A random thought about spirituality from a shaman

[skydog]

I was in the taxi of a guy who used to be a heavy drug addict

 

and got helped by a shaman

 

and it hit me an epiphany

 

many people have this idea that spirituality is about becoming more feminine, being perfect and never making any mistakes or being super useful or having no desires

 

 

what if the opposite is true

 

what if spirituality is about becoming a fucking warrior

 

what if its about becoming more imperfect and embracing that imperfection and ones crazy nature, the crazy intelligence of the universe.

 

What if its about becoming super lazy

 

or having an unbending will

 

a story the guy was telling me was like the guy was talking to the shaman and the shaman was saying how a man is nothing without willpower and one has to develop extraordinary willpower.

 

or how the guy was scared of getting into a fight, so the shaman told him that hes scared of death and hes a pussy and real men arent scared of death, and next time someone offers you to fight, you fight, even if you get killed..

 

so my point is that many people have these misconceptions or in my opinion misconceptions of what spirituality is about.. and try to be something there not

 

Im sure many people will misunderstand this post and attack me because they have problems with masculinity or have childhood father issues or something

 

the shaman also told him that shamans change their future to make their destiny more pleasant, some people think this idea is wrong..and to some extent I agree with them but not fully.

Edited March 10, 2014 by skydog

[thelerner]

The shaman may be right in that case, but different people need different things. Often we're out of balance and need to get in touch with the element we lack.

 

I can see how a drug user could be way too yin and need strong stiff direction. Yet fiery Westerners are attracted to yang but need yin, the feminine.

[TheExaltedRonin]

You literally fascinate me lol.

 

You need a lot more time friend. First you need to change the world, then your busy being a lion, and now:

 

"many people have this idea that spirituality is about becoming more feminine"

 

That.

 

I have never heard of that.

 

And all these complaints of criticism towards you is also interesting. I simply don't understand why you post on a forum and disagree with any insight and or criticism towards you.

 

And if anyone does criticize you its because we have "father issues". I mean, I haven't found much more entertainment anywhere else.

 

In the terms of the internet, I firmly believe you are a troll.

 

I appreciate the actual insight and outward thinking you provide but some of your posts are so contradictory to your true message its nearly impossible to read.

 

But in your own words from another thread,

 

"I'm ignorant".

[skydog]

You literally fascinate me lol.

 

You need a lot more time friend. First you need to change the world, then your busy being a lion, and now:

 

"many people have this idea that spirituality is about becoming more feminine"

 

That.

 

I have never heard of that.

 

And all these complaints of criticism towards you is also interesting. I simply don't understand why you post on a forum and disagree with any insight and or criticism towards you.

 

And if anyone does criticize you its because we have "father issues". I mean, I haven't found much more entertainment anywhere else.

 

In the terms of the internet, I firmly believe you are a troll.

 

I appreciate the actual insight and outward thinking you provide but some of your posts are so contradictory to your true message its nearly impossible to read.

 

But in your own words from another thread,

 

"I'm ignorant".

 

What is your fascination with me?

 

I say your ignorant because you make critiscms of me that have no basis in reality

 

Actually I have made a lot of posts here, where people like you just but in and make unfounded critiscms of the ideas involved

 

I can disagree with something if I disagree with it

 

If someone posts something good, people will agree but when everyone disagrees and tells you something or tries to teach you something its just annoying

 

Like you, trying to teach me something

 

Yes I connect to animals, I have knowledge of animal spirits, I have knowledge of hours a day of qigong, many people have little knowledge read a few taoist books and think they know everything

 

well actually i wrote some very masculine poems with true honesty and people insult me and tell me I have problems

 

Yes, I read people and people act like spirituality is all about being perfect and never getting angry or having emotions

 

I do not think you believe im a troll, i personally just think you dislike me

[TheExaltedRonin]

Name one thing I've tried to teach you.

 

Skydog said:

Like you, trying to teach me something

[Rara]

Yup. I'm feel most liberated when I let my crazy side open up. Especially when I glove up, spar and exchange multiple blows to the head with a partner!

[Rara]

The shaman may be right in that case, but different people need different things. Often we're out of balance and need to get in touch with the element we lack.

 

I can see how a drug user could be way too yin and need strong stiff direction. Yet fiery Westerners are attracted to yang but need yin, the feminine.

You see, I'm very yang! I smoke pot to chill myself. But also meditate and do Kung Fu...gradually getting a good balance. Works for me but agreed, I could see how this wouldn't work for every one!

[Rara]

You literally fascinate me lol.

