ChiDragon Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) The OP has the right idea about meditation for Taoists. A Taoist do not meditation like a Buddhist. However, there is one thing in common, both may be doing Chi Kung while in the sitting position. The Buddhist may be in contemplation for exploring the principles in Buddhism for enlightenment; while the Taoist is thinking of nothing to be putting his mind in a neutral state.What I am getting at is that the people do not have a good understanding of the definition of the word "meditation" for different religious groups. All the confusion was that they are trying to apply the definition from one group to another without knowing the intended purpose of meditation. Edited March 10, 2014 by ChiDragon 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SonOfTheGods Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) Edited March 10, 2014 by SonOfTheGods Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SonOfTheGods Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) It's like your body is totally asleep right? When you wake up from that state your body are stiff all over. Unlike when walking up from sleep. Do you go to delta in meditation? I am totally unaware of having a physical structure. I am unaware of any sort of physical confinement. I have no idea if I am in my temple, outside or on Mars. I might appear to be in a coma for all intents and purposes by an examining physician. My wife already knows to wait a few days before having me imbalmed, just in case I lapse into a deep trance and "they" pronounce me dead. The room around me bangs, the floors bang, windows pop, walls pop-computer pops, ceiling sounds like someone running on our roof - EMI throughout the place. This is VERY REAL. It's hilarious to even "Imagine" myself in this state doing mundane things! ZOMBIE! Edited March 10, 2014 by SonOfTheGods 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted March 10, 2014 The OP has the right idea about meditation for Taoists. A Taoist do not meditation like a Buddhist. However, there is one thing in common, both may be doing Chi Kung while in the sitting position. The Buddhist may be in contemplation for exploring the principles in Buddhism for enlightenment; while the Taoist is thinking of nothing to be putting his mind in a neutral state. What I am getting at is that the people do not have a good understanding of the definition of the word "meditation" for different religious groups. All the confusion was that they are trying to apply the definition from one group to another without knowing the intended purpose of meditation. Mr Chi Dragon, I don't know Chi Gung enough to comment, but evidently your knowledge of Buddhist methods are fairly lacking. Hence, this is a polite request that you cease and desist in attempts at showing that you have a good understanding of what Buddhist meditation work consists of, and restrict your comments to what you are quite sure you think you have a good grasp of, which, i hope, pertains solely to Taoist arts. This is to avoid misleading those who may think that you are an authority on all things Taoist and Buddhist. Seriously. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ish Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) My noob opinion - The foundation of Daoism is "Dao". A high non-conceptual energy. Meditation is simply one tool for reaching this. Edited March 10, 2014 by Ish 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheExaltedRonin Posted March 10, 2014 @CT he is right to an extent. The Buddhist form of meditation was adapted into taoism during the introduction of Buddhism into China. He is correct. Many people are extremely misled. I mean, simply reading the tao te Ching will tell you this. There is no form of mindfulness nor sitting meditation within the works. Hence, the fact that it was merged at a later date as a stepping stone. To what? Who knows. Its in confrontation with wu Wei and the basic principles. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) @CT he is right to an extent. The Buddhist form of meditation was adapted into taoism during the introduction of Buddhism into China. He is correct. Many people are extremely misled. I mean, simply reading the tao te Ching will tell you this. There is no form of mindfulness nor sitting meditation within the works. Hence, the fact that it was merged at a later date as a stepping stone. To what? Who knows. Its in confrontation with wu Wei and the basic principles. Mr Chi Dragon's understanding (of Buddhist meditation practices) is pretty superficial. Edited March 10, 2014 by C T 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adept Posted March 10, 2014 Its in confrontation with wu Wei and the basic principles. If anything, correctly practiced meditation adheres to the principles of the Dao. Zazen is quintessential wu-wei. The ultimate non-interference method of meditation, just sitting. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) If anything, correctly practiced meditation adheres to the principles of the Dao. Zazen is quintessential wu-wei. The ultimate non-interference method of meditation, just sitting. Here is my superficial understanding about Zazen is definitely not just sitting doing nothing. If so, any non Buddhist and Taoist can do it. @Mr. CT... You don't even have a superficial understanding of what Zazen is. Edited March 10, 2014 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted March 10, 2014 Here is my superficial understanding about Zazen is definitely not just sitting doing nothing. If so, any non Buddhist and Taoist can do it. @Mr. CT... You don't even have a superficial understanding of what Zazen is. What is the basis of your trite remark, Mr Chi Dragon? Are you offended by the request i made earlier, and, as a result, you are lashing out blindly? If so, its understandable. Zazen is an extremely effective practice. However, its not a part of my training, so