Enlightenment Is An Exclusive Destination

[johndoe2012]

...

Edited January 11, 2015 by johndoe2012

[plebeian]

Humanity and Justice

 

Humanity and Justice is the term that Laotse and Chuangtse use to describe artificial social values. To understand the original nature of humanity, watch children at play. Inevitably one of the first words they utter is the word “mine!” This is because self-interest is what governs all human behavior, and this trait is not yet tainted in children. Through formal education and training, and the administration of rewards and punishments, children are eventually taught to be “good.” Good is a relative term defined by the social norms of the day.

 

Taoism is the philosophy of the individual. Humanity and Justice places the needs of strangers before the needs of the self. Doctrines of humanity and justice therefore run contrary to human nature. They create confusion, discontent and obscure the vision of the spiritual eye. They cause misery.

In the days of Ho Hsu, the people did nothing in particular at their homes and went nowhere in particular in their walks. Having food, they rejoiced; tapping their bellies, they wandered about. Thus far the natural capacities of the people carried them. The Sages came then to make them bow and bend with ceremonies and music, in order to regulate the external forms of intercourse, and dangled humanity and justice before them, in order to keep their minds in submission. Then the people began to labor and develop a taste for knowledge, and to struggle with one another in their desire for gain, to which there is no end. This is the error of the Sages.

The Wisdom of Laotse, Lin Yutang, 288

 

Humanity and Justice is perhaps one of the most difficult Taoist principles to grasp. Distrusting conventional Judeo-Christian values is something that runs contrary to what most of us have been taught from birth. Because these values are so ingrained in us, it will initially feel uncomfortable to question them. That’s normal.

 

So if Taoists do not subscribe to the doctrines of Humanity and Justice, what do they believe? They believe in cultivating their individual paths. They have no desire to interfere with or change the way society thinks. Instead, they seek to understand themselves and to limit the pressures that external sources place upon them. They seek to understand the difference between their needs and their desires, which are fueled by contemporary messages encouraging people to sacrifice themselves by striving to achieve a higher social status, work harder, make more money, and consume more.

[GrandmasterP]

Interesting post plebeian.

Say we are steeped in Judaeo- Christian concepts due to upbringing then look for something different and plump for Taoism.

First stop would likely be TTC and it's kinda like the 'scriptures' we've maybe been familiar with.

Laid out in Chapters and Verses and all.

Now Christianity pushes that 'one true faith' schtick.

That goes deep and maybe someone coming to TTC having rejected Christianity is looking at or for a replacement 'one true faith' simply due to their conceptual baggage from Xtianity that there must be some 'one true faith' even if that isn't Xtianity.

"I believe in Jesus."

( well not any more) hence...

" I believe in Taoism."

So now we're in the realms of comparative religion but our comparator is basically still Xtian ...

" There MUST be one true faith."

Comparative religion is just 'old'.

Here's some from 1567- ish.

"Some say it is hard to see reality-nature by studying Zen. But what about studying Taoism to become an immortal?"

I respond: Not to cultivate the Pure Land and instead want to study Taoism to become an immortal is like throwing away a fine jade that's in front of your eyes to seek an imitation jade that you cannot necessarily get. Isn't this an illusion?...

When the people of the world today study Taoism to become immortals, not one in ten thousand succeeds ... Because they are attached to their bodies and their spirits, and cannot relinquish them."

( Master Tsung- yen in ' Direct Pointing Back to the Source).

 

Now that's blatant Pure Land propaganda . He's dissing Taoism big style and Zen to a lesser extent whilst bigging up Pure Land which just happens to be Tsung-yen's own cultivation of choice.

 

"Taoism good... All else not so good." - type claims serve naught beyond self affirmation or convincement.

Surely it is as risible today to big up one spiritual path label above any other path as ever it was.

What works for one may not work for another.

It would be a short-lived restaurant that had just the one meal on its menu.

Edited March 30, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Gerard]

Enlightment is an exclusive destination and only someone who has a map can show you how to find it. It's not an obvious path. You need a guide, a teacher.

It's not like that. We all get there, some sooner than others due to the lifetimes requirement. Hundreds I believe and many of them in human form purifying the mind. It's like swimming in a river, the closer you get to the river mouth (the sea is enlightenment) the better it gets in terms of understanding and grasping the nature of existence and role of the mind.

[ChiForce]

Interesting post plebeian.

Say we are steeped in Judaeo- Christian concepts due to upbringing then look for something different and plump for Taoism.

First stop would likely be TTC and it's kinda like the 'scriptures' we've maybe been familiar with.

Laid out in Chapters and Verses and all.

Now Christianity pushes that 'one true faith' schtick.

That goes deep and maybe someone coming to TTC having rejected Christianity is looking at or for a replacement 'one true faith' simply due to their conceptual baggage from Xtianity that there must be some 'one true faith' even if that isn't Xtianity.

