400 Words on the Gold Elixir

[Clarity]

Au contraire, c'est moi qui vous remercie!

 

Dark dreams cannot conceive it's certain lightness.

[exorcist_1699]

I think Deci Belle is talking about something many Chinese Taoists hesitant ( more candidly speaking , timid ) to express it so explicitly...; her/his explanation may not be 100% correct, but it really involves something crucial especially when we enter the higher level of our practice.

 

What is lack of here is the concept of post-heavenly and pre-heavenly when we explain things in terms of 5 elements, for example , at post-heavenly qi level water doesn't give rise to metal , it gives rise to wood ; it is a jump from post-heavenly level to pre-heavenly level , through counteracting the fire , that water becomes pre-heavenly metal ( primordial qi / Meta-mind ).

 

Consider how difficult all other religions in fighting against our senses/ desires / fluctuating daily consciousness, Taoist treatment , the formula of " water counteracts fire" , of the issue is really a great invention for human beings...

Edited March 14, 2014 by exorcist_1699

[Walker]

I think Deci Belle is talking about something many Chinese Taoists hesitant to express it so explicitly...; her/his explanation may not be 100% correct, but it really involves something crucial especially when we enter the higher level of our practice.

 

Word is bond.

[deci belle]

Hey exorcist!! Thank you for the post!!❤

 

I speak in terms of what is basically consistent with essence both before and after the dichotomy of the absolute. I do this as I have the perspective of reality. Since I am most familiar with the Complete Reality teachings, I use its terminology to express this function for those in the gradual path both before and after sudden realization.

 

Since the classic terminology is vast in its application to inner and outer evolutions, it could hardly be a matter of 100% correct. One must be able to gauge the terminology's application to one's own situation from moment to moment. There is nothing to grasp both in the reality and its symbolic representations as presented in this and all authentic traditions.

 

Not to mention the fact that this is a most difficult subject to brooch.

 

Certainly, this type of elucidation of enlightening function has always been secreted one-on-one in the course of a formal teacher-student relationship, but since I had no teacher and never had the opportunity to ask or tell anyone for more than a couple decades, I felt the need to begin expressing my experience directly in terms of pre- and post-heaven contexts as the basis is one throughout.

 

It is found in oneself. One must see essence on one's one, only then can a teacher aid one in applying the Science of Life, which is not even remotely a matter of energetics.

[deci belle]

Chang Po-tuan, in his opening statements to his Understanding Reality, also with commentary by Liu I-ming, says this (and it is written in capital letters in the book):

 

 

…IF YOU COME ALONG THE GREAT ELIXIR WITHOUT EVEN LOOKING FOR IT, HAVING COME UPON IT, YOU ARE A FOOL IF YOU DO NOT REFINE IT.

 

So we know it is not a matter correctness regarding a terminology of description (there is no explanation) as there is, in fact, no thing to speak of. More to the point, sudden realization of the Great Elixir is the entry-level experience. I spent years coming to terms with this before discovering the Chan teaching of Hongzhi— which stated in emphatic terms to just accept your function and enter the world forthrightly without reservations. Otherwise, it could only be a matter of a being a stupid cat trapped in the cave under the black mountain by clinging to the absolute~ no different that clinging to delusion. Sudden realization is only seeing your nature. It does not confer buddhahood, as it is not even the stage of incubation as discussed in the alchemic classics in terms of gradual practice in the aftermath of the sudden, which is the solidification and maturation of the foregoing achievement.

 

 

 

 

ed note: italicize the name of the book title

Edited March 15, 2014 by deci belle

[deci belle]

Nibbling the trail of crumbs to leave no traces is a further polishing of the foregoing achievement; exorcist (the tao-bum), was properly referring to the ordinary cyclical order of the inter-relative as well as the specialized reversal of the classic five elements teaching constituting the course of karmic or enlightening process occurring within the individual.

 

This is a very effective device requiring a thorough analysis and understanding of Complete Reality theory (I mean that in the highest regard) based on the most ancient of proto-Chinese systems of psychological organization.

 

In the context of alchemy, water producing metal alludes to the appearance of real knowledge itself from within nondifferentiation— unified nondiscriminatory awareness constituting water; not the five-elements cycles in terms of the pre- and post-heaven scenarios. This happens naturally, but ordinary people are unaware of its arising, so cannot avail themselves of its firm, unequivocal objective perspective. This is due to an habitual reliance on personalistic views and webs of speculative relationships that clog the aperture of primacy in terms of the incipience of the Mysterious Pass.

