What Are "Legitimate" Qi Abilities/Power?

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

IN MY OPINION- Mo Pai should be separated from John Chang.

 

In the western world, there might as well be No Mo Pai.

 

72 levels- and all unknown -minus 2.

Though those two levels are potent- and can be used a lifetime (a short lifetime)

 

 

That's like playing chess with 2 chess pieces.

 

Is it still Chess?

 

The Bushmen have an excellent system- but try learning it.

 

Now I will state- IN MY EXPERIENCE- some of what westerners call Mo Pai has some built in trip-n-falls

 

http://www.freeenterprise.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/media/00_REGS_shutterstock_57651082_clown_659px.jpg

 

However, I hear Dragon Ball Z is a very good system

I've said this to others and now to you.

 

You either want something real or you want to play make believe.

 

Mo pai level one even if that's all we will ever have will lead you to a level that almost no one else on earth is at.

 

Almost everyone else on earth dies with a completely empty LDT, even people pursuing spiritual practices.

 

Mo Pai level one is a real practice, and even by itself more complete than virtually every other system you've ever heard about or anyone else has either.

 

The question is do you want something real, or do you just want to keep yourself entertained till you die?

Edited March 2, 2014 by Thunder_Gooch

[Ya Mu]

 

Just want to try to clarify something, as the above statement may be misleading. The two most well known qigong practitioners I have seen on video demonstrating setting something on fire using qi projection were the man who is known as 'John Chang' in the west, and Jiang Feng. Both of these people were doing these demonstrations with the stated intent of demonstrating what is possible using qi externalization, to the people who were observing. If a person can project qi in that sort of way, they can also likely use this same ability in healing or in other ways as well. It is well known that John Chang ran a clinic in Indonesia for many years in which he used his qigong and acupuncture abilities for healing others, and it has been stated that he never charged for this service. Jiang Feng also currently runs a full time Chinese TCM/qigong clinic in China in which he and his associates use their qigong abilities and TCM practices for providing healing treatments for many people. Jiang Feng's special herbal treatments can be very expensive however, from what I understand.

Not misleading. Setting something on fire and medical qigong are two totally different things approached in two totally different ways, with the exception of basic gongfu. One does not imply the other.

Let me give an example of what I am referring to. Go up to a practitioner who has reached a good level with qi projection and is knowledgeable in medical qigong and ask them to set something on fire. No harm done - you asked. But MOST will either laugh at you or ignore you as it serves no purpose regardless of whether they could or could not do it. Now go up to a person who can set something on fire and ask them to work on a particular dis-ease. Would most people want to be worked on simply because the practitioner could set something on fire and were thought to be "powerful"? Knowledge of one doesn't imply the other.

 

I have no problem with John Chang or anyone else doing their healing work and applaud it. Personally, I see nothing whatsoever about setting something on fire as a good thing to promote qi manipulation and it dang sure doesn't promote medical qigong. I think the most thing I have seen with it is that it brings out those who want to duplicate it so they can show off at parties (Oh man is that cool!). It also brings about threads on forums so people can talk like they know something about qi manipulation when in fact they have never actually practiced it nor studied it.

 

If a person wishes to study medical qigong that is what they should study. It is a whole and complicated field of study just like western medicine is a whole and complicated field of study.

 

The whole lighting paper on fire with chi has caused so much harm, I would disappear as well if I promoted anything of the sort.

Something as natural and simple as our own intrinsic energy leaves no questions or a need for belief.

 

It is when people try to promote some kind of authority or power that it all goes wrong. Power and greed among other things is just corruption for there being something to gain, fame or whatever.

 

 

I personally know numerous masters with true skill healing and martial, young and old but outsiders should not be mislead by anything that is not useful and does not benefit the person and all things.

 

Mo pia should serve as a perfect example of a system corrupted and gone wrong, leading people into a fantasy world and escape from reality. The weak have a need for such things instead of fully engaging in life's ups, downs, good, bad and all the rest.

 

 

IN MY OPINION- Mo Pai should be separated from John Chang.

 

In the western world, there might as well be No Mo Pai.

 

72 levels- and all unknown -minus 2.

Though those two levels are potent- and can be used a lifetime (a short lifetime)

 

 

That's like playing chess with 2 chess pieces.

 

Is it still Chess?

 

The Bushmen have an excellent system- but try learning it.

 

Now I will state- IN MY EXPERIENCE- some of what westerners call Mo Pai has some built in trip-n-falls

 

 

However, I hear Dragon Ball Z is a very good system

 

Does anyone here comprehend how vast Asia is, and how many adepts there are over there whose skills and mastery are on par, if not supersede John Chang's (benefit of doubt given that he indeed possesses some juice)? Its really a waste of time to regurgitate mo pai ala john chang as if this combination is the new viagra of the hype-filled world of nei gung or whatever Gung it should be appropriately called.

