What do You consider moderate sexual activity?

[Upfromtheashes]

Well after reading the article on semen retention I realized what a lot of my problems have been caused by and I am going to take a stab at moderating my sexual activity

I realize it is different for everyone what what would some consider moderate sexual activity?

I mean for some one orgasm per day would be moderate if you routinely engaged twice a day -

Anyway Curious about opinions

Also it doesnt seem to be too healthy to abstain from ejaculation when you reach the point where you are thinking about it every few seconds and it literally take an extreme amount of will all the time to resist -

Curious about peoples experiences here -

Thanks

[Ryan McCoole]

Well after reading the article on semen retention I realized what a lot of my problems have been caused by and I am going to take a stab at moderating my sexual activity

I realize it is different for everyone what what would some consider moderate sexual activity?

I mean for some one orgasm per day would be moderate if you routinely engaged twice a day -

Anyway Curious about opinions

Also it doesnt seem to be too healthy to abstain from ejaculation when you reach the point where you are thinking about it every few seconds and it literally take an extreme amount of will all the time to resist -

Curious about peoples experiences here -

Thanks

 

yeah..for me that obsessive point hits at 6 days...doesgetting to that point really help with energy generation even if you keep it in?? After about 6 days I gotta release...is that a psychological barrier? are there other ways to mentally erase the duality I have with "release" vs. "non-release"?

 

Bums?

[Trunk]

yeah..for me that obsessive point hits at 6 days...

%70 is a moderation number that gets used a lot, and I think it's decent. Like, if you turn into a berserker at 6 days, get yourself laid at 4 or 5 days. (Tempo of cycle varies widely per individual, stage of life, misc.) That gives you time and energy develop your solo (unaroused) practices & alignment, and have nourishing desire-based activity at a tempo that is healthy for you.

 

This "reassessing of inquiry" steps you back to increasingly wider views of sexual cycle, and such wider views tend to be a lot healthier (than the very narrow one of "how long can I with-hold ejaculating?"). Looking at the larger sexual cycle also leads to better questions (often about a specific arc of cycle), and better application of qi gong. Looking at full cycle also promotes looking at lifestyle, and how the different parts of your life are working together (or not).

 

This is part of "re-framing the conversation" that is slowly taking place in this community. Better frame of reference, better ?'s arise, better inquiry.

 

btw, %70 also gets used talking about breathing practices, like (in general) don't inhale to absolutely %100 of your capacity, but do more sustained breathing practice at %70 of capacity. You'll go further, with less strain, less chance of injury.

[mbanu]

A quote from "Health Preservation and Rehabilitation" from the Shanghai University of Traditional Chinese Medicine. Basically the TCM view, (at least as I've come to understand it) with a few jumbled attempts to mesh it with Western equivalences.

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Sexual strain means exhaustion due to intemperance in sexual life.

 

Young boys and girls, when reaching adolescence, become gradually sufficient in the kidney-qi and a substance called "Tiangui (gonadotropic harmone)" develops within their bodies. Activated by this substance, they begin to experience the secretion of sperm, menstrual onset and gamomorphism.

 

At this time they possess reproductive power and thus have the desire for sexual intercourse. This is a normal physiological phenomenon and is indispensable, too, for the continuation of mankind and multiplication of nationalities.

 

"Origin and Changes of Rites", The Book of Rites said:"Both men and women on this secular world have sexual desire." Common Sayings on Gerontology also states: "Sexual desire for men and women is as natural as yin and yang exist in nature." Ge Hong once said: "Human beings cannot go without sexual life. And without sexual intercourse human beings are liable to diseases from stagnation. So those who suffer diseases from bitterness hidden in their mind due to protracted suppression of their sexual desire will experience short life. Indulgennce in sexual life will result in failure for one to enjoy longevity. Only temperance in sexual activities can keep human beings healthy in the body and the mind." (Bao Puzi's, Inner Treatise)

 

