What is the most popular definition of "oneness" in taoism?

[TheExaltedRonin]

...

[Brian]

Most popular?

[Taomeow]

"Tao gives birth to One" -- Laozi

 

I don't know how popular it is but it is the one most widely known.

 

This one line is sapienti sat to conclude that taoism views "oneness" as a derivative. Tao is not one nor not-one, tao is the mother of all things, including oneness. Tao includes being and nonbeing, oneness and not-oneness, and so on.

 

Indo-European indoctrination often entraps folks into equating tao with this or that kind of oneness they are already at home with -- one true god, one awareness, one mind, whatever they think calls all the ultimate shots. But the moment someone says "something gives birth to oneness," some taoists become acutely interested in that "something" -- much more than in that "oneness" which is merely one wayward son of hers.

[TheExaltedRonin]

So in a broad sense it means no duality?

[ChiDragon]

Tao is One.

Tao is singular.

 

One engenders Two.

Two is Yin/Yang which is duality.

Edited March 11, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Taomeow]

So in a broad sense it means no duality?

Not really, because the next line is, "One gives birth to Two," which makes "duality" tao's beloved grandchild, while "one" is her child. It's all in the family. "No duality" is a state that always gives birth to duality, and vice versa. "To and fro goes the Way."

 

Taoist-proper cultivators do not seek nonduality as a destination, they seek freedom to choose. It's like going or not going across the border of one really and truly free country (your dual, taiji, yin-yang self in harmony with tao) to another (your non-dual, wuji self in harmony with tao). You may go on a vacation, you may emigrate permanently, you may repatriate if you have changed your mind... you decide. That's what tao is about. Not oneness and not not-oneness, not duality and not "no duality." It is about freedom though of course it does not "equal" freedom. It does not equal anything but herself, and patterns herself on herself, not on oneness and not on nonduality (neither of which is equal to the whole enchilada.)

[ChiDragon]

Chapter 39 Tao is Unity or One.
1. Since those who gained Unity:
2. Heaven gained Unity became clear;
3. Earth gained Unity became peaceful;
4. God gained Unity became miraculous;
5. Valley gained Unity became full;
6. All things gained Unity became alive;
7. Rulers gained Unity made world peace.

[NotVoid]

Oneness can mean to collect all of one's similar thoughts and questions into one single thread, rather than to express them all in many different threads. This is only one possible meaning of oneness however.

[Stosh]

Muddy water gained unity , settled out , and lost unity again.

[Marblehead]

Muddy water gained unity , settled out , and lost unity again.

That's because someone keeps shaking the bottle.

[Stosh]

That's because someone keeps shaking the bottle.

Well ,..... Ill agree the bottle is continually shaken.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

The concept of non-duality predates Chinese Buddhism in Taoism via Heshang Gong's commentary on the Tao Te Ching. Heshang Gong lived circa 200 BCE.

 

Here is my translation of his commentary on Chapter One, which, you will see, has much to say about non-duality, and a variety of ideas regarding Oneness. I am of the opinion that Oneness is inextricable with De/Divine Virtue, but I have yet to convince too many people of that.

 

(The words in brackets are mine, added for clarification or to show potential insinuation in the text. Insinuation is a common tool in ancient Chinese literature to give more meaning to those who have done their homework )

 

 

 

 

Chapter One: Form of the Dao 體道

 

 

道可道，謂經術政教之道也。

“The path that can be spoken of”

 

This is referring to classic texts about the Dao of the art of government.

 

非常道。非自然生長之道也。常道當以無為養神，無事安民，含光藏暉，滅跡匿端，不可稱道

“Is not the enduring path”

 

It is not the way of true nature and long life. The Enduring Dao resembles the non-interference which supports shen/spirit, and the absence of duties which allows the people to be tranquil and peaceful. Savouring Light, and concealing radiance, eliminating the chase, and putting away extremes, (one) cannot give a name to Dao.

 

名可名，謂富貴尊榮，高世之名也。

“The name that can be named”

 

Refers to the most majestic, dignified, and revered, name (that can be thought of or given)

 

非常名。非自然常在之名也。常名當如嬰兒之未言，雞子之未分，明珠在蚌中，美玉處石間，內雖昭昭，外如愚頑。

“is not the enduring name,”

 

Is not the true nature of the enduring existence of the name. The enduring name is like the baby who has not yet spoken, like baby chicks not yet hatched, like a brilliant jewel in the oyster’s center, beautiful jade that remains within a rock. Though, internally, it is abundantly luminous, externally, it is as though foolish and stubborn.

 

無名，天地之始。無名者謂道，道無形，故不可名也。始者道本也，吐氣布化，出於虛無，為天地本始也。

“From that which is without name, Heaven and Earth began”

 

That which is without name, here, means “The Dao.” The Dao is without form. This is why it cannot be named. In the beginning, there was the root of the Dao, sending forth chi/energy and proliferating the changes in form. The arising of existence (comes from) emptiness and non-existence. The creation of Heaven and Earth has it's roots in this beginning.