 

If anyone has the financial means, do leave the confines of where you are cozy at, and take an extended tour of countries like Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, Thailand, Malaysia and Japan... just to expand one's horizons, and really see for oneself, up close, whats out there in terms of fruits of years of cultivation practices. Doing so really helps to overcome a lot of limitations and skewed views.

 

Good posts.

 

Please do refrain from bad mouthing a system or its master, when you have no real knowledge of the system. It is easy to sit in your room passing judgement. What John Chang demonstrated was supposed to be for research and to let people know the potential of human beings, not to tease and fill people with delusions and fantasy. He has never gain monetary benefits from this exposure, nor did he want all this publication. Most of what is said in forums are by people who do not belong to Mo Pai. That is why we, Mopai students, asked for our system/school to be left alone. Discussions should be civil and polite. Nothing can be gained by insults and mockery. If you really have problems with our school or system, please do not hide behind the computer.

Good post.

I don't think most here are bad mouthing John Chang nor your system. I know I have refrained from ever even mentioning the system because I respect the fact that the system's practitioners have numerous times asked to be left alone. And I would hope/wish that everyone who posts here would respect that. I think what you are seeing in this thread is practitioners who do actually know something about qi manipulation responding to the folks who post who have no real knowledge of qi projection as well as responses from those who, like me, disagree that setting something on fire serves to positively promote qigong/neigong knowledge due to the perceptions and misunderstandings of lots of western peoples.

Personally I thoroughly respect any authentic neigong system as well as the practitioners - that is, the people who actually practice - as I know the amount of time&effort it can take.

[Wu Ming Jen]

I will bad mouth and point out any harmful practice. cheng sen feng level 72 on the web site of mo pei I am from wudang and this is a lie and has no affiliation whatsoever with Wudang. A blatant lie to create a fake linage.

 

Ask any doctor east or west about seman retention, wrong and harmful. Thinking true vitality as a physical substance produced like seman is laughable. There are too many errors to mention. Anyone using acupressure should be able to manipulate the human or animal body it is not magic or a high level skill. If one has benefited by a practice that is awesome but do not be easily fooled by beginner methods to achieve something worth value.

[Thunder_Gooch]

it dang sure doesn't promote medical qigong.

Medical qigong just like medical reiki is just placebo.

 

If you want something real, sour grapes won't cut it.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Thunder_Gooch

[Ya Mu]

Medical qigong just like medical reiki is just placebo.

 

If you want something real, sour grapes won't cut it.

Sour grapes? What are you talking about?

And when did you study medical qigong? Isn't it the truth that you haven't and don't actually know anything whatsoever about it? Per your own words you don't even practice anything at all.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Per your own words you don't even practice anything at all.

If you say so.

[Ya Mu]

To those who, like TG/mpg, are ignorant of medical qigong, it is a system of therapeutics that comes from the hospitals of China, with decades of history of use. Yes, hospitals where nothing but qi projection is utilized. And it doesn't have anything to do with placebo, but actual techniques that get actual results.

[Ya Mu]

If you say so.

Actually YOU said it more than once.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Actually YOU said it more than once.

If you say so.

 

but actual techniques that get actual results.

Copper bracelets, magnetic bracelets, sugar pills, homeopathy, gets actual results too.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Thunder_Gooch

[Ya Mu]

I will bad mouth and point out any harmful practice. cheng sen feng level 72 on the web site of mo pei I am from wudang and this is a lie and has no affiliation whatsoever with Wudang. A blatant lie to create a fake linage.

 

Ask any doctor east or west about seman retention, wrong and harmful. Thinking true vitality as a physical substance produced like seman is laughable. There are too many errors to mention. Anyone using acupressure should be able to manipulate the human or animal body it is not magic or a high level skill. If one has benefited by a practice that is awesome but do not be easily fooled by beginner methods to achieve something worth value.

The problem is there are people who post - a lot - who don't even practice anything, who have never studied any complete system, who promote basic misinformation due to their ignorance of what is actually out there.

Thank you for posting this.

[Ya Mu]

If you say so.

 

 

Copper bracelets, magnetic bracelets, sugar pills, homeopathy, gets actual results too.

And now you have studied homeopathy, magnetics, and the properties of copper as well!