This shows that sexual life to the moderate degree plays an important role in longevity. But what is temperance? Our forefathers have accumulated rich experiences on this. Sun Simiao in the Tang Dynasty said: "The way for a man to ward off indulgence is to have sexual intercourse twice a month." "Those at their fifties have sexual intercourse once twenty days while those at sixties totally refrain from it." (Essential Prescriptions Worth a Thousand Gold for Emergencies) Liang Zhangju also stated: "In keeping fit, the most important thing is to accumulate the essence. The heart (mind) governs the body; accumulation of essence in the heart leads to mutual support between qi and blood, resulting in the physique being free from diseases. That is why gentlemen take good care of essence but are cautious in sexual activities. Strong young men have sexual intercourse once ten days; men of middle age, twice the intermission for the strong young men; men above fifty (beginning of senility), twice the intermission for men of middle age; and men above sixty, twice the intermission for men above fifty." (Tuian's Informal Essays)

 

Individuals, however, differ in sexual desire and sexual power; thus a unanimous frequency of sexual intercourse is not desirable. A Book on Helping Cultivate Essence, Qi and Vitality to Prolong Life said: "Men reaching the age of sixty ought to totally refrain from sexual intercourse. Those who are still healthy and strong however, should not suppress their sexual urge. Protracted suppression without emission will lead to carbuncles." For this reason, Xu Lingtai, a physician in the Qing dynasty, advocated "naturalness." He pointed out: "Sperm, as a living substance, is produced when sexual urge is stirred. There would be no production of sperm without heat. To be naturally free from sexual urge is beneficial, suppression brings harm and overindulgence leads to exhaustion. To have sexual intercourse naturally, without any difficulty or reluctance, is in conformity to the natural law."

 

In recent years, some people have put forward three principles to determine the frequency of sexual intercourse. a. Sexual urge is stirred up naturally and becomes so strong that sexual intercourse is the natural result; whatever reluctance or perfuctoriness is called excess. b. The whole course of sexaul [sic] intercourse is completed naturally, without any uncomfort physically or psychologically. c. Neither sleep nor mental state during the next day is affected by sexual intercourse. But temperance should be exercised in sexual life.

 

Overindulgence damages health and shortens life span. That is why ancient experts on health preservation likened overindulgence to "an axe or saw that break the bone," (Longevity and Life Preservation, by Gong Tingxian, the Ming Dynast) "a cup of poisonus wine, or an axe that cuts life." (Volume I, Miscellaneous Notes during the Guixin Years, by Zhou Mi, the Southern Song Dynasty) They suggested that "avoiding sexual life is like dodging thieves," (Records of Trivial Matters) taking temperance in sexual life as imperative for preserving health and prolonging life.

 

1) Checking Sexual Activities to Protect Essence

 

According to TCM theories, the kidney stores the reproductive essence whereas overindulgence in sexual intercourse is most likely to damage the kidney-essence.

 

"Discussion on Ways of Invasion of Pathogens and Symptoms of Viscera Diseases", Chapter 4 of Miraculous Pivot said: "Excessive sexual activities injure the kidney." That is why experts on health preservation through the ages all laid emphasis on "abstinence from indulgence in sexual activities to conserve the essence" (Elementary Medicine, by Li Chan, the Ming Dynasty) and considered checking sexual activities to protect the essence as an indispensable link in keeping fit and prolonging life. Long Zunxu, a physician of the Ming Dynasty, said: "Man has his body from the endowment of essence and blood from his parents. When he comes of age, however, he, with the development of sexual urge, drains the endowed essence in the river of love and the ocean of lust. He who has exhausted his essence young will die young; he who has exhausted his essence later will accordingly die later; and he who has exhausted his essence later still will not be able to enjoy the full life span. If one wishes to keep healthy and enjoy longevity, the only way is to totally refrain from sexual life so as to protect the essence. The life of vitality is governed by the essence as lamp depends on oil for light and fish relies on water for life. Lamp goes out at the exhaustion of oil and fish dies when water is dried up. But the foolish mistakes misery for pleasure and forgets life at the sight of women, He does not know that he dies with the exhaustion of the essence." (Admonitions for Men and Women) Therefore, they pointed out: "Those who are good at health preservation ... should keep away from women for a period of time and take good care of themselves so as to save the essence of life from damage."

