The method of Alchemy, according to Liu I Ming

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I hope it is alright to include the following passage for discussion and learning purposes. I highly suggest buying this text if you are interested in the Daoist path of self-transformation.

 

My question is: Does this not suggest that alchemy is about transforming consciousness, and takes place on the realm of consciousness, rather than being about transforming bodily chemistry? I'd suggest that chi gung and the jing/chi/shen transformation process can aid in the consciouness-transformation, but I feel the path of self-transformation has become very side-route oriented, where people have simply built their temples in the middle of the road and started digging, hoping one day they'll find water, when in fact the river-bank has always been just over the hill and down the mountain.

 

From commentary by Liu I Ming on "The Inner Teachings of Taoism" by Chang Po-Tuan/Zhang Boduan, trans. Thomas Cleary, pp.15-16 [insertions mine]

 

"The method of alchemy involves gathering a bit of true fire of open awareness within conscious knowledge and refining out the adulterating energy of confused feelings, then gathering the true spiritual water of desirelessness within real knowledge and extinguishing the baseless [unrooted?] burning of the temperament. When the true fire [of open awareness] and spiritual water [of desirelessness] join into one, [desirelessness] water and [open awareness] fire balance each other, true feeling and spiritual essence combine, and real knowledge and conscious knowledge cleave to one another; then sense is itself essence and essence is itself sense. Utterly conscious of reality, consciousness utterly real, the unified energy functions the same as heaven and earth. This is likened to lead and mercury being forged into spiritual granules; when the firing is complete, the medicine is perfected and turns violet-gold, never again to change."

 

 

To understand what is meant by real knowledge and essence, I suggest the following from the Nei Ye:

 

 

能 正 能 靜 When you can be properly aligned and can be still
然 後 能 定 Then, you can be settled.
定 心 在 中 With a settled heart/mind in your center,
耳 目 聰 明 Your ears and eyes are acute and clear,
四 枝 堅 固 Your four limbs are hard and strong,
可 以 為 精 舍 You are able to become a dwelling for essence.
精 也 者 This essence –
氣 之 精 者 也 Is essence of Qi!
氣 道 乃 生 With Qi and Dao, then there is life;
生 乃 思 With life, then there is contemplation;
思 乃 知 With contemplation, then there is understanding;
知 乃 止 矣 When you reach understanding, then stop!
凡 心 之 形 Always : if the form of the heart/mind
過 知 失 生 Has too much understanding, life is lost

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

(A)lchemy is about transforming consciousness, and takes place on the realm of consciousness, rather than being about transforming bodily chemistry(.)

 

That seems correct to me.

 

能 正 能 靜 When you can be properly aligned and can be still
然 後 能 定 Then, you can be settled.

 

From my notes earlier;

 

Can you act as if time does not exist?

 

Can you act as if you had all the time in the world?

 

Rush, rush, rush.

 

Nothing perfect is accomplished in a rush.

...

Edited February 26, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[johndoe2012]

...

Edited January 11, 2015 by johndoe2012

[JohnC]

My question is: Does this not suggest that alchemy is about transforming consciousness, and takes place on the realm of consciousness, rather than being about transforming bodily chemistry? I'd suggest that chi gung and the jing/chi/shen transformation process can aid in the consciouness-transformation, but I feel the path of self-transformation has become very side-route oriented, where people have simply built their temples in the middle of the road and started digging, hoping one day they'll find water, when in fact the river-bank has always been just over the hill and down the mountain.

 

From commentary by Liu I Ming on "The Inner Teachings of Taoism" by Chang Po-Tuan/Zhang Boduan, trans. Thomas Cleary, pp.15-16 [insertions mine]

 

"The method of alchemy involves gathering a bit of true fire of open awareness within conscious knowledge and refining out the adulterating energy of confused feelings, then gathering the true spiritual water of desirelessness within real knowledge and extinguishing the baseless [unrooted?] burning of the temperament. When the true fire [of open awareness] and spiritual water [of desirelessness] join into one, [desirelessness] water and [open awareness] fire balance each other, true feeling and spiritual essence combine, and real knowledge and conscious knowledge cleave to one another; then sense is itself essence and essence is itself sense. Utterly conscious of reality, consciousness utterly real, the unified energy functions the same as heaven and earth. This is likened to lead and mercury being forged into spiritual granules; when the firing is complete, the medicine is perfected and turns violet-gold, never again to change."

