Is buddhism dangerous?

[GrandTrinity]

It seems the "highest" or vajra vehicle is simply composed of the Tao at heart.

 

Is there some dangerous black magic in buddha-land?

 

I find it hard, if not impossible to cultivate buddhahood realistically...

The quantum buddha concept...it is all great but the Tao seems a lot more whole in some respects?

[Pero]

[thelerner]

Pero's reply is more elegant then anything I could think of.

 

Michael

[林愛偉]

It seems the "highest" or vajra vehicle is simply composed of the Tao at heart.

 

Is there some dangerous black magic in buddha-land?

 

I find it hard, if not impossible to cultivate buddhahood realistically...

The quantum buddha concept...it is all great but the Tao seems a lot more whole in some respects?

 

When I read this I did this also

 

Then I remembered my Shifu's, Master Xuan Hua, commentary on The Sixth Patriarch's Dharma Jewel Platform Sutra. Here is an excerpt from the commentary in reference to Daoism:

 

Commentary;

 

"The 10th Patriarch, Arya Parshva, lived in his mother's womb for more than 60yrs. He was born with white hair and a white beard , just like Laozi in China.

Laozi lived in his mother's womb for 81yrs and was born with white hair and a long beard. They named him "Lao Zi" which means "Old Child", but he was actually a reincarnation of Mahakashyapa. He was born in China because Shakyamuni Buddha had noticed the Chinese had good karmic roots. Most of them did not believe in the Buddha, however, so Mahakashyapa was sent to China to found the religion of Daoism, which is the same as the Brahman religion of India and which cultivates purity of Conduct.

Arya Parshva, the 10th Patriarch, was born with a liking for cultivation. When he met the 9th Patriarch, Buddhamitra, he left home and the Dharma door of the Buddha's mind seal was transmitted to him."

 

Interesting that I should quote this passage, because this sutra has been glowing for the last 20 minutes before signing on to Taobums.

 

Buddhism is not complicated at all, and can be easily cultivated. There is nothing wrong with the cultivation. It is the mind cultivating which has the obstructions.

 

Especially this; If the teacher of the Buddha Dharma is confused about the Buddha Dharma him/herself, then they are not teaching the proper Dharma and thus lead their disciples into further confusion. Any confusion of the Buddha Dharma is a result of improper teachings from the teacher itself. Thus, it only points that the mind cultivating has the obstructions.

If the cultivator cannot understand, they must find a good wise knowing adviser who can lead them on the proper path of cultivating.

 

Water is water, and can refresh the body when dehydrated, but if the glass/cup is brought to the mouth too swiftly, the water spills everywhere and cannot refresh the dried body.

Is it that the water is not capable, or is it that the drinker is not properly drinking?

 

Peace,

Aiwei

 

...an interesting thread this will be

Edited July 21, 2007 by 林愛偉

[林愛偉]

Another interesting thing I may add is that upon opening the Sutra I quoted from in my above response,

I opened exactly to the page which states the commentary on Lao Zi.

 

Peace and Happiness,

Aiwei

[gendao]

Interesting synchronicity,

Laozi lived in his mother's womb for 81yrs and was born with white hair and a long beard. They named him "Lao Zi" which means "Old Child", but he was actually a reincarnation of Mahakashyapa. He was born in China because Shakyamuni Buddha had noticed the Chinese had good karmic roots. Most of them did not believe in the Buddha, however, so Mahakashyapa was sent to China to found the religion of Daoism, which is the same as the Brahman religion of India and which cultivates purity of Conduct.

However, Lao Zi did not found Taoism.

[zenbrook]

Interesting synchronicity,However, Lao Zi did not found Taoism.

Oh dear..... sorry to be so pedantic, but surely the link you provided suggests that Lao Zi did indeed found Taoism - at least in its religious aspect as per the quote given from the Platform Sutra:

Many people interested in the Tao are still under the impression that Lao Tzu founded Taoism about 2,500 years ago. There is some truth to this, as long we are only talking about philosophical Taoism (Dao Jia) or religious Taoism (Dao Jiao).

I know, I'm a sad git. Perils of a life spent in academia

 

Peace,

ZenB

[eatyourgreens]

well of course to buddhists lao tzu is gonna be buddha's disciple!

...just like how to hindus buddha is but an avatar of vishnu.

i imagine many taoists would offer a different story about the origins of lao tzu, and perhaps even about those of taoism in general.

so who makes this stuff up?

surely it is but a mirror of our own dreaming.

yet why follow some else's fairy tale?