 

Sugar pills or any other placebo, can possibly achieve effects - but only truly effective therapeutics keep achieving those effects. Anyone who actually studied this would know that if someone were given sugar pills for pain, and it initially works, it won't keep on working - the effect degrades. And anyone who actually studied medical qigong would know that the effect works repeatedly.

[Thunder_Gooch]

The problem is there are people who post - a lot - who don't even practice anything, who have never studied any complete system, who promote basic misinformation due to their ignorance of what is actually out there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sugar pills or any other placebo, can possibly achieve effects - but only truly effective therapeutics keep achieving those effects. Anyone who actually studied this would know that if someone were given sugar pills for pain, and it initially works, it won't keep on working - the effect degrades. And anyone who actually studied medical qigong would know that the effect works repeatedly.

 

 

If you say so.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Thunder_Gooch

[Ya Mu]

...

if you say so.

Sure. There is a difference in actually knowing what one is speaking of and making proclamations based on personal ignorance of those particular subjects. You could try studying and practicing to help you know about these things.

[Thunder_Gooch]

There is a difference in actually knowing what one is speaking of and making proclamations based on personal ignorance of those particular subjects. You could try studying and practicing to help you know about these things.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Thunder_Gooch

[Ya Mu]

Oh, I wasn't the one who made ignorant statements about medical qigong, homeopathy, and placebo.

 

But lets get back to the subject of the thread, instead of your usual insulting manner of continuously spamming. Post something worthwhile and not the same bandwidth eating nonsense as you always post, destroying thread after thread after thread. There are many people on here who are actual practitioners who would like to intelligently discuss some of these subjects.

For instance, answer the OP's question.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I wasn't the one who made ignorant statements

If you say so.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Thunder_Gooch

[No Cause]

Ya Mu, there is no point arguing with more_pie_guy, don't you know he is the internet authority on neigong? He has read magus of java and he can quote from it better than anyone existing . He knows all the theory of neigong even more than any actual mopai students or john chang himeslef becasue he has read magus of java many times. Don't you know that that book contains all the truth of neigong practice and contains no errors even though the author did not speak chinese nor indonesian? A book relying on a translation by a bare beginner in neigong is the most authentic source of information, everyone knows that.

Edited March 2, 2014 by No Cause

[Thunder_Gooch]

Ya Mu, there is no point arguing with more_pie_guy, don't you know he is the internet authority on neigong? He has read magus of java and he can quote from it better than anyone existing. He knows all the theory of neigong even more than any actual mopai students or john chang himeslef becasue he has read magus of java many times. Don't you know that that book contains all the truth of neigong practice and contains no errors even though the author did not speak chinese nor indonesian? A book relying on a translation by a bare beginner in neigong is the most authentic source of information, everyone knows that. :lol

 

Both Jim and Kosta know exactly what they were taught. You can plug your ears, cover your eyes and scream "neener neener neener I'm not listening." until you are blue in the face if you like though.

 

[No Cause]

 

Both Jim and Kosta know exactly what they were taught. You can plug your ears, cover your eyes and scream "neener neener neener I'm not listening." until you are blue in the face if you like though.

 

If Jim and Kosta are such great experts on neigong, why can't they shoot lightning out of their asses like you can. Clearly you are more advanced than them. You know more about neigong than any mopai students existing or even John chang since none of them can shoot lightning out of their asses better than you do.

Edited March 2, 2014 by No Cause

[Thunder_Gooch]

If Jim and Kosta are such great experts on neigong, why can't they shoot lightning out of their asses like you can. Clearly you are more advanced than them. You know more about neigong than any mopai students existing or even John chang since none of them can shoot lightning out of their asses better than you do.

You can attack me all you like, but I deeply care about what Chang actually taught his students.

 

If you don't more power to you.

 

If you are just here to troll, there actually is a thread for that where you can troll to your heart's content.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/33037-community-challenge/page-19

Edited March 2, 2014 by Thunder_Gooch

[Nungali]

Ohhh ... if only we had these

 

 

 

 

 

Not that I mind the content , as pointed out previously it is more the style of certain peoples 'debate' ( Illogical, non-sequential, not answering the question, accusing others of a jejune response while doing that themselves ... and in the final counting ... 0 . )

[tongkosong]

I will bad mouth and point out any harmful practice. cheng sen feng level 72 on the web site of mo pei I am from wudang and this is a lie and has no affiliation whatsoever with Wudang. A blatant lie to create a fake linage.Ask any doctor east or west about seman retention, wrong and harmful. Thinking true vitality as a physical substance produced like seman is laughable. There are too many errors to mention. Anyone using acupressure should be able to manipulate the human or animal body it is not magic or a high level skill. If one has benefited by a practice that is awesome but do not be easily fooled by beginner methods to achieve something worth value.

