So yes, only someone who is actually conscious and aware of what is going on (aka mindfulness) will be able to not be a puppet, in this regard.

 

Your meditation description, I'm sort of on board with actually. I actually scrapped a load of things you just described because found them to be utterly pointless...if done religiously! In a ritualistic fashion. Maybe I can elaborate but I don't know if this thread has quite got there yet and I don't want to turd on loads of other people's practice techniques.

 

I like your last paragraph a lot. I've not thought about this myself. Good stuff!

[Rara]

No sir , not sneezing on intentional demand,

The Q is why is it you dont learn the behaviors that would satisfy a payoff based learning pattern without having to force yourself into what I consider some unnatural pattern of self training. Like in teaching yourself to hyperventilate rather than breathe as your body is designed to for an adult.

 

If you asked a behaviorist , why gambling addictions occur, they may say that during the process the subject experiences a little dose of dopamine , which encourages a repeat of the sequence.. so even though they may consciously dislike the losing , the gambler may continue ,even to highly self destructive levels.

But in sneezing , endorphins are also released , ( Im told) which is why you get a pleasant little chill. but its not at all ordinary for a person to get addicted to sneezing.

Similarly , I like apples and twinkies ( now discontinued) , given a choice , I might reach for that twinkie first , and the supposition is that I get more of a payoff from eating the twinkie than the apple , though if I think about it retroactively , I relish the apple more.

Remove a person from the pressure of strange social input and they do not start hyperventilating.

Because these considerations present themselves , there is probably a principle which is coming into play which I dont know about relating to behavior ,, Since a great deal of the subject matter here discussed , relates to motivations behaviors attitudes , I would have thought that TTBs might have an alternate view which would supplement the normal behavioralists.

 

The problem with the payoff based motivational scenario is that people do not seem to be optimizing the payoffs consistently beyond a very limited scope.

Im not sneezing now , although I do have dopamine to dump .

 

I swear that we have had a similar convo on a thread before...somewhere.

 

We were talking about the exact same principle..."training" to do the natural thing.

 

To which I remember MH ridiculing this idea...yet this is just how we have described a lot of Taoist behaviour. You just have taken it to the next level...good stuff! (again)

 

Now I go away and think about the sneezing thing, because you're right. I fee great after a good sneeze...but I don't want to sneeze because of the process.

 

The same goes for vomiting when feeling sick. No one likes the process but the relief afterwards is what is needed...

 

Getting rich can be a very long, drawn out process for an entrepreneur...many quit because of the work it takes to get there. But those that reach the end love the end result.

 

But not to get carried, away, I'm just starting to see some patterns now.

 

Cool!

[Stosh]

Hehe, I work in media/marketing...yes, I "people-watch". Roughly 90% of people I some across are switched off. It takes specific techniques to wake people. It also takes specific techniques to hit people's unconsciousness. In a twisted way, it's a bit like hypnosis. Psychology or whatever you want to call it. It's the same thing that thieves use...decoys, clever talk, manipulation. So yes, only someone who is actually conscious and aware of what is going on (aka mindfulness) will be able to not be a puppet, in this regard.

 

Your meditation description, I'm sort of on board with actually. I actually scrapped a load of things you just described because found them to be utterly pointless...if done religiously! In a ritualistic fashion. Maybe I can elaborate but I don't know if this thread has quite got there yet and I don't want to turd on loads of other people's practice techniques.

 

I like your last paragraph a lot. I've not thought about this myself. Good stuff!

Ahh Great! marketing is a perfect angle to look at this from.

Catch me up on the zeitgeist if you will,

Now a coke or pepsi commercial has some subtleties working for it to try to motivate consumers.

One sees the sexy babes in a modern context , therefore the product is seen as a modern one rather than an outdated one,

or alternatively as a traditional american treat.

It associates the product with attractive qualities, fun , young etc. Its a thing to enjoy.

And yet while I am a vegetable watching it seemingly defenseless, I dont run out and get some. Not ever.

Though I do like the babes , would prefer to be younger ,and having a blast all the time dancing around on a beach, trendy and yet secure in a traditional value. ( presumably)

How would a marketer account for my resistance to the commercial ? EVEN if I DO opt for a coke when I go to Burger King.

[Stosh]

I swear that we have had a similar convo on a thread before...somewhere.

 

We were talking about the exact same principle..."training" to do the natural thing.

 

To which I remember MH ridiculing this idea...yet this is just how we have described a lot of Taoist behaviour. You just have taken it to the next level...good stuff! (again)

 

Now I go away and think about the sneezing thing, because you're right. I fee great after a good sneeze...but I don't want to sneeze because of the process.