[Wayfarer64]

Maybe Mao was right that religion is the opiate of the people!!! or... perhaps we just need to take a step back and relate our deepest inner beings to a realm of existeance that does not differentiate from a place of ego, but from that of cosmic oneness... Then all thoughts are dangerous and all thoughts are laughable and all thoughts are sweet as a baby's breath...Intent and direction - moment by moment - dictate harm and blessings...

any given thing or idea has no intrinsic value or danger without the moment that it exists in as the true context of its character for each moment it exists....

or maybe not...

[beancurdturtle]

Then all thoughts are dangerous and all thoughts are laughable and all thoughts are sweet as a baby's breath...Intent and direction - moment by moment - dictate harm and blessings...

That was my reaction on reading the first post - that and a big belly laugh.

[fatherpaul]

It seems the "highest" or vajra vehicle is simply composed of the Tao at heart.

 

Is there some dangerous black magic in buddha-land?

 

I find it hard, if not impossible to cultivate buddhahood realistically...

The quantum buddha concept...it is all great but the Tao seems a lot more whole in some respects?

 

 

people are dangerous

[fatherpaul]

well of course to buddhists lao tzu is gonna be buddha's disciple!

...just like how to hindus buddha is but an avatar of vishnu.

i imagine many taoists would offer a different story about the origins of lao tzu, and perhaps even about those of taoism in general.

so who makes this stuff up?

surely it is but a mirror of our own dreaming.

yet why follow some else's fairy tale?

 

this giant bucket of legos is infinte

build what you will

[林愛偉]

The reason why Buddhists see Lao Zi as a disciple of Buddha is because there is a full on connection with every one and everything. Remember, Buddhism is just a catch phrase to the awakened, enlightened mind. In all full enlightenment, there is no mark, no label of what is to be considered Buddhism or not.

When brought with the teachings of Lao Zi, we see their moral and virtuous cultivation is a mirror image of that of Buddhism. Also, many great sages in this world are none other than great realized beings who have taken bodies that only we can perceive of as human. So, you have the body of the mother of Jesus who looked to us like an ordinary woman, but was none other than Guan Yin in certain form to teach certain people a manner of cultivation that fit for them.

This example is just pointing to the fact that those relaized, enlightened beings can take any shape and any mannerism they choose that they see fit to teach living beings to be good, do good, and attain enlightenment...eventually.

When a Buddhist goes to visit a Mosque, they do not look and laugh at Allah, they respect Allah because A God will be a Buddha someday, and a buddha can be a God for all we know.

This whole point here gives one the mental direction to realize that all of the teachings in this world are all interconnected, and function according to the capacity of the minds of living beings. There are teachings of Buddhism that people just can't understand, and can't even get to, so their level of understanding cannot go higher...until it does.

And we only call it Buddhism because the function of the teachings lead one to eventually, either suddenly or gradually, attain pure complete wisdsom, pure complete patience, and pure complete compassion. These 3 are only 1, and the one has no marks, no labels of itself. The teachings lead one ot attain unadulterated wisdom. Thats why it is called Buddhism. There should be no misunderstanding of this.

 

 

Lastly but not leasst, the phrase Daoism really started with LaoZi. Before him, people never used the word Dao, but used Fangshi...lifestyle, or manner of living. They worked with spirits, gods, ghosts and illuminated beings. Worked methods to cultivate according to what they couldknow, but not everyone was doing it. They had their own lifestyle.

 

Peace,

Aiwei

 

 

Like I said, an interesting thread indeed.

Edited July 22, 2007 by 林愛偉

[fatherpaul]

The reason why Buddhists see Lao Zi as a disciple of Buddha is because there is a full on connection with every one and everything. Remember, Buddhism is just a catch phrase to the awakened, enlightened mind. In all full enlightenment, there is no mark, no label of what is to be considered Buddhism or not.

When brought with the teachings of Lao Zi, we see their moral and virtuous cultivation is a mirror image of that of Buddhism. Also, many great sages in this world are none other than great realized beings who have taken bodies that only we can perceive of as human. So, you have the body of the mother of Jesus who looked to us like an ordinary woman, but was none other than Guan Yin in certain form to teach certain people a manner of cultivation that fit for them.

This example is just pointing to the fact that those relaized, enlightened beings can take any shape and any mannerism they choose that they see fit to teach living beings to be good, do good, and attain enlightenment...eventually.