(On Inquiring the Properties of Things, by Zhu Zhengheng, the Yuan Dynasty)

 

The key to checking sexual activities lies in keeping the mind clear from avarice and wild fancy. Our forefathers held that "at the sight of pretty women the sexual desire is aroused." "The rising of sexual desire leads to the birth of ministerial fire, resulting in the spontaneous emission: as ministerial fire is stirred up, the essence releases even without sexual intercourse.: (Admonitions for Men and Women, by Long Zunxu, the Ming Dynasty) To this end, care must be taken to foster ethics and values-"to look at and listen to nothing that goes against etiquette" as well as "to stay away from the obscene so as to maintain the mind calm," acquire a correct outlook in sexual life and genuinely manage to achieve the ideal state of thought that "whatever obscene scenes cannot attract one's eyesight or perturb one's mind;" only thus can the goal of checking sexual activities to protect the essence and prolong life be attained. Long Zunxu said: "Those who are good at health preservation give first priority to getting rid of carnal desires." (Admonitions for Men and Women)

 

(A note here: The previous paragraph could be interpreted as supporting "mortification of the flesh" ala certain religious orders. This is mostly due to poor word choice in translation. It is trying to say that the key to stabilizing one's sexual desires is in adjusting away from a mindset that promotes sexual objectification. As an example: There is nothing inherently erotic about simple nudity, yet a mind accustomed to thinking in patterns of sexual objectification will find it such, whether they want to or not. Repressing the eroticism ("mortification of the flesh") is not desired or effective here, rather the goal is to change the thought patterns away from the objectification that forces it, allowing one to recognize the person rather than simply their flesh. -mbanu)

 

Checking sexual activities to preserve the essence should be started from adolescence; "beginning to conserve one's health at old age is just like starting to save after becoming impoverished, when even the utmost frugality would be of no help." (Tuian's Informal Essays, by Li Jing, the Qing Dynasty)

 

Adolescence is just the time for youths to grow and develop. Their kidney-qi is becoming sufficient but their muscles and bones are not yet strong enough, so "the most important thing is to prevent them from experiencing sexual activities so early as to exhaust their natural essence. (Lenglu's Medical Talks, by Lu Yitian, the Qing Dynasty) "Activating the reproductive essence by having sexual intercourse with a woman when it is not so full to drain brings on defect of the body, resulting in indescribable diseases some day." "Starting sexual activities too early for men damages their reproductive essence and kidney-qi while beginning sexual activities too early for women injures their blood and essence." (Longevity and Life Preservation, by Gong Tingxian, the Ming Dynasty) It can be seen clinically that there are quite a number of men who become prematurely senile or even are bedridden with lingering diseases and die young because of loss of the kidney-essence resulted from marrying too early and having children too early and overindulgence in sexual pleasure. Therefore, the ancients energetically advocated late marriage, suggesting that "men marry at the age of thirty while women marry at the age of twenty." They particularly emphasized that "young men should keep away from women as their qi and blood are not substantially abundant." (Confucius's Family Teachings) Middle-aged men are harassed by all things and are weakening in the kidney-qi; they must not capitalize on their strong constitution for overindulgence in sexual pleasure. The aged who are weakening in the essence should all the more "hurry away from sexual activities and refrain from carnal desires," (Treatise on Refraining Sexual Intercourse) to postpone senility and die a natural death.

 

Adcording [sic] to An Unofficial History of the Three Dynasties, a man named Bao Hui at the time, though eighty-eight years old, was still "energetic" and "could walk without any difficulty."