 

有名，萬物之母。有名謂天地。天地有形位、有陰陽、有柔剛，是其有名也。萬物母者，天地含氣生萬物，長大成熟，如母之養子也。

“With name(/appearance), the myriad things are born”

 

“With (existing) name” refers to Heaven and Earth. Heaven and Earth are the seat of form. There exists yin and yang, there exists soft and firm, thus there exists Name. The ten thousand things have this as their mother, Heaven and Earth cherish chi and give birth to the ten thousand things. Lasting great completion is ripened, like a mother raises her son.

 

故常無欲，以觀其妙；妙，要也。人常能無欲，則可以觀道之要，要謂一也。一出布名道，讚敘明是非。

“Always without desire, thereby, observing Miao/mysterious”

 

Miao is the essential principle. Men are enduring, effective, and talented (when) without desire. This is the way by which one can observe Dao's Essential Principle. “Essential Principle” means Oneness. Oneness births the proliferation of names, and Dao, praising and making clearly known (the differences between) right and wrong.

 

常有欲，以觀其徼。徼，歸也。常有欲之人，可以觀世俗之所歸趣也。

“Always with desire, thus, observing the surface.”

 

The surface is the reverse. The enduring existence of men’s desires enables the observance of worldly customs and reverses one’s attention.

 

此兩者，同出而異名，兩者，謂有欲無欲也。同出者，同出人心也。而異名者，所名各異也。名無欲者長存，名有欲者亡身也。

[two different ways to read the next line, both meaning essentially the same thing: “These two come from the same source but have different names,” or]

 

“This way they are two (attention is divided, and/or, there is separation). The similarities are abandoned and different names cause two (ie., lack of attention on Oneness, and on unity, and causing mental differentiations rather than seeing that all things are united in Dao).”

 

The meaning of this is that both, having desires, and not having desires, come from the same source, and that same source is the heart-mind in people. “Different names,” here, refers to everything being named (and categorized) differently. Categories which exist without attachment and desires will long exist (not being attached to categories brings longevity). Categories created due to attachments and desires bring death to the body.

 

同謂之玄，玄，天也。言有欲之人與無欲之人，同受氣於天也。玄之又玄，天中復有天也。稟氣有厚薄，得中和滋液，則生賢聖，得錯亂污辱，則生貪淫也。

“Similarly in speaking of Xuan, the profound depth”

 

Xuan/profound depth (refers to) Sky/Heaven. Words exist with human desires. Following the absence of human desires is similar to the receiving of chi/energy/mist in the Sky/Heaven.

 

玄之又玄，天中復有天也。稟氣有厚薄，得中和滋液，則生賢聖，得錯亂污辱，則生貪淫也。

“Depth of increasing depth”

 

Heaven balances and returns substance to Heaven. In chi there is thick and thin. Obtaining balance and harmony, liquid is multiplied. The reason and rule of life is virtuousness (xian) and wisdom. With error there is chaos, impurity, and abuse. (With) life there is greed and obscenity.

 

眾妙之門。能之天中復有天，稟氣有厚薄，除情去欲守中和，是謂知道要之門戶也。

“The door to many mysteries/Miao”,

 

The talent of Heaven is to balance, and return repeatedly, substance to Heaven, allowing chi/energy/mist to be thick and thin. Eliminate sentiment, banish desire, conserve balance and harmony. This is correctly called "the open door of knowing the Dao's Essential Principle."

[idiot_stimpy]

You have been searching for nothing all along.

[Taomeow]

Here is my translation of his commentary on Chapter One, which, you will see, has much to say about non-duality, and a variety of ideas regarding Oneness. I am of the opinion that Oneness is inextricable with De/Divine Virtue, but I have yet to convince too many people of that.

 

I noticed years ago (Wade-Giles times) that "Te" can be found in "inTEgrity."

[liminal_luke]

My understanding...

 

Always there are three: yin, yang, and the deeper level that lies betwixt and between. Perhaps this is no exception. Duality, non-duality and the deeper level betwixt and between.

 

Liminal

[ChiDragon]

I noticed years ago (Wade-Giles times) that "Te" can be found in "inTEgrity."

Do you think any English word that has TE is relevant to character Te(德).

[Taomeow]

Do you think any English word that has TE is relevant to character Te(德).

 

Are you trying to chi_DRAG_ON a pun?

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I noticed years ago (Wade-Giles times) that "Te" can be found in "inTEgrity."

 

I made a comment a while ago, when considering possibilities between "notions of God" (not necessarily "God" but the notions that are ascribed therewith) and DE that perhaps the word we're looking for is

 

..

 

..

 

 

DE-ity?

[ChiDragon]

Are you trying to chi_DRAG_ON a pun?

 

I was trying to follow your logic from pinyin of a character to the letters of an English word which has no direct relationship. I am trying to figure out how did you arrive to that conclusion.

