TheExaltedRonin Posted March 9, 2014 Focused purely on breath? Inward examination? Awareness? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NotVoid Posted March 9, 2014 TheExaltedRonin wrote: "According to Lao Tzu and Zhuangzi what should be our train of thought All the time?" In my view, the only way to know for certain would be to ask them. All I can say about this with any degree of certainty is that with each passing day I understand the tao te ching less and less. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted March 9, 2014 Focused purely on breath? Inward examination? Awareness? None of the above. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 9, 2014 No trains. There weren't trains back then. No thoughts. Be natural. Live spontaneously according to your own nature. No thoughts. Oh, sorry, I already mentioned that. Let thoughts come and go like the Spring rains. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted March 10, 2014 No trains. There weren't trains back then. No thoughts. Be natural. Live spontaneously according to your own nature. No thoughts. Oh, sorry, I already mentioned that. Let thoughts come and go like the Spring rains. Still makes me wonder though, what if "natural" for someone is to commit evil deeds? So let it be? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 10, 2014 Still makes me wonder though, what if "natural" for someone is to commit evil deeds? So let it be? That is an unresolvable question that has been argued over and over again. I suggest that a person's desire to do evil is not "natural" but rather learned. My position is that, No!, we should not let it be. We should prevent evil if it is within our power to do so. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted March 10, 2014 That is an unresolvable question that has been argued over and over again. I suggest that a person's desire to do evil is not "natural" but rather learned. My position is that, No!, we should not let it be. We should prevent evil if it is within our power to do so. I should rephrase actually. I mean, evil will always existed. No yin without yang and all that. So yes, perhaps learned, but also inherited due to social surroundings. Then there is the good, that naturally will always fight the evil (like yourself!) Again, something learned... So maybe not let it be, but accept our roles in life... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted March 10, 2014 Again, Wu Wei is do nothing to harm others. Wu Wei has no intention. One has an intention to harm others is not natural. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 10, 2014 I should rephrase actually. I mean, evil will always existed. No yin without yang and all that. So yes, perhaps learned, but also inherited due to social surroundings. Yes, our dualistic thinking will dictate that this is true. We, humans, determine between good and evil. Exclusive of Earth and its life forms, the universe does not make these determinations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted March 10, 2014 Again, Wu Wei is do nothing to harm others. Wu Wei has no intention. One has an intention to harm others is not natural. Then if that is the case, surely one who has intention to do good is not natural either... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted March 10, 2014 Yes, our dualistic thinking will dictate that this is true. We, humans, determine between good and evil. Exclusive of Earth and its life forms, the universe does not make these determinations. I think I'm with you... i.e The person that grows up in a violent environment and choses to exit the situation... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted March 10, 2014 In addition then, surely this means that "balance" , yin and yang, represents a harmony NOT inclusive of any evil. Otherwise, one with perfect balance, or enlightened would be 50% evil, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 10, 2014 In addition then, surely this means that "balance" , yin and yang, represents a harmony NOT inclusive of any evil. Otherwise, one with perfect balance, or enlightened would be 50% evil, right? Damn! The is one hellova question. Let's see how well I respond. I don't, too often, speak of balance; I speak of harmony. This is to both within ourself and us with the rest of the universe. Regretfully, there will be evil in the world. It's just the way it is and there is no value in trying to figure out why. But yes, if we are to have peace and contentment there needs be harmony of yin and yang in our inner essence as well as our interactions with our external universe. The polarities of yin and yang will normally neutralize, harmonize conditions within as well as without. Too much yang? Add some yin. However, I think that there are times when (directly speaking of evil acts by others) if there is too much yang and this is causing evil acts by others, trying to harmonize the forces with yin is not going to work. It is my opinion that when these conditions exist yang must be used to counteract yang. In other words, force against force. Yes, I know, this is counter to the teachings of many. But I have found that it works better than allowing oneself to be abused. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted March 10, 2014 Damn! The is one hellova question. Let's see how well I respond. I don't, too often, speak of balance; I speak of harmony. This is to both within ourself and us with the rest of the universe. Regretfully, there will be evil in the world. It's just the way it is and there is no value in trying to figure out why. But yes, if we are to have peace and contentment there needs be harmony of yin and yang in our inner essence as well as our interactions with our external universe. The polarities of yin and yang will normally neutralize, harmonize conditions within as well as without. Too much yang? Add some yin. However, I think that there are times when (directly speaking of evil acts by others) if there is too much yang and this is causing evil acts by others, trying to harmonize the forces with yin is not going to work. It is my opinion that when these conditions exist yang must be used to counteract yang. In other words, force against force. Yes, I know, this is counter to the teachings of many. But I have found that it works better than allowing oneself to be abused. Fabulous! You did well...especially the first half. Interestingly, I don't want to believe your last paragraph but I somewhat do. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 10, 2014 Interestingly, I don't want to believe your last paragraph but I somewhat do. I know. We each must find our own understanding of this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted March 10, 2014 Then if that is the case, surely one who has intention to do good is not natural either... That is true. So, one should have no intention to do anything good or evil. However, doing something good cause no harm and can be ignored. In the other hand, something evil cannot be ignored because it violates the principle of Wu Wei. Wu Wei is more concerned with the negative part than the positive. Do you see the logic behind this.....??? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted March 10, 2014 That is true. So, one should have no intention to do anything good or evil. However, doing something good cause no harm and can be ignored. In the other hand, something evil cannot be ignored because it violates the principle of Wu Wei. Wu Wei is more concerned with the negative part than the positive. Do you see the logic behind this.....??? I do...was it Lao Tzu that said that when having the Tao, you will be like a new born baby? Assuming that all new borns are innocent and one with the Tao. No intention...just experiencing... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted March 10, 2014 Also, how do we then define good? Now that is a debate that can go on forever, and I always go around in circles with it. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted March 10, 2014 Also, how do we then define good? Now that is a debate that can go on forever, and I always go around in circles with it. No, there is no need to define "good". It would be understood as in Chapter 2. If one recognize good is good, then, there is evil. When there is evil, there is good. One is just the complement of the other. Again, Lao Zi was only concerned with the negative aspect to reflect the positive. Unfortunately, if we don't know what "good" is and there was a need to define it, then, I am speechless. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 10, 2014 Rarely have you been speechless ChiDragon. And who is the one who has gone beyond good and evil? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheExaltedRonin Posted March 10, 2014 @marblehead No one and everyone. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) ' Edited January 21, 2016 by Stosh 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted March 11, 2014 CD & Stosh...thank you. After a sleep, that was very clear. If I forget this lesson and ask the same question again, please slap me and refer me back to this thread, Ok? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TzaJones Posted January 7, 2016 Live like your dog or an infant no past no future No right no wrong Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 7, 2016 Live like your dog or an infant no past no future No right no wrong That is lovely but so difficult to achieve. Chuang Tzu did speak to this when he spoke about a mother tiger loving her cubs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
