Enlightenment Is An Exclusive Destination

[C T]

Close enough. Round these parts there's only the latter anyhoo.

[plebeian]

The Principle of Oneness

 

 

Everything is interconnected in one universal harmony. Distinctions of high and low, good and bad, before and after, “the Secret” (Tao) and “its manifestations” (Teh), are all humanly created artificial tags. We use these tags to make the world around us easier to comprehend and discuss.

 

Oftentimes, one strips oneself of passion

In order to see the Secret of Life;

Oftentimes, one regards life with passion,

In order to see its manifest forms.

These two (the Secret and its manifestations)

Are (in their nature) the same;

They are given different names

When they become manifest.

 

Human beings have many limitations, whether physical, intellectual or spiritual; and we are all bound by them. Because of these limitations, and often without conscious thought, we apply our subjective biases in compartmentalizing things into individual pieces. Labeling something “good” and “bad” is how we most often do this.

 

How do you know what is good and what is bad? You know because somebody told you. If you had been raised in a different part of the world, under a different set of circumstances, your definitions of good and bad would be vastly different from what they are today. Tao is impartial. It is perfect. It makes no distinctions. Again, we are limited. We are not perfect. It would be impossible for us to live a life devoid of passion. However, we must be aware of our limitations and how they impact our ability to see what is truly happening around us.

 

What we perceive to be good and bad are actually two sides of the same coin. They are interconnected. They are one. The ingrained values that have been instilled in us since birth impede our ability to see reality clearly.

 

Often we misinterpret what may be good for us as being bad, and vice-versa. Many people are familiar with the Taoist horse farmer parable. Let’s say, as another example, that you have been called out of town to attend the most important business meeting of your career. You consider this to be good. The morning of your departure, however, you wake up late and miss your plane. Your career is most certainly finished. How terrible! But one hour after departure, the plane crashes; there are no survivors. Was missing your plane in this instance good or bad for you? The point is that you never know. You can’t know, precisely because you have limitations. Taoists understand this basic principle, and for this reason they remain cautious during any kind of change, whether it is perceived as “good” or “bad.” They are always waiting for the other shoe to drop. If it does, their expectations are correct. They are not surprised. They are prepared to deal with it.

 

There are lots of flowery writings about the Tao and the Tao Te Ching. I’m guilty of producing some of them. It's simple to say that if you are in a difficult situation, just wait and the circumstances will change. They will. The same applies if you are in a great situation. Enjoy those while they last. Wait long enough and situations reverse and revert, that is how the Tao works. When you are in the rough spots it can be downright scary, depressing and awful. Few words help you find comfort in those situations. Let's face it; life is a sinusoid of mostly bullshit. Bullshit ups and bullshit downs, most caused needlessly and artificially by the walking dead consumer corporate cultists around us just making shit up, recessions, depressions, bubbles, bull markets, bear markets, holidays, tragedies, celebrations. The architects of modern life are those who have drunk the proverbial Kool-Aid and the Taoist are just trying to avoid the line for the next serving without drawing too much attention to themselves.

 

What appealed to me most about the Taoist philosophy is there is no denying the bullshit. There is no rising above it. There is only the individually learning to live within in it as successfully as he possibly can. The Tao Te Ching provides some incredibly useful tools and techniques to help us spot the absurdity, to help us deflect it and to thrive and to find contentment wherever we can. I think it's worth more than a causal read. It's worth studying. There are hundreds and maybe thousand so translations, most filtered through the Judeo-Christian biasis of the translator. "The Wisdom of Laotse" by Lin Yutang is a masterpiece clear translation. The book is out of print but you can find it on Ebay and other places that specialize in out of print books.

[GrandmasterP]

Amazon have some but they are silly prices

http://www.amazon.co.uk/THE-WISDOM-LAOTSE-Lin-Yutang/dp/B000RZERJS/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1395697706&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=The+wisdom+of+LaoTse+by+Lin+Youtang

[deci belle]

Enlightment is an exclusive destination and only someone who has a map can show you how to find it. It's not an obvious path. You need a guide, a teacher.

 

Some do try take a bullet train to get there... Take that train and you might not be prepared to comprehend what you see when you arrive, worse still you might not come back in tact.

 

One first needs to be aware that nothing is gained by complete perfect enlightenment because those who see their nature realize that no one is not just this aware nature already without beginning.

