What If I Am Not The Ocean?

[DreamBliss]

I am reading Jeff Foster's, "Deepest Acceptance." The other night I picked it out of the 2 dozen or so texts I have next to my bed from the library, and it inspired my previous thread.

 

Reading it I learned I need to stop resisting the present moment. I became aware that I was constantly thinking about the future or the past. Or I would try to avoid the world by putting my nose in a book or some ear buds in my ears. I have only started the re-programming process today.

 

Reading the next chapter, "The Ocean of Acceptance" a question came to mind. So this thread will be really short, for once.

 

My question is simply this... What if there is no life after this one? What if there is only this one, physical existance and nothing else afterward? How would that affect being in the present moment?

 

Because I could no longer claim that I am the ocean and the waves of present moment experience can not affect me. There is no I, in this example, no Higher Self, to live on, to remain unaffected by the happenings in the physical realm. In this example there is only my me, my physical body.

 

In other words, what if this whole "present moment" thing is a big pile of dog doodoo? Not saying that this is the case, merely asking what if. Looking for a clear perspective on this.

Edited March 7, 2014 by DreamBliss

[gatito]

I am reading Jeff Foster's, "Deepest Acceptance." The other night I picked it out of the 2 dozen or so texts I have next to my bed from the library, and it inspired my previous thread.

 

Reading it I learned I need to stop resisting the present moment. I became aware that I was constantly thinking about the future or the past. Or I would try to avoid the world by putting my nose in a book or some ear buds in my ears. I have only started the re-programming process today.

 

Reading the next chapter, "The Ocean of Acceptance" a question came to mind. So this thread will be really short, for once.

 

My question is simply this... What if there is no life after this one? What if there is only this one, physical existance and nothing else afterward? How would that affect being in the present moment?

 

Because I could no longer claim that I am the ocean and the waves of present moment experience can not affect me. There is no I, in this example, no Higher Self, to live on, to remain unaffected by the happenings in the physical realm. In this example there is only my me, my physical body.

 

In other words, what if this whole "present moment" thing is a big pile of dog doodoo? Not saying that this is the case, merely asking what if. Looking for a clear perspective on this.

 

The clearest perspective on this is your own direct first-hand experience.

 

You would need to investigate your own direct first-hand experience and, unfortunately, Jeff isn't the best person to help you with that.

 

It can take many years to investigate your own beliefs about what's going on and start to rely instead on your own experience instead of what's written in books or on internet forums.

 

Your question: -

 

"What if there is no life after this one? What if there is only this one, physical existance and nothing else afterward? How would that affect being in the present moment?"

 

would be meaningless if there is indeed only the present moment - wouldn't it?

[Marblehead]

What if? Yes, what if a frog had wings? He wouldn't bump his ass when he jumps. But he has no wings. Therefore he gets a sore butt.

 

It is true, there is only the present moment; the past is written and the future isn't here yet.

 

What if there is no afterlife? Why should that have anything to do with living in the moment.

 

What if we are not the ocean? At least we are a raindrop that, along with many other raindrops allow the ocean to exist.

 

Yes, there is an "I" (you). You are a raindrop. And at times you might be that wave that washes a coconut onto a beach that will eventually become a tree bearing fruit.

[Jetsun]

The trick is that you can't stop resisting the present moment, you as a separate self are resistance.

[Sahaj Nath]

I am reading Jeff Foster's, "Deepest Acceptance." The other night I picked it out of the 2 dozen or so texts I have next to my bed from the library, and it inspired my previous thread.

 

Reading it I learned I need to stop resisting the present moment. I became aware that I was constantly thinking about the future or the past. Or I would try to avoid the world by putting my nose in a book or some ear buds in my ears. I have only started the re-programming process today.

 

Reading the next chapter, "The Ocean of Acceptance" a question came to mind. So this thread will be really short, for once.

 

My question is simply this... What if there is no life after this one? What if there is only this one, physical existance and nothing else afterward? How would that affect being in the present moment?

 

Because I could no longer claim that I am the ocean and the waves of present moment experience can not affect me. There is no I, in this example, no Higher Self, to live on, to remain unaffected by the happenings in the physical realm. In this example there is only my me, my physical body.

 

In other words, what if this whole "present moment" thing is a big pile of dog doodoo? Not saying that this is the case, merely asking what if. Looking for a clear perspective on this.

 

couple of things come to mind.

 

first, you should not claim that you are the ocean or any such thing anyway, not unless that is your experience, i'm a spiritual cultivator, driven by the desire to know through direct experience. beliefs without the work and direct experience is impotent. the practices we engage in are not charades to occupy our time or give us some false sense of control in a chaotic world; those practices are technologies that give us direct access to the wisdom and experiences written about by the masters who used them before us.

 

second, if this is the only life we live and the only time we get, then the present moment becomes even more precious, not less so. the present moment is all that we have. it's the only place where we live, the only place where life is happening. and the opportunity to realize that is getting smaller by the day. i don't know about anyone else, but i don't waste energy fantasizing about other lives or magical realms. when students ask me questions about reincarnation, i make it a point to tell them something that unsettles them. death is coming, and whatever will be in the after, will be. but now is what you've got, so what are you gonna do with it?

