In need of advices and suggestion about meditation side effects

[trollo]

Hello everybody. I m an occasional meditation practitioner who's struggling with meditation side effects since a few years, and i hope i can find somebody able to give me useful information in this forum.

I already tried to contact persons and associations through e-mail, i spoke
with an important Yoga master who lives here in Italy, and contacted a few
Yoga teachers and a chi gung teacher in my city , all without results. The
vast majority of them simply denied (like the Yoga guru and the TM teacher
who followed me) that such a practice as meditation could do any kind of
harm, a few admitted the fact but simply told me that i did the things in
the wrong way without explaining me how to fix things once they are messed
up, others like the teachers in my city simply told me "sign up to my
course" without giving me any response.
No way i could establish communication with Doctors. Just an internet
support group called "Kundalini support group" suggested to me that i could
effectively have had a case of Kundalini arousal and suggested to me to do
"microcosmic orbit" and Chi Kung.

I must explain myself.
In 2009 i began to practice TM from a book and a cd (the meditation consists
on repeating mentally ,staying in a comfortable seated position, a syllable;
in my case the syllable was "RAM"). I never had interest in spirituality but
i was in an awful psycological condition and suffered of fatigue since a few
years and i was disposed to try anything without letting my preconceptions
conditioning me. I had tried years of psychotherapies without success,
medications without any benefit; instead since 2006 even my physical health
had begun to decade with general malaise, weaker immune function, loss of
physical strenght and persistent tiredness despite i used to practice sport.
As in 2006 i was 29 it seemed absurd to me that this was simply the result
of aging.
So i tried meditation without expectation as i was very skeptical about such
things. But to my big surprise after 3 weeks i began to feel generally good,
mentally and physically, as i never felt since a long time. This seemed as a
miracle to me. Unluckily almost immediately i began also to developed sleep
problems. As weeks went by i felt better and better, and my personality
itself seemed almost changed, i was stronger and most confident, physically
and mentally. But sleeping was a problem for me.
I began to have strange experiences during my meditation sessions, mainly
while i was in the deepest states of contemplation. At first i used to
notice since the first weeks of my meditation practice that i used to react
to relaxation induced by meditation with sexual arousement. This seemed odd
to me and quite contradictory with my idea of meditation or yoga effects...
this was particularly strange considering that i suffered since long time of
lack of libido. One of the benefits of meditation on me seemed to be a
restoration of my libido, that was now very strong. But this wasn't the
oddest thing.
Sometimes during the moments of deeper meditation i felt as a hot sensation,
like energy, like a stream of adrenaline but very pleasant almost like an
orgasm that rose through my back, passed throught my neck and reached the
head. I didn't give any importance to that though..