When a Buddhist goes to visit a Mosque, they do not look and laugh at Allah, they respect Allah because A God will be a Buddha someday, and a buddha can be a God for all we know.

This whole point here gives one the mental direction to realize that all of the teachings in this world are all interconnected, and function according to the capacity of the minds of living beings. There are teachings of Buddhism that people just can't understand, and can't even get to, so their level of understanding cannot go higher...until it does.

And we only call it Buddhism because the function of the teachings lead one to eventually, either suddenly or gradually, attain pure complete wisdsom, pure complete patience, and pure complete compassion. These 3 are only 1, and the one has no marks, no labels of itself. The teachings lead one ot attain unadulterated wisdom. Thats why it is called Buddhism. There should be no misunderstanding of this.

Lastly but not leasst, the phrase Daoism really started with LaoZi. Before him, people never used the word Dao, but used Fangshi...lifestyle, or manner of living. They worked with spirits, gods, ghosts and illuminated beings. Worked methods to cultivate according to what they couldknow, but not everyone was doing it. They had their own lifestyle.

 

Peace,

Aiwei

Like I said, an interesting thread indeed.

 

who hears this?

 

i must go, the tea kettle is whistling

 

who hears that?

 

peace,

paul

[Pero]

When a Buddhist goes to visit a Mosque, they do not look and laugh at Allah, they respect Allah because A God will be a Buddha someday, and a buddha can be a God for all we know.

 

Respect, but not more than to other sentient beings. Humans will be Buddhas too and so on.

 

 

i must go, the tea kettle is whistling

 

who hears that?

 

You do.

[eatyourgreens]

The reason why Buddhists see Lao Zi as a disciple of Buddha is because there is a full on connection with every one and everything. Remember, Buddhism is just a catch phrase to the awakened, enlightened mind. In all full enlightenment, there is no mark, no label of what is to be considered Buddhism or not.

When brought with the teachings of Lao Zi, we see their moral and virtuous cultivation is a mirror image of that of Buddhism. Also, many great sages in this world are none other than great realized beings who have taken bodies that only we can perceive of as human. So, you have the body of the mother of Jesus who looked to us like an ordinary woman, but was none other than Guan Yin in certain form to teach certain people a manner of cultivation that fit for them.

This example is just pointing to the fact that those relaized, enlightened beings can take any shape and any mannerism they choose that they see fit to teach living beings to be good, do good, and attain enlightenment...eventually.

When a Buddhist goes to visit a Mosque, they do not look and laugh at Allah, they respect Allah because A God will be a Buddha someday, and a buddha can be a God for all we know.

This whole point here gives one the mental direction to realize that all of the teachings in this world are all interconnected, and function according to the capacity of the minds of living beings. There are teachings of Buddhism that people just can't understand, and can't even get to, so their level of understanding cannot go higher...until it does.

And we only call it Buddhism because the function of the teachings lead one to eventually, either suddenly or gradually, attain pure complete wisdsom, pure complete patience, and pure complete compassion. These 3 are only 1, and the one has no marks, no labels of itself. The teachings lead one ot attain unadulterated wisdom. Thats why it is called Buddhism. There should be no misunderstanding of this.

Lastly but not leasst, the phrase Daoism really started with LaoZi. Before him, people never used the word Dao, but used Fangshi...lifestyle, or manner of living. They worked with spirits, gods, ghosts and illuminated beings. Worked methods to cultivate according to what they couldknow, but not everyone was doing it. They had their own lifestyle.

 

Peace,

Aiwei

Like I said, an interesting thread indeed.

 

 

Edited July 22, 2007 by eatyourgreens

[Pero]

who hears this?

 

Nobody.

[林愛偉]

The manner of my posting is not to defend anything beliefs, or manners seen, in the cultivation ways of Buddhism. Just to point out that Those labelled Buddhas and Bodhisattvas did not just appear when the Shakyamuni Buddha was in the world. It didn't start with him, and the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas did not all attain their enlightenment when Shakyamuni Buddha was in the world over 2,500 yrs ago.

It was only during that time that these teachings were able to be realized in this world. That's all. THe sages we look to today may well be great enlightened beings. We can only see them as a human sage because of our own mental capacity to recognize them. If wee cultivated to higher levels, we could see them and recognize them for their other bodies that they manifest in.

It is just that when Shakyamuni Buddha was in the world, he told of the stories of the great sages, Buddhas and Bodhisattvas of the past, and what they had accomplished. It was from him that the stories were past down.