[Taomeow]

I was trying to follow your logic from pinyin of a character to the letters of an English word which has no direct relationship. I am trying to figure out how did you arrive to that conclusion.

 

This logic is called "a pun." Comprehension of puns requires proficiency in the language in which they are executed. This may (as in my example of "Te in inTEgrity") include proficiency in this language's rules of engagement with other languages when phonetically, grammatically, semantically, etc., transporting their original notions. There's a whole bunch of linguistic terms applied to this process of one language acquiring words of another into its own circulation, different for different types of such acquisitions.

 

E.g., the original spelling of my name is Таомяу, while Taomeow is a Romanization following standard rules of rendering Cyrillic words readable to English speakers. Once it has been Romanized, a foreign word can then be used by all English speakers in accordance with the rules of the English grammar, lexicology, semantics, stylistics, phonetics and so on. E.g., these rules allow them to make a verb out of it following standard English grammatical protocols existing for the purpose -- as in, "she taomeowed her dissent;" or an adjective should it please them -- "that was a taomeowy post;" and so on. No limits on creative applications provided certain rules and patterns are followed that would make these creative applications recognizable and comprehensible to native or proficient speakers of English.

 

With this in mind (and with my reference to Wade-Giles as an aside), go back to my pun and give it another try.

[Taomeow]

I made a comment a while ago, when considering possibilities between "notions of God" (not necessarily "God" but the notions that are ascribed therewith) and DE that perhaps the word we're looking for is

 

..

 

..

 

 

DE-ity?

 

Maybe. But there's so many deities in taoism... one would have to be prepared to have the answer to "WHICH DE-ity?" -- are you?

While "inTEgrity" seems to express what De/Te is all about... It is a "virtue," but not something that can be separated from the bearer of this virtue, you can't "have" integrity without "being" unified onto yourself, equal to yourself, rather than to any part of yourself. And that's tao. That's the only thing that has complete inTEgirty. So I tend to agree with your equating te/de and unity in taoism.

[Stosh]

Related to INTEGRITY

• Synonyms
• character, decency, goodness, honesty, morality, probity, rectitude, righteousness, rightness, uprightness, virtue, virtuousness
• Antonyms
• badness, evil, evildoing, immorality, iniquity, sin, villainy, wickedness

• Related Words
• high-mindedness, honor, incorruptibility, irreproachability, irreproachableness, right-mindedness, scrupulosity, scrupulousness; appropriateness, correctness, decorousness, decorum, etiquette, fitness, propriety, seemliness; ethics, morals
• Near Antonyms
• impropriety, indecency, indecorum, indiscretion; debauchery, degeneracy, degradation, depravity, perversion, pervertedness, sinfulness; crookedness, dishonesty, underhandedness, unscrupulousness; lowness, meanness, viciousness, vileness; corruption

These things are all fabrications of a human egoic-mind , they depend upon a dualistic view of the world., and so therefore I dont see them as appropriate associations ( either in a positive or inversely so manner ) to the theme of Tao.

 

The abstraction of good brings its attendant logical inverse ,,evil ,, such dualism is denounced by the philosophy.

 

You also cant spell hate without t and e , ,or destroy without d and e , and t e and d arent chinese characters ...

so associating those terms with characteristics of Taoist thought may be witty and fun ,, but really constitutes a bogus logical process.

IMO

So the reader is left with a choice , smart funny pleasant and completely wrong , VS , smart dry difficult and actually correct.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Stosh

[zerostao]

Te is integrity, it is a virtue of the highest, Te is a power of the highest.

Te is sincerity, highest sincerity,

probably a coincidence that sincerity contains t and e. contains sin too, haha

Te is also authentic, there is that t and e again,,

 

"So the reader is left with a choice , smart funny pleasant and completely wrong , VS , smart dry difficult and actually correct."

I am glad I don't limit myself to such a narrow choice. (even if they are both 'smart' choices)

I never claimed to be smart, I will opt for another choice>>subjectivity (in nature)

[Stosh]

Te is integrity, it is a virtue of the highest, Te is a power of the highest.

Te is sincerity, highest sincerity,

probably a coincidence that sincerity contains t and e. contains sin too, haha

Te is also authentic, there is that t and e again,,

 

"So the reader is left with a choice , smart funny pleasant and completely wrong , VS , smart dry difficult and actually correct."

I am glad I don't limit myself to such a narrow choice. (even if they are both 'smart' choices)

I never claimed to be smart, I will opt for another choice>>subjectivity (in nature)

More proof of the pudding my pleasant man, smart funny pleasant wrong.

[ChiDragon]

I was trying to follow your logic from pinyin of a character to the letters of an English word which has no direct relationship. I am trying to figure out how did you arrive to that conclusion.

 

 

You also cant spell hate without t and e , ,or destroy without d and e , and t e and d arent chinese characters ...

 

That was what I am trying to say earlier; and you took the words right out of my mouth.

Edited March 14, 2014 by ChiDragon