"I believe in Jesus."

( well not any more) hence...

" I believe in Taoism."

So now we're in the realms of comparative religion but our comparator is basically still Xtian ...

" There MUST be one true faith."

Comparative religion is just 'old'.

Here's some from 1567- ish.

"Some say it is hard to see reality-nature by studying Zen. But what about studying Taoism to become an immortal?"

I respond: Not to cultivate the Pure Land and instead want to study Taoism to become an immortal is like throwing away a fine jade that's in front of your eyes to seek an imitation jade that you cannot necessarily get. Isn't this an illusion?...

When the people of the world today study Taoism to become immortals, not one in ten thousand succeeds ... Because they are attached to their bodies and their spirits, and cannot relinquish them."

( Master Tsung- yen in ' Direct Pointing Back to the Source).

 

Now that's blatant Pure Land propaganda . He's dissing Taoism big style and Zen to a lesser extent whilst bigging up Pure Land which just happens to be Tsung-yen's own cultivation of choice.

 

"Taoism good... All else not so good." - type claims serve naught beyond self affirmation or convincement.

Surely it is as risible today to big up one spiritual path label above any other path as ever it was.

What works for one may not work for another.

It would be a short-lived restaurant that had just the one meal on its menu.

Hehehe...looks like he has a long, long way to go. No one said unclinging one's illusions is easy.....

[deci belle]

It may be an exclusive experience, but upon seeing one's nature, it is none the less affirmed in terms of the knowledge of impersonal awareness that there has never been anyone who wasn't already just this mind, this experience beyond the buddhas of all three times.

 

Shakyamuni Buddha also said this and also said that absolutely nothing is gained by complete perfect enlightenment.

 

The houses of Chan say that they have nothing to give anyone.

 

The map is unique to each and every individual with the will to enlightenment.

 

Inasmuch as just this mind is enlightenment itself, and there is no other mind, one need only turn the light of one's own mind inward to illumine the source of the experience of all prior illuminates.

[deci belle]

Furthermore, the map that the OP makes reference to is just the course of one's gradual approach leading to the sudden. But the gradual and the sudden are one from beginning to end.

 

In the aftermath of the sudden, since one has not gained anything by this absolute singularity, one is no different than before. Because all beings are just this as well, and have always without beginning radiated this singular conscious awareness, one is no different than others.

 

The gradual path in the aftermath of the sudden is no different than before, only now one's compulsions are eliminated.

 

After seeing one's essence, one knows there is nothing whatsoever to know. At this time, one can abandon fascinations and take the single step forward and accept one's function amidst the teeming marketplace. Here one can trust one's luck and begin to share oneself completely with creation. Holding or releasing are up to oneself alone.

 

Abandoning fascinations is just stepping over the whole of eternity without effort and entering the authentic path of prior illuminates for the first time. It is simply a matter of knowing there is nothing to know; realizing it is impossible to miss out on anything. One has already long since forgotten speculative relationships based on circumstantial interpretations.

 

Enlightenment is the entry level experience, not a destination. It may be the end of the road of delusion, but it is the trailhead for buddhas lying just beyond the fascinations glinting in the profound depths of the beginningless trickling stream of eternity.

 

Just step over lightly; the path is well worn. Prior illuminates await you on a gradual rise.❤

 

If one begins to see in this way, regardless of mystical experience, one enters the path automatically without having to wait for entry-level experience to express the function of enlightening being; the sudden arrives of its own accord as a sympathetic resonance of one's authentic affinity with the Way.

 

 

 

 

 

ed note: add last sentence

Edited April 2, 2014 by deci belle

[GrandmasterP]

Nice posts deci belle.

Edited April 2, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[deci belle]

Oh thank you, mr P!!❤ I just came back to add one more thing to that one…

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Beware.

 

She intimidate me!

 

Ha ha ha!

 

Yeah.

 

What can I say.

 

I can't add to what Deci says.

 

I just go and think about it.

...

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

The sudden was not gentle with me you know.

 

Not at all.

 

I caught fire.

 

I radiate heat.

 

I'm the f**kin' human torch.

 

I shouldn't say these things.

 

It caught me by the shoulders.

 

By the scruff of the neck.

 

Like a rough, uncaring cat mother picks up a kitten in its jaws.

 

And shook me like a rag doll.

 

Puppet on a string.

 

Ugh.

...