 

Enlightenment is simply awakening for the first time to the nature of your own essential mind, which underlies the false consciousness of your identities of personality and is the means of your own animated existence right now. There is no other mind.

 

As such, a true teacher has nothing to give you or show you that is not already yourself.

 

The bullet-train is just seeing the world as yourself and proceeding according to events without entertaining speculative relationships relative to self and other. There is no thing. Self-refinement is proving that fact in everyday ordinary affairs over and over and over until nothing sticks to you and the world has no hold on you.

 

Independent and free, who needs a bullet train or a teacher?

 

 

 

 

 

ed note: change "of" to "or" in last sentence

Edited March 25, 2014 by deci belle

[Horus]

Enlightment is an exclusive destination and only someone who has a map can show you how to find it. It's not an obvious path. You need a guide, a teacher.

 

Some do try take a bullet train to get there... Take that train and you might not be prepared to comprehend what you see when you arrive, worse still you might not come back in tact.

 

It's not a destination, its a journey, one that we paradoxically have taken many times.

 

We are the map. It becomes not obvious as soon as you think its a path - thus placing it outside of you.

 

You are a guide, and a grand teacher.

 

For most of us - we are in this state because we are in varying degrees of refusal to accept and see who we truly are. We are already there, just facing away from the responsibility of being all of it.

 

Humanity is choosing this. We did not fall, we jumped.

 

Whatever, all things return to the light.

 

You can jump in front of that bullet train for as many lifetimes as you like you will still be intact - thus is the compassion of the universe that you are.

 

It's only as exclusive as it is entirely inclusive.

[GrandmasterP]

A good teacher is handy but not necessarily essential to have for any course of learning and development.

There are some real shysters out there passing themselves off as gurus.

Caveat Emptor.

[plebeian]

Amazon have some but they are silly prices http://www.amazon.co.uk/THE-WISDOM-LAOTSE-Lin-Yutang/dp/B000RZERJS/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1395697706&sr8-2-spell&keywords=The+wisdom+of+LaoTse+by+Lin+Youtang

You can also find a free translation by Lin Yutang here. http://terebess.hu/english/tao/yutang.html

 

In "The Wisdom of Laotse" Lin Yutang translated the Tao Te Ching and combined it with the Chuangtse essays that were relevant to each of the 81 chapters.

 

The litmus test for any translation of the Tao Te Ching is Chapter 5, Nature.

 

The first stanza in Lin Yutang's translation reads:

 

Nature is Unkind:

It treats the creation like sacrificial straw-dogs.

The Sage is unkind:

He treats people like sacrifial straw-dogs.

 

Probably the most popular translation available, Stephen Mitchell's, reads:

 

The Tao doesn't take sides;

it gives birth to both good and evil.

The Master doesn't take sides;

she welcomes both saints and sinners.

 

Note the drastic difference between the two translations. One appears to be filtered through the preconceived ideas of someone heavily influenced by Judeo-Christian ideals, resorting to the use of words like saints and sinners, good and evil, even throwing in the word she to give a nod modern day conventional social values and political correctness.

 

The Tao Te Ching was written from the perspective of the individual. Nature is not impartial. It is unkind. It is unkind to me!! It's not a great deal to have to live with the physical aspects of aging, disease, heartbreak, loss and disappointment. Sure the disappointments are interspersed with moments of health, joy, contentment and happiness but the cruelness of all of that is those things will be taken away; and we know it! Nature may treat things with indifference, "like sacrificial straw-dogs" but it sure feels personal to me when I'm the one subjected to its wrath. Mitchell missed that point. Lin Yutang captured the harmony of it.

 

For the fun of it, compare chapter 5 of Lin Yutang’s translation to other translations you might have read. Please share what you find with the rest of us.

[Stosh]

 

Amazon have some but they are silly prices http://www.amazon.co.uk/THE-WISDOM-LAOTSE-Lin-Yutang/dp/B000RZERJS/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1395697706&sr8-2-spell&keywords=The+wisdom+of+LaoTse+by+Lin+Youtang

You can also find a free translation by Lin Yutang here. http://terebess.hu/english/tao/yutang.html

 

In "The Wisdom of Laotse" Lin Yutang translated the Tao Te Ching and combined it with the Chuangtse essays that were relevant to each of the 81 chapters.