 

Per your question,

 

That is how it occurs to me. The more I practice the more it occurs to me as a lot of nei gong taoist cultivation is an energized form of developing one pointed concentration then developing the all encompassing awareness WITH development of energy levels, dantien, etc...

 

I'm seeing and feeling a lot of cross over of Indian systems where they emphasize the development of consciousness. Just said with different labels and translated through different cultures.

 

At least where I'm at.

 

John

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

The way is universal.

 

You can intuit the way directly from close observation of the processes of life.

 

They say you have to go in, to get out.

 

Always I turn within, and seek refuge in the self.

...

Edited February 26, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[multiarms]

Thanks for posting this interesting passage.

 

My question is: Does this not suggest that alchemy is about transforming consciousness, and takes place on the realm of consciousness, rather than being about transforming bodily chemistry? I'd suggest that chi gung and the jing/chi/shen transformation process can aid in the consciouness-transformation, but I feel the path of self-transformation has become very side-route oriented, where people have simply built their temples in the middle of the road and started digging, hoping one day they'll find water, when in fact the river-bank has always been just over the hill and down the mountain.

 

The real question, it seems to me, is this - Is the physical and energetic body somehow different from consciousness? In other words, is there any fundamental difference between mental "stuff", physical matter, and energy? Is there a "realm of consciousness" separate from the realms of matter and energy?

 

In my understanding, we are not minds, inside a body, inside a world. But rather all is the display of consciousness. From this understanding, the alchemy takes on a different flavor, like consciousness dancing and playing. Instead of a struggle to break out of something or become something.

[adept]

Harmonious Emptiness, remember this thread ?

http://thetaobums.com/topic/18847-liu-i-ming-18th-century-taoist-adept/

[Wu Ming Jen]

Consciousness and open awareness are two sides of the same coin. if consciousness leads the inner government is out of order. Lu is saying they are combined into one. The unity dissolves the duallistic mind creating the unified mind, no separation between oneself and all things.

[deci belle]

I was going to say… but Wu Ming made it ring true!!

 

HE's OP of Liu's quote is a fundamental window into the heart of seeing reality.

 

 

Is the physical and energetic body somehow different from consciousness?

 

I know it does no one any good to say that the method of alchemy is the expression of a functional formlessness being the same as form, so for those in the process of actualizing the transmitted commentary by Liu I Ming on "The Inner Teachings of Taoism" by Chang Po-Tuan/Zhang Boduan, trans. Thomas Cleary, realizing the true thread of self-refinement is essential.

 

Refine the self, then await the time.

 

HE, suuch a careful one are vous.❤

 

 

My question is: Does this not suggest that alchemy is about transforming consciousness, and takes place on the realm of consciousness, rather than being about transforming bodily chemistry?

 

Refining the self is refining away the human mentality. The body goes along for the ride. The entire spectrum of energetics is a side-track for those with too much time.

 

No one has time.

[johndoe2012]

....

Edited January 11, 2015 by johndoe2012

[johndoe2012]

...

Edited January 11, 2015 by johndoe2012

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Thanks for posting this interesting passage.

 

 

The real question, it seems to me, is this - Is the physical and energetic body somehow different from consciousness? In other words, is there any fundamental difference between mental "stuff", physical matter, and energy? Is there a "realm of consciousness" separate from the realms of matter and energy?

 

In my understanding, we are not minds, inside a body, inside a world. But rather all is the display of consciousness. From this understanding, the alchemy takes on a different flavor, like consciousness dancing and playing. Instead of a struggle to break out of something or become something.

 

Very good point. Right or wrong, from my perspective and seemingly that of many others, this unity is made more present and realized with the transformation of consciousness from the typical reactive and cluttered mind/spirit to the free, open, and settled spirit.

