Chinese definition of compassion

[CloudHands]

I'm would like to know more about the differences between western and chinese meaning of the concept of compassion. If some sinophile or any bilingual people want to share their knowledge about it.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Aside from differences in Confucianism, Buddhism, Taoism, Mohism, Christianity, etc., etc., there are also individual perceptions from person to person, so it's difficult to even begin a response to the question in its current form.

[CloudHands]

I'm of course not talking about personal perception but sort of average understanding in taoist context. Do I need me to define more ? I have more interest in this question for the period of the early classics (-500 -300). I'm not asking an exegesis, except if you want/can do so.

Nice avatar !

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Okay, 'cause we could have a whole conversation about compassion in Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism, and we haven't even gotten out of China yet .

 

What is compassion in the West? There's the perception, and then there's the practice.

 

I find the West is much less family oriented. Families seem much closer in other parts of the world. Some of the deepest compassion is probably shown to family members, so one might say there is a deeper compassion where family is tight, and more so where family is large. I find families of African descent tend to be more family oriented, being close to their distant cousins, etc., than what would normally be considered "the West," so how do we define the West too? It's so diverse now!

 

So comparing that to the Confucian side of Chinese Taoists, I'm not sure what to say. Maybe someone else has a further comment on that...?

[CloudHands]

I don't know if it's really compassion or more related to the needs. In my experience lot of caring in the extended family is a poor habit because they don't have much else to rely on, so it's needed. I noticed that from migrant here too maybe with people from maghrebi in particular. Caring stops when family gets disintegrated.

 

3 years ago I have seen a Chinese documentary small budget confidential public. It was about a Chinese family in a small country town, the main fact was the death of one member of the family (grand mother I think) but the movie director's lived for a long time with them (it took a lot of time to be accepted as one of them). I remember that the family was the street, all the neighbors were caring and not only about death. I want to say that family unit there was much larger than blood and that something that the filmmaker (City Citizen Chinese, another Culture) emphasized.

 

I link that to another movie I saw more recently, it gave homeless people in Paris opportunity of self expression "Au bord du monde" ("At the edge of the world" 2014). One of them said that humanity is going down because we keep looking for ease so we are losing the essence. This man was very true in all his saying.

 

Well I guess topic is dilated like a country side Chinese family

"Worst come to worst my people come first"

Edited March 7, 2014 by CloudHands

[Harmonious Emptiness]

 

I don't know if it's really compassion or more related to the needs. In my experience lot of caring in the extended family is a poor habit because they don't have much else to rely on, so it's needed. I noticed that from migrant here too maybe with people from maghrebi in particular. Caring stops when family gets disintegrated.

[....]

 

Not necessarily. I find that people who come from these extended families are often more generous, more friendly, and caring of their friends. There may be some where the families seem closed to outsiders, but that might just be behaviours related to not speaking the language of the majority and so relying on family for everything.

[CloudHands]

It's a bit too general... but I agree with you, totally.

[Stosh]

It's a bit too general... but I agree with you, totally.

 

Im not sure the differing ideas about compassion lie along a Chinese vs Western line ( though there may be linguistic distinctions, and there appears to be philosopical generalizations one can make society to society .) but in the sprit of the question...

 

My personal reading of the eastern classical idea of compassion is that although one understands the human condition of both themselves and others , and does have a strong emotional relatedness feeling , re: the suffering of others,,

BUT the impetus is not so much on interfering in order to rectify the unhappy state of the suffering Other.

And that you should actually avoid interfering.

(because the understanding is that one cant really remedy the unhappiness caused by the othersself on the othersself.

as in , the old saying, you can lead a horse to water, if he lets you , but even then you cannot force him to drink ,,

and I know I do not welcome being pushed by someone else ...

so how could it make sense for me to think someone else would welcome it , from me?)

 

For westerners , the idea that ones sense of compassion should be followed in a more proactive approach , that one should if they can , provide what lacks ,and or and press someone in the right direction, as one sees it , even if it is interfering and unwelcomed.

So to sum the point , while the human feeling of compassion is probably very much the same for most people anywhere , the philosophical attitude about whom to extend this compassion to,,, and how proactive one should be about it , is the more variable consideration.

 

That all said , Im thinking that the best one can do , to actually be functionally most compassionate , is to yes be involved with the welfare of others , to yes , place a strong importance on their well being,, BUT to maintain enough of a distance that one is not also embroiled in the pain or emotional turmoil of the person they wish to impact beneficially.