I began to feel too much energised. During my Gym hours my stamina seemed
limitless. I began to enjoy to run fast and for long time. I was nervous,
always full of energy and desire of doing things but i could not simply stay
still for a moment and used to do everything in an accelerated way, like a
maniac. I began to have difficulties controlling my behaviours, during
conversation with people my enthusiasm was excessive and i simply couldn't
stop to speak. I also was easily irritable and unable to control my anger. I
was generally wildly emotive and could change during a conversation from
happiness to crying for a minimum reason.
I began to alternate period of meditation practice to period without
practice because i was still very skeptical and couldn't believe that such a
simple thing like meditation could create such effects. As i was under
antidepressant i initially thought that it was the effect of the medication.
But the effects disappeared when i stopped meditation every time, and
reappeared with it.
In summer 2010 i had another pair of odd experiences. I had stopped
meditation practice since a few monthes and i felt terrible. So i decided to
start again. After 5 days of meditation i began to feel so energised that i
didn't feel the need of eating more than 1 lunch for day, no need for sleep,
and i was in a persistent condition of violent sexual arousement. After 5
days i collapsed from lack of sleep. I know that this would seem the report
of a cocain abuser, but the foolish thing was that all that was simply from
moderate meditation practice (no more then 20-30 minutes twice a day).
Another day, a morning, after a few minutes of starting meditation i felt
the warm sensation rising in my back then i felt a strong pain in my bladder
and urinary tract and began to feel cold and nausea like if i had the flu. I
felt asleep for 1 hours and when i woke up i felt no more malaise. But after
2 weeks i developed a bladder infection that i had to cure with antibiotics.
The side effects worsened. I began to suffer of chest pain, and short
breath. I began usually to have involuntary muscular contractions (tics)
during the day, sometimes in the legs sometimes in my face. Nights were
nightmares, every minimal noise would make me literally jump in my bed. I
was hypersensitive and intollerant to lights, expecially car's lights, tv
and monitors. I sometimes had headaches during meditation. I began to have
frequent and long lasting flues.
I now known many of these was the effects of meditation, but i was afraid to
return to my previous suffering as a consequence of stopping meditation
practice. I contacted the assistance of the association who sold to me the
booklet. I ve been in contact with them for 2 monthes but they weren t able
to understand the nature of my problems and began to deny them.
I began to do researches on the Web, i contacted a few ex-TM-teachers who
told me stories of serious side effects from TM. Then, i casually read about
a thing called Kundalini syndrome. I noticed some of the symptoms were
similar to mine, exept that i never had any visual or auditory
hallucination. I tried to speak about that to my Chi Gung teacher (i
practice medical chi kung since 4 monthes) but she tend to dodge my
questions, i suspect she simply doesn't understand my questions, or have no
responses to give me.
I definitely stopped practising TM more than 2 years ago, but the disturbs
are not totally gone away. Instead during the last 4 years i developed
several health problems that i developed 'strangely' in the same time even
if they are medically unrelated to each other. A few of them seem to improve
with Chi Kung.
The problem is also that, in fact, as a life long depression and anxiety
sufferer (my school career has been ruined by this problems since i was 16
and so my youth) meditation has been the only thing that ever worked for me
and not being able to continue it it s quite tragic. So even if in fact
stopping meditation practice didn't eliminated totally the disturbs i
developed (but reduced them enormously) the other problem is that simply
avoiding meditation would mean for me losing the only thing that ever helped
me consistently. To this day i still hasn't been able to eliminate
completely insomnia and chest pain; plus i developed other health problems
that i cannot demonstrate are related to meditation practice but they could
be.
I wonder if meditation practice in my case could have mobilized energies in
my body in an improper way messing up things. All the persons in my city who
claim to be experts in some form of traditional eastern medicine like
chinese or indian medicine or teachers in yoga or qigong never even tried to
put the question in these terms, they never gave any importance to the
symptoms and never gave to me any explanation for what it happened to me,
exept for generic responses. i suspect they were simply too ignorant to
understand my issues and giving me a serious response. I also tried Reiki: i
did just one session, in the morning. During the day i felt very tired and
in the evening i started to feel awfully like never before untill night. So
i got scared and never continued. I have to point out that the reiki healer
didn't notice any problem inside me during his 'check up', so i supposed
that he simply didn't have any idea on what the hell he had done on me to
make me feel terribly like that.

It s now almost 2 years i totally stopped TM. Recently i hoped that after
such a long time of rest i could have maybe been able again to practice
meditation without disturbs, so i tried to start again but very slowly and
with caution. I began with only 5 minutes x day... just the first day about
half an hours after my 5 minutes of meditation i began to feel strange and
feeling a burning sensation in my urinary tract. With minutes passing by i
felt worse. It happened the same exact thing that happened to me in 2010 (i
wrote it at the beginning of this letter) and as in 2010 i felt a general
malaise with nausea and cold and felt the need of sleeping , i did it also
this time and after 1 hour of sleep the disturb disappeared. I think this is
the definitive proof that this meditation moves something inside me at a
physical level, and that something is still messed up since those years.

[Chang]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

 

I am sorry to hear that you have had such problems but am sure that you will soon have suggestions from fellow Tao Bums which will hopefully be of use to you.

 

You will now be able to post freely on the forum and all we ask is that you take the time to read the two posts pinned at the top of the Lobby and take a look at the forum terms and rules http://thetaobums.com/topic/19575-forum-terms-rules/ This covers all that you need be aware of as a forum member.

 

Good luck and best wishes,

 

Chang.

[king]

Hello Trollo and welcome to TTBs.

 

Here is my theory about your side effects:

During a good meditation you gather increased amounts of energy into your body, which is not necessarily a good thing. Especially if your body is not ready for it. Imagine using a lightning to power a lamp, the lamp simply can't handle that amouont of energy.

 

Do some asanas or a horse stance in the morning for 20minutes. Drink a lot of water. Try eating vegetarian food at least untill the side effects are gone. And do pranayama (once a day is enough, though three times is preferable) for opening the nadis (this is probably the most important part).

Start with an easier pranayama like laying on your back in savasana (the head should be on a higher ground, use a pillow or something else). And breathe in the ratio 1:2 with no pause between the breaths. For example breathe in for 7 seconds, breathe out for 14 seconds. Do around 20 breaths like that. You should not feel exhaustion during this, if you do you should lower the time for inhaling and exhaling. Go slowly. When you can inhale for 15 seconds and exhale for 30, it's time to go on to the second pranayama.