 

Finally, to rip the concept of "100% correctness" out by the roots is to (outside of exorcist's context, of course), one must come to terms with the the correct use of the Chinese term "cauldron". The effective use of ding, as a vessel of transformation, is in "uprightness". And here I quote my original response to exorcist's post above:

 

 

Since the classic terminology is vast in its application to inner and outer evolutions, it could hardly be a matter of 100% correct. One must be able to gauge the terminology's application to one's own situation from moment to moment. There is nothing to grasp both in the reality and its symbolic representations as presented in this and all authentic traditions.

 

Transformational correctness, or uprightness, has its own standard based on the time and situation. In fact, only by tipping the cauldron over on its side can one open out its contents to fully share with people in actual situations. Whereas by holding reality to the standard of ding's rote, literal sense, is to cling to the absolute (its absolute, as well), which kills its effective quality in terms of the power of transformative subtle operation of enlightening activity in the midst of ordinary affairs.

 

The Chan man, Yuan Wu said to Ta Hui, "Without a doubt, words and phrases are a great disease, but haven't you seen the saying

 

Hanging from a cliff, let go—

And agree to accept the experience.

After annihilation, come back to life—

I couldn't deceive you.

 

This is the effect of transformational ding, or uprightness— in this sense the cauldron's use is utterly dependent on the situation itself as its contents is the power of the medicines of fire and water constituting the elixir of immortality in each and every moment embodying the situation itself. The medicines, in this context, are the immaterial essence of awareness and the immaterial potential inherent in the situation. The cauldron is the capacity for transformation, and Creation, in terms of its karmic fecundity, is the furnace.

 

One must become totally vulnerable to effect this.

 

Eventually, upon Ta Hui's penetration of the real, Yuan Wu said, "My Chan here is like a great ocean: to get it right, you have to take a great ocean and pour it in. If you just take a bowl, and fill it with a little, and stop there, it's that your capacity is only like this— what would you have me do about it?"

 

This oceanic capacity is one's own selfless potential …on to the vaulted horizon.

[Ormus]

Dear Deci Belle,

 

your posts are excellent and I like it.

Looks that your work belong to Higher virtue of direct realisation focused on Xing.Maybe other who work gradual method as most Nei Dan do cant understand because all start working first on Ming.

My opinion is that Ming is also important as Xing if someone whant to become real Immortal.

 

I see that you mention belonging to Quanzhen and using Chan Buddhism along with it.Can you say to us to which school of Quanzhen you belong?

 

 

All the best,

 

Ormus

[Daeluin]

Hi Ormus, thanks for bumping this thread, I hadn't seen it.

 

However I don't think you'll get an answer to your question, as the OP is no longer active here. For more insight into db's approach to high virtuosity, see this, and maybe this.

 

If you're still interested in contacting the OP, perhaps you'll find them on their blog.

[thelerner]

Deci was always big on turning The Light onto itself.  I always had trouble discerning what she meant.  Trying to find another word for what Light meant.  I tried substituting awareness.

 

Finally with more help from Ajahn Brahms writings and the book 'Jhanas- Knowing and Seeing', my new understanding is that Light is light.  Its the phenomena of seeing a bright light in the inner eye that comes once concentration and awareness passes a  certain boundary.   Nothing intellectual, rather a common experiential sign post along the way.  Probably one often re-interpreted  through cultural bias's.

[Bearded Dragon]

Deci was always big on turning The Light onto itself.  I always had trouble discerning what she meant.  Trying to find another word for what Light meant.  I tried substituting awareness.

 

Finally with more help from Ajahn Brahms writings and the book 'Jhanas- Knowing and Seeing', my new understanding is that Light is light.  Its the phenomena of seeing a bright light in the inner eye that comes once concentration and awareness passes a  certain boundary.   Nothing intellectual, rather a common experiential sign post along the way.  Probably one often re-interpreted  through cultural bias's.

 

She has also mentioned that if you see actual light then that's not it.