When asked about the method of keeping fit, he replied: "I've got a kind of bolus. It is a secret recipe which is not to be passed on to others."

The inquirer asked what it was. With a smile, Bao Hui answered: "I've had 'sleeping-alone-boluses' for fifty years." All the audience burst into laughter.

 

2) Taboos on Sexual Activites

 

According to the theory of health preservation in TCM, to avoid sexual strain, special care must be taken to exercise the taboos on sexual activities in addition to checking sexual activities. Our forefathers have accumulated valuable experience on this. To make a comprehensive study, they are presented as follows:

 

First, when being overfed or extremely hungry. When in hunger, man suffers from insufficiency of the essence and qi in the zang- and fu organs, and thus it is forbidden to have sexual intercourse, which would cause further loss of the kidney-essence. When man has eaten his full, qi and blood would gather in the stomach and intestines; sexual intercourse would impede the digestion and absorption of the spleen and stomach, impairing the production of qi and blood. That is why Gong Tingxian of the Ming Dynasty said in Longevity and Life preservation: "Having sexual intercourse on a full stomach injures qi and blood."

 

Second, when it is extremely hot or cold. In summer, when it is sweltering hot, the yang-qi is most exuberant. While in winter, when it is freezing cold, the yin-qi is most excessive. Intemperance of sexual life will all the more consume the kidney-yin and the kidney-yang, resulting in deficiency of both yin and yang, so the worthy of the past taught: "When it is extremely hot or cold, man must not indulge in sexual life." (Widerange Records of Affairs)

 

Third, when emotions are in excess. When the five emotions are in excess or in disorder, there will occur disorder of qi and obstructed flow of blood; thus sexual intercourse is forbidden. A Book on Helping Cultivate the Essence, Qi and Vitality to Prolong Life said: "To have sexual intercourse with effort in anger leads to deficiency of essence and stagnation of qi, resulting in carbuncle and cellulitis. To have sexual intercourse in fear leads to relative deficiency of yin and yang, giving rise to cold limbs, spontaneous perspiration, night sweat or consumptive diseases from constant overstrain."

 

Fourth, those who are frail and deficient of qi. Those who are always thin and weak suffer from insufficiency of qi; sexual intercourse at this time will further decrease the insufficiency and thus lead to a premature decrepitude and short life. Gong Tingxian of the Ming Dynasty pointed out: "Men who are weak in physique should refrain from sex and marry [sic? marriage?] until they become strong." (Longevity and Life Preservation)

 

Fifth, when the body and the mind are tired. Protracted standing, walking or doing heavy work lead to fatigue of the limbs and trunk and flaccidity of the muscles and bone. At this time rest is badly needed to recuperate, so sexual intercourse is forbidden. Long Zunxu of the Ming Dynasty said:

"Scholars who work hard at books most need temperance in sexual activities.

Those who work with brains but do not exercise temperance in sexual life will suffer from fire aroused by sexual desire; the fire will consume the kidney-yin; the consumption of the kidney-yin will make the fire all the more flaming, which will damage the lung-metal, resulting in tuberculosis." (Admonitions for Men and Women)

 

Sixth, drinking wine to stir up sexual urge. Wine or spirits, which has a excitatory function, is likely to arouse sexual desire. But, as it is acrid in flavour, very hot in nature and poisonous, it is liable to consume the essence and injure yin. Therefore, drinking wine to add up pleasure and seeking satisfaction from indulgence in sexual intercourse are bound to result in exhaustion of the primordial qi of the kidney, entailing untold troubles. Sexual intercourse is particularly forbidden when drunk. Sun Simiao of the Tang Dynasty said: "Sexual intercourse is forbidden when drunk; to do otherwise will lead to, for the better, darkish complexion and cough and, for the worse, the failure of channels and vessels of the zang-organs or even loss of life." (Essential Prescriptions Worth a Thousand Gold for Emergencies)

 

Seventh, using tonics to invigorate yang. Taking tonics that invigorate the kidney-yang can satisfy momentary pleasure by enhancing sexual urge and increasing sexual power. But as they are dry-hot in nature, protracted use of large doses is bound to exhaust the yin-essence, ultimately resulting in deficiency of both yin and yang and premature senility. The aged who are weakening in energy and decreases in sexual desire are particularly forbiden to indulge themselves by invigorating yang with tonics, in order to observe the natural law.