Craziness, neurosis , agony etc ..,,because they are rigidly anchored,,, tends to drag a rescuer down with the victim

In emergencies one has to keep their head as well , to not get all frantic and upset and thrashing around in blindness.

Again, a somewhat aloof perspective frees one to act most rationally and do the best for all.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Stosh

[dawei]

I am not sure there is an answer to your question; or if there is really a valid question at all.

 

One cannot understand chinese unless they understand xenophobia. And then, realize the concentric circles of self-family-others. Consider even the daoist mandate: Save self.

 

The tough part of consider compassion is that it means either there is not compassion or a need for compassion... but due to the ideas of historical ideas of 'saving and giving face', the role of compassion is reduced to non-existent on some level.

 

I almost think if you asked 100,000 chinese about this, they would say: You need to be compassionate... and then watch them and your lucky to see even a few who appear to live it. It is just an idea; it is not life for them. Their survival has been more about not needing to consider this social thorn/norm.

[CloudHands]

Im not sure the differing ideas about compassion lie along a Chinese vs Western line ( though there may be linguistic distinctions, and there appears to be philosopical generalizations one can make society to society .) but in the sprit of the question...

 

Actually I'm very interested in both language's connotations. So what other concepts gravitates around the chinese idea of compassion.

 

 

So to sum the point , while the human feeling of compassion is probably very much the same for most people anywhere , the philosophical attitude about whom to extend this compassion to,,, and how proactive one should be about it , is the more variable consideration.

Craziness, neurosis , agony etc ..,,because they are rigidly anchored,,, tends to drag a rescuer down with the victim

 

 

I consider that oriental (mainly confu, taoism, buddhism) philosophy tends to be practical, useful, before anything else, that's a major difference with hebrew/christian's basic world's conception which tends to sublime relation to suffering.

In one hand you try to directly avoid what hurts you in the other hand you have to find beauty in suffering.

 

 

 

I am not sure there is an answer to your question; or if there is really a valid question at all.

 

One cannot understand chinese unless they understand xenophobia. And then, realize the concentric circles of self-family-others. Consider even the daoist mandate: Save self.

 

The tough part of consider compassion is that it means either there is not compassion or a need for compassion... but due to the ideas of historical ideas of 'saving and giving face', the role of compassion is reduced to non-existent on some level.

 

I almost think if you asked 100,000 chinese about this, they would say: You need to be compassionate... and then watch them and your lucky to see even a few who appear to live it. It is just an idea; it is not life for them. Their survival has been more about not needing to consider this social thorn/norm.

 

Yes the question is not well defined but everyone's opinion is welcome.

 

For sure noadays xenophobia is tangible with migrant Chinese folks, they're the only migrant population that does not melt.

So you think this attitude is rooted so far (BC) in Chinese culture ? Do you have an explanation ? Interesting.

 

"Confucian by day and Taoist by night" does that evoke something to you ?

[dawei]

For sure noadays xenophobia is tangible with migrant Chinese folks, they're the only migrant population that does not melt.

So you think this attitude is rooted so far (BC) in Chinese culture ? Do you have an explanation ? Interesting.

 

Realize they have always seen outsiders as the foreign devil; and outsiders represented anyone outside of a stone's throw at times. The State of Chu were called Barbarians, and they were neighbors... Anciently they had names for those to the north, south, east, and west; all derogatory. Today you can still see it but it is kept buried deep. It has shown up on this site several times too. But yes, it is in the culture and rooted to the past, IMO.

 

"Confucian by day and Taoist by night" does that evoke something to you ?

 

That's a philosophical idea for the most part; ask 100 chinese about laozi and they won't have a single quote; they might say something but your likely to point out to them that Confucius said it. But one can observe this sayings truism.

[thelerner]

Theres the concept of compassion, in books and theory, then there's how it plays out in real life; say a disaster that strikes a city, then you see how a society demonstrates compassion to those who suffer. That would make an interesting litmus test. Somewhere on the internet there must be a relative apples to apples comparisons.

[CloudHands]

That's a philosophical idea for the most part; ask 100 chinese about laozi and they won't have a single quote; they might say something but your likely to point out to them that Confucius said it. But one can observe this sayings truism.

 

How long have you been in China ?