 

You need a lot more time friend. First you need to change the world, then your busy being a lion, and now:

 

"many people have this idea that spirituality is about becoming more feminine"

 

That.

 

I have never heard of that.

 

And all these complaints of criticism towards you is also interesting. I simply don't understand why you post on a forum and disagree with any insight and or criticism towards you.

 

And if anyone does criticize you its because we have "father issues". I mean, I haven't found much more entertainment anywhere else.

 

In the terms of the internet, I firmly believe you are a troll.

 

I appreciate the actual insight and outward thinking you provide but some of your posts are so contradictory to your true message its nearly impossible to read.

 

But in your own words from another thread,

 

"I'm ignorant".

But he's here to learn...and this is just the way he is...

[Marblehead]

To the best of my knowledge there is no place within Taoist Philosophy where it states that we should be more or less this or that. It does state that we should be true to our own nature.

 

In the Heavens there are big stars and there are small stars. Each is being what it naturally is. Why not we?

[zanshin]

I have an old martial arts instructor who used to tell us stories about a minor local celebrity he used to work for. This guy had a nice guy public persona, but could actually be a horrid egomaniac jerk. So this celebrity would rant and scream and demand, my instructor would be trying hard not to laugh. He was ex-military special forces with multiple martial arts and practical combat experience; it secretly amused him when this dude would try to bully him. It is a different thing to choose to be calm and peaceful rather than doing it because of fear or intimidation. Like the know the male but keep to the female quote from TTC, or peace through strength.

[BaguaKicksAss]

People telling others what spirituality is or is not (such as feminine) LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Rara]

People telling others what spirituality is or is not (such as feminine) LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Well, it was a "what if" rather than an "it is". But to the OP, "it is"...so it is his way. Maybe not yours...

[Rara]

To clarify also, by feminine we aren't refering to gender in a sex context, but on the context of polarity...

[thelerner]

You see, I'm very yang! I smoke pot to chill myself. But also meditate and do Kung Fu...gradually getting a good balance. Works for me but agreed, I could see how this wouldn't work for every one!

My comment was intended to be general. Not to make hard and fast rules from what a shaman tells to one person. Though seems like I meandered .

 

Though my comment on how a well rounded fighter needs the feminine comes from Glen Morris who noticed the top spiritual martial artists tended to become more androgynous.

[soaring crane]

One of Robber Chih's followers once asked Chih, "Does the thief too have a Way?"

 

Chih replied, "How could he get anywhere if he didn't have a Way? Making shrewd guesses as to how much booty is stashed away in the room is sageliness; being the first one in is bravery; being the last one out is righteousness; knowing whether the job can be pulled off or not is wisdom; dividing up the loot fairly is benevolence. No one in the world ever succeeded in becoming a great thief if he didn't have all five!"

 

http://terebess.hu/english/chuangtzu1.html

 

 

Be yourself, yes.

[Cheshire Cat]

The dao of the shamans is not the Dao of the immortals.

 

In Cheng there was a shaman of the gods named Chi Hsien. He could tell whether men would live or die, survive or perish, be fortunate or unfortunate, live a long time or die young, and he would predict the year, month, week,8 and day as though he were a god himself. When the people of Cheng saw him, they dropped everything and ran out of his way. Lieh Tzu went to see him and was completely intoxicated.

Returning, he said to Hu Tzu, "I used to think, Master, that your Way was perfect. But now I see there is something even higher!"

Hu Tzu said, "I have already showed you all the outward forms, but I haven't yet showed you the substance-and do you really think you have mastered this Way of mine? There may be a flock of hens but, if there is no rooster, how can they lay fertile eggs? You take what you know of the Way and wave it in the face of the world, expecting to be believed! This is the reason men can see right through you. Try bringing your shaman along next time and letting him get a look at me."

The next day Lieh Tzu brought the shaman to see Hu Tzu. When they had left the room, the shaman said, "I'm so sorry - your master is dying! There's no life left in him - he won't last the week. I saw something very strange-something like wet ashes!"

Lieh Tzu went back into the room, weeping and drenching the collar of his robe with tears, and reported this to Hu. Tzu.

Hu Tzu said, "Just now I appeared to him with the Pattern of Earth - still and silent, nothing moving, nothing standing up. He probably saw in me the Workings of Virtue Closed Off.10 Try bringing him around again."

The next day the two came to see Hu Tzu again, and when they had left the room, the shaman said to Lieh Tzu, "It certainly was lucky that your master met me! He's going to get better - he has all the signs of life! I could see the stirring of what had been closed off!"

Lieh Tzu went in and reported this to Hu Tzu.