Second pranayama: This time your spine should be vertical to the ground. You can sit in any posture that you feel comfortable, you can even sit on a chair (without a back). The only requirement is that your spine is straight. Breathe out slowly and fully from the both nostrils. Inhale from the left nostril-> exhale from the right nostril-> inhale from the right nostril-> exhale from the left nostril. This is one cycle, you should do around 10 cycles 2 times a day. The breathing should be slow with no noise. The
inhale : exhale ratio is again 1:2. Use the your right hand's thumb to block your right nostril when breathing from the left and your pinky and ring fingers to block the left nostril when breathing through the right like in this link "goo.gl/kPQbVF". This is called Nadi Shodhana. When you can inhale for 15 and exhale for 30 you can move on the the next pranayama.

The third pranayama is called Anuloma Viloma and is basically Nadi Shodhana with a breath retention after inhalation. The ration of inhalation : retention : exhalation should be 1:4:2, but you can start with a ratio of 1:1:2 and slowly increase the ration of the retention. This pranayama should be dealt with care. If you try to do it forcefully you can harm your nervous system, brain and basically all of your body. This is why it's important to do it after you can do the previous two. If you feel exhaustion while doing it, decrease the time for inhaling, exhaling and retention. During the retention your heart rate should be slow (it can increase for the first few seconds, but after that it should calm down), it shouldn't increase and stay high during the whole breath retention! If you listen to your body it won't harm you, so listen to it. During the retention you should do mula bandha. This will open the nadis in your body normally for 3 months if done 3 times a day.

 

P.S. In every pranayama exercise your mind should be concentrated on the breath/air.

P.S.S. During the breath retention you should have your nostils closed by your thumb and ring+pinky fingers.

P.S.S.S. You can use a loud watch and listen to the seconds, it's better to have your eyes closed especially when you do pranayama with breath retention.

P.S.S.S.S Oh, and instead of counting the seconds, you can count your heart beats, but this is not easy for everyone as it requiers a higher sensitivity. At most it will take you a few day to learn... Man there are so many P.S.s

P.S.S.S.S... You should do pranayama at least 3 hours after eating, 30 minutes after drinking water and 30 minutes before eating.

 

I must warn you that most of this knowledge that I am giving you is not something I've recieved from experience, it's learned from books.

I hope you get well

Edited March 4, 2014 by king

[idiot_stimpy]

I wonder if meditation practice in my case could have mobilized energies in

my body in an improper way messing up things.

 

Have you ever explored the possibility that the mobilized energy is causing the body to clear things up? Kind of working through your karma at a rapid rate?

 

 

It sounds like classic kundalini. The awakened sexual energy instead of travelling downwards and out of the system, travels upwards, up the spine into the brain where you're said to be illuminated.

[Yascra]

Hmmhmm, a general rule I'd like to hint you at is that meditation doesn't cause health problems, but tends to bring up and clean up things that are already present in your body, in a latent manner. This process can be quite uncomfortable, but usually it is not harmful in itself. Quite the opposite, it helps you to clear out things before they become serious.

Yes, New-Age guys - and this is what most "Yoga-teachers" etc. are - won't be able to help you much with "real" effects.

 

Might you describe your current problem(s), just in a short summary, and what you'd like to do or try out?

Sorry, can't help you about details with TM, because I never tried that. And .. hm, 5 Mins is really not so long, I guess that some part of the problem might be that you're kind afraid of this whole thing so that you can't relax and let things happen.

Have you ever been a religious person?

 

Best to you

Oh, and welcome to the forum!

Edited March 5, 2014 by Yascra

[The Prisoner]

If you wont your inside to be calm, you need calm surroundings.

Sounds like you have a lot of brain power - maybe you are to focused on gaining energy (kundalini)

(If your mind focus on one point in your body or outside, your energy, mind , will is aligned to that point)

 

Meditation:

If you can do the lotus

Just sit - do nothing - eyes open - accept your surroundings - be good

and try to hold the calm in your belly.

[Andrei]

Hi trollo,

 

I would suggest you to try drinking cranberries juice. This will alleviate any pain in the urinary tract and will help reducing inflammations. Also eat tomatoes and take saw palmetto extract pills, this will help your prostate.