there is actually no basis to your mediocre, unpromising remark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted March 10, 2014 Mr. CT....No offense, I saw that you liked Post #33 which something was invalid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheExaltedRonin Posted March 10, 2014 In all truth- Zazen and meditation is far from taoist teachings. Read the tao the Ching and instruct yourselves- Where is one directed to sit and breathe? Cultivating stillness in Lao tzu's words means to do nothing until action is required. This is a taoist forum yet so rarely do people practice simplicity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheExaltedRonin Posted March 10, 2014 I believe we can all learn from it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted March 10, 2014 In all truth- Zazen and meditation is far from taoist teachings. Read the tao the Ching and instruct yourselves- Where is one directed to sit and breathe? Cultivating stillness in Lao tzu's words means to do nothing until action is required. This is a taoist forum yet so rarely do people practice simplicity. In post 33, Adept was contemplating the essence of Zazen practice, not the mechanics/politics of it. You seem more concerned with the outer trappings rather than the fundamental essences, the kernels, which lie deep at the heart of contemplative work in all the authentic meditative paths. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ish Posted March 10, 2014 Here is my superficial understanding about Zazen is definitely not just sitting doing nothing. If so, any non Buddhist and Taoist can do it. @Mr. CT... You don't even have a superficial understanding of what Zazen is. Yes, any non buddhist or taoist can do it. But generally can people really just sit and do nothing? Actually i think it is found to be very difficult, due to the restless mind, we always want to "do" or fixate on something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted March 10, 2014 Mr. CT.... No offense, I saw that you liked Post #33 which something was invalid. Im surprised you could actually derive some sort of definitive opinion about what i lack understanding in based on me liking a post. That's really a little naive, dont you agree? Dont be a silly goat dragon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheExaltedRonin Posted March 10, 2014 @CT That's certainly a matter of opinion. All people have a path and they are all different. What seems to be a fundamental process for YOU might not be others. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) Yes, any non buddhist or taoist can do it. But generally can people really just sit and do nothing? Actually i think it is found to be very difficult, due to the restless mind, we always want to "do" or fixate on something. The thing that I am getting at was there is something more to Zazen than just sitting still and doing nothing. Im surprised you could actually derive some sort of definitive opinion about what i lack understanding in based on me liking a post. That's really a little naive, dont you agree? Dont be a silly goat dragon. I guess you didn't follow the logic. The logic here was that you liked something which made you agreed to something without realizing that is invalid. I will ignore the last remark due to somebody's ignorance. Edited March 10, 2014 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted March 10, 2014 The thing that I am getting at was there is something more to Zazen than just sitting still and doing nothing. I guess you didn't follow the logic. The logic here was that you liked something which made you agreed to something without realizing that is invalid. I will ignore the last remark due to somebody's ignorance. i dont know whether to laugh or to feel insulted. Really dont get what you are trying to say, sorry, Mr Chi Dragon. Just forget it. I'll try not to bother you ever again. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tendou Posted March 11, 2014 I am totally unaware of having a physical structure. I am unaware of any sort of physical confinement. I have no idea if I am in my temple, outside or on Mars. I might appear to be in a coma for all intents and purposes by an examining physician. My wife already knows to wait a few days before having me imbalmed, just in case I lapse into a deep trance and "they" pronounce me dead. The room around me bangs, the floors bang, windows pop, walls pop-computer pops, ceiling sounds like someone running on our roof - EMI throughout the place. This is VERY REAL. It's hilarious to even "Imagine" myself in this state doing mundane things! ZOMBIE! Haha. That was a very deep state. Where you lose all sense of physicalities and surrounding. Much like deep sleep, with some difference. And after being in such a deep trance usually we become very sluggish, it takes some time to get your muscle to function normally again. And by your account, your in a very deep trance state. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adept Posted March 11, 2014 Zazen is extremely difficult, go beyond the religious trappings and you find the very essence of the Dao. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted March 11, 2014 Zazen is extremely difficult, go beyond the religious trappings and you find the very essence of the Dao. I must say, Zazen is a very good exercise to help clear the crap out of one's head. And let's not forget, Lao Tzu enforces the empty head and the full belly. Exalted is right, he never did preach how. But I guess practitioners have found various ways to achieve this. I am not a Buddhist, but I will practice Zazen if it feels necessary one day. Other days, I might crash om a bean bag and play a computer game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SonOfTheGods Posted March 11, 2014 correctly practiced meditation adheres to the principles of the Dao. Define: "Correct" "Meditation" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