 

The litmus test for any translation of the Tao Te Ching is Chapter 5, Nature.

 

The first stanza in Lin Yutang's translation reads:

 

Nature is Unkind:

It treats the creation like sacrificial straw-dogs.

The Sage is unkind:

He treats people like sacrifial straw-dogs.

 

Probably the most popular translation available, Stephen Mitchell's, reads:

 

The Tao doesn't take sides;

it gives birth to both good and evil.

The Master doesn't take sides;

she welcomes both saints and sinners.

 

Note the drastic difference between the two translations. One appears to be filtered through the preconceived ideas of someone heavily influenced by Judeo-Christian ideals, resorting to the use of words like saints and sinners, good and evil, even throwing in the word she to give a nod modern day conventional social values and political correctness.

 

The Tao Te Ching was written from the perspective of the individual. Nature is not impartial. It is unkind. It is unkind to me!! It's not a great deal to have to live with the physical aspects of aging, disease, heartbreak, loss and disappointment. Sure the disappointments are interspersed with moments of health, joy, contentment and happiness but the cruelness of all of that is those things will be taken away; and we know it! Nature may treat things with indifference, "like sacrificial straw-dogs" but it sure feels personal to me when I'm the one subjected to its wrath. Mitchell missed that point. Lin Yutang captured the harmony of it.

 

For the fun of it, compare chapter 5 of Lin Yutang’s translation to other translations you might have read. Please share what you find with the rest of us.

Why is this repost here? Comment or illustration?

I dont agree that Mitchells translation of that chapter requires that his own preconception be Judeo Christian , as I read it , the point is anti-'good-bad paradigm' , so the presentation is just using the normal speech paradigm, to explain this point to someone who is not already enlightened about the unreality of 'good vs bad'.

 

One doesnt wisely choose to speak Tagalog to an Eskimo.

[Brian]

It was a mangled quote rather than a repost. Should have had a "[\quote]" code after the first line.

 

*** Steward's Comment ***

After consultation with plebeian, this thread has been relocated from The Lobby to General Discussions.

*** \Steward's Comment ***

Edited March 25, 2014 by Brian

[Infinity]

Enlightment is an exclusive destination and only someone who has a map can show you how to find it. It's not an obvious path. You need a guide, a teacher.

 

Some do try take a bullet train to get there... Take that train and you might not be prepared to comprehend what you see when you arrive, worse still you might not come back in tact.

 

Is it a destination? Is it somewhere you can get too? My understanding it is 'me' here and now.

 

∞

[Marblehead]

Just popping in to make a comment. Enlightenment is not a destination. Enlightenment is a path one follows once one understands that there is no destination.

[9th]

Bodhi (Sanskrit: बोधि; and Pali) in Buddhism is the understanding possessed by a Buddha regarding the nature of things. It is traditionally translated into English with the word enlightenment and literally means awakened.

 

Bodhi is an abstract noun formed from the verbal root budh (to awake, become aware, notice, know or understand) corresponding to the verbs bujjhati (Pāli) and bodhati or budhyate (Sanskrit). Also from the same root are the Sanskrit words bodha (also meaning knowledge or intelligence) and buddhi which is the exact equivalent to the Greek word nous.

 

Prajñā (Sanskrit: प्रज्ञा) or paññā (Pāli) in Buddhism is wisdom, understanding, discernment, insight, or cognitive acuity. It is one of three divisions of the Noble Eightfold Path. Such wisdom is understood to exist in the universal flux of being and can be intuitively experienced through meditation. In some sects of Buddhism, it is especially the wisdom that is based on the direct realization of such things as the four noble truths, impermanence, interdependent origination, non-self and emptiness. Prajñā is the wisdom that is able to extinguish afflictions (kleśas) and bring about enlightenment.

• jñā can be translated as "consciousness", "knowledge", or "understanding."^[1]
• Pra is an intensifier which could be translated as "higher", "greater", "supreme" or "premium",^[2] or "being born or springing up",^[3] referring to a spontaneous type of knowing.