 

I am not a specialist in traditional medicine, but i encountered the same issues as you, so i have my own experience. In Ayurvedic terms it seems that you may caused a pitta or vata imbalance in your body. Usually kundalini awakening is associated with pitta and vata. So the way to treat pitta and vata imbalances is to eat kapha foods. You may search on internet what does it mean pitta, vata and kapha or you may buy some Ayurveda books, but this is the way to go to restore your balance. In Taoist terms kapha is similar to water-metal-earth elements. In Taoist terms this means to restore your jing (body fluids) and to increase or add into your practices grounding and earthing practices that will balance the meditation practice which is a fire element practice. So you either cease to meditate and try other cooling practices or you may try both in the same time seeking the balance between the elements. No-one can teach you these things because everybody is different so what works for others may not work you, you have to try different things until you find your own path and your own balance. This will come in time with practice and with experience. Good luck.

[trollo]

Ok. Thanks for the responses. I'll responde to each of you.

 

1. x King:

"Here is my theory about your side effects:

During a good meditation you gather increased amounts of energy into your body, which is not necessarily a good thing. Especially if your body is not ready for it. Imagine using a lightning to power a lamp, the lamp simply can't handle that amouont of energy."

Its possible, yes. For sure my body and brain were not in a good shape, but in TM nobody ever advices you that you need some kind of particularly optimal physical shape to do meditation. Instead it s considered a practice suitable for everyone.

And in fact, reports of bad side effects as mine or worse are very rare. In the almost totality of cases such episodes (that had often led to psychosis) occurred to people involved in 'advanced courses' that implied 'tour de force' of hours of meditation per day. So i simply don't think that all the millions of people practicing TM in the world nowadays or in the past were all persons who had attained a deep livel of internal peace or who prepared their bodies for years with specific disciplines. They were normal and 'impure' persons as i was and still they had just benefits from TM, some had no effect, but for sure the 98% of them didn't had such issues as me.

 

"Do some asanas or a horse stance in the morning for 20minutes."

I actually practice the 8 pieces of brocades everyday, that is already a big commitment.

 

"Drink a lot of water. Try eating vegetarian food at least untill the side effects are gone." I'm vegetarian since i was 17, just recently added fish. Funny enough, on the Kundalini support group somebody suggested to me to eat meat because she said it s 'grounding'...

 

"And do pranayama (once a day is enough, though three times is preferable) for opening the nadis (this is probably the most important part).

Start with an easier pranayama like laying on your back in savasana (the head should be on a higher ground, use a pillow or something else). And breathe in the ratio 1:2 with no pause between the breaths."

I tried a few things after TM. One of this were a few pranayama exercises suggested to me in the KundaliniSupportgroup very similar to the one suggested from you. They had on me an effect similar to TM, but milder: it rose a lot my mood and energy but caused to me bad insomnia and i had to stop.

 

x Idiot_stimpy:

 

"Have you ever explored the possibility that the mobilized energy is causing the body to clear things up? Kind of working through your karma at a rapid rate?"

This was basically one of the things that the TM teacher used to say. 'You re doing clean housing and this is dust' , unluckily this supposed 'dust' lasted for years and if i didn't stop to do 'clean housing' i would have probably been killed by dust (i would have been led to mental insanity at least...)

If you re giving a medicine to a ill person and he feel always worse and worse the more medicine you give, do you insist to give that medicine untill the patient die or do you stop and suspect that maybe there is something wrong?? How long should this 'cleaning' be supposed to last, for the whole life?? How long can a human being live without sleeping?? Should i be supposed to try (at least) to have also a real life or should i withdraw myself from the world for an indefinite amount of time hoping that the 'dust' run out?

 

 

x Yascra:

 

"Hmmhmm, a general rule I'd like to hint you at is that meditation doesn't cause health problems, but tends to bring up and clean up things that are already present in your body, in a latent manner. This process can be quite uncomfortable, but usually it is not harmful in itself. Quite the opposite, it helps you to clear out things before they become serious."

Again, i don t want to be rude but this is a vague and generical statement. There are a lot of things in my life that can be interpreted that way, in a way or another, but this in fact doesn't help me... the question should be interpreted 'medically' but i don't think that Medical Professionals exist who would accept such a supposition game...

As example: Did i have a 'latent' sleep problem?? What should this mean? How should i be supposed to solve it? Did i have latent immune issues? Etc etc..

 

"I guess that some part of the problem might be that you're kind afraid of this whole thing so that you can't relax and let things happen." Of course i'm afraid NOW after i experienced all those bad side effects, but i wasn t afraid at all before i understood that all these issues were scaused by meditation. How should be fear supposed to cause urinary inflammation?

 

"Have you ever been a religious person?"