 

You could reasonably say, too, that achieving desirelessness is something that takes place on the physical plane as well. However, the ultimate result is a transformation of the consciouness and awareness being free from these shackles, like oil being cleaned off the wings of a seagull - the transformation gives one back their true reality. The ultimate transformation is on the mind, the experience, of the bird who yearned for the return of its real nature.

 

Consciousness and open awareness are two sides of the same coin. if consciousness leads the inner government is out of order. Lu is saying they are combined into one. The unity dissolves the duallistic mind creating the unified mind, no separation between oneself and all things.

 

This is why I added the Nei Ye section, to illustrate the point you are making about the difference between conscious knowledge and real knowledge.

 

This is the challenge of talking about these things in English, difficult enough as they are, I'm sure, in Classical Chinese.

 

Awareness too, takes place on the level of consciousness (if we don't get semantically tangled up). Desirelessness is a transformation of consciousness. I think you can understand of what I really mean by consciousness.

[joeblast]

Does this not suggest that alchemy is about transforming consciousness, and takes place on the realm of consciousness, rather than being about transforming bodily chemistry?

hehe where are you drawing the line in eneregypotentials?

[Harmonious Emptiness]

hehe where are you drawing the line in eneregypotentials?

 

Well, I'm not saying that energy potentials are of no value, just that perhaps they are something separate from the transformation.

 

If we look at the quote in the opening post, we see on the consciousness side: open awareness, conscious knowledge, and desirelessness.

 

more to the energy side of things we see: refining out adulterating energy and confused feelings (I would argue this is still largely done through consciousness); true feeling and spiritual essence combine.

 

"True feeling and spiritual essence combine" appears to me (from my experience) to mean that one's feeling awareness is unadulterated and thus their spiritual essence is also pure, spontaneous, and natural. It is not confused by anger, sorrow, joy, desire, etc., the spirit is rooted in the true temperament like settled water and thus clarified, pure, and cognizant of the refined and unrefined making it simple to return to the refined/pure.

 

Not to say that simple knowledge of this is the attainment. The waters will be muddied over and over again, but the description given does appear to suggest that this is the way and process of the transformation.

 

I'm enjoying the alternate views, but they have yet to convince me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The method of alchemy involves gathering a bit of true fire of open awareness within conscious knowledge and refining out the adulterating energy of confused feelings, then gathering the true spiritual water of desirelessness within real knowledge and extinguishing the baseless [unrooted?] burning of the temperament. When the true fire [of open awareness] and spiritual water [of desirelessness] join into one, [desirelessness] water and [open awareness] fire balance each other, true feeling and spiritual essence combine, and real knowledge and conscious knowledge cleave to one another; then sense is itself essence and essence is itself sense. Utterly conscious of reality, consciousness utterly real, the unified energy functions the same as heaven and earth. This is likened to lead and mercury being forged into spiritual granules; when the firing is complete, the medicine is perfected and turns violet-gold, never again to change

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

It is a mystery of fathomless depth.

...

[joeblast]

 

 

Well,

Well...what's not an energypotential of some sort or another? Even consciousness is. Million shades of these colors.

[johndoe2012]

....

Edited January 11, 2015 by johndoe2012

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Well...what's not an energypotential of some sort or another? Even consciousness is. Million shades of these colors.

 

Why not do both - that is do your awareness practise while clearing yourself energetically and then find out for yourself in which direction to go?

 

From "The Union of Dzogchen and Bodhicitta"

 

As even modern medical science knows, the state of relaxation has enormous benefits on the body and the mind. Meditation practitioners also knows this, and so uncluttering the thoughts and desires is a beginning stage to overcoming the common limitations of mind, body, and spirit/energetic potentials.

[deci belle]

It depends on each individual. I say the body goes along for the ride because it's spontaneous at a certain level of refinement.

 

What is important for people to realize is that attachment to energy work without establishing the effective conscious development of nonpsychological work is an extremely common mistake.

 

The posts are not really taking the cue from the statement by Liu in the OP. This is understandable as people do not have a grounding in the refinement of mind establishing true practice.

 

It is neither thought nor action. It is no wonder people miss the opportunity to see and experience what Liu is saying in plain language. Since people have no affinity for this relationship with reality, and feel the relentless need to act, it is a default mode to work with energy as it employs psychosomatic processes.