Edited April 3, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[plebeian]

Faith is used to keep the herd in line. When the sages have explained everything to the point where they don't even understand what they are trying to explain anymore, they use faith to fill the chasm between reality and the shit they just made up. I used to ask the master sometimes, "Would it be better to just be unaware and happy as a clam like the herd or is it better to have the vision to see what's really going on?" It was usually over a few drinks when he was completely unreserved. He'd get really annoyed with me. For one thing what is seen can never be unseen. Once you become truly aware you are stuck I'm that state of awareness. Ask yourself, would you choose to spiritually handicap yourself so you could live like the other lambs to the slaughter? Happy, but unaware of an unable to avoid the impending horror to come. Sometimes I still wonder even though I know it's an asinine thought. He used to quote someone he heard say once, "America is a well run labor camp....with double rations." Give them their bread and circus and don't stick your hands in the cages constructed of conventional social values. We've optimized human productivity because the slaves now whip themselves. It's very cost effective and better yet we no longer have to pay homage to the organized religion, that's been replaced by the media. Eventually all churches, synagogues, temples and the like will be converted to trendy bars and condos and in rural areas, warehouses. The master asked me once, "Do you know the difference between ants and humans?" His answer....."Television."

Edited April 4, 2014 by plebeian

[maheosphet]

Could enlightenment be both is and isn't a destination?

[ralis]

A destination implies that there is an elapsed time between not being enlightened and being enlightened. My research indicates that time is an illusion.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

When the sages have explained everything to the point where they don't even understand what they are trying to explain anymore, they use faith to fill the chasm between reality and the shit they just made up.

 

Now that's just hysterical.

 

You guys crack me up.

 

Knock it off or I'll split my sides.

...

Edited April 4, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[maheosphet]

A destination implies that there is an elapsed time between not being enlightened and being enlightened. My research indicates that time is an illusion.

 

I don't see where you get that implication. To me Destination implies a place to go.

[maheosphet]

It seems like there could be a going without a you to do the going?

 

If there can be a coming and/or going with and/or without you then both are true and false, and the answer is relative to each perspective.

 

From the perspective of self, one might see a mountain to summit, a hurdle to conquer, a prize to attain, a cake at the end of the maze.

 

Yet it is along the way that all of these ideals vanish, only to reappear in a new way.

 

This vanishing is the void which cleans the slate, presenting a fresh perspective in pure observation.

 

This void seemingly empty has directions to travel which were previously unknown, unfathomable in 3-dimensions, being a line of the fourth. A fractal like shrinking and expanding.

 

Space isn't empty, it only appears so.

Edited April 4, 2014 by maheosphet

[Yascra]

The master asked me once, "Do you know the difference between ants and humans?" His answer....."Television."

 

What makes you think that guy was a master?

 

Sounds more like kind of a negative person to me.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Yascra

[maheosphet]

The void is child's play compared to chaos.

[ralis]

I don't see where you get that implication. To me Destination implies a place to go.

 

There is no destination, place or thing.

[maheosphet]

There is a going, yet the destination may not be known, clearly defined or properly considered.

 

"A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving." - Lao Tzu

 

Here is destination, a place to arrive. Now is a destination, in ever presence, always there even if unseen.

Edited April 4, 2014 by maheosphet

[deci belle]

There is no destination, place or thing.

 

Yet there is going without coming; returning without having gone.

 

As for ants and people, mind is not two. The master has it right. Ants don't entertain the consciousness of television. The consciousness of television is eternity, which is stepped over resolutely by the intrepid.

 

 

 

 

ed note: add bit about ants

Edited April 4, 2014 by deci belle

[plebeian]

There are generally two schools of thoughts. Enlightment is a process and it takes time ot achieve it. The second school of thought is that is that it comes in the form of an epiphany. Poof, you are enlightened. I believe it's a process with platueas of deep insight. We've all had the experience where we've stared at a problem for a very long time and then suddenly it all seems to make sense. If feels like the undertanding was instantaneous but in reality it was the staring at the problem that brought you to the epiphany. It's the reflection.

 

The bullet train is reaching the spiritual realm by using subtances such as DMT, ayahuaska, LSD, etc. I"ve never done any of it myself but have watched with great interest, the people who relate their experiences. I especially love watching people flip out on salvia. I could watch those videos all day. I asked my local red neck sage what the fun of salvia was. He said, "The fun is not doing it, the fun is getting other people to do it then watching what happens to them."

 

The people on these chemically induced trips describe experiences very similar to what I personally experience when doing a specific kind of Taoist meditation. You need a teacher to learn how to do it. You wont' read about it in a book. The dissimilaries in the exsperience however are that while during the Taoist meditation I never threw up, freaked out or shit myself like those brave souls who travel to Peru. I don't discount the ayahuasca experience. In fact I'm very curious about it. I just think that there is probably a lot more to the experience then just taking the drug. The locals probably spend years with the Shaman in prepaparing to do it and in interpreting what they saw.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Put your best foot forward.

 

Leave good footprints behind.

 

And all ways, All Ways;

 

...

Edited April 4, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[maheosphet]

If you consider destination only in a conventional sense, then you miss the gest.