 

No, and i don't want to be

[trollo]

Hi trollo, I would suggest you to try drinking cranberries juice. This will alleviate any pain in the urinary tract and will help reducing inflammations. Also eat tomatoes and take saw palmetto extract pills, this will help your prostate. I am not a specialist in traditional medicine, but i encountered the same issues as you, so i have my own experience. In Ayurvedic terms it seems that you may caused a pitta or vata imbalance in your body. Usually kundalini awakening is associated with pitta and vata. So the way to treat pitta and vata imbalances is to eat kapha foods. You may search on internet what does it mean pitta, vata and kapha or you may buy some Ayurveda books, but this is the way to go to restore your balance. In Taoist terms kapha is similar to water-metal-earth elements. In Taoist terms this means to restore your jing (body fluids) and to increase or add into your practices grounding and earthing practices that will balance the meditation practice which is a fire element practice. So you either cease to meditate and try other cooling practices or you may try both in the same time seeking the balance between the elements. No-one can teach you these things because everybody is different so what works for others may not work you, you have to try different things until you find your own path and your own balance. This will come in time with practice and with experience. Good luck.

 

Hi. I read about the two nadis Pitta and Vata (i think..) in the book of Gopi Krishna. This is the reason why i'm interested in Microcosmic orbit taoist meditation because it sems to me it could lead to regulate direcly my energy system... I bought this summer a grounding device that i use during sleep. It improved a bit my sleep but nothing miraculous, and it seems to stop working after a few weeks. I always do 8 brocades without shoes. I tried this summer to follow Mantak Chia 's book instructions on MO meditation, but i never felt anything meditating in the Dan tien even after 2 monthes.

Strangely i seemed very sensitive to any yoga practice i tried, but no to taoist meditation. When i signed up last october at Chi gung i did a trial yoga lesson. I don't know what kind of yoga it was, but it involved breathing with various part of the diaphragm.

I did just one lesson but that night i hasn't been able to sleep at all.

The thing i wonder is: shouldn't an ayurvedic doctor be able to help me? How is it possible that an acuputurist were i ve been found out nothing wrong in me? Shouldn't this be supposed to be their job (i mean dealing with energetic imbalances)?

[trollo]

Sorry the nadis Gopi Krishna wrote about were Pingala and Ida

[trollo]

I also contacted Mantak Chia by mail. He responded to my detailed mail with a simple and telegraphic phrase where he say basically what he says in his book, 'spin energy in the dan tian'. The point is that i don't feel any energy at all.

Edited March 5, 2014 by trollo

[NotVoid]

...

Edited March 6, 2014 by NotVoid

[deci belle]

This is one instance where I would recommend that trollo refrain from whatever it was he has ever done in terms of "meditation" and instead intend the perfect enlightenment of all sentient beings for the time being. Just forget it, completely.

 

Cultivate a mind of the impersonal potential for the enlightenment of all sentient beings for the hell of it for the rest of your life in order to offset the inadvertent damager done. You are innocent, but even more so ignorant.

 

Having done harm to yourself, trollo, on account of being unprepared for this kind of "practice" and are suffering an immaterial malady that cannot be cured by conventional means is indicative of a lack of concentration, insight and the burst of power that comes from a state not quite grounded in the affair of the heart.

 

The authentic schools have traditionally required years of study into the nature of psychological and nonpsychological aspects of conscious awareness before even entering into the rudiments of anything remotely distinguished as "meditation."

 

So I will repeat: Do not ever meditate again. If you have the mind to do so, consider a long tenure of study of the classics of the authentic schools of Mahayana, vajrayana , Chan, Zen, or classic taoist texts, ignoring the "meditation" manuals.

 

Let me follow that up with the fact that so-called meditation manuals are not limited to correct instruction for effective meditation technique and are otherwise very important works of cultivating the mind of meditation itself. These works are multi-level affairs that apply "just sitting" or psychosomatic exercises (waterwheel), as a variant of the wisdom ascribed to the classics themselves.

 

In other words, don't read anything having to do with meditation exercises described in the classic meditation manuals into what is the source (and accomplishment) of these manuals.

 

I have never practiced formal meditation in any form for my entire life (and it shows) heehee!!

 

I'm sorry that you have arrived here by way of a great misfortune.