 

The same goes for vomiting when feeling sick. No one likes the process but the relief afterwards is what is needed...

 

Getting rich can be a very long, drawn out process for an entrepreneur...many quit because of the work it takes to get there. But those that reach the end love the end result.

 

But not to get carried, away, I'm just starting to see some patterns now.

 

Cool!

What did Mh 'ridicule' not considering it valid etc blah blah ? Training to do a natural thing?

 

You bring up postponed gratification , how is it that a person can do it,,,?

if the mechanism is based on the triggering of neurotransmitters

Then one would have to assume that a person , triggers the neurotransmitters even in an absence of actual stimulation... wouldnt that imply that a person could make themselves happy with no actual stimulation at all? that the brain can and does do that without conscious control at all , and therefore ones brain should learn to be happy and satisfied all the time. ( leading to a happily -apathetic death)

Edited February 23, 2014 by Stosh

[Rara]

Ahh Great! marketing is a perfect angle to look at this from.

Catch me up on the zeitgeist if you will,

Now a coke or pepsi commercial has some subtleties working for it to try to motivate consumers.

One sees the sexy babes in a modern context , therefore the product is seen as a modern one rather than an outdated one,

or alternatively as a traditional american treat.

It associates the product with attractive qualities, fun , young etc. Its a thing to enjoy.

And yet while I am a vegetable watching it seemingly defenseless, I dont run out and get some. Not ever.

Though I do like the babes , would prefer to be younger ,and having a blast all the time dancing around on a beach, trendy and yet secure in a traditional value. ( presumably)

How would a marketer account for my resistance to the commercial ? EVEN if I DO opt for a coke when I go to Burger King.

 

There is a fair amount of acceptance that not every one will dig a product. So there is this "target audience" idea which I'm sure you're aware of. So the advert might not do anything for you , if you decide to watch, I dunno, the superbowl one night anyway, you land yourself in a situation where you see this Pepsi commercial regardless. You might like NFL, but not care for the adverts. I'm the same. It's strange, I work with such brands but don't really give a shit about them when I'm out of the work place. In fact, there is somewhat a bit of resistance in me. I hate advertising, but I happen to do it very well and fall into these types of jobs haha.

 

So now the question becomes more in depth. Because, we get to the nitty-gritty of it all. We're stating the obvious that the stereotypical sports fan will be a bit out of shape as they sit in the crowd or at home with a Pepsi and a burger. But what about those that don't? Again, we all have likes within our likes. I watch WWE...I like the acrobatic nature of it...and the silly drama keeps me amused. But I hate elements of it. Like the uber-patriotism or the backstage politics.

 

The thing is...I don't know why. But as I mentioned before in our similar conversation...I don't know why a murderer likes to murder. Does he get the same satisfaction that I get at a live WWE event? Is the nature of that emotion exactly the same?

 

Maybe some people do make themselves sneeze and get off on it. You never know!

[Rara]

What did Mh 'ridicule' not considering it valid etc blah blah ? Training to do a natural thing?

 

You bring up postponed gratification , how is it that a person can do it,,,?

if the mechanism is based on the triggering of neurotransmitters

Then one would have to assume that a person , triggers the neurotransmitters even in an absence of actual stimulation... wouldnt that imply that a person could make themselves happy with no actual stimulation at all? that the brain can and does do that without conscious control at all , and therefore ones brain should learn to be happy and satisfied all the time. ( leading to a happily -apathetic death)

 

Training to do a natural thing. exactly. Because the Tao (or at least part of the practice) is to return to the true nature. And we do this by doing Qi Gong or meditation? Really, this is quite dogmatic...I can vouch that meditation makes me feel calm and see things with more clarity. It helps my focus and enhances my ability to handle my stress...life under pressure etc. Fantastic...but when I'm training for more energy or enlightenment etc...now that's risky, right?

 

I don't have an answer for the last part of this but what I do say is that yes, there seems to be some missing info in all of this. I mean, breathing as a baby, to be perfectly honest, I don't remember. So if someone tells me that this is the way to liberation as an adult, I would be taking their word for it. On the flip side, what I do remember is being a toddler...and what happened? Certain things tickled my fancy so I naturally liked them! Teenage Mutant Ninjas Turtles. Chocolate. Wrestling. Power Rangers. The list goes on.

 

Or maybe that was all part of the evil marketing super plan

 

I hope this thread doesn't drive me insane. I hate looking at both sides of the coin. Makes me want to choose one as right and the other as wrong!