Jnana or gnana or gnaan (Sanskrit; Pali: jñāna) is a Sanskrit word that means knowledge. It has various nuances of meaning depending on the context, and is used in a number of different Indian religions. The idea of jnana centers around a cognitive event which is recognized when experienced.^[1] It is knowledge inseparable from the total experience of reality, especially a total reality,^[1] or supreme being within Mahesha-dhama (and/or material world) such as Siva-Sakti.^[2]

 

Gnosis is the common Greek noun for knowledge (in the nominative case γνῶσις f.). In Christian, Islamic, or Jewish mysticism, mystery religions and Gnosticism gnosis generally signifies a spiritual knowledge or "religion of knowledge", in the sense of mystical enlightenment or "insight". Gnosis taught a deliverance of man from the constraints of earthly existence through insight into an essential relationship, as soul or spirit, with a supramundane place of freedom.

[Starjumper]

I dont agree that Mitchells translation of that chapter requires that his own preconception be Judeo Christian

 

He wasn't translating, he was emoting.

[plebeian]

"Some messengers shoot back"! Now that's funny.

[plebeian]

The Futility of Words

 

Words are useful in conveying meaning. However, actions are more important than words.

 

Where can I find a man who forgets about words? A bait is used to catch fish. When you have gotten the fish, you can forget about the bait. A rabbit trap is used to catch rabbits. When the rabbits are caught, you can forget about the trap. Words are used to express meaning, when you understand the meaning, you can forget about the words. Where can I find a man who forgets about words to talk with him?

The Wisdom of Laotse, Lin Yutang, 313

No one can say it any more clearly than Laotse. Words express meaning. Once the meaning is understood, the words may be discarded. Too often we fixate on the complexity of language. We allow ourselves to be seduced by the ideas of a good talker – by promises. The good talker uses words as a means to deceive and lead us from our individual paths.

 

Taoists use a simple two-word method to check the validity of what a good talker is saying. It’s called “show me!” Words not supported by proof, by action, fall short of the objective. They are useless.

[GrandmasterP]

Rossiter, Phyllis. "I'm from Missouri--you'll have to show me." Rural Missouri, Volume 42, Number 3, March 1989, page 16.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Taoists use a simple two-word method to check the validity of what a good talker is saying. It’s called “show me!” Words not supported by proof, by action, fall short of the objective. They are useless.

 

Show, don't tell.

...

[ChiForce]

Said the Joker.

Hahaha...yes, I supposed you will become the teacher here.... Seriously, you have no ideas what you are talking about...your rants miss one crucial point...how do you see yourself? Do you know what you yourself is wrapped in what illusions? The source of all illusions begins from you, yourself, your life and your perspectives. Is what you see yourself.... What sorts of transcendental truths you have perceived of yourself so far? Come back here later when you can answer my question? Besides, you must remember that there are thousands of immortals who have become enlightened throughout the ages (think of thousands of years). Whatever you think you have discovered isn't anything new.

Edited March 29, 2014 by ChiForce

[ChiForce]

Oh, BTW, one can't talk about enlightenment unless you have found and entered one of the 84k dharma gates.

[C T]

Hahaha...yes, I supposed you will become the teacher here.... Seriously, you have no ideas what you are talking about...your rants miss one crucial point...how do you see yourself? Do you know what you yourself is wrapped in what illusions? The source of all illusions begins from you, yourself, your life and your perspectives. Is what you see yourself.... What sorts of transcendental truths you have perceived of yourself so far? Come back here later when you can answer my question? Besides, you must remember that there are thousands of immortals who have become enlightened throughout the ages (think of thousands of years). Whatever you think you have discovered isn't anything new.

On what do you base these assumptions and challenge, Chi Force? What transcendental truths have you made a connection with?

 

I sense that the OP was merely on a process of assembling his/her realizations. Did he/she claimed to be enlightened? I must have missed the post if there was such a claim made.

 

I also do not see the point of your post above re: the 84k Dharma gates. Please help to elaborate?

 

Thank you.

[ChiForce]

On what do you base these assumptions and challenge, Chi Force? What transcendental truths have you made a connection with?

 

I sense that the OP was merely on a process of assembling his/her realizations. Did he/she claimed to be enlightened? I must have missed the post if there was such a claim made.

 

I also do not see the point of your post above re: the 84k Dharma gates. Please help to elaborate?

 

Thank you.