 

Yes, you are free to your opinion, but, if your opinion is about an actual system/school/teaching and your intent is to judge/bad mouth/criticize it, you better have good and authentic knowledge of it. Your argument, with the intent to discredit and criticize our school/system/teaching is very flawed and ignorant. It goes to show the kind of person you are.

 

There is no Mopai website that is created to be the official Mopai website, permitted by the master of the lineage. There was a website pretending to be the "official" Mopai website, but, the school has dispute it and it was then shut down. If there are more websites popping out pretending to be the official site, please be very careful and do not trust its information.

 

The 72 levels of Mopai are actually not as people understand it to be. This is actually a misunderstanding people have of Mopai and its teachings.

 

Mopai is not from Wudang nor is it associated with Wudang. John Chang mentioned Zhang San Feng not as its ancestor. If it was perceived so, it was a misunderstanding.

 

As to the Mopai technique, it does not and never promote semen retention. It was referring to the practitioner having to take a break from the meditation after having sex. You do not have any knowledge of Mopai's teachings and techniques, so I suggest be humble and do not try to act all knowing.

 

So once again, please refrain from passing judgement on a system or school that you have NO idea of. Instead of doing that, be humble and mind your own practice. If you have any questions on Mopai or its system, you can ask us. If it is allowed, we will try to clear up any misinformation. I suggest courtesy towards other schools and systems. A true honorable person does not get his reputation by spouting out nonsense on a practice/system that he/she is ignorant of. Thank you for understanding.

[No Cause]

Yes, you are free to your opinion, but, if your opinion is about an actual system/school/teaching and your intent is to judge/bad mouth/criticize it, you better have good and authentic knowledge of it. Your argument, with the intent to discredit and criticize our school/system/teaching is very flawed and ignorant. It goes to show the kind of person you are. There is no Mopai website that is created to be the official Mopai website, permitted by the master of the lineage. There was a website pretending to be the "official" Mopai website, but, the school has dispute it and it was then shut down. If there are more websites popping out pretending to be the official site, please be very careful and do not trust its information. The 72 levels of Mopai are actually not as people understand it to be. This is actually a misunderstanding people have of Mopai and its teachings. Mopai is not from Wudang nor is it associated with Wudang. John Chang mentioned Zhang San Feng not as its ancestor. If it was perceived so, it was a misunderstanding. As to the Mopai technique, it does not and never promote semen retention. It was referring to the practitioner having to take a break from the meditation after having sex. You do not have any knowledge of Mopai's teachings and techniques, so I suggest be humble and do not try to act all knowing. So once again, please refrain from passing judgement on a system or school that you have NO idea of. Instead of doing that, be humble and mind your own practice. If you have any questions on Mopai or its system, you can ask us. If it is allowed, we will try to clear up any misinformation. I suggest courtesy towards other schools and systems. A true honorable person does not get his reputation by spouting out nonsense on a practice/system that he/she is ignorant of. Thank you for understanding.

Sorry tongkosong, you are not mopai expert even though you are an actual student of John Chang. Everyone knows more_pie_guy is the authority on everything mopai since he can quote magus of java better than everyone, and we all know that book is the utimate truth on neigong. So unless you battle and beat more_pie_guy on quoting magus of java, you have no power here.

[thelerner]

When we mention Power its not too long til a repetitive insult circle forms. It gets nasty, then sent into The Pit. Why don't we drop the drama and old feuds and get back to the OP.

 

 

Legitimate Qi Powers.. I wonder if the shamanistic traditions gives us the best indication of what they are? What are the common threads that run through shamanism? In many ways shamanism is at the root of Daoism.

[thamosh]

Battle of the egos!!!

 

Ya know going thru stuff like can at times be difficult and lonely.

 

I remember talking to sifu about my sunlight experiences. He told me to put my hands over my eyes and 3rd eye. An I did and the charging sensation i got from the sun stopped.

 

Sifu told me that the sunlight enters thru the third eye to the pineal gland and stimulates and charges the endocrine system.

 

later I was training and I decided to explore one of the moving meditations in the system. I noticed that it created a powerful energy field around the body.

 

I told sifu about it.

 

He said different moving meds do different things and to keep going

 

Now I can create that energy field upon thought.

 

Going thru things like this just makes it hard to relate to others who dont exp the same.

 

I can stand out side right before the sun sets and feel nothing and then all of a sudden when the sun starts to set everything in my head goes brrrm and my body starts to vibrate.

 

Train attain and keep moving.

 

This is spiritual progress. A lot of people forget that.