 

You were right the first time. The metaphor is just that awareness is what makes things apparent, just as light makes dark things apparent. The part that does your head in is that it's like trying to swallow your own head. Swallowing your own head might actually be easier.

 

On what Ormus was saying, I would just add this. If you want you could say that vital energy is actually all of creation, since everything is energy and who is anyone to say it's not all vital? Then the two form a pair of created and non-created, which encompasses everything. In application there is only dealing with created energy, but it comes from a position of essence. This is balance if you like.

[idiot_stimpy]

Deci was always big on turning The Light onto itself.  I always had trouble discerning what she meant.  Trying to find another word for what Light meant.  I tried substituting awareness.

 

Finally with more help from Ajahn Brahms writings and the book 'Jhanas- Knowing and Seeing', my new understanding is that Light is light.  Its the phenomena of seeing a bright light in the inner eye that comes once concentration and awareness passes a  certain boundary.   Nothing intellectual, rather a common experiential sign post along the way.  Probably one often re-interpreted  through cultural bias's.

 

I've never liked the idea of light in terms of spirituality. I have found it very confusing, and have always wondered if others have an idea what light is or are they just repeating others.

 

To me light is emitted from the sun via rays.

[thelerner]

She has also mentioned that if you see actual light then that's not it.

 

You were right the first time. The metaphor is just that awareness is what makes things apparent, just as light makes dark things apparent. The part that does your head in is that it's like trying to swallow your own head. Swallowing your own head might actually be easier.

son of a bitch.. i don't even know what square i'm on.

[Bearded Dragon]

son of a bitch.. i don't even know what square i'm on.

 

haha, I know what you mean. Despite how ideas change it's intellectually obvious that the container of it all doesn't change. Knowing that doesn't seem to make a difference so we just keep changing ideas until something aligns, which I don't think will ever happen.

[Ormus]

I am not sure that it is all about Light and Xing.There must be Ming Gong and transofrmation of phisical body.How some is to become Di Xian with just working on Mind?

 

Ormus

[[email protected]]

I think that the reason why most of practitioners focus on xing but not ming is that xin and xing practice is easier to understand - just free your mind, minimize thoughts and harmonize heart. But ming practice is a secret one and unclear because deals with preheaven qi. But yes, this does not mean that it is not important.

Rgrds, Ilya

[Rocky Lionmouth]

At first i didnt see this was a bump, i thought "Deci is up in the house again!" I used to like reading her stuff even though i often felt like an illiterate among biochemists talking shop.

 

This thread makes a lot of sense somehow. I'm getting a feeling of the following:

"To enter you must first wipe your feet. You're standing on the mat already, btw."

Edited February 27, 2017 by Rocky Lionmouth

[dawei]

"Deci is up in the house again!" 

 

If anyone has contact with Deci,  Deci is welcomed back... as well as VMarco...   I'd like to see some past members come back...

[Rocky Lionmouth]

If anyone has contact with Deci,  Deci is welcomed back... as well as VMarco...   I'd like to see some past members come back...

+389 for that, power in numbers.

[lifeforce]

It's took me years to understand most of what Deci Belle was pointing to in her posts and topics. 

The language she used was not for the average layman/woman.

Her sometimes confrontational attitude was not welcomed by a lot of folks here.

I believe what she was trying to do was to crack our hardened ego shells and allow nuggets of wisdom to filter in.

In my case that is what has happened. She may have been one of the wisest people ever to have graced these forums.

Like a Ch'an patriarch from a bygone age. Actually LIVING the teachings. APPLYING them to whatever circumstance was arising.

THAT is the key. Nothing whatsoever to do with contrived energy, meditative and sexual practices.

In the words of Liu I Ming:

 

The Blind Leading the Blind

The Tao is no longer understood. There is an endless number of side doors and twisted byways, constituting a few basic groups. There are those who are fixated on voidness and those who are attached to forms, and those who do psychoso­matic exercises. There are seventy-two schools of material alchemy, and three thousand six hundred aberrant practices.

Since the blind lead the blind, they lose the right road; they block students and lead them into a pen.

[lifeforce]

From an unknown source :

 

"all my doubts disappeared, so that for the first time I realized that the Tao of spiritual alchemy is none other than the Tao of the I Ching, the Tao of sages is none other than the Tao of immortals, and that the I Ching is not a book of divination but rather is the study of investigation of principles, fulfillment of nature, and arrival at the meaning of life."