 

It seems you have "fixed something that wasn't broken". Some have suggested that you continue in some vein. I very strongly disagree and hope you follow my advice by:

 

Do something as completely useless as intend the complete and perfect enlightenment of all sentient beings, casually take up the lifelong study of the ancient classics devoted to conscious evolution, and forget meditation for the rest of your life.❤

[Andrei]

Hi, trollo. By the symptoms you have: insomnia, emotional turmoil, urinary tract inflammation, heat sensation up the spine (which is very clear a kundalini awakening) to me is clearly a pitta imbalance. You dried up the sexual fluids, that's all. An ayurvedic doctor should very easy find a treatment for you. The idea that meditation is harmless shows how much ignorance is in this world. This is why practicing harmless techniques from harmless books you (and anybody who is doing this) end up in emergency room or searching for treatments. I would follow decibelle's advice and quit meditation until you really understand what is happening with you. And i would stay away from anything like MO and anything written by Mantak Chia. Basically what he said is right, you need to rotate the energy in the abdomen but provided you have all the right substances in the right places. Thats why you need an ayurvedic or TCM doctor to give you the right recipe for your particular condition. As i said any meditation technique involving mind is fire element and creates pitta imbalance, and any Qigong technique is wind that feeds the fire and creates vata imbalance. The way to go is just rest and do nothing and replenish the dried up tanks with the right substances.

[trollo]

Ok guys, i d like to know if you are some kind of teacher or whatever kind of expertise you have. Seriously.

 

I ve already received the response that i wasn't sufficiently 'spiritually' prepared for a meditation practice, but this in fact doesn't explain why there are billions of common people like me who practice meditation without harms, and i never found a report of such harms as mine with such a sporadic meditation practice.

About the Deci belle suggestion on consecrating the rest of my life into spiritual detaching from the world and religious study, well this doesn't help at all, i want a life, if i wanted to detach from life or get away from it i wouldn't be here now searching for help.

 

About the Steam suggestion: i fear i will find a Ayurvedic dr who simply listen to my story and doesn't understand a single word of it; it happened already. There are a lot of so called ayurvedic dr or TCM drs who are in reality just improvized new-age fellow that should do another kind of job in their life.

[idiot_stimpy]

I would contest that there are not billions of people practicing meditation. Other than through the internet, I only know of one other person who practices Zazen to calm their mind. There are many different types of meditation, what works for one personality will not bare the same fruit as another.

 

I would suggest that its not the awakened energy that's messing you up. Its your own internal issues that needs to be sorted out that are causing the issue. Sort out your own problems, and I think you will find it will help you greatly. If you're depressed you need to get to the reason 'why', then work through it and let it go. Sometimes you can't get what you want and you have to just accept it. With that acceptance comes a massive relief.

[trollo]

Believe me there are millions of people in the world who practice TM. If you consider all the people who practiced it since the 60's till now you get an incalculable number. Expecially in USA trancendental meditation was incredibly widespread in the 70's and other widespread forms derived from it like Deepak Chopra or Benson's relaxation technique exist.

[Yascra]

x Yascra:

 

"Hmmhmm, a general rule I'd like to hint you at is that meditation doesn't cause health problems, but tends to bring up and clean up things that are already present in your body, in a latent manner. This process can be quite uncomfortable, but usually it is not harmful in itself. Quite the opposite, it helps you to clear out things before they become serious."

Again, i don t want to be rude but this is a vague and generical statement. There are a lot of things in my life that can be interpreted that way, in a way or another, but this in fact doesn't help me... the question should be interpreted 'medically' but i don't think that Medical Professionals exist who would accept such a supposition game...

As example: Did i have a 'latent' sleep problem?? What should this mean? How should i be supposed to solve it? Did i have latent immune issues? Etc etc..

 

"I guess that some part of the problem might be that you're kind afraid of this whole thing so that you can't relax and let things happen." Of course i'm afraid NOW after i experienced all those bad side effects, but i wasn t afraid at all before i understood that all these issues were scaused by meditation. How should be fear supposed to cause urinary inflammation?

 

"Have you ever been a religious person?"

 

No, and i don't want to be

 

Hm, I also don't want to be rude, but I'd suggest you to work a little bit on the trial to keep a friendly attitude to people, not limited to, but especially concerning people whom you're asking to help you.

 

Have a good time anyway

Edited March 6, 2014 by Yascra

[trollo]

I would contest that there are not billions of people practicing meditation. Other than through the internet, I only know of one other person who practices Zazen to calm their mind. There are many different types of meditation, what works for one personality will not bare the same fruit as another.

 

I would suggest that its not the awakened energy that's messing you up. Its your own internal issues that needs to be sorted out that are causing the issue. Sort out your own problems, and I think you will find it will help you greatly. If you're depressed you need to get to the reason 'why', then work through it and let it go. Sometimes you can't get what you want and you have to just accept it. With that acceptance comes a massive relief.

There isn't always a reason 'why' for things like depression unluckily. This is the real problem. Also about the disturbs i developed after meditation... well sorting out them it s exactly what i'm trying to do, that s why i'm here too. But this seems a task harder than i expected. I too alreday wondered by myself if all those issues wasn't in some way medical and psychological problems that my body was trying to keep under control and that meditation triggered out. But the point is: now that they popped out how do i practically solve them?