 

 

not sure if this was the kind of thing you had in mind, but it's what came up for me.

[gatito]

@ Dreambliss

 

Having looked at the other thread to which you refer, it also occurs to me that these words of Parmenides could be helpful :-

Now then, I will instruct you; hear what I say:

Two paths are open to investigation.

The first says: being is and non-being is not.

It is the path of certainty, because it follows the truth.

The other says: being is not, therefore non-being is.

This misdirected path, I tell you, cannot lead to a sound conviction

For, if this statement were true, it would not be possible for you to conceive of non-being, nor to name it.

Speaking and thinking necessarily arise from being, because being is.

And non-being is not. I invite you to reflect deeply on this point,

And to move away, in your search, from that other path

As from the one traveled by those ignorant mortals

Who are the men of two minds: the uncertainty which resides in their hearts

Misleads their wavering reason. They are swept along,

Deaf and blind, benighted, the masses without discernment

Who pretend that being and non-being are simultaneously identical

And different, they for whom, for any statement, the opposite is equally true.

No power will ever bring non-being into existence.

So direct your thinking away from this path of exploration.

May habit, so often resumed, not force you to return to it,

With eyes blinded, ears filled with noise

And mouth with words, and may your intelligence alone resolve this contentious issue.

Only one path remains for us to pursue:

Being is. And countless signs prove

That being is free from birth and death

Because it is complete, immutable and eternal.

It never was, it never will be, because it is completely whole in the now,

One, endless. What beginning, indeed, should we attribute to it?

Whence would it evolve? Whither?

I will not allow you to say or to think that it comes from nothingness,

Nor that being is not. What exigency would have brought it forth

Later or earlier, from non-being?

Thus, it can only be, absolutely, or not at all.

Our firm innermost conviction will never admit

That something can spring forth from nothingness.

In this way the goddess of Justice, forbidding birth and death,

Preserves without respite the existence of being. Whereas the question was to resolve

Whether being is or is not. We must therefore decide to abandon as false

The second hypothesis, the path which can neither be thought nor formulated,

And to hold to the first, which is the path of the truth.

How could what is, one day cease to be? How could it have, one day, come to be?

What is born, is not, neither what is to be born.

Thus dies birth and thus dies death.

Within being there remain no differences because it is completely identical to itself.

There is not, here, something more that comes to break continuity

Neither, there, something less: but everything is filled with being.

Thus it is all continuous: being adjoined to being.

On the other hand, maintained motionless by powerful links,

It is without beginning and without end, since birth and death

Have been rejected as contrary to our intuition of truth.

Remaining itself, existing within itself, supported by itself,

Thus, immutable, it remains in the same place because the powerful necessity,

Hemming it in from all sides, keeps it firmly unified.

That is why it is not permitted that being be unfinished,

Because there is nothing missing in it; unfinished, it would be missing everything!

Thought is identical to being, and so it is for the object to which thought refers;

Thus there is nothing, and there will never be anything, outside of being

Which Destiny compels to an eternal bliss. Thus,

To be born and to die, to be or not to be,

To change place or appearance,

All of these events are but names superimposed by man’s ignorance.

Being the ultimate, it is everywhere complete.

Just as an harmoniously round sphere

Departs equally at all points from its center.

Nothing can be added to it here nor taken away from it there.

What is not, cannot interrupt it’s homogeneous existence.

What is, cannot possess it more or less. Out of all reach,

Everywhere identical to itself, beyond all limits, it is.

 

Translated from ancient Greek by Francis Lucille, edited by David Jennings

In your situation - regarding the appropriate tool for the job, I think that you would find Mindfulness for Beginners by Jon Kabat-Zin to be of immense help - buy it and give it eight weeks of practice every day.

Edited March 7, 2014 by gatito

[thelerner]

My question is simply this... What if there is no life after this one? What if there is only this one, physical existance and nothing else afterward? How would that affect being in the present moment?

 

 

In other words, what if this whole "present moment" thing is a big pile of dog doodoo? Not saying that this is the case, merely asking what if. Looking for a clear perspective on this.

Personally, I think its possible. That the afterlife is a convenient myth. We are temporary beings using electro chemical processes and when we die, its an off switch- game over man. Don't know, probably can't know for sure. There are hints in religions, direct experience in higher meditation and dreamwork, but I don't think there are any for sures.

 

Yet, I don't think that invalidates the present moment. If anything it makes the present moment that much more important, because after this life, there's nothing. Enjoy yourself, and in my philosophy add to world, make it bit better for those who come next. U may be temporary but you're part of a chain. Your actions do affect the world in some small ways, you have the power to make the world a better place after you leave or worse.

 

and who knows, maybe there is an afterlife and we're judged. and we can walk up jesus, punch him in the nose and say 'Next time write a freakin book yourself, one thats clear so people don't commit thousands of years of violence in your name.