Hu Tzu said, "Just now I appeared to him as Heaven and Earth - no name or substance to it, but still the workings, coming up from the heels. He probably saw in me the Workings of the Good One.11 Try bringing him again."

The next day the two came to see Hu Tzu again, and when they had left the room, the shaman said to Lieh Tzu, "Your master is never the same! I have no way to physiognomize him! If he will try to steady himself, then I will come and examine him again."

Lieh Tzu went in and reported this to Hu Tzu.

Hu Tzu said, "Just now I appeared to him as the Great Vastness Where Nothing Wins Out. He probably saw in me the Workings of the Balanced Breaths. Where the swirling waves12 gather there is an abyss; where the still waters gather there is an abyss; where the running waters gather there is an abyss. The abyss has nine names and I have shown him three.13 Try bringing him again."

The next day the two came to see Hu Tzu again, but before the shaman had even come to a halt before Hu Tzu, his wits left him and he fled.

"Run after him!" said Hu Tzu, but though Lieh Tzu ran after him, he could not catch up. Returning, he reported to Hu Tzu, "He's vanished! He's disappeared! I couldn't catch up with him."

Hu Tzu said, "Just now I appeared to him as Not Yet Emerged from My Source. I came at him empty, wriggling and turning, not knowing anything about `who' or `what,' now dipping and bending, now flowing in waves - that's why he ran away."

After this, Lieh Tzu concluded that he had never really begun to learn anything.14 He went home and for three years did not go out. He replaced his wife at the stove, fed the pigs as though he were feeding people, and showed no preferences in the things he did. He got rid of the carving and polishing and returned to plainness, letting his body stand alone like a clod. In the midst of entanglement he remained sealed, and in this oneness he ended his life.

Edited March 10, 2014 by DAO rain TAO

[doc benway]

I was in the taxi of a guy who used to be a heavy drug addict

 

and got helped by a shaman

 

and it hit me an epiphany

 

many people have this idea that spirituality is about becoming more feminine, being perfect and never making any mistakes or being super useful or having no desires

 

 

what if the opposite is true

 

what if spirituality is about becoming a fucking warrior

 

what if its about becoming more imperfect and embracing that imperfection and ones crazy nature, the crazy intelligence of the universe.

 

What if its about becoming super lazy

 

or having an unbending will

 

a story the guy was telling me was like the guy was talking to the shaman and the shaman was saying how a man is nothing without willpower and one has to develop extraordinary willpower.

 

or how the guy was scared of getting into a fight, so the shaman told him that hes scared of death and hes a pussy and real men arent scared of death, and next time someone offers you to fight, you fight, even if you get killed..

 

so my point is that many people have these misconceptions or in my opinion misconceptions of what spirituality is about.. and try to be something there not

 

Im sure many people will misunderstand this post and attack me because they have problems with masculinity or have childhood father issues or something

 

the shaman also told him that shamans change their future to make their destiny more pleasant, some people think this idea is wrong..and to some extent I agree with them but not fully.

 

Check out the history of Trungpa Rinpoche and his crazy wisdom.

Spirituality to me is about looking inside (and outside) and figuring out who and what I am and honoring and expressing that to the fullest extent that I am able.

And I also think spirituality is different for all of us and changes as we do...

Do what you gotta do as long as you are respectful of the right of others to do the same.

[Rara]

My comment was intended to be general. Not to make hard and fast rules from what a shaman tells to one person. Though seems like I meandered .

 

Though my comment on how a well rounded fighter needs the feminine comes from Glen Morris who noticed the top spiritual martial artists tended to become more androgynous.

Yep...I thought I was supporting what you said...

[skydog]

yes, I wish to remain respectful of everyones inner nature and wish to work with and express their inner nature in their own way, so if this masculinity thread is bad for you so be it, im just expressing my feelings that at the moment i dont wish to work or idealise femininity to a disporportionate or imbalanced degree for my current path..and perhaps i misunderstand people intention or subtle intention or view things people have said as a subtle attack when it wasnt...and for that i apologise and wish well if that was the case and wish you well

 

at the moment i am in a phase of building jing, yang etc, i had to wait for a bus the oter day and did 4 hours of hard qigong (spontaneous movements happens by itself) in the early morning this kind of things builds tremendous yang....so erm yeh..anyways..this is my point

Edited March 10, 2014 by skydog

[Rara]

yes, I wish to remain respectful of everyones inner nature and wish to work with and express their inner nature in their own way, so if this masculinity thread is bad for you so be it, im just expressing my feelings that at the moment i dont wish to work or idealise femininity to a disporportionate or imbalanced degree for my current path..and perhaps i misunderstand people intention or subtle intention or view things people have said as a subtle attack when it wasnt...and for that i apologise and wish well if that was the case and wish you well

 

at the moment i am in a phase of building jing, yang etc, i had to wait for a bus the oter day and did 4 hours of hard qigong (spontaneous movements happens by itself) in the early morning this kind of things builds tremendous yang....so erm yeh..anyways..this is my point

Do you feel that you have too much yin, then? Or feminine qualities? Hence your desire to cultivate yang...