 

 

[rideforever]

02/09/2018

 

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by rideforever

[lifeforce]

5 hours ago, rideforever said:

Jesus, mankind is truly hopeless.   All these texts are just flowering dumb words with no hard guidance.   They criticise some practice and say ours is the real essence, and then it's poetry time.  
This is truly dumb.

 

Here are some concrete instructions :

 

HEART AWAKENING

 

- In the centre of your chest there is a point, this is the heart centre, it s on the centre line.  

- recalling something very terrible feel for that centre, try to be exact.

-  Activating the centre :
  breathe into the centre, so that it warms up, do not imagine just feel for where the centre of the feelings is, you can rub the area with your hand, breathe in and out of it (visualise that) or play soft music

- Awakening the centre

  now that you can feel it, what is it you actually experience there ?  Consider.   There is a blanket of feelings and in the middle of it this centre.  The feelings are very strong here.   But if you notice it is not just feelings you experience, but your heart identity.   Consider what that means.   It is not just a machine feeling, but it is your heart identity.

- Embodying the centre

  merge with your heart identity, repeatedly.   How to merge ?  Just try, imagine you are fusing with this identity in that spot, until your eyes awaken there.

 

3RD EYE AWAKENING

 

- First look out throw your eyes so that the energy is pouring out into the world out there ( a negative thing )

- Activating the centre

- Now turn the light around by narrowing the eyelids, and slightly tip the head back and feel the light flow back into the eyes, just try it, gently like the "light" is gently hoovered up (but gently flowing) back into the eyebrow centre ... like it says you use the top of the nose as a guiding line and the "light" flows back up

- Gently direct this energy into the eyebrow centre meaning from the front of the head to about 1" inside you want to light up this area with energy, gently guide the "light" energy until you feel a presence there

- Awakening the centre

  Now you have this area filled with energy, something is there.   But what is there.   Feel this area gently, what is it you feel.   You feel it like an energy , but you are also there.   Consider what this means.   Part of your identity is inside that energy.   Feel it carefully it is not like feeling your foot, it is you, your identity sitting there.

- Embodying the centre

  merge with that identiy.   How ?  Just try to imagine you are sitting in this space, and awaken inside there.  centre yourself there.

 

 

>>>  These are proper instructions.   Not poetic nonsense.

 

Oh the unknowable ten thousand silver dragon, and the 50 million Bodhisattvas, and the 300 kalpas, the 9 million gunas, 27,000 hungry lamas, and the venerable ancient grandmasters, and the unknowable ineffable heart of .... bla bla bla bla bla bla 
No-one can describe no-one can explain .... except the instructions are above ^^^.  
Quite simple really when someone explains clearly to you what to do.

Time for us all to demand more and get off our knees.

 

 

 

 

 

This is nothing but low level energy work. You could practice this for a thousand years and achieve nothing.

The 'poetic nonsense' that you mention is a great blessing of Chinese spirituality and has helped countless beings for many centuries to experience realisation. That you don't get the teachings is down to your current level of understanding. The 'hard guidance' is there if you have eyes to see.

Edited September 2, 2018 by lifeforce

[rideforever]

1 minute ago, lifeforce said:

This is nothing but low level energy work.

 

Do you read the guidance ?
Perhaps you are too busy wrapping yourself in silk robes and pretending to be a dragon.
Nobody cares if you die like that btw.
You have to care.

 

[lifeforce]

10 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

Do you read the guidance ?
Perhaps you are too busy wrapping yourself in silk robes and pretending to be a dragon.
Nobody cares if you die like that btw.
You have to care.

 

 

Yes I read it. You have no idea of the experiences that I've had in over 30 years of practice in countless disciplines.

The instructions that you wrote are what I would call 'low level', because, to me, that's exactly what they are.

Just because they are special to you doesn't mean that they are to others. 

Your tone is derogatory and egotistical. Traits that I've seen in myself in the past and wish to move on from.

 

[sagebrush]

no I disagree-

 

what we have here is an endless supply of contradictions

 

I can go back a quote a few lines of deci belle: something to the effect about entering the kingdom of heaven-

you must give up your life

all that is required is to forget the mind that thinks it exists...……...

 

then someone else chimes in regarding the fear of early onset dementia