[trollo]

Hm, I also don't want to be rude, but I'd suggest you to work a little bit on the trial to keep a friendly attitude to people, not limited to, but especially concerning people whom you're asking to help you.

 

Have a good time anyway

 

Yascra, i think you should try to identify yourself with someone who didn't came here just to have a little talk, but who is actually quite in desperation and in need of 'practical' help and information. If you say something that i don't find practically useful or not clear to understand/implement or incomplete i have to point it out. I need to pull out a practically constructive converstation from this thread, and i cannot put before etiquette to this. Also a productive conversation moves throughout critics, questions and clarifications and i don't see anything rude in this.

 

As i already wrote i don t want to be rude but i need to be 'practical'. I need to find practically useful information and that's all.

Again, i'm not here just to talk but there s my health at stake.

 

P.S. Also your suggetions were actually the first things to be pointed out from the TM teacher, and we had a long and unhappy conversation on this, cause his statements weren t going to help me practically in any way. The experience with this TM teacher has been terrible at least, and that's probably why i immediately rejected your ideas (which could be anyway also in part be true).

Edited March 6, 2014 by trollo

[trollo]

Also i please ask again everybody to specify your level of experience of the matter when you put a response here. I m in need of suggestions from persons who are really knowledgeable or who had a similar experience like me and possibly who found a solution, or who know some very knowledgeable person to contact to suggest to me. I'm already confused enough.

Edited March 6, 2014 by trollo

[Colonel Goji]

Edited March 6, 2014 by Colonel Goji

[C T]

Besides the very sound advice from Deci Belle, maybe you can write to Daniel Ingram. He is a meditation teacher whom i believe will take the time to listen and evaluate your situation, and perhaps offer some sound suggestions, if he's not too busy.

 

This is his webpage: http://integrateddaniel.info/

 

 

Or, try Bodhipaksa at Wildmind. Another teacher whom i know responds to queries with a certain level of integrity.

 

http://www.wildmind.org/

 

 

 

Personally, speaking from roughly 30 years of Buddhist practice, its my feeling, in common with Deci Belle's, that you have over-burdened yourself, and experiencing a kick back from trying too many things, perhaps out of desperation. Thats of course quite a natural response, bearing in mind the anxiety that has befallen you due to obvious reasons as stated in your posts.

 

The situation can be remedied, but will take some time due to the many knots which you have kept adding over time. This of course makes the unravelling process a little more complex, but not impossible. If i may, i'd like to point out that you are currently undergoing a contractive period (as caused by over-practice and over-loading of desire to get well) ~ in order to reclaim some level of balance where such contractions can have the space to dissipate, you can begin by loosening your tightly-focussed attention on your dilemma (another way to say this is that you are too self-absorbed at present, concentrated a hundred percent on your own problems only without having any thought whatsoever for others).

 

An effective way to begin reversing this contraction is to instil a new program of thought and habit, beginning with creating awareness of space, both inner and outer. There is nothing to adopt formally. Just drop everything you are holding to tightly in your mind, and turn your attention whenever possible to the empty space around you, or gaze up at the sky, feel the vast openness, and make a connection with that space thru simply resting on the awareness that your breath and that open, sky-like spaciousness is one and the same. Just short moments, like 5 minutes or so per session, hold this awareness loosely, and then let go. After a couple of hours, return to the same practice, and keep doing a few sessions daily, say, for 21 days, and see where this takes you. Its a simple exercise which does not require much effort. In fact, effortlessness is key.

 

Just drop everything you have held to be right/wrong, this practice vs. that method, good meditation vs. bad, all that baggage has to be put aside for the time being, at least for this 21 days if you choose to try my suggestion. After this period, if you think its nonsense, then by all means, go back to carrying the load on your shoulder. In the meantime, do write to the gentlemen i have linked to above and explain yourself, tell them you are really stressed out. I believe they are genuinely in the position to give good advice if they are available to do so.

 

May peace enter your being. x

[Yascra]

I would add:

If it's just about recovering your health, it might be better to just consult a good TCM doctor than try to learn meditation. Meditation doesn't clear up things in a week, it takes months to years. If it's urgent it's not the first method of choice, especially not as the only method.

 

And yes, talking and writing are not the real thing. The real thing is that you'll have to engage, and you'll have to do something. If it's too much work for you to have a look on the contents of a homepage that offers a lot for free, besides having a look on literature, which I answered to your first PM, progress won't happen. If you don't want to listen but just scream around how bad you feel that's not a basis to show you anything or explain anything to you.