 

The key to Complete Reality teachings is the dictum that if you work with the created, this is not it. The body is created, and so is the human mentality in its function as the seat of the false identity.

 

When discussing any of the Complete Reality teachings, it is to be automatically assumed that nothing described is remotely attached to energy work or just sitting.

 

One uses everyday ordinary situation to cull the real in the midst of the false.

 

Should this be so difficult to grasp?

 

What's wrong with discussing the heart of the matter as plainly presented by Liu in his commentary of Chang's classic document?

 

 

 

 

 

ed note: typo in 2nd sentence

Edited March 3, 2014 by deci belle

[Clarity]

可 以 為 精 舍 You are able to become a dwelling for essence.

 

Yes, by turning the light around!

[Harmonious Emptiness]

It depends on each individual. I say the body goes along for the ride because it's spontaneous at a certain level of refinement.

The key to Complete Reality teachings is the dictum that if you work with the created, this is not it. The body is created, and so is the human mentality in its function as the seat of the false identity.

 

To me, these two points illustrate where I am on the state of consciousness and energy work.

 

For example, the water of desirelessness may mean that from the state of desirelessness, there is a change that occurs in the body. Daoists being masters of knowledge of bodily patters, they know what's happening on the physical level and are able to describe it. Perhaps they do describe it in code, such as water meaning kidney essence which rises from the stillness of desirelessness, but teachers such as Liu I Ming do not put this explicitly because one does not need to know this for it to happen. It happens as a result of the desirelessness, and looking for it is only a hindrance to the event that will cause it to happen, ie., being in the stillness of desirelessness.

 

People do not need to know these things if they follow the advice given because it will happen, but not because they made it happen. As Deci said "if you work with the created, this is not it." Some are able to know what is happening energetically and simply observe it without getting attached, nor distracted by it, and so these nuances are also observable in the texts.

 

Nonetheless, as in my original point and post, the place that alchemy takes place is in consciousness (by broad meaning of the word), the same way driving takes place in the drivers seat and the car follows suit. If we try to drive a car by getting under the hood and turning the pistons, we're really not driving efficiently. From the drivers seat we can simply put on the breaks, turn on the lights and change gears. You feel the car moving, you hear the wheels spinning, but you stay in the drivers seat and not outside pushing the wipers.

 

All are free to disagree however.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Harmonious Emptiness

[deci belle]

Absolutely, HE …and I especially liked the 1st paragraph of your post above because I do not know anything about the subtle-body phenomena taking place except for occasionally certain things happen in the context of non-physical "organ functions" that I do notice in the form of spontaneous energy shifts from one to another …not to mention the other amazing phenomena that occur within the vague context of one's human form also described by Chang and others.

[Colonel Goji]

Thanks for these threads. They introduced me to The Secret of the Golden Flower and Thunder in the Sky. I feel grateful this morning. And with that, may we all loosen the knots of desire we are tied up in daily,

 

"If a desire arises within you, Tantra doesn’t say to fight it. That is futile. No one can fight a desire. It is foolish also, because whenever you start fighting with something within you, you are fighting with yourself, you will become schizophrenic, your personality will be split. And all these so-called religions have helped humanity to by and by become schizophrenic. Everybody is split, everybody is divided and fighting with himself because so-called religions have told you, “This is bad. Don’t do this.” If the desire comes, what to do? You go on fighting with the desire. Tantra says don’t fight the desire. But that doesn’t mean that you become a victim of it. That doesn’t mean that you indulge in it.

 

Tantra gives you a very subtle technique. When desire arises, be alert just at the beginning with your entirety. Look at it with your entirety. Become the look. Don’t leave the looker behind. Bring your total consciousness to this arising desire. This is a very subtle method, but wonderful. Miraculous are its effects.

 

With the entire being the look is so fiery that the seed is burned, with no struggle, with no conflict, with no antagonism. Just a deep look with the entire being and the arriving desire disappears completely. And when a desire disappears without a fight, it leaves you so powerful, with such immense energy, with such tremendous awareness, you cannot imagine it."