 

In seeing all living beings, in Buddhist cultivation and Daoist cultivation, there is to be a mutual, familial respect towards them. People do not know who has been their mother or father, son or daughter in the past. Sometimes people marry a cow they have killed in a past life, and live in a relationship where the husband or wife seem to only want to lay around, eat all the time, slowly move, think slowly, use all the money for oneself...the list can go on.

 

THe point is, one really doesn't know where the connection lies until they do. And they can only do it through cultivation, meditation and keeping a strong foundation of guidelines so they do not retreat from dilligent practice.

 

Don't believe what I wrote about Lao Zi, cultivate for yourself and then ask him.

 

Peace and Happiness,

Aiwei

Edited July 22, 2007 by 林愛偉

[林愛偉]

Oh and one more thing.... The Qigong that was cultivated through the Immortals and Heavenly masters of Daoist sects all came from the Heavens, came through their cultivation.

 

If one of them was more tending to the evil ways of things, they learned techniques from the demon heavens, if more loving and compassionate, they learned from those in the Heavens of bright and illuminated beings.

 

And all those teachings are interrelated. But some do not lead you to the complete goal of enlightenment unless those who have been completely enlightened teach you.

 

Peace,

Aiwei

[zenbrook]

people are dangerous

People are pussycats.

 

It's the Buddha who's dangerous.

 

Peace,

ZenB

[fatherpaul]

People are pussycats.

 

It's the Buddha who's dangerous.

 

Peace,

ZenB

 

 

when the hot sun burns away the dense fog,

to the fog, the sun is dangerous

 

 

 

peace,

paul

[林愛偉]

when the hot sun burns away the dense fog,

to the fog, the sun is dangerous

peace,

paul

 

Wonderful!

 

This is a lesson all in and of itself.

It can be cultivated, contemplated and will bring one to proper understanding

of the defiled mind and the Buddha mind.

 

Amituofo

 

 

Aiwei

Edited July 22, 2007 by 林愛偉

[Wayfarer64]

pussycats are dangerous too!

 

Though usually I try to be forebaring and let things pass that are only related to money and matterialism...Since some lawyers stole my inheritance, I am feeling dangerous these days and need to calm myself into a state of acceptance of this just being my karma...

 

Jing retention and meditation ain't cutting it when there are a few lawyers who I think are evil incarnate...So at this point in time... My energy is dangerous and no amount of calming influence is making me deal with my anger other than keeping me from actually doing harm to these miscriants...

 

I shall stay as calm as I am able until this awful feeling passes as all feeling pass...

[mbanu]

Yes. Quite so.

 

But then, so is Taoism.

 

Anything that can cause powerful benefit can, under incorrect circumstances, also cause powerful harm.

 

I know that Taoism at least comes with a child-proof safety cap in the form of the fact that even correctly translated Lao-tzu and Chuang-tzu are often 2 parts cryptic gibberish to 1 part gibbery crypticisms, with a funny story or three thrown in. Or at least, they are until you provide the right context. The teachings are formed like a prism; shine the light in one way, out comes one angle; shine the light in a different way, out comes a different one. The most dangerous angles can't normally be unlocked without the right context; and usually if you have the right context, you are desperately in need of them.

 

I would think that Buddhism must surely have something similar; After all, they are two separate solutions for the exact same problem.

Edited July 24, 2007 by mbanu

[林愛偉]

Yes. Quite so.

 

But then, so is Taoism.

 

Anything that can cause powerful benefit can, under incorrect circumstances, also cause powerful harm.

 

I know that Taoism at least comes with a child-proof safety cap in the form of the fact that even correctly translated Lao-tzu and Chuang-tzu are often 2 parts cryptic gibberish to 1 part gibbery crypticisms, with a funny story or three thrown in. Or at least, they are until you provide the right context. The teachings are formed like a prism; shine the light in one way, out comes one angle; shine the light in a different way, out comes a different one. The most dangerous angles can't normally be unlocked without the right context; and usually if you have the right context, you are desperately in need of them.

 

I would think that Buddhism must surely have something similar; After all, they are two separate solutions for the exact same problem.

 

 

In Buddhism and Daoist cultivation, there are teachings that are accessible to anyone who would like them. Those teachings are fundamental prcatices. But not all of the teachings are for everyone. The reason being one's personal character and most importantly one's manner and level of cultivation.

 

Peace and Happiness,

Aiwei