Edited July 24, 2007 by mbanu

[iadnon]

7 is a magic number. It marks the end of a period. I also hold it for 6-7 days. After this period I started to get nervous... very seriously.

 

In yoga, it is said that inverted postures help the energy stored in the gonads to move towards the head... I tried it too, but in vain.

 

Anyway, when I practice MCO mixed with sexual energy, I have little orgasms in the back, and it seems that calms down my hunger... for a while...

[Ryan McCoole]

mbanu, excellent resource...I shall be returning to them in the future for reference I'd wager.

 

Yes I agree. 6-7 days is the max for me. After that my mind is so consumed with the urge that my practice swivels and sways. I am learning temperence as well...excellent point. Not to much, not to little.

 

It really IS like the 70%. We're not at optimal efficiency is we breathe in 100% lung capacity...that will hurt. But with 70% we can go further, faster.

[Pietro]

7 is a magic number. It marks the end of a period.

 

I fully agree. I always tend not to come more than 7 times in one day. I use to come eight times in one day (I was somehow influenced by Terry Pratchett), but then when I went to New York I spoke with Max (Smile, here), and he convinced me that it was very bad for my jing, so now I only come 7 times. I feel much better already.

[mantis]

reading through these posts reminds me of the serious error i committed in the beginning of semen retention. you become obsessed with trying not to ejaculate that you make your mind go haywire. in the taoist texts it says that you should and can ejaculate every now and then, for a man of 20-30 years of age i believe it's once every four days.

 

if you decide not to do it then it may be in vain as you can ejaculate during wet dreams which you may not remember so you actually may have ejaculated and not known about it! the taoist texts mention that when you ejaculate during a wet dream it is 100x more harming and the same goes for ejaculating in the winter.

 

my advice is to simply find your cycle. if when you ejaculate you feel refreshed, light, joyful and what not then that is the time frame you need to use. if you feel depressed, drained, fatigued, etc then you need to give yourself a longer period. i hope this will help!

[Trunk]

my advice is to simply find your cycle.

Not too much, not too little.

Bingo.

Print!

[三江源]

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Edited April 15, 2015 by 三江源

[Spectrum]

It's easier to keep the top side of the tank full.

[Wayfarer64]

This is pretty hard to judge over time and per person... In my own experience:

 

When I was 15-20 moderate sexual activity was 2 instead of 3 or more girls a day... But that was in the late 60's early 70's when we had very few sexually transmitted diseases compared to these days & all the girls I knew were on the pill -(and I looked much better too)...

 

Over time things have changed for me personally and in the times we live... there is a great and sensible fear of promescuity now that did not exist when I was younger. Also The whole jing retention thing should be taken seriously by those who are disposed to do so and have a deep spiritual yearning to acchieve what is offered by such practices...

 

so for each one of us we need to ascertain what is best at the time -not go by some formulaic process that may screw-up our well being...

[witch]

The key to checking sexual activities lies in keeping the mind clear from avarice and wild fancy. Our forefathers held that "at the sight of pretty women the sexual desire is aroused." "The rising of sexual desire leads to the birth of ministerial fire, resulting in the spontaneous emission: as ministerial fire is stirred up, the essence releases even without sexual intercourse.: (Admonitions for Men and Women, by Long Zunxu, the Ming Dynasty)

 

Long Zunxu can kiss my fat ass.

[beancurdturtle]

What do You consider moderate sexual activity?

Anything that doesn't include trapeze equipment and a safety net.