 

I also feel that we can cultivate too much. As I meditate to cool myself down, in a period where I was doing too much, I lost all assertiveness. It was sorta bad business and combat!

[skydog]

Do you feel that you have too much yin, then? Or feminine qualities? Hence your desire to cultivate yang...

 

I also feel that we can cultivate too much. As I meditate to cool myself down, in a period where I was doing too much, I lost all assertiveness. It was sorta bad business and combat!

 

 

I dont know, i dont think so, i needed a lot of yang for my last 3 months in mexico, but i feel i have disproportionate shen compared to jing, i have had problems with libido in the past still kinda do and used to be way too sensitive that id walk into a room and get a headache or be too affected by other peoples emotions (at least in my own mind) and would also feel a little bit of a lack of energy and maybe not feel like i belong in the worl grounded etc, but recently all these things have really changed i kind of forgot about half of these things however due to my intuition and maybe the cylce of astrology for my star signs i feel the next year is also going to be very introspective and work on myself kinda of thing, and i feel i am maybe half way to being able to heal people if I want to or on that level and it might take a year or a year and a half more, and if i do i dont want to be imbalanced with jing, i want to have ridiculous amounts of jing, also i was eating meat for the last 3 months which helped my jing, but am considering purifying my diet so will build my jing through other ways such as hard qigong, being connected to earth all day eg grounding wire when i sleep or iron crotch qigong and connecting to elements in nature and animals through art..

 

well your right but i dont feel like i actually cultivate like in a forceful way

 

like i have the energy i need to work with intuitively in certain ways and it just sort of happens, not that I want to start doing it in the wrong places like if i dont want to do spontaneous movements where my hands are doing a lot of projecting energy because i look too weird etc intuitively the movements become more subtle

 

 

my main practice is spontaneous movements, intuitive qigong and it just happens by itself like say i lie down for 5 minutes i feel the energy and the heard qigong happens by itself or if i sit on a rock on the sand i start moving...

 

i see, what you mean

Edited March 10, 2014 by skydog

[skydog]

actually i like zanshins post very much

 

like kindness and peace can definately come from great strength..

[marcus2013]

Well lately I am experiencing what you describe as being so much affected by others emotions. I get easily "sick" if the energy of the person or place is in a big disharmony with mine. Yes quite annoying!! It happens also with my own friends, not only with strangers.

[Rara]

 

 

I dont know, i dont think so, i needed a lot of yang for my last 3 months in mexico, but i feel i have disproportionate shen compared to jing, i have had problems with libido in the past still kinda do and used to be way too sensitive that id walk into a room and get a headache or be too affected by other peoples emotions (at least in my own mind) and would also feel a little bit of a lack of energy and maybe not feel like i belong in the worl grounded etc, but recently all these things have really changed i kind of forgot about half of these things however due to my intuition and maybe the cylce of astrology for my star signs i feel the next year is also going to be very introspective and work on myself kinda of thing, and i feel i am maybe half way to being able to heal people if I want to or on that level and it might take a year or a year and a half more, and if i do i dont want to be imbalanced with jing, i want to have ridiculous amounts of jing, also i was eating meat for the last 3 months which helped my jing, but am considering purifying my diet so will build my jing through other ways such as hard qigong, being connected to earth all day eg grounding wire when i sleep or iron crotch qigong and connecting to elements in nature and animals through art..

 

well your right but i dont feel like i actually cultivate like in a forceful way

 

like i have the energy i need to work with intuitively in certain ways and it just sort of happens, not that I want to start doing it in the wrong places like if i dont want to do spontaneous movements where my hands are doing a lot of projecting energy because i look too weird etc intuitively the movements become more subtle

 

 

my main practice is spontaneous movements, intuitive qigong and it just happens by itself like say i lie down for 5 minutes i feel the energy and the heard qigong happens by itself or if i sit on a rock on the sand i start moving...

 

i see, what you mean

Sure As long as you don't overthink it and you do things gradually to reach a more balanced state, then you will be fine.

 

Intuition especially is powerful thing.

[idiot_stimpy]

The balance point is not to the left or the right, it's in the centre.