Hehehehe......experiences. To uncling the illusions and suffering from the your own skandha of form by perceiving its original nature...which is impermanent. This isn't some lip service thing here. You must uncling this illusions which would result in your change of life styles, habits, and world views. This will unleash your Kundalini energy (literally), period. The Dharma gates are boundless and tied to your own karmic affinities or connections, in your current life time with your own current issues. That is the knot you must unknot yourself. After that, you will receive guidance from various immortals and other spirits through dreams and visions. The rest of the path is about walking through the experience one step at a time. Talking and preaching??? You will be lucky if you didn't go crazy or being wrapped up by your past life karma throughout the process.

 

There...done.

 

And of course, once you have entered through the Dharma gate, you will continue to refine your mind by meditation. And to refine your ability to enter to various states of Samadhi and to acquire various transcendental wisdom. And hopefully, by the time you are done with this world and ready to pass away, you would have enough merits to ascend to one of the heavenly realms, where you may not need to reborn again for another couple of hundreds of years. Maybe you can even obtain the complete liberation in this life time.

Edited March 29, 2014 by ChiForce

[dee]

Heads = Enlightenment , tails = unenlightened.

 

I flipped a coin 7 times, and it finally landed on heads.

Enlightened ✓

 

 

Edited March 29, 2014 by dee

[C T]

Hehehehe......experiences. To uncling the illusions and suffering from the your own skandha of form by perceiving its original nature...which is impermanent. This isn't some lip service thing here. You must uncling this illusions which would result in your change of life styles, habits, and world views. This will unleash your Kundalini energy (literally), period. The Dharma gates are boundless and tied to your own karmic affinities or connections, in your current life time with your own current issues. That is the knot you must unknot yourself. After that, you will receive guidance from various immortals and other spirits through dreams and visions. The rest of the path is about walking through the experience one step at a time. Talking and preaching??? You will be lucky if you didn't go crazy or being wrapped up by your past life karma throughout the process.

 

There...done.

 

And of course, once you have entered through the Dharma gate, you will continue to refine your mind by meditation. And to refine your ability to enter to various states of Samadhi and to acquire various transcendental wisdom. And hopefully, by the time you are done with this world and ready to pass away, you would have enough merits to ascend to one of the heavenly realms, where you may not need to reborn again for another couple of hundreds of years. Maybe you can even obtain the complete liberation in this life time.

May i ask, how is this 'unclinging' and 'unknotting' to be (un)done?

 

Also, how does one go about refining the ability to enter the various states of samadhi?

 

Which tradition have you adopted to arrive at such an interesting insight? Surely not Buddhist?

[ChiForce]

May i ask, how is this 'unclinging' and 'unknotting' to be (un)done?

 

Also, how does one go about refining the ability to enter the various states of samadhi?

 

Which tradition have you adopted to arrive at such an interesting insight? Surely not Buddhist?

I have to ask the 2 brothers, dressed in the Han dynasty clothing, I saw in my vision/dream, prior to my kundalini energy raising...some 20 years ago. Taoist perhaps..... Zen's transmission of the mind?? You can also look up Pratyekabuddha yana if you like.. And you think it isn't Buddhist? And based on your experiences, perhaps??? How to uncling? Try psychoanalysis or Carl Jung's Analytical Psychology. Surely, with the modern age we are living in, even if you aren't well versed in the Buddhist teachings, you should be able to have some ideas about the nature of your suffering and illusions derived from your attachment to the skandha of forms.

 

If you have more questions, try to read up on Master Nan Huai Chin's works. I walk the path. I don't preach it...see no need to. Don't have to prove anything....

[C T]

I have to ask the 2 brothers, dressed in the Han dynasty clothing, I saw in my vision/dream, prior to my kundalini energy raising...some 20 years ago. Taoist perhaps..... Zen's transmission of the mind?? You can also look up Pratyekabuddha yana if you like.. And you think it isn't Buddhist? And based on your experiences, perhaps??? How to uncling? Try psychoanalysis or Carl Jung's Analytical Psychology. Surely, with the modern age we are living in, even if you aren't well versed in the Buddhist teachings, you should be able to have some ideas about the nature of your suffering and illusions derived from your attachment to the skandha of forms.

 

If you have more questions, try to read up on Master Nan Huai Chin's works. I walk the path. I don't preach it...see no need to. Don't have to prove anything....

Again, such interesting propositions. Thank you!