How do you wanna know something's not worthwhile. Beginners never know what's worthwhile. You have to make experiences and try things out for yourself to be sure about it. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

 

Edited March 6, 2014 by Yascra

[trollo]

Besides the very sound advice from Deci Belle, maybe you can write to Daniel Ingram. He is a meditation teacher whom i believe will take the time to listen and evaluate your situation, and perhaps offer some sound suggestions, if he's not too busy.

 

This is his webpage: http://integrateddaniel.info/

 

 

Or, try Bodhipaksa at Wildmind. Another teacher whom i know responds to queries with a certain level of integrity.

 

http://www.wildmind.org/

 

 

 

Personally, speaking from roughly 30 years of Buddhist practice, its my feeling, in common with Deci Belle's, that you have over-burdened yourself, and experiencing a kick back from trying too many things, perhaps out of desperation. Thats of course quite a natural response, bearing in mind the anxiety that has befallen you due to obvious reasons as stated in your posts.

 

The situation can be remedied, but will take some time due to the many knots which you have kept adding over time. This of course makes the unravelling process a little more complex, but not impossible. If i may, i'd like to point out that you are currently undergoing a contractive period (as caused by over-practice and over-loading of desire to get well) ~ in order to reclaim some level of balance where such contractions can have the space to dissipate, you can begin by loosening your tightly-focussed attention on your dilemma (another way to say this is that you are too self-absorbed at present, concentrated a hundred percent on your own problems only without having any thought whatsoever for others).

 

An effective way to begin reversing this contraction is to instil a new program of thought and habit, beginning with creating awareness of space, both inner and outer. There is nothing to adopt formally. Just drop everything you are holding to tightly in your mind, and turn your attention whenever possible to the empty space around you, or gaze up at the sky, feel the vast openness, and make a connection with that space thru simply resting on the awareness that your breath and that open, sky-like spaciousness is one and the same. Just short moments, like 5 minutes or so per session, hold this awareness loosely, and then let go. After a couple of hours, return to the same practice, and keep doing a few sessions daily, say, for 21 days, and see where this takes you. Its a simple exercise which does not require much effort. In fact, effortlessness is key.

 

Just drop everything you have held to be right/wrong, this practice vs. that method, good meditation vs. bad, all that baggage has to be put aside for the time being, at least for this 21 days if you choose to try my suggestion. After this period, if you think its nonsense, then by all means, go back to carrying the load on your shoulder. In the meantime, do write to the gentlemen i have linked to above and explain yourself, tell them you are really stressed out. I believe they are genuinely in the position to give good advice if they are available to do so.

 

May peace enter your being. x

 

Hello. I think you maybe misunderstood what i wrote. Maybe you got the impression that i tried many different kinds of meditation practices all togheter. It's not so. I did TM since 2009 to 2011, then stopped. Then i tried a few things that a few people suggested to me on that Kundalini Support group. First i tried the pranayama exercises as i already wrote. And i had another time insomnia, so i had to stop. Then i tried QiGong, and i'm still practicing it, though the benefits are quite absent.

That's all. I don t understand why you think i over burdened... i don't think i did. Instead i did very few things, in part because of the fact that i have difficulties on reading (due to my problems) expecially from a website (the monitor hurts my eyes a bit and makes my brain confuse). I still have to finish the Gopi Krishna book that i began in hope of some answer.

 

I think i didn t understand what you mean for 'contraction'.

Anyway the reason if i focus a lot on those issues (as well as into all other problems i may have) is because they are simply impeding my life, and as i cannot simply substite it with that of another man, i have no choice than trying to solve them.

I m not focused every day of my life on meditation issues, i focus on other problems as well, but often i realise that i should have employed more of my time for them (medit. side effects) because i suspect they are the cause for many of my actual health problems.. Instead i believe i wasted quite a lot of time without doing nothing.

 

about what i wrote on Mantak Chia: well as i was suggested to do MO meditation i read a book of Mantak Chia and i found out with big surprise a part where he speaks exactly of meditation side efffects and Kundalini-alike side effects. He writes he cured that just with MO meditation 'cause he explain those kind of disturbs as an incorrect circulation of Qi throughout channels. The book i'm referring to is 'Awakening the healing energy through the Tao'.

Guys i never invented anything of what i did. Everything i did or read about was suggested by some fellow like you. Like here, also in the Kundalini support group i've been overwhelmed by a big amount of different suggestions all in contraddiction with each other, that led me to more confusion than before. I could have wasted my whole life to try them all, even the most absurd of them. but i simply selected the more reasonable and easy to implement and to understand for my means.

Edited